Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 237 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #7081 of 7173 Old 08-09-2014, 08:56 PM
Senior Member
 
ChadThunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM82 View Post
I'm also trying to save some $$$ by choosing the 60S60, which is about 800$ differance. How bad is the motion blur on the S60 and the lack of 1080p/24 support? I don't need 3D and it's going to my basement which is a really dark room.
You can get around the 24fps issue if you have an HTPC, just use madVR with smooth motion enabled, it sounds like interpolation but actually it displays as many real frames as possible and the intermediate frames are created using a frame blending technique instead of motion estimation, I think it looks really nice on plasmas in particular because with the way they redraw the screen many times it means they work in a perfect harmony when the frame rate matches the output refresh rate, and that is what madVR can deliver.

I think it's not right to say the S60 has blur, actually it has has very good motion but there is slightly longer phosphor trails and maybe its a little easier see rainbows and color banding at closer inspection, it's really not a big deal unless you are sensitive to those particular things, also I haven't read any complains about how the S60 handles 50hz signals but from experience Panasonic plasmas work better at 60hz so that is why I mentioned about that
ChadThunder is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #7082 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 06:28 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thank you all for your help

I just saw the Rtings review on the S60 and they are kind of doing a big deal out of the motion blur and the lack of 1080p/24 support. Personaly, I have not seen it at the store, but again at home it's a differant story.
Ian, are you watching lots of action/motion movies? are the phospher trails noticuble?
Chad, if i hook my laptop to my TV will it do the same job?
Thanks again!
OM82 is offline  
post #7083 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 09:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM82 View Post
I just saw the Rtings review on the S60 and they are kind of doing a big deal out of the motion blur and the lack of 1080p/24 support. Personaly, I have not seen it at the store, but again at home it's a differant story.
Ian, are you watching lots of action/motion movies? are the phospher trails noticuble?

Thanks again!
Most of these reviews, including the ones from David Katzmaier, of whom I highly respect, are too critical when it comes to how effectively these sets support 24p content. That being said,
are you kidding, I love action movies! Actually more then half the films I watch have action scenes. I also watch plenty of Netflix Super HD 24p content. And no, I never notice phosphor trails on either of my Plasmas. If it were an issue for me, I wouldn't have bought another one.

Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #7084 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 10:05 AM
Member
 
traps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 18
I bought a LG PB6650 60 inch tv and then found a P50S60 for $499 at Sears Outlet new in box. I returned my LG and got the S60. Less screen area but much better picture so all in all no regrets. If you are interested I suggest checking Sears Outlet they still have some New in box Panasonic Plasmas (varies from area to area).
mphfrom77 likes this.
traps is offline  
post #7085 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 11:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 328
Question New in the box

Quote:
Originally Posted by traps View Post
I bought a LG PB6650 60 inch tv and then found a P50S60 for $499 at Sears Outlet new in box. I returned my LG and got the S60. Less screen area but much better picture so all in all no regrets. If you are interested I suggest checking Sears Outlet they still have some New in box Panasonic Plasmas (varies from area to area).


New in the box? Normally they are new floor models that were never used, or returns, and go for the full retail value ($699.00 or higher). $499.00 is usually an outlet reconditioned price.

Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #7086 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 12:21 PM
Member
 
traps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post


New in the box? Normally they are new floor models that were never used, or returns, and go for the full retail value ($699.00 or higher). $499.00 is usually an outlet reconditioned price.

Ian
Yep $499 here's proof lol.



I didn't feel like driving 50~ miles one way to pick it up so I paid $79 for delivery. Getting it tomorrow.
ChadThunder likes this.
traps is offline  
post #7087 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 01:12 PM
Senior Member
 
ChadThunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM82 View Post
Chad, if i hook my laptop to my TV will it do the same job?
Thanks again!
How old is the laptop? I hope it does not have Intel graphics

The easy way of getting madVR(renderer) and MPC-HC(player) combo working is from installing the famous "Kawaii codec pack" but for that you will need Windows Vista or newer, XP requires a manual install which is a little bit more work but if you run into trouble with any settings you can PM me
ChadThunder is offline  
post #7088 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 03:26 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Sears is just few continents away from me

Ian, thank you for the answer. you are helping me to make a decision!
Chad, my laptop is a year old, core i7, intel graphic card.
My big question is: by your own experiance, does the ST60 worth 700$ more? and is it true that the s60 flickers less, I can't find those sets together nowhere.
OM82 is offline  
post #7089 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 03:34 PM
Member
 
dmtaub's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 19
The ST60 offers 3d, full smart, another HDMI, active louver filter, 2500ffd display, slightly better blacks. If it was my main tv, I would spend the extra 700. If it is just a bedroom or spare room, then the s60 is probably perfect.
dmtaub is online now  
post #7090 of 7173 Old 08-10-2014, 03:40 PM
Member
 
traps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmtaub View Post
The ST60 offers 3d, full smart, another HDMI, active louver filter, 2500ffd display, slightly better blacks. If it was my main tv, I would spend the extra 700. If it is just a bedroom or spare room, then the s60 is probably perfect.
It's not worth $700 more lol. The biggest difference is that ST60 is better in bright rooms in dark rooms they are nearly identical. The 3d isn't a big deal for most. If it was $70 difference then it would be ok but $700???? That's like another tv or two. If bright room performance is an issue I'd get a F8500 Samsung.
traps is offline  
post #7091 of 7173 Old 08-11-2014, 01:24 AM
Senior Member
 
ChadThunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM82 View Post
Chad, my laptop is a year old, core i7, intel graphic card.
haha well I am sure intel got alot better in the last five years since I used them personally I run very conservative settings with madvr and my htpc has only a 9600gt graphics processor, any core i7 laptop should do fine


Quote:
Originally Posted by OM82 View Post
My big question is: by your own experiance, does the ST60 worth 700$ more? and is it true that the s60 flickers less, I can't find those sets together nowhere.
I would say ST60 is worth it if you live in 50hz country but at the same time S60 does have less noticable flicker, sorry if that made your decision more confusing
ChadThunder is offline  
post #7092 of 7173 Old 08-11-2014, 05:23 AM
Member
 
jasondjulian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 71
I actually run my S60 in 48hz mode on some movies, and really, unless there is really high ABL (bright scenes), after about 15 minutes or so your brain smooths things out and the flicker (that is advertised as being close to original film in appearance) becomes SIGNIFICANTLY less noticeable.

That being said, nothing wrong with the 60hz setting either. I dont notice any judder using that setting. The motion is certainly not as bad as most LCDs or other plasmas (when they arent using goofy frame interpolation settings).

In a light controlled room, the S60 is an excellent plasma. ST60 is indeed better, but only at some things and sometimes not by a lot.

Panasonic TC-P55S60
Sony S5100 BD-Player
RCA 5 disc DVD HTIB for 5.1 Surround
jasondjulian is offline  
post #7093 of 7173 Old 08-11-2014, 12:36 PM
Senior Member
 
ToonMasterTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 60
The ST60, while it is a phenomenal TV, isn't worth the extra $700 at the same screen size in my opinion unless you absolutely want 3D, which the S60 does not offer. The ST60 also has the louvre filter to diminish reflections on the screen, but again, for $700 more!? And yes, it has more lines of resolution, a different panel, etc. but unless you have the money to burn, I would get the S60 and spend the extra cash on a good streaming box and some audio equipment...or save your money.

Like Ian and Jason, I watch a lot of content on my S64 (S60 with the louvre filter of the ST60), and I don't notice phosphor trailers, motion blur, etc. that has been mentioned in some reviews. The S60 has lower input lag than the ST60 if that matters to you (i.e. if you're a gamer). I watch movies in 60 Hz mode and they look great. Sure, you get some judder during pans, but it looks "normal" to me. The ST60's 96 Hz mode supposedly smooths that out without making it look "too smooth" according to CNET. But I wouldn't pay $700 for that, or 3D. Sure, if you're getting a larger screen, like a 64" ST60 vs a 55" S60 then I would say, go ST60 if you can because screen size does matter.
ToonMasterTim is offline  
post #7094 of 7173 Old 08-11-2014, 12:41 PM
Member
 
dmtaub's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmtaub View Post
The ST60 offers 3d, full smart, another HDMI, active louver filter, 2500ffd display, slightly better blacks. If it was my main tv, I would spend the extra 700. If it is just a bedroom or spare room, then the s60 is probably perfect.
I have to amend my response. I thought the S60 was a 50 inch and the ST60 was a 60 inch. If they are the same size, I agree with everyone else. Go with the S60. It is a phenomenal set!
dmtaub is online now  
post #7095 of 7173 Old 08-11-2014, 01:48 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Sounds like a winner

Wow guys, thank you so much for you help!
It seems like its gonna be 60S60. Same price as the 50st60 and sounds like a much better value. I was offered a 60st60 floor model for 400$ more. what do you think? other issues i should know about before i make the purches?
By the way, how is it compering to the Sony W829 LED? I know it's a differant animal, but I've heard it's really good.
OM82 is offline  
post #7096 of 7173 Old 08-11-2014, 02:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RWetmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 3,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM82 View Post
Wow guys, thank you so much for you help!
It seems like its gonna be 60S60. Same price as the 50st60 and sounds like a much better value. I was offered a 60st60 floor model for 400$ more. what do you think? other issues i should know about before i make the purches?.

If you can afford extra $700 for the ST60, I would definitely get that if you can get it new. I would not buy a floor model ST60 if you can get a new S60.
ToonMasterTim likes this.
RWetmore is offline  
post #7097 of 7173 Old 08-11-2014, 02:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RWetmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brick, New Jersey
Posts: 3,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Unlike some here, I do notice the difference between the S60 and ST60 when it comes to motion. While the S60 is very good, the 2500 FFD of ST60 yields tighter and more crisp motion. The difference is relatively small, but I do see it. I'd say though that the motion of the S60 is 90% as good as the ST60.
RWetmore is offline  
post #7098 of 7173 Old 08-12-2014, 07:22 AM
Senior Member
 
ToonMasterTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Ultimately, you need to make the call, but I would definitely go for a 60" over a 50" set if you have the space for the larger TV. I consider the improvements in the ST60 small enough that I wouldn't personally be able to justify the price difference, but that's just me. Heck, I debated getting the 60" ST60 or the 65" S64 a year ago when the ST60 was just over $200 more and I settled on the S64, partly because Sam's also offered a 90-day return policy and I got an extra year warranty through Sam's for free on top of the manufacturer's warranty.

If you're getting a new S60 versus a used ST60, well, that makes the decision easier, unless the used ST60 for $400 more has fewer than say 3000 hours or so on it. Go into the menus and check the hours on it if the set is turned on in the store. If not, see if they will let you, or make sure they have a generous return policy, then check it out at home. But moving a 60" TV around isn't easy, so it will be a hassle. Then you risk someone else purchasing the S60 in the meantime. So honestly, unless the 3D is important to you, I would go with the S60 as long as you can control lighting and reflections because there is no anti-glare filter on it, which would be my other concern.

As for the Sony LED, if you need a bright TV, then LED is great for daytime viewing. You should ask questions about it in the LCD forums rather than here though. Good luck with your decision.
ToonMasterTim is offline  
post #7099 of 7173 Old 08-12-2014, 06:58 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Could anyone please uplaod some picture of their S60 in a dark room? I really wish to see its black level!
OM82 is offline  
post #7100 of 7173 Old 08-12-2014, 09:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM82 View Post
Could anyone please uplaod some picture of their S60 in a dark room? I really wish to see its black level!
If you search this thread, you will be able to find members who took actual BL measurements from their set. Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread

Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others


Last edited by mailiang; 08-12-2014 at 10:04 PM.
mailiang is offline  
post #7101 of 7173 Old 08-13-2014, 04:34 AM
Member
 
jasondjulian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Check out my thread here... should give a good idea.

Budget Bias light results, why isn't this standard equipment!?

Panasonic TC-P55S60
Sony S5100 BD-Player
RCA 5 disc DVD HTIB for 5.1 Surround
jasondjulian is offline  
post #7102 of 7173 Old 08-13-2014, 07:51 AM
Senior Member
 
ToonMasterTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 60
I like having a bias light, too. Perhaps the forums upgrade this year broke the images, but a lot of owners were posting images of their sets, which is how I came across the bias light idea. Having one is a nice idea. I don't use mine for every movie night, but it creates a nice ambient light and deepens perceived contrast. I went with a 6500K LED rope light on Amazon, similar to this one, http://www.amazon.com/White-Strip-li...led+rope+light And as you can see, they aren't expensive. Some hardware stores may have them, but I found that my local Menard's was expensive for similar options. In fact, I initially started off with a 12" long LED light made for lighting areas under cabinets in the kitchen. It had some sticky adhesive and I just stuck it to the middle of the back of the TV. Worked well, but I wanted more light. The LED rope lights can be cut to size and they often have a 3M or other sticky adhesive on the back. For mine, I just used Scotch tape since the TV is wall mounted and I wasn't sure if I'd like it. I love it, but I haven't bothered to remove the tape since it looks great as it is now. If I think of it, I'll take some pictures tonight and post them in the forums.
ToonMasterTim is offline  
post #7103 of 7173 Old 08-13-2014, 08:27 AM
Member
 
jasondjulian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 71
That'd be cool, Tim. I'd love to see what your bias light set up looks like. Mine is still the wrong color temp, I just haven't gotten around to ordering a different bulb yet. Still looks tons better.

Panasonic TC-P55S60
Sony S5100 BD-Player
RCA 5 disc DVD HTIB for 5.1 Surround
jasondjulian is offline  
post #7104 of 7173 Old 08-13-2014, 09:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 328
GE makes a 3 way soft white bulb that starts at 15 watts. For casual viewing, I use that with my lamp which is off to the side and a couple of feet in front of my set. Fortunately, there's very little glare. When watching a film, I use the recessed ceiling lights which are on a dimmer switch. The two front lights are behind the set. I find it helps to simulate the movie theater experience.

Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #7105 of 7173 Old 08-13-2014, 05:49 PM
Senior Member
 
brettwf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL (Monorovia area)
Posts: 363
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
When watching a film, I use the recessed ceiling lights which are on a dimmer switch. The two front lights are behind the set. I find it helps to simulate the movie theater experience.

Ian
Be careful if you upgrade to dimmable LED lights. I found one heavily discounted at a Bargain Hunt store and it does not dim as low as the incandesents. So, I have this over the table in the back corner so that I can see my pizza better when we have pizza and a movie night. Now, if only Bargain Hunt would have a certain line of Panasonic plasma TVs on the shelves, then I would be in 7th heaven!

brettwf
brettwf is offline  
post #7106 of 7173 Old 08-13-2014, 06:58 PM
Member
 
traps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Is this a normal occurrence on these sets? One column has yellow pixels and one column has purple pixels. Pictures are in this thread.

Panasonic S64 at Costco
traps is offline  
post #7107 of 7173 Old 08-14-2014, 04:32 AM
Member
 
jasondjulian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 71
I've never heard of or seen that issue before.. certainly dont have it on my 55s60.

Panasonic TC-P55S60
Sony S5100 BD-Player
RCA 5 disc DVD HTIB for 5.1 Surround
jasondjulian is offline  
post #7108 of 7173 Old 08-14-2014, 05:59 AM
Senior Member
 
ToonMasterTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 60
I took some pictures of my bias light setup for those interested. It's an inexpensive 6500k LED rope light I bought from Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1, which did not come with the power adapter, but luckily I actually had one from some other equipment that worked. Pictures were taken with my iPhone 4S, which explains the grainy, low quality, but you hopefully get the idea.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-08-14 05.22.09.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	149.3 KB
ID:	211457   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-08-14 05.22.06.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	167.1 KB
ID:	211465   Click image for larger version

Name:	2014-08-14 05.18.16.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	136.9 KB
ID:	211473  
ChadThunder likes this.
ToonMasterTim is offline  
post #7109 of 7173 Old 08-14-2014, 07:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 6,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasondjulian View Post
I've never heard of or seen that issue before.
Ditto.


Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #7110 of 7173 Old 08-14-2014, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
"Don't PM Me Bro"
 
RandyWalters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: El Segundo, Calif
Posts: 17,491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by traps View Post
Yep $499 here's proof lol.....I didn't feel like driving 50~ miles one way to pick it up so I paid $79 for delivery. Getting it tomorrow.
There have been other people here who bought "New In Box" Panasonics from Sears Outlet only to discover they weren't really new and were either returns or display units with hundred of hours on them.

Did you check the TV's Hours when you first got it? Was it zero?



.

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR333, URC R40 Remote.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Gallery -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RandyWalters is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Panasonic Tc P65s60 65 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic 60 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P60s60 , Panasonic Tc P55s60 55 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Tc P50s60 50 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic 42 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P42s60
Gear in this thread - P42s60 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off