Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 249 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #7441 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 01:36 AM
KOF
AVS Special Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
Thanks for the detailed reply. I liked the APL testing, especially REmake since im a huge old school RE fan and waiting to play remastered on a worthy display. Wonder what RE 5 would have with the bright sun light of Africa...

So the st60's input lag is bad enough in your opinion to just eliminate as a contender even for casual gaming? Some owners say its unnoticable, but i doubt that especially for me. As far as the EC9300, now im hearing it has only 34ms input lag as opposed to 50ms. Not bad if true. The PB2U sounds interesting...is that a commercial model?

Anyway, heres my current updated situation...

1.) Still have the local 50s60 available for $400 with 3500 hours.

2.) just found a Nib 50st60 for $875. But seems you prefer the s60 and st/gt50 over it because of bad input lag?

3.) 50u50 locally for only $225. Not sure how many hours. This one seems almost too good to pass up for the price. My mom has owned one for 3 years now so i have lots of experince with it. Low lag (in 30s i think) and good blacks. Actually measured lower than the s60 on cnet. It is pretty dim like most though. Any experience with the U series?

4.) save up for the EC9300 and call it a day. This is the most expensive option, but if what you said is true about this model being the last 1080P OLED made, it appeals to me way more. Then it will be the last affordable option for another 2-3 years at least with 4k models costing thousands more.

So, what do you think? Anyone else is more than welcome to chime in with their opinion.

PS...out of curiosity, how does an XBR960 Crt stack up against my options, mostly in terms of black levels. I know the obvious Crt advantages of motion, input lag ect. Thanks!
Ask and you shall receive.

Resident Evil 5 (In the very beginning) = 50%

Yes, RE5 does require hefty amount of ABL, but for some reason, it was very playable on my S60. Still, it would be good to get a plasma that gets 100~120 cd/m2 on 50% APL. The other RE games were spectacular on my S60 though. RE4 in particular was great. I've probably played RE4 more than 10 times and I still went for another run just because it looked so good on my plasma. REMake though, it's probably the best looking RE for my S60, and I've played it tons on my CRTs on Gamecube and Wii already. CRTs and LCDs simply don't compare against plasmas for REs in general.

1) My S64 is over 3000 hours too and it still looks as good as new. I'm sill mesmerized with its black level. If you're looking to buy the S60, that ain't a bad deal. I've been very impressed with longetivity with Panasonic plasmas. Not even a single issue despite being heavily abused with 300 hours of non-stop PS2 games marathon (with 4:3 borders and all that) and all it took from me was running slides for an hour to make the IR go away completely. DO NOT let IR/burn in myth deter you from owning a plasma. It's much more stress-free than dealing with all those uniformity problems with LCDs and OLEDs.

2) Trust me. I've tried so hard to justify myself into buying the ST60. Better black level than the S60, brighter than the S60, better motion performance than the S60 (In fact, the best motion performance among every plasmas released in 2013~2014) what is there I wouldn't like about the ST60? That's why it's sad I won't be able to own this excellent plasma just because of input lag. My first plasma was an LG plasma, and I've measured its input lag as 56ms, and I tried my best to get used to its high input lag, I couldn't. Gears of War was too unresponsive. As the ST60 has even worse input lag, it is simply not a gamer's plasma.

3) Both U50/UT50 are also a good plasma, provided you only play low APL games. Great input lag/black level, but harsh ABL ruins its overall performance that's why I did not put them in my recommendation. But still, damn, that's a great price.

4) Yes, I also entertained the idea about buying the EC9300 as that would be the last 1080p OLED LG will be producing, but after learning the Xbox One might be getting a 10bit + HDR update, I gave up. If I will be paying much for an OLED, might as well get one with 10bit + HDR support. Still, I do know the EC9300 will end up as $1500 at the end of its run, so that's unfortunate. I will still toy about buying one used.

With plasmas (good ones I mean), we don't usually worry about black level and motion performance as that's easily attainable with plasmas. What's hard to get with plasmas is good ABL. A plasma with a good ABL performance makes for a much more versatile gaming display, and that's why I really loved the Samsung F8500 before the power supply downgrade.

I will give you some ABL numbers for notable plasmas. (and OLEDs just so you know where they stand against plasmas)

Samsung S9C (OLED)

50% = 373 cd/m2
100% = 150 cd/m2


LG EA9800 (OLED)

50% = 272 cd/m2
100% = 82 cd/m2


Samsung F8500

50% = 197 cd/m2 (early one)


Kuro 9.5G (pre ABL-tweak)

10% = 200 cd/m2
20% = 185 cd/m2
30% = 175 cd/m2
40% = 160 cd/m2
50% = 125 cd/m2
60% = 100 cd/m2
70% = 80 cd/m2
80% = 60 cd/m2
90% = 55 cd/m2
100% = 50 cd/m2

(post ABL-tweak)

10% = 230 cd/m2
20% = 220 cd/m2
30% = 200 cd/m2
40% = 190 cd/m2
50% = 180 cd/m2
60% = 170 cd/m2
70% = 155 cd/m2
80% = 125 cd/m2
90% = 100 cd/m2
100% = 90 cd/m2

LG EC9300 (OLED)

(early ones)
50% = 121 cd/m2
100% = 84 cd/m2

(later ones)
100% = 93 cd/m2


Samsung E8000

20% = 166 cd/m2
50% = 76 cd/m2


Samsung F5500

20% = 131 cd/m2
50% = 93 cd/m2


Samsung F4500

50% = 92 cd/m2


Samsun F5300

50% = 87 cd/m2


Panasonic VT60

50% = 82 cd/m2


Panasonic ZT60

50% = 68 cd/m2


Panasonic GT50

20% = 114 cd/m2


Panasonic VT50

20% = 102 cd/m2


Panasonic ST30

20% = 101 cd/m2


Panasonic S60

20% = 91 cd/m2
50% = 74 cd/m2


Panasonic U50

20% = 54 cd/m2


These are pasted from various review sites, so of course accuracy is not guaranteed, but seeing as so few reviews have ABL measurements, these were the best I could find. Among the list, you can clearly see the Kuro reigning supreme even at stock ABL. (It practically beats every consumer Panasonic plasmas released in US in last 3 years, and every Samsung plasmas except for the F8500 and the E8000 with firmware upgrade) And the best thing about those Kuros are, you get to have some flexibility when shopping around. If you get the 8G, you will get 20ms of input lag. If you get the 9G, the input lag will be 30ms, but you will get vastly superior black level in return. Either way, get used to the Kuro, and when you finally gather confidence, then you can get yourself the ControlCAL and do the ABL tweak on your Kuro to finally conquer APL heavy games like GTA5 and Bioshock Infinite to make them as good as LCDs in brightness department. I know you may be uncomfortable buying a plasma that was already discontinued 7 years ago, but today's plasmas, despite advances in lumen efficiency over the Kuro, are marred with energy consumption restriction, thin styling that trades power supply efficiency for sexy design. (lol, like I care) That's why Panasonic's professional models were always preferable over their consumer counterpart for gaming. Their professional models are at least an inch thicker, so that allows for beefy power supply to greatly help with ABLs, less dithering, better motion performance, heck even 120hz/144hz native input is possible when consumer models were stuck with 60hz only. Oh, and they definitely have vastly superior input lag too as they definitely don't have any Smart TV/various picture enhancement crap to begin with. Thicker panels also don't have to work as hard as thin plasmas to do the same thing, so panel longetivity may be improved too. That was the prime reason why the Samsung F8500 has fallen from its grace. Samsung did make a heck of a great power supply, but it was also a thin plasma, and Samsung must've realized later their inefficient power supply design designed to support a thin plasma can't sustain such ABL performance (in both brightness and black level) hence the downgrade.

I wouldn't buy the XBR960 or any CRTs for today's games, and I'm saying this as an owner of the Sony BVM, the greatest Trinitron CRT display Sony has ever created. The BVMs and the Wegas do have ample amount of brightness which do offer much more brightness than the plasmas. Problem is, games are getting more and more realistic. Think back in the day when all we had were Super Mario 64 and Tomb Raider. Very stylized, but not realistic. Then with games like Halo and Devil May Cry, we finally started getting some decent shadow and lighting, and last gen, there were so many games like COD, Gears of War, God of War, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed that tried to mimic movies and were very realistic in presentation. Then starting from this gen, we're getting even better shadow/lighting/bump mapping/particle effects. (Infamous Second Son, Call of Duty : Advanced Warfare, The Order etc.)

I've played tons of games on my Panasonic S60 ranging from NES to XBO/PS4, and my opinion is, games have been decreasing in APL requirement with generation. Say for PS2 games, I still prefer my Sony BVM over my plasmas because of high APL requirement, but from XB360/PS3 generation, my plasmas pull way ahead, and now from this generation, there are far more games I prefer my Panasonic S60 over the Sony LCD I used to own. This is because Panasonic plasmas have realistic, mature presentation. That's why they're loved by many movie buffs here. They're not good with stylish or kiddy games, and that's a bit unfortunate as I also love stylized kiddy games like Sonic, Nintendo games, and other Japanese games like Persona. But since vast majority of games nowadays are Western games with realistic presentation, those are the games Panasonic plasmas really like. A bit ironic that a Japanese made TV doesn't work so well with Japanese games, but prefers western games instead.

And in order to bring the best in those western games which go for a realistic tone, you absolutely need ANSI contrast ratio the most. on/off contrast ratio beasts like the CRTs and FALDs don't work too well. I've also seen the Samsung JS9500 struggle on indoor scenes. By having great ANSI contrast ratio, it will bring out the best in shadow, lighting, bump mapping, and particles. And to sweeten things out further, shadow/lighting/bump mapping/particles/ or any kind of transparencies are very low in APL. Having tons of them in games will actually decrease average APL requirement, that's why I truly enjoyed COD:AW as its advanced shadows/lighting/particles did a lot to decrease APL requirement. Sure, my Panasonic S60 does struggle with GTA5 and Bioshock Infinite, but they're last gen games too. As of now, I've not seen a true current-gen game that brings my S60 into knee. Maybe AC:Unity will do it, but I haven't played it yet.

So no, a CRT will not be ideal for today's realistic games with its paltry 300:1 of ANSI contrast ratio, but it will still be functional with stylized games. I'm also thinking about buying the XBR960/XS955 and using it for high APL games, but I'm hoping the ABL-tweaked Kuro won't even make such possiblity a reality. Of course, for competitive multiplayer games and shmups, you can't beat a CRT with its zero input lag and excellent motion performance. BTW, seeing as I've used Sony CRTs, Sony LCD, and plasmas, I consider plasmas achieving about 2/3 of what my CRTs can do in terms of motion performance. The LCDs are about 1/3.

So, if I were you, I would either choose from a Kuro or the GT50. I would also go with one of the commercial models like PF30, but these ones seem evasive. If availability is a problem for all three options, then start with the S60 first, see what you like about this one and what you don't and plan your future upgrade accordingly. Whatever your choice, I'd like to hear your opinion in near future.
KOF is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #7442 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 05:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,811
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 541 Post(s)
Liked: 685
Certainly a valid point but to my knowledge there is no such control, perhaps they use some kind of software.
chunon is online now  
post #7443 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 08:35 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post
Ask and you shall receive.

Resident Evil 5 (In the very beginning) = 50%

Yes, RE5 does require hefty amount of ABL, but for some reason, it was very playable on my S60. Still, it would be good to get a plasma that gets 100~120 cd/m2 on 50% APL. The other RE games were spectacular on my S60 though. RE4 in particular was great. I've probably played RE4 more than 10 times and I still went for another run just because it looked so good on my plasma. REMake though, it's probably the best looking RE for my S60, and I've played it tons on my CRTs on Gamecube and Wii already. CRTs and LCDs simply don't compare against plasmas for REs in general.

1) My S64 is over 3000 hours too and it still looks as good as new. I'm sill mesmerized with its black level. If you're looking to buy the S60, that ain't a bad deal. I've been very impressed with longetivity with Panasonic plasmas. Not even a single issue despite being heavily abused with 300 hours of non-stop PS2 games marathon (with 4:3 borders and all that) and all it took from me was running slides for an hour to make the IR go away completely. DO NOT let IR/burn in myth deter you from owning a plasma. It's much more stress-free than dealing with all those uniformity problems with LCDs and OLEDs.

2) Trust me. I've tried so hard to justify myself into buying the ST60. Better black level than the S60, brighter than the S60, better motion performance than the S60 (In fact, the best motion performance among every plasmas released in 2013~2014) what is there I wouldn't like about the ST60? That's why it's sad I won't be able to own this excellent plasma just because of input lag. My first plasma was an LG plasma, and I've measured its input lag as 56ms, and I tried my best to get used to its high input lag, I couldn't. Gears of War was too unresponsive. As the ST60 has even worse input lag, it is simply not a gamer's plasma.

3) Both U50/UT50 are also a good plasma, provided you only play low APL games. Great input lag/black level, but harsh ABL ruins its overall performance that's why I did not put them in my recommendation. But still, damn, that's a great price.

4) Yes, I also entertained the idea about buying the EC9300 as that would be the last 1080p OLED LG will be producing, but after learning the Xbox One might be getting a 10bit + HDR update, I gave up. If I will be paying much for an OLED, might as well get one with 10bit + HDR support. Still, I do know the EC9300 will end up as $1500 at the end of its run, so that's unfortunate. I will still toy about buying one used.

With plasmas (good ones I mean), we don't usually worry about black level and motion performance as that's easily attainable with plasmas. What's hard to get with plasmas is good ABL. A plasma with a good ABL performance makes for a much more versatile gaming display, and that's why I really loved the Samsung F8500 before the power supply downgrade.

I will give you some ABL numbers for notable plasmas. (and OLEDs just so you know where they stand against plasmas)

Samsung S9C (OLED)

50% = 373 cd/m2
100% = 150 cd/m2


LG EA9800 (OLED)

50% = 272 cd/m2
100% = 82 cd/m2


Samsung F8500

50% = 197 cd/m2 (early one)


Kuro 9.5G (pre ABL-tweak)

10% = 200 cd/m2
20% = 185 cd/m2
30% = 175 cd/m2
40% = 160 cd/m2
50% = 125 cd/m2
60% = 100 cd/m2
70% = 80 cd/m2
80% = 60 cd/m2
90% = 55 cd/m2
100% = 50 cd/m2

(post ABL-tweak)

10% = 230 cd/m2
20% = 220 cd/m2
30% = 200 cd/m2
40% = 190 cd/m2
50% = 180 cd/m2
60% = 170 cd/m2
70% = 155 cd/m2
80% = 125 cd/m2
90% = 100 cd/m2
100% = 90 cd/m2

LG EC9300 (OLED)

(early ones)
50% = 121 cd/m2
100% = 84 cd/m2

(later ones)
100% = 93 cd/m2


Samsung E8000

20% = 166 cd/m2
50% = 76 cd/m2


Samsung F5500

20% = 131 cd/m2
50% = 93 cd/m2


Samsung F4500

50% = 92 cd/m2


Samsun F5300

50% = 87 cd/m2


Panasonic VT60

50% = 82 cd/m2


Panasonic ZT60

50% = 68 cd/m2


Panasonic GT50

20% = 114 cd/m2


Panasonic VT50

20% = 102 cd/m2


Panasonic ST30

20% = 101 cd/m2


Panasonic S60

20% = 91 cd/m2
50% = 74 cd/m2


Panasonic U50

20% = 54 cd/m2


These are pasted from various review sites, so of course accuracy is not guaranteed, but seeing as so few reviews have ABL measurements, these were the best I could find. Among the list, you can clearly see the Kuro reigning supreme even at stock ABL. (It practically beats every consumer Panasonic plasmas released in US in last 3 years, and every Samsung plasmas except for the F8500 and the E8000 with firmware upgrade) And the best thing about those Kuros are, you get to have some flexibility when shopping around. If you get the 8G, you will get 20ms of input lag. If you get the 9G, the input lag will be 30ms, but you will get vastly superior black level in return. Either way, get used to the Kuro, and when you finally gather confidence, then you can get yourself the ControlCAL and do the ABL tweak on your Kuro to finally conquer APL heavy games like GTA5 and Bioshock Infinite to make them as good as LCDs in brightness department. I know you may be uncomfortable buying a plasma that was already discontinued 7 years ago, but today's plasmas, despite advances in lumen efficiency over the Kuro, are marred with energy consumption restriction, thin styling that trades power supply efficiency for sexy design. (lol, like I care) That's why Panasonic's professional models were always preferable over their consumer counterpart for gaming. Their professional models are at least an inch thicker, so that allows for beefy power supply to greatly help with ABLs, less dithering, better motion performance, heck even 120hz/144hz native input is possible when consumer models were stuck with 60hz only. Oh, and they definitely have vastly superior input lag too as they definitely don't have any Smart TV/various picture enhancement crap to begin with. Thicker panels also don't have to work as hard as thin plasmas to do the same thing, so panel longetivity may be improved too. That was the prime reason why the Samsung F8500 has fallen from its grace. Samsung did make a heck of a great power supply, but it was also a thin plasma, and Samsung must've realized later their inefficient power supply design designed to support a thin plasma can't sustain such ABL performance (in both brightness and black level) hence the downgrade.

I wouldn't buy the XBR960 or any CRTs for today's games, and I'm saying this as an owner of the Sony BVM, the greatest Trinitron CRT display Sony has ever created. The BVMs and the Wegas do have ample amount of brightness which do offer much more brightness than the plasmas. Problem is, games are getting more and more realistic. Think back in the day when all we had were Super Mario 64 and Tomb Raider. Very stylized, but not realistic. Then with games like Halo and Devil May Cry, we finally started getting some decent shadow and lighting, and last gen, there were so many games like COD, Gears of War, God of War, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed that tried to mimic movies and were very realistic in presentation. Then starting from this gen, we're getting even better shadow/lighting/bump mapping/particle effects. (Infamous Second Son, Call of Duty : Advanced Warfare, The Order etc.)

I've played tons of games on my Panasonic S60 ranging from NES to XBO/PS4, and my opinion is, games have been decreasing in APL requirement with generation. Say for PS2 games, I still prefer my Sony BVM over my plasmas because of high APL requirement, but from XB360/PS3 generation, my plasmas pull way ahead, and now from this generation, there are far more games I prefer my Panasonic S60 over the Sony LCD I used to own. This is because Panasonic plasmas have realistic, mature presentation. That's why they're loved by many movie buffs here. They're not good with stylish or kiddy games, and that's a bit unfortunate as I also love stylized kiddy games like Sonic, Nintendo games, and other Japanese games like Persona. But since vast majority of games nowadays are Western games with realistic presentation, those are the games Panasonic plasmas really like. A bit ironic that a Japanese made TV doesn't work so well with Japanese games, but prefers western games instead.

And in order to bring the best in those western games which go for a realistic tone, you absolutely need ANSI contrast ratio the most. on/off contrast ratio beasts like the CRTs and FALDs don't work too well. I've also seen the Samsung JS9500 struggle on indoor scenes. By having great ANSI contrast ratio, it will bring out the best in shadow, lighting, bump mapping, and particles. And to sweeten things out further, shadow/lighting/bump mapping/particles/ or any kind of transparencies are very low in APL. Having tons of them in games will actually decrease average APL requirement, that's why I truly enjoyed COD:AW as its advanced shadows/lighting/particles did a lot to decrease APL requirement. Sure, my Panasonic S60 does struggle with GTA5 and Bioshock Infinite, but they're last gen games too. As of now, I've not seen a true current-gen game that brings my S60 into knee. Maybe AC:Unity will do it, but I haven't played it yet.

So no, a CRT will not be ideal for today's realistic games with its paltry 300:1 of ANSI contrast ratio, but it will still be functional with stylized games. I'm also thinking about buying the XBR960/XS955 and using it for high APL games, but I'm hoping the ABL-tweaked Kuro won't even make such possiblity a reality. Of course, for competitive multiplayer games and shmups, you can't beat a CRT with its zero input lag and excellent motion performance. BTW, seeing as I've used Sony CRTs, Sony LCD, and plasmas, I consider plasmas achieving about 2/3 of what my CRTs can do in terms of motion performance. The LCDs are about 1/3.

So, if I were you, I would either choose from a Kuro or the GT50. I would also go with one of the commercial models like PF30, but these ones seem evasive. If availability is a problem for all three options, then start with the S60 first, see what you like about this one and what you don't and plan your future upgrade accordingly. Whatever your choice, I'd like to hear your opinion in near future.
Great read!, appreciate the time and effort.

So you own a s60 or s64? Does the filter make that much of a difference? Which Sony PVM you own? I was looking at Sony D24 pvm (best HD pvm ever made), but they're still pretty expensive compared to xbr960/910's. Cheapest ive seen one was a couple weeks ago in NYC on CL. Guy was asking $500. Wasn't aware that even the best CRT Sony's had were that bad in ANSI contrast. Is 300:1 an exaggeration??? Any idea how an HD pvm compares to a xbr960 for blacks/contrast?

I guess the ST60 is out. Its a shame about the input lag. If the xbox one gets 10bit HDR update, i may hold out, but if the 1080P OLED gets to $1500, i may jump on it. I heard it was $1500 at frys earlier this year or late last year. Anyway, would be pretty cool too own the last 1080P OLED.

As far as 9G kuros, what am i looking for...111fd, 141fd, 151fd? Did they make them smaller than 50"?

So is the ST50 just ass good as the GT50? Why not the VT...too expensive? Did they make them smaller than 50"?

I might go test out my moms 60" u50 again playing xbox one games. Only games i ever played on it was classic game emus from my modded OG xbox and THPSHD, watched my brother play RE4 HD and kindom hearts 1.5 HD. If memory serves, RE4 looked very good and 1.5 looked pretty good too for a colorful like nintendo game. Not sure what settings he played them in but i did notice for bright colorful games on the u50, cinema doesnt cut it. I need to switch to either custom mode or game mode which really gives it that extra punch/pop in picture. THPSHD was a looked better and more enjoyable in game mode. It may be inaccurate, but still.

So i guess i will do some more scouring for 9G kuros (need a list of models), GT50's (and ST50?), and F5300/H500. What kind of prices am i looking at for kuros?

Just to be clear, you prefer the F5300/H5000 over the s60? Also, the xbr960 would still be king for xbox/ps2/GC correct?
Halo3492 is offline  
post #7444 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 10:04 AM
Senior Member
 
Bruce2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 140
I play really a lot on my ST60.


Since the release of it, the input lag was a big topic.


It is NOT a deal breaker at all. But check for yourself:


I have compared it to my old ST30 at that time. Yes you can feel the difference the most the first time you paly, but it is not the way that you die or miss shots constantly. Not at all. Maybe you get some kind of used to it. I played over 800hs of dark souls 2, a lot of GT6, Timing is not an issue, but yes it does not feel that superfast as other Panasonics.


The GT60 and VT60 are faster.






In the videos you see aprox. 35 vs. 75ms lag. The killzone is in general a laggy game, so just pay attention to the difference between the 35 vs the 75ms gaming experience.


The picture is just insane good on the last year Panasonics.


The filter makes the picture better with some light in the room, blacks stay black. Without a filter the colours are washed out. Even in a dark room with some light, when there is none filter at all.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4640.JPG
Views:	34
Size:	524.9 KB
ID:	800010   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4639.JPG
Views:	22
Size:	563.2 KB
ID:	800018   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4638.JPG
Views:	20
Size:	570.6 KB
ID:	800026   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4637.JPG
Views:	20
Size:	484.9 KB
ID:	800034   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4636.JPG
Views:	20
Size:	479.3 KB
ID:	800042  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4635.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	526.8 KB
ID:	800050   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4634.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	560.3 KB
ID:	800058   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4633.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	459.5 KB
ID:	800066   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4641.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	633.3 KB
ID:	800074   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wien-20140303-00167.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	208.6 KB
ID:	800082  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4755.JPG
Views:	16
Size:	533.9 KB
ID:	800090   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4617.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	314.6 KB
ID:	800098   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4616.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	390.3 KB
ID:	800106   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4615.JPG
Views:	16
Size:	354.9 KB
ID:	800114   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4614.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	281.1 KB
ID:	800122  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4613.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	325.3 KB
ID:	800130   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4612.JPG
Views:	21
Size:	373.7 KB
ID:	800138   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4611.JPG
Views:	20
Size:	322.1 KB
ID:	800146   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4610.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	492.0 KB
ID:	800154   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4619.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	320.8 KB
ID:	800162  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4756.JPG
Views:	14
Size:	456.6 KB
ID:	800194   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4753.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	606.3 KB
ID:	800202   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4751.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	613.9 KB
ID:	800210   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4750.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	448.0 KB
ID:	800218   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4746.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	733.4 KB
ID:	800226  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4745.JPG
Views:	14
Size:	673.1 KB
ID:	800234   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4757.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	506.4 KB
ID:	800242  
Bruce2019 is offline  
post #7445 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 10:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Bruce2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 414
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 140
For xbox/ps2/gamecube you could also get an older HD ready plasma tv set.


Many xbox games are in 16:9 aspect ratio, that is a huge advantage.


I have got some xbox shots for you on my ST60: Dragonslair is one of the rare HD games. You need a component cable for that.


The other game is running on a 360 (xbox game grabbed by the ghoulies)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6486.JPG
Views:	20
Size:	373.2 KB
ID:	800250   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6485.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	397.6 KB
ID:	800258   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5115.JPG
Views:	24
Size:	488.1 KB
ID:	800266   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5113.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	442.6 KB
ID:	800274   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5110.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	496.1 KB
ID:	800282  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5109.JPG
Views:	15
Size:	498.0 KB
ID:	800290   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5106.JPG
Views:	19
Size:	472.4 KB
ID:	800298   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6489.JPG
Views:	18
Size:	382.9 KB
ID:	800306   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6488.JPG
Views:	20
Size:	386.1 KB
ID:	800314  
Bruce2019 is offline  
post #7446 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 11:04 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Thanks for the pics and info man. Would you agree with KOF in that the 8G and 9G kuros are my best option? How do you feel they stack up to the 2013 pannys, particularly the 5020fd and s60/st60?
Halo3492 is offline  
post #7447 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 12:07 PM
KOF
AVS Special Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
Great read!, appreciate the time and effort.

So you own a s60 or s64? Does the filter make that much of a difference? Which Sony PVM you own? I was looking at Sony D24 pvm (best HD pvm ever made), but they're still pretty expensive compared to xbr960/910's. Cheapest ive seen one was a couple weeks ago in NYC on CL. Guy was asking $500. Wasn't aware that even the best CRT Sony's had were that bad in ANSI contrast. Is 300:1 an exaggeration??? Any idea how an HD pvm compares to a xbr960 for blacks/contrast?
I own the S64. The filter is very effective that I can watch my plasma in direct sunlight. The filter also makes black level slightly better than regular S60s and I've seen tons of S60s in light controlled showrooms too. Downside is slightly worse vertical viewing angle (doesn't really bother me) and slightly reduced brightness against the S60. (a bit unfortunate)

I own the Sony BVM-20F1U. Read the link below to get some general idea.

http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/45...t-retro-games/

Sony BVM has completely changed the way I think about CRTs. It has its own distinct flavor not seen from other CRTs. It's razor sharp like CRT computer monitors and LCD monitors, yet organic like true 480i arcade monitors/TVs, basically the best of both worlds. I throw every consoles and it has no trouble rendering spectacular image quality. Hell, even Megaman2 gives me liquid colors it's quite surreal. You may be thinking I'm crazy for suggesting a primitive NES graphics is awesome, and I would have said the same thing a few years ago. It must be seen to be believed. The BVM is the first and only CRT that belies its 300:1 ANSI contrast ratio. It feels more than that. Kind of similiar those Panasonic AX800s running on Super Chroma Drive to give more contrast ratio than their actual ANSI spec.

300:1 is not an exaggeration. In fact, that number is considered quite good for a CRT as 100:1 CRTs were much more common. While CRTs don't have good ANSI, they make that up with vastly superior on/off procedural contrast ratio that defeats even plasmas and FALDs and come close to OLEDs. The XBR960 in particular has better on/off black than even the Kuro 500M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
I guess the ST60 is out. Its a shame about the input lag. If the xbox one gets 10bit HDR update, i may hold out, but if the 1080P OLED gets to $1500, i may jump on it. I heard it was $1500 at frys earlier this year or late last year. Anyway, would be pretty cool too own the last 1080P OLED.
Usually for HDTVs, what goes on for sale during the year becomes the price when in closeout. Microcenter has once offered the EA9800 for $1999, and that became the final price the next year. (Heck, I even saw $1499 from one online store) The same was true for the Samsug F8500, except its closeout price was much cheaper. The EC9300 was once offered from East Coast for $1670, so expect $1499 Fry's price to become the reality on next year Superbowl season sale.

As for Bruce's comment, unless there has been a magical firmware that has addressed the ST60's input lag, I wouldn't still touch the ST60, but understand where he's coming from. Games have been getting input lag friendly. I mean, if I force myself, the LG plasma was still playable on Gears of War with 56ms input lag, but with so many alternatives, why bother? I actually recommended someone to buy the ST60 and he really loves its picture. One day, he asked me for recommendation on a gaming monitor since the ST60 simply cannot be made for a gamer's display. I also own the Samsung F4500 720p plasma and that one goes slightly over 40ms, and drives me crazy already. Playable, yes. Ideal, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
As far as 9G kuros, what am i looking for...111fd, 141fd, 151fd? Did they make them smaller than 50"?
8G

Kuro PDP-4280HD (42")
Kuro PDP-5080HD (50")
Kuro PDP-5010FD (50")
Kuro PDP-6010FD (60")
Elite PRO-110FD (50")

9G

Kuro PDP-5020FD (50")
Kuro PDP-6020FD (60")
Elite PRO-111FD (50")
Elite PRO-141FD (60")

9.5G

Kuro KRP-500M (50")
Elite PRO-101FD (50")


Sorry if I missed a few models. Usually, used Kuros for sale are seen on 50 inch size. Of course I'm also contemplating on 60 inch models, but these models are more elusive and expensive. I'm also searching for either 5020FD and the 111FD as they are usually the cheapest 9G, but I'm not against owning the 9.5G if the price is right of course.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
So is the ST50 just ass good as the GT50? Why not the VT...too expensive? Did they make them smaller than 50"?
I heard they're pretty much identical in contrast ratio distribution, but I also heard the GT50's THX Day mode to be very bright, so I'm not sure. As for the VT50, it's dimmer than both ST50/GT50, just as the VT60 is dimmer than the ST60 and the GT60 (Europe/Japan exclusive model) The only 2012 plasma that's dimmer than the VT50 is the U50. Not sure about the UT50 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
I might go test out my moms 60" u50 again playing xbox one games. Only games i ever played on it was classic game emus from my modded OG xbox and THPSHD, watched my brother play RE4 HD and kindom hearts 1.5 HD. If memory serves, RE4 looked very good and 1.5 looked pretty good too for a colorful like nintendo game. Not sure what settings he played them in but i did notice for bright colorful games on the u50, cinema doesnt cut it. I need to switch to either custom mode or game mode which really gives it that extra punch/pop in picture. THPSHD was a looked better and more enjoyable in game mode. It may be inaccurate, but still.
Oh, if you have an access to an U50, then all the better. Take note of its contrast ratio performance, input lag, and ABL drop on outdoor scenes. The S60 has slightly worst black level (barely worth mentioning as the two are still quite close), slightly worst input lag (about 3ms), but has twice the brightness at 20% APL. Also, if the U50 has the "AGC" option, use it and see if you like it or not. It slightly improves brightness at the expense of gamma accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
So i guess i will do some more scouring for 9G kuros (need a list of models), GT50's (and ST50?), and F5300/H500. What kind of prices am i looking at for kuros?
Depends on where you live. I personally discovered great Kuro deals are usually had near New York area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
Just to be clear, you prefer the F5300/H5000 over the s60? Also, the xbr960 would still be king for xbox/ps2/GC correct?
For current gen, no. Unlike my S64, I've never had a 'wow' moment with my Samsung F5300B at all. (and the irony is, I've owned the S64 for almost two years while for the F5300B, it's less than 9 months) That's why I'm greatly emphasizing a need for a great black level. Nowdays, black level is no longer confined to movies alone. Today's games need black level to truly let its advanced shadows and lighting to shine. Where my F5300 does well against my S64 is over 40% APL games, so the F5300B is more versatile in that sense. That's why I went with the two plasmas solution. Use my S64 for games using 30% APL and under and get that wow factor, and use my F5300B for games using 40%~50%. Between 30% and 40%, it's a toss-up between the two and I decide whether to prioritize the black level Panasonic or ABL performance of the Samsung. Neither plasmas come close with 50% and over contents when stacked against my previous Sony LCD (that had 300 cd/m2 of brightness with a good VA panel class black level), that's why I'm hoping the tweaked Kuro will finally dethrone both the VA LCDs and the XBR960 in high APL games. Fortunately, good black level does help with brightness deficiency somewhat and that was the reason why I was so disappointed with my F5300B's ABL performance against my S64 initially, despite having 20 cd/m2 brightness advantage for 50% APL. Even the stock 9G Kuro will have better black level than the S60, and better ABL performance than the F5300/H5000.

Last edited by KOF; 06-28-2015 at 12:30 PM.
KOF is offline  
post #7448 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 12:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Cravit8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,815
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 986 Post(s)
Liked: 519
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

3) Panasonic S60 : One of the best value plasma for gaming and movies. Its black level is phenomenal, I was literally awestruck when I was playing MGS5 Ground Zeroes. Even though MGS5 isn't known for having great graphics, the S60 has made it so much lifelike, I've never had this kind of "WOW" moments when I had an Sony Bravia.

I have been playing Batman Arkham Knight via PS4. I'm in love. Such amazing dark scenery. Graphics are finally what I've been waiting for in a console.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post

So the st60's input lag is bad enough in your opinion to just eliminate as a contender even for casual gaming?

Yes it's that bad.

PSN: Cravit8
XBL: oOo_Crav_oOo
Cravit8 is offline  
post #7449 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 12:39 PM
KOF
AVS Special Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
Thanks for the pics and info man. Would you agree with KOF in that the 8G and 9G kuros are my best option? How do you feel they stack up to the 2013 pannys, particularly the 5020fd and s60/st60?
While I personally haven't found a flat panel that can go up against my Sony Trinitron BVM for 240p games, for 480p games, there are several candidates.

The last gen Panasonic/Samsungs/Pioneers all have great ANSI black level to vastly outperform both Trinitron BVMs and XBRs. Problem is, tackling their brightness. I've purchased the F4500 to see whether it can be used as a CRT replacement. While I liked its organic presentation, its ABL performance still wasn't up to the tast. Too bad though, as its 1024x768 resolution makes for a spectacular vehicle for 480p games, especially those ones having 16:9 options. Hence, I've decided to purchase the Kuro 8G 720p plasma next. Classic games usually requires more brightness than today's games.
KOF is offline  
post #7450 of 7468 Old 06-28-2015, 01:51 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post
I own the S64. The filter is very effective that I can watch my plasma in direct sunlight. The filter also makes black level slightly better than regular S60s and I've seen tons of S60s in light controlled showrooms too. Downside is slightly worse vertical viewing angle (doesn't really bother me) and slightly reduced brightness against the S60. (a bit unfortunate) lag (about 3ms), but has twice the brightness at 20% APL. Also, if the U50 has the "AGC" option, use it and see if you like it or not. It slightly improves brightness at the expense of gamma accuracy.



Depends on where you live. I personally discovered great Kuro deals are usually had near New York area.



For current gen, no. Unlike my S64, I've never had a 'wow' moment with my Samsung F5300B at all. (and the irony is, I've owned the S64 for almost two years while for the F5300B, it's less than 9 months) That's why I'm greatly emphasizing a need for a great black level. Nowdays, black level is no longer confined to movies alone. Today's games need black level to truly let its advanced shadows and lighting to shine. Where my F5300 does well against my S64 is over 40% APL games, so the F5300B is more versatile in that sense. That's why I went with the two plasmas solution. Use my S64 for games using 30% APL and under and get that wow factor, and use my F5300B for games using 40%~50%. Between 30% and 40%, it's a toss-up between the two and I decide whether to prioritize the black level Panasonic or ABL performance of the Samsung. Neither plasmas come close with 50% and over contents when stacked against my previous Sony LCD (that had 300 cd/m2 of brightness with a good VA panel class black level), that's why I'm hoping the tweaked Kuro will finally dethrone both the VA LCDs and the XBR960 in high APL games. Fortunately, good black level does help with brightness deficiency somewhat and that was the reason why I was so disappointed with my F5300B's ABL performance against my S64 initially, despite having 20 cd/m2 brightness advantage for 50% APL. Even the stock 9G Kuro will have better black level than the S60, and better ABL performance than the F5300/H5000.
yes, the 20F1U is the best 4:3 CRT ever made. They are expensive on ebay. I've actually read that tested.com article a while back multiple times lol. I message Fudoh over at shumps for advice sometimes.

When you say "on/off" black, do you mean a full black screen? Thanks for the kuro list. I just found a 5020 in NYC (good call) for an asking price of $450. was texting back and forth with the guy an hour ago. He said everything was perfect, no problems ect. Then he texts me "someone else is coming by to pick up the TV FYI"....No idea why he did that, but that option is out now. Cant catch a break. Was $450 a good price? I'm guessing great. Any idea what the measured black level is for the 5020? Cant find it anywhere...whats the panny black level equivalent to the 5020?

Guess I'll just have to keep searching. I'll update on any new options I come across.

PS...besides pvm/bvm, is the xbr960 the for ps2/xbox/gc??? Just want to make sure lol.

Last edited by Halo3492; 06-28-2015 at 01:54 PM.
Halo3492 is offline  
post #7451 of 7468 Old 06-29-2015, 07:31 AM
KOF
AVS Special Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
yes, the 20F1U is the best 4:3 CRT ever made. They are expensive on ebay. I've actually read that tested.com article a while back multiple times lol. I message Fudoh over at shumps for advice sometimes.

When you say "on/off" black, do you mean a full black screen? Thanks for the kuro list. I just found a 5020 in NYC (good call) for an asking price of $450. was texting back and forth with the guy an hour ago. He said everything was perfect, no problems ect. Then he texts me "someone else is coming by to pick up the TV FYI"....No idea why he did that, but that option is out now. Cant catch a break. Was $450 a good price? I'm guessing great. Any idea what the measured black level is for the 5020? Cant find it anywhere...whats the panny black level equivalent to the 5020?

Guess I'll just have to keep searching. I'll update on any new options I come across.

PS...besides pvm/bvm, is the xbr960 the for ps2/xbox/gc??? Just want to make sure lol.
Yes, on/off = procedural = static = all meaning the same thing, from full black to full white. I'll give you one simple explanation to distinguish between on/off vs. ANSI

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack is having math and science tests in a month. He is confident, if he studies hard on either subjects for a month, he will get the perfect score (100 out of 100) on the subject he will have studied, but close to a big fat zero on the other he will have neglected.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If he studies for both subjects, he is not confident he will net even 50 on both subjects. More like 40/40 or 30/30. Yes, Jack is not really good at multitasking. Achieving 100 on both subjects is a pipedream.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

on/off contrast ratio is just that, divide full attainable "on" white by full attainable "off" black level. So for example for the LG UF7600 IPS LCD, its maximum attainable brightness is 242 cd/m2 while its mininum black level attainable is 0.151 cd/m2 (0.044 fL) so divide 242 by 0.151 = 1602:1 is its on/off contrast ratio. But since each measurement (either MLL or max brightness) is an independant event (either near perfect 100 on science or math, but not for both) , it's usually not indicative of the panel's true contrast ratio.

ANSI contrast is measured using checkerboard patterns that has 50%:50% ratio on both full black boxes and full white boxes simultaneously. Displays usually have more trouble rendering contrast ratio in ANSI checkerboard patterns than either full black screen or full white screen separately. 50 black : 50 white checkerboard pattern is also known as 50% APL pattern as it has 50% white. (full black screen has no white, so it is called 0% APL, while full white screen is called 100% APL) 50% APL ANSI contrast ratio is very useful number for measuring gaming performance for plasmas as not only attainable black level at maximum APL (for games) is given, but also the ABL brightness available for 50% APL. It's basically simulating the worst case scenario for games, like GTA5 and Resident Evil 5. Ok, maybe not absolutely the worst if NHL hockey games are involved (lol), but for practical purposes, let's both agree 50% APL is practical maximum for vast majority of PS4/XBO games.

Comparison of Black levels

For black level measurements with different plasmas, take a look at this thread.

And $450 is about right for a used 5020. Average price is $500, but actual price varies wildly with hours used, so next time you're buying a Kuro, ask the seller how many hours were used.

For Gamecube and original Xbox games, the XBR960 indeed is one of the best display, but for PS2, it's not quite clear. The XBR cannot render 480i contents natively, only 480p and 1080i. So any 480p full framebuffer games like God of War games, or 1080i game like Gran Turismo 4 (actual native resolution for that game is 640x540) will be a great match for the XBR960, but native 480i games like Gran Turismo 3 will suffer. For those games, the BVM will be a far better match. I was actually surprised how GT3 ran on my Sony BVM as I used to hate GT3's image quality. GT3 is one of the most difficult PS2 game to get it right on most displays as it's practically a low-res pixelated mess. When I was using Sony GDR-FW900 as my main display, I tried every methods to make PS2 games good on my monitor. I've dealed with HDTV Xploder, GSM, even tried various external scalers per Fudoh's recommendation, but it was futile. Well, my BVM had absolutely no problem making GT3 look great. It was quite cool as I still could see its low-res nature, but for some reason, for the first time ever, I was not bothered by its low resolution at all. It was low-res, yet quite organic, and never messy. My BVM was doing its best masking GT3's worst problems (low resolution, no mipmapping, interlacing) and highlighting its best characteristics. (great lighting, particle effects, great wide contrast) At that point, I was seriously asking myself why I had been prioritizing progressive scan over everything when interlaced output from the BVM looked far better than any of my attempts at trying to run these games in prog.scan. Seriously, the Sony BVM was the first CRT that has interlace PQ almost as good as progressive scan, it was scary. Back when I was young, I scoffed at those interlaced TVs assuming interlaced TVs are inferior to progressive scan CRTs because they were all blurry, not sharp. That simply wasn't the case with the BVM at all.
mailiang likes this.
KOF is offline  
post #7452 of 7468 Old 06-29-2015, 02:53 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Would the 2015 Vizio M series satisfy in blacks compared to these plasmas? Thats the only LCD I've been a little interested in with its size and price of the 43". I could possibly by it from Costo and have it hold me over for 3 months while i save up for the ec9300 or something else. I can return it before 90 days...

Btw KOF, this guy phonedork on youtube has a very detailed review of the Sony D24 HD BVM. Thought you might be interested. Also, I've seen that black level comparison thread before...very helpful. Is it easy to check hours on a 5020 or other kuros?

Last edited by Halo3492; 06-29-2015 at 03:02 PM.
Halo3492 is offline  
post #7453 of 7468 Old 06-29-2015, 03:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 1
@Bruce2019 , thanks for the screen shots, st60 looks real good. What was the st60s lowest tested input lag? Cnet has it in the 70s which is real bad while the F8500 is in the 50s when on PC mode.
Halo3492 is offline  
post #7454 of 7468 Old 06-29-2015, 07:21 PM
KOF
AVS Special Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
Would the 2015 Vizio M series satisfy in blacks compared to these plasmas? Thats the only LCD I've been a little interested in with its size and price of the 43". I could possibly by it from Costo and have it hold me over for 3 months while i save up for the ec9300 or something else. I can return it before 90 days...

Btw KOF, this guy phonedork on youtube has a very detailed review of the Sony D24 HD BVM. Thought you might be interested. Also, I've seen that black level comparison thread before...very helpful. Is it easy to check hours on a 5020 or other kuros?
Vizio? Not even close. In fact, even the Samsung JS9500 has worse black level than my modded LG plasma, and that plasma was a cheap 720p model for crying out loud. Even when playing in 10bit + HDR, its rendition of skies were quite poor compared with my plasmas. Chad B has measured the JS9500's black level as 0.024 fL, that's pretty much 10 times behind my S64, and it showed in Life of Pi and Exodus clearly. I'm not really a movies fan (more of a gamer) but my Panasonic S64 has finally made me enjoy movies somewhat and now I'm collecting HD-DVD/Blurays (I have plasmas to thank for. Even when owning a kick ass 7.2 system with killer 15 inches dual subwoofers 5 years ago, I didn't care for movies) , but man, the JS9500's movies bored me out in 15 minutes.

If you're interested in a Vizio because of its heiled gaming quality, I would caution you to be very, very careful. Panel lottery with those Vizo Ms and Ps are far severe and I've seen all kinds of same model Ms and Ps varying from good picture to downright horrible in both PQ, banding, uniformity problems. Vizio's panel lottery is just like Samsung, only 10 times worse. The 2015 latest P model does give the Samsung JS9500 a run for its money with great FALD system, I was actually impressed. But I'm also aware my experience will not be shared with others because of panel variance. For that reason, I would recommend a Sony instead. They have pretty ho-hum pictures for non-high end models, but at least they are more predictable.

Yep, that D series is quite interesting My next BVM purchase is actually going to be the 32 inch D model, BVM-D32E1WU

It supports resolutions from 240p, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Pretty much negating any need for owning the XBR960.

Last edited by KOF; 06-29-2015 at 07:33 PM.
KOF is offline  
post #7455 of 7468 Old 06-29-2015, 08:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 1
The 2015 P series is out, or did you mean 2014? Guess I'll skip the M series. I really just need something to hold me over for a 3-4 months cuz im dying to play some Batman, RE, and Last of Us and refuse to play them on my crappy 24" TN monitor. What size is your s64? Sell it to me!!! lol. Im regretting selling my 65s64 last summer but had no choice because i needed a car, (which i barely drove btw)

That D32 is the same as the D24 just bigger. Best HD CRT ever made. Those are even more expensive and hard to find. Theres a few on ebay right now. One had a discoloration, guy wants a grand. Another in Cally for $450 for like a 2 week rental lol. Crazy.

I would get that one if i had the money, but im not paying $500+ for it. Opting for a 960/910 because they can be had for less than $100.
Halo3492 is offline  
post #7456 of 7468 Old 07-09-2015, 06:40 PM
Member
 
Jawzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Just bought a 50S60 off of Craigslist for $340, came with the original box and everything. Checked the hours and it read 2,000. Not bad. I'm slightly upgrading from my 42UT50, as it gradually became small for my bedroom. Any advice for a new owner?

Person I bought it from forgot to include the four screws that attach the television set to the stand, and he doesn't seem like he will respond. Was wondering if anybody knows where I can purchase a replacement set? Or if somebody here no longer requires theirs, I'd be willing to purchase it off of you.
jazzycat and Halo3492 like this.

Last edited by Jawzey; 07-09-2015 at 08:22 PM.
Jawzey is offline  
post #7457 of 7468 Old 07-09-2015, 09:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mailiang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springsteen Country
Posts: 7,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawzey View Post
Just bought a 50S60 off of Craigslist for $340, came with the original box and everything. Checked the hours and it read 2,000. Not bad. I'm slightly upgrading from my 42UT50, as it gradually became small for my bedroom. Any advice for a new owner?

Person I bought it from forgot to include the four screws that attach the television set to the stand, and he doesn't seem like he will respond. Was wondering if anybody knows where I can purchase a replacement set? Or if somebody here no longer requires theirs, I'd be willing to purchase it off of you.
Sears parts direct.com/panasonic-television-parts/TXFBL5Z0118/0057/528/model-TCP50S60


Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

mailiang is offline  
post #7458 of 7468 Old 07-09-2015, 10:23 PM
Member
 
Jawzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Thank you very much, Ian!!
Jawzey is offline  
post #7459 of 7468 Old 07-09-2015, 11:59 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Hey guys, just to give you an update i ended up picking up a 50ps64 for $500 with only 224 hours on it, practically new. Perfect cosmetic condition, no IR, stuck pixels ect. Didn't come with original box but the guy gave me his 50st60 box. The guy had no idea how the 224 hours was used so i started running D-nice slides on custom default settings just to be safe since i plan on gaming on it. I plan on running the slides for 200 to 300 hours until it has a total of 424+ total hours. Hope i made the right decision in buying this tv and im looking foward to game and watch blu rays on it. Only other option i was really considering was the Vizio M series 43" and possibly a 50u50 i could of picked up for $225.

Still pretty curious about the Vizio M and might even buy one at Costco to do a comparison with my s64 then return it. If i do, i will let you guys know how it compares using test patterns.

Would like to thank KOF and Bruce2019 for all the help and advice. Much appreciated.

PS...is the disney WoW disk worth picking up??? I will probably just try CNET, D-nice (if he has any), and Fairchilds settings and choose my favorite. Do you guys use a different picture setting when playing games and watching movies/cable, or all the same settings? Thanks.
Halo3492 is offline  
post #7460 of 7468 Old 07-10-2015, 11:47 AM
Member
 
Jawzey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
Hey guys, just to give you an update i ended up picking up a 50ps64 for $500 with only 224 hours on it, practically new. Perfect cosmetic condition, no IR, stuck pixels ect. Didn't come with original box but the guy gave me his 50st60 box. The guy had no idea how the 224 hours was used so i started running D-nice slides on custom default settings just to be safe since i plan on gaming on it. I plan on running the slides for 200 to 300 hours until it has a total of 424+ total hours. Hope i made the right decision in buying this tv and im looking foward to game and watch blu rays on it. Only other option i was really considering was the Vizio M series 43" and possibly a 50u50 i could of picked up for $225.

Still pretty curious about the Vizio M and might even buy one at Costco to do a comparison with my s64 then return it. If i do, i will let you guys know how it compares using test patterns.

Would like to thank KOF and Bruce2019 for all the help and advice. Much appreciated.

PS...is the disney WoW disk worth picking up??? I will probably just try CNET, D-nice (if he has any), and Fairchilds settings and choose my favorite. Do you guys use a different picture setting when playing games and watching movies/cable, or all the same settings? Thanks.
Nice find!
jazzycat and Halo3492 like this.
Jawzey is offline  
post #7461 of 7468 Old 07-10-2015, 11:58 AM
KOF
AVS Special Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo3492 View Post
Hey guys, just to give you an update i ended up picking up a 50ps64 for $500 with only 224 hours on it, practically new. Perfect cosmetic condition, no IR, stuck pixels ect. Didn't come with original box but the guy gave me his 50st60 box. The guy had no idea how the 224 hours was used so i started running D-nice slides on custom default settings just to be safe since i plan on gaming on it. I plan on running the slides for 200 to 300 hours until it has a total of 424+ total hours. Hope i made the right decision in buying this tv and im looking foward to game and watch blu rays on it. Only other option i was really considering was the Vizio M series 43" and possibly a 50u50 i could of picked up for $225.

Still pretty curious about the Vizio M and might even buy one at Costco to do a comparison with my s64 then return it. If i do, i will let you guys know how it compares using test patterns.

Would like to thank KOF and Bruce2019 for all the help and advice. Much appreciated.

PS...is the disney WoW disk worth picking up??? I will probably just try CNET, D-nice (if he has any), and Fairchilds settings and choose my favorite. Do you guys use a different picture setting when playing games and watching movies/cable, or all the same settings? Thanks.
Ideally, games should also use same calibration settings as movies (Today's games are tone mapped to 8bit, just like movies) but this is not really feasible to the S64 as it has low brightness to begin with, so I just go for maximum contrast ratio instead. Custom mode, AGC high, Black Level to the lowest, etc.

For movies, yes, Disney WOW should be your first choice. I never bother with other's white balance settings as it tends to make it worse. (Even D-Nice says to leave it alone if you can't be bothered to pay for a calibration)
KOF is offline  
post #7462 of 7468 Old 08-05-2015, 05:08 PM
Member
 
StuSuss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chester County, Pennsylvania
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Media servers and HD resolution

I have two media servers on my Windows 8.1 PC, Plex and PlayOn.

The DLNA option on my 50S64 recognizes both media servers and a video selected from the menu plays on the television, both audio and video.

However, the video is not in HD. I have no idea what the resolution is; however, it is certainly not HD quality resolution.

I am not a techie. I need a basic, plain-language tutorial. How do I receive an HD quality video using PlayOn or Plex?

Thank you.
StuSuss is offline  
post #7463 of 7468 Old 08-08-2015, 08:09 AM
Newbie
 
Aerthand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Been using the 50S60 as my computer monitor for almost two years now. Input lag is negligible, retention is bearable, and image still looks amazing.

I use two GTX980's in SLI to a Pioneer receiver, to the TV.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	9Ypbudw.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	50.0 KB
ID:	875602  
Aerthand is offline  
post #7464 of 7468 Old 08-08-2015, 10:49 AM
Member
 
OttoKürschner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 8
Aerthand I recommend not to waste the hours like that.. web pages and general computing are killing your plasma faster than other activities

I did the same thing for about two years and finally woke up to the fact that these plasmas are not replaceable, so I bought a brand new Philips CRT (someone was hiding it for ten years and its nothing special but it was cheap and I greatly prefer to read text on CRT than LCD)

 
PDPs Panasonic 50PF30, 42PF30, 50PH9, 50PHD8 | CRTs Sony Trinitron 21", Philips 36PW9607

Last edited by OttoKürschner; 08-08-2015 at 11:00 AM.
OttoKürschner is offline  
post #7465 of 7468 Old 08-08-2015, 07:48 PM
Member
 
jazzycat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Just checking in. Still in love with the TV. Still can't believe how I lucked out! I can't believe Panasonic quit making these TVs!
foghorn2 likes this.
jazzycat is offline  
post #7466 of 7468 Old 08-10-2015, 09:49 PM
KOF
AVS Special Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoKürschner View Post
Aerthand I recommend not to waste the hours like that.. web pages and general computing are killing your plasma faster than other activities

I did the same thing for about two years and finally woke up to the fact that these plasmas are not replaceable, so I bought a brand new Philips CRT (someone was hiding it for ten years and its nothing special but it was cheap and I greatly prefer to read text on CRT than LCD)
Oh, come on, not this again. Panasonic themselves have stated their plasmas have half-life excess of 100,000 hours. Panel life is never an issue with today's plasmas. I've abused all 4 of my plasmas with PC use and all are fine. For exotic plasma owners like you, sure you'd like to control your usage, but there are also so many good plasmas at dirt cheap price that aren't extinct quite yet.

Really, once you've used a plasma for a PC use, you can't go back to LCD TVs. Unlike LCD monitors, LCD TVs are ridden with so much PWM/brightness that actually hurts my eyes more than PWM from plasmas.
KOF is offline  
post #7467 of 7468 Unread Yesterday, 09:06 PM
Newbie
 
Aerthand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoKürschner View Post
Aerthand I recommend not to waste the hours like that.. web pages and general computing are killing your plasma faster than other activities
Your concern has been noted. I spent $1400 on the video cards. The screen was $600. If it dies, I'll replace it. I don't watch TV, I don't watch movies. Games are my life. This screen had the lowest input lag I could find.

Sure, I could hang it in the living room and coddle it like the most precious thing in the world yet never really enjoying it. Or I could burn the living f*** out of it and when it dies look back and go "That was an amazing product. Glad I enjoyed it."
Aerthand is offline  
post #7468 of 7468 Unread Today, 07:42 AM
Member
 
jasondjulian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Aerthand, you are fortunate and good on you for being at that place in your life where such things are not a concern for you.

I have a feeling that of your plasma dies, you could go out and buy whatever display panel you want, regardless of cost.

98% of members of AVS do not fall into that category, and replies like above are defensive of this product because of its irreplaceable nature.

Given that, I'd say do whatever the crap you want with it. Use it to its fullest, enjoy it for what it is and go to town, you'll have a better relationship with your TV that way.
jasondjulian is online now  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Panasonic Tc P65s60 65 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic 60 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P60s60 , Panasonic Tc P55s60 55 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Tc P50s60 50 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic 42 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P42s60
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off