Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 08:53 PM
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The S1 series never had an anti-glare coating. I have a TC-P58S1 and a TC-P60UT50, which also doesn't have an anti-glare filter. Both are similar in terms of their reflectiveness, although the reflections on the UT are a bit sharper, which I'm assuming is due to the different glass layer that Panasonic uses on their new plasmas.

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post #722 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

The S1 series never had an anti-glare coating. I have a TC-P58S1 and a TC-P60UT50, which also doesn't have an anti-glare filter. Both are similar in terms of their reflectiveness, although the reflections on the UT are a bit sharper, which I'm assuming is due to the different glass layer that Panasonic uses on their new plasmas.

So was this 'AR' something different or just like a paint protection package like the car salesman sales, http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P54S1?t=specs&support#tabs

Maybe, I should shell out $100 and join Sams and get the S64, I can redeem the Amazon points as credit towards my account, so I'm still good.

Or, If I'm okay with reflection on the S1, can I expect this to be no worse? I'll still have reflection on weekends but at night I'll get to enjoy the Blacks more vs the AR filter?
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post #723 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 09:39 PM
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Is Costco really going to get the S64 models? Sams is the only retailer I can find that carries it so far...
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post #724 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Is Costco really going to get the S64 models? Sams is the only retailer I can find that carries it so far...

What's up with that? All of the Sam's in Norcal are in Sacramento and not one local Costco has the S64 in stock. I called them last week and the person on the phone knew about the model but said some agreement with Panny had not been finalized to sell the club version yet. It's not rocket science folks get these bad boys in stock already! I'm sick of looking at all the crummy Vizios. mad.gif
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post #725 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gt6974a View Post

So was this 'AR' something different or just like a paint protection package like the car salesman sales, http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P54S1?t=specs&support#tabs

Maybe, I should shell out $100 and join Sams and get the S64, I can redeem the Amazon points as credit towards my account, so I'm still good.

Or, If I'm okay with reflection on the S1, can I expect this to be no worse? I'll still have reflection on weekends but at night I'll get to enjoy the Blacks more vs the AR filter?

I have a 65 s1 and a 65 s60. The s60 is much more reflective than the s1. I tried out the s60 in my living room to replace the s1, but the glare was too much so I put it in my bedroom. Do yourself a favor and get the s64.

Panasonic Plasma Fan TC-P65ZT60 TC-P65S1 TC-P65S60 TC-60PU54-2 TC-P50U50-2 2 pioneer elite Vsx 42's XBOX 360 PS3 Verizon Fios QIP 7232 2
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post #726 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OCMike80 View Post

I have a 65 s1 and a 65 s60. The s60 is much more reflective than the s1. I tried out the s60 in my living room to replace the s1, but the glare was too much so I put it in my bedroom. Do yourself a favor and get the s64.

Wow, thanks to you and Yukon Trooper for the info and comparing to the S1. Exactly what I needed.

I guess at this point I just need to see if Costco gets it b/c my Brother-In-Law has a membership there so I'd save the Sams/Costco membership fee.
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post #727 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gt6974a View Post

Wow, thanks to you and Yukon Trooper for the info and comparing to the S1. Exactly what I needed.

I guess at this point I just need to see if Costco gets it b/c my Brother-In-Law has a membership there so I'd save the Sams/Costco membership fee.

I've heard of people paying the membership fee, and then canceling after making their purchase to get a full membership refund.

You're welcome glad to help. I've also noticed the s1 is brighter and that cuts down on glare during the day as well. I'm pretty sure the s1 does have an ar filter. The reflections are still there but they are muted or less noticeable. With the s60 they slap you in the face depending on how much color is on screen.

Panasonic Plasma Fan TC-P65ZT60 TC-P65S1 TC-P65S60 TC-60PU54-2 TC-P50U50-2 2 pioneer elite Vsx 42's XBOX 360 PS3 Verizon Fios QIP 7232 2
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post #728 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by OCMike80 View Post

@bamaboy1234@siusommd2010 I'm really digging the s64's ar filter vs the s60's no filter. Heck, even the s64 box is a whole lot nicer than the s60's plain brown cardboard box. It almost makes me want to take back the s60 and pick up the s64, but it's such a pain to go through all that trouble. Enjoy your new awesome sets.
Ya but the S64 box is too reflective.
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post #729 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 10:45 PM
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Here is the s60


Here is the s1



this is a better pic. as you can see the s1 has 3 lights on plus the computer lcd in background vs 2 lights on for s60.

Panasonic Plasma Fan TC-P65ZT60 TC-P65S1 TC-P65S60 TC-60PU54-2 TC-P50U50-2 2 pioneer elite Vsx 42's XBOX 360 PS3 Verizon Fios QIP 7232 2
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post #730 of 7067 Old 04-19-2013, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Inputlag View Post

Ya but the S64 box is too reflective.
Lol, but in a good way:p

Panasonic Plasma Fan TC-P65ZT60 TC-P65S1 TC-P65S60 TC-60PU54-2 TC-P50U50-2 2 pioneer elite Vsx 42's XBOX 360 PS3 Verizon Fios QIP 7232 2
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post #731 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

24p is only found in film sources; therefore, any device that can playback movies can potentially output at 24p. In your particular case, your standalone BDP player and PS3 have 24p options which can be overwritten with 1080p/60Hz output (they may already be set this way by default). The Xbox 360 has never had a 24p feature (use 1080p output with Display Discovery disabled). I cannot speak for your DirectTV HD DVR, but I have never come across a PVR/DVR that has a 24p option. 24p does not concern games.

Outputting the signal at 60Hz essentially converts the original 23.976 frames-per-second (24p) film source to a usable signal for 60Hz displays via something called 2:3 pulldown. Read more about it here.
All Blu-ray players can do 2:3 pulldown.
So basically, you're saying that with a blu-ray player, the whole "can't handle 24p point" is essentially useless, since the Blu-ray player will be handling the processing?
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post #732 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by OCMike80 View Post

Hi, I have a 60 u54 and a 50 u50. Both are Identical except the u50 has a thin silver lining running across the bottom frame. Everything else is the same, the u54 has a game mode unlike what some people were saying on the u50/54 thread. No the u54 doesn't have an ar filter It is identical in every way to the u50. I picked up my 60 u54 from sam's club for $798 so you may want to check them out as that price was firm. I think a better choice would be to get 60 s64 in my opinion as it has the ar filter.

Other than the AR filter (what does AR stand for?), are there any other differences between the S64/S60 and U54/U50?
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post #733 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Other than the AR filter (what does AR stand for?), are there any other differences between the S64/S60 and U54/U50?
Anti Reflective, I think.

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post #734 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 04:17 AM
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The prices in these are awesome. Subbing thread since I'm looking at a
60ST60 vs 65S60
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post #735 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

So basically, you're saying that with a blu-ray player, the whole "can't handle 24p point" is essentially useless, since the Blu-ray player will be handling the processing?

Someone with more expertise should probably chime in, but that doesn't sound right to me. If the TV doesn't properly handle 24hz, then it has to be converted to 60hz. Whether it's done by the BD player or the TV, it's the same 3:2 pulldown process, and will introduce the same judder (since it doubles some frames but not others).

That said, the judder effect probably isn't as bad as you're worrying. We've all been watching films this way for most of our lives. It's really only in special circumstances, like CNET's I Am Legend logo test, that you'll even notice it.
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post #736 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 06:50 AM
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the S60 and S64 must use the same software, when i tried the viera app on my ipad, it found a s60, not the s64......
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post #737 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

The S1 series never had an anti-glare coating.....

Actually the S1 does have an Anti-Reflective coating - it's the same coating that came on the G10. My stepson has an S1 and it's reflectivity looks exactly like my G10 (both models use the same panel and same filters). If your S1 didn't have a filter, it's reflections would be virtually identical (ie: similarly mirror-like) to your UT50. The S1/G10 AR Filter mutes and softens sharp reflections so they're not as defined as they are on a UT50 or S60. The AR Filter doesn't make a huge difference if there are lights or bright windows directly reflected in the screen as they'll still be visible (albeit somewhat muted), but it makes a larger difference with ambient light in the room (daytime light or lighting at night time).

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post #738 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by zzzed View Post

the S60 and S64 must use the same software, when i tried the viera app on my ipad, it found a s60, not the s64......

Can you please find the "Firmware Version" or "Software Version" in your S64 and post it? And then can someone with an S60 do the same?
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post #739 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by CSP2 View Post

Someone with more expertise should probably chime in, but that doesn't sound right to me. If the TV doesn't properly handle 24hz, then it has to be converted to 60hz. Whether it's done by the BD player or the TV, it's the same 3:2 pulldown process, and will introduce the same judder (since it doubles some frames but not others).

That said, the judder effect probably isn't as bad as you're worrying. We've all been watching films this way for most of our lives. It's really only in special circumstances, like CNET's I Am Legend logo test, that you'll even notice it.
I wouldn't think it would be (it does sound like I'm overreacting). I'm just used to the ultra-smooth look my ST30 did with 24p movies. Supposedly (in CNET's ST30 review), it handles it just fine.
I just wonder, how bad is the flicker on 48hz, really? I've never tried any other hz mode on other TVs. Is it something some people are more sensitive to, like the plainbow effect?
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post #740 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Can you please find the "Firmware Version" or "Software Version" in your S64 and post it? And then can someone with an S60 do the same?

My S60 has Software version 2206-10201

Also when going to do the Software update manually, it shows current/latest version is 2.206
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

I wouldn't think it would be (it does sound like I'm overreacting). I'm just used to the ultra-smooth look my ST30 did with 24p movies. Supposedly (in CNET's ST30 review), it handles it just fine.
I just wonder, how bad is the flicker on 48hz, really? I've never tried any other hz mode on other TVs. Is it something some people are more sensitive to, like the plainbow effect?

I let my HTPC handle the 60hz 3:2 pulldown. When your screen shows just 1080p when you press the info, then it's the device doing the conversion (blu-ray player, videocard/software in HTPC, receiver, etc). When your screen shows 1080p/24Hz, then it's the TV itself which will be doing the 3:2 pulldown.

As for the 48hz mode, the flicker is pretty bad. It's not as noticeable in scenes that are dark, but in bright scenes it's unbearable IMO.

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post #741 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

.
I just wonder, how bad is the flicker on 48hz, really? I've never tried any other hz mode on other TVs. Is it something some people are more sensitive to, like the plainbow effect?



Most people find 48hz unwatchable. I tried it (for 10 seconds).

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post #742 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

My S60 has Software version 2206-10201

Also when going to do the Software update manually, it shows current/latest version is 2.206

Thanks! Now if an S64 owner could chime in, that'd be perfect!
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post #743 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 09:07 AM
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I went to BB last to night to get a first look at a s60 but unfortunately our BB does not have them in stock and did not know when they would arrive. They did offer a good deal on a 50st50. Is the s60 that much better than the st50? Will reflection be worse on a s60? I'm not interested in 3d so that is not really a plus for the st50.
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post #744 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

I went to BB last to night to get a first look at a s60 but unfortunately our BB does not have them in stock and did not know when they would arrive. They did offer a good deal on a 50st50. Is the s60 that much better than the st50? Will reflection be worse on a s60? I'm not interested in 3d so that is not really a plus for the st50.

Yes, the S60 will be more reflective, but in dim lighting or darkened room, the S60 will be brighter and more vibrant (i.e. more depth and realism). The S60 may boast slightly better black levels as well.
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post #745 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 09:59 AM
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I don't think S60 would be brighter than ST50. S60 has aggressive abl
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post #746 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

So basically, you're saying that with a blu-ray player, the whole "can't handle 24p point" is essentially useless, since the Blu-ray player will be handling the processing?
Exactly. Cnet's picture processing comments can be ignored because the TV doesn't have to be relied upon to convert the 24p source. Any Blu-ray player, DVD player, media player, etc. can already do this. Many devices do it by default and don't even have an option to output at 24p.
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Actually the S1 does have an Anti-Reflective coating - it's the same coating that came on the G10. My stepson has an S1 and it's reflectivity looks exactly like my G10 (both models use the same panel and same filters). If your S1 didn't have a filter, it's reflections would be virtually identical (ie: similarly mirror-like) to your UT50. The S1/G10 AR Filter mutes and softens sharp reflections so they're not as defined as they are on a UT50 or S60. The AR Filter doesn't make a huge difference if there are lights or bright windows directly reflected in the screen as they'll still be visible (albeit somewhat muted), but it makes a larger difference with ambient light in the room (daytime light or lighting at night time).
I stand corrected. And that makes sense, since as I mentioned the reflections are sharper on my UT50. I had always thought the slight diffusion of light on my S1 was due to some physical characteristic of the glass itself. It's really unfortunate Panny didn't keep that light AG coating on their mid-range plasmas.

In my case, I have a window directly behind the UT50 (where my S1 used to be) and I can control the light coming into the room when I have to. The most annoying problem I have regarding light and the UT50 is light coming through the rear of the metal housing and hitting the rear of the panel during hours when the sun is shining directly into the window. I'm tempted to open it up and put some electrical tape over the holes where the light is getting through. Do you know if Panny fixed this on their 2013s?

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post #747 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 10:51 AM
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Tthanks fo r your comments! Can someone "define" dim lighting? My basement office is 10 ft x 15 ft and has two overhead can lights with individual 60w CFFL bulbs. Is that dim enough for a S60? There is a east facing window but I rarely watch tv during the morning (plus tv would be in the Se corner of room).
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post #748 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

Most people find 48hz unwatchable. I tried it (for 10 seconds).
Huh. Wonder if I'll be part of the "most". smile.gif Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

Exactly. Cnet's picture processing comments can be ignored because the TV doesn't have to be relied upon to convert the 24p source. Any Blu-ray player, DVD player, media player, etc. can already do this. Many devices do it by default and don't even have an option to output at 24p.
Gotcha. In that case, the only thing to "worry" about is the 100 lines less of moving picture resolution. cool.gif Hhgregg has ONE 60S60 in stock right now. Trying to get it reserved for pickup. biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

Tthanks fo r your comments! Can someone "define" dim lighting? My basement office is 10 ft x 15 ft and has two overhead can lights with individual 60w CFFL bulbs. Is that dim enough for a S60? There is a east facing window but I rarely watch tv during the morning (plus tv would be in the Se corner of room).
Yes, that's pretty dim.
Dark=no light/hard to see while walking around room (perfect for the S60)
Dim=a couple small lights that give the room enough ambient light to walk around
Mid=normal light for working/studying/etc.
Bright=morning/overcast day with small windows
Very bright=bay windows on a Florida sunny day. wink.gif

You should be good.
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post #749 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

Tthanks fo r your comments! Can someone "define" dim lighting? My basement office is 10 ft x 15 ft and has two overhead can lights with individual 60w CFFL bulbs. Is that dim enough for a S60? There is a east facing window but I rarely watch tv during the morning (plus tv would be in the Se corner of room).

I think you'd be fine with the S60.
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post #750 of 7067 Old 04-20-2013, 11:51 AM
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Nice description, thanks El Matadurr! I hope you will indulge me for one more longer question. I was hoping the S-60 would wow my wife last night. But not only did we not get see one, but the BB Sales associate really got to my wife. He's like, no-no,you do not want a plasma. According to him, plasma tvs use more power (true), do not have superior picture quality (false), lack brightness, whites are grays, and have 1/2 the years of service as a LCD. He did all this by comparing an inexpensive samsung plasma to a pretty decent LED tv. So she's supporting my decision to buy a new tv and even agreed to increase the budget but really thinking that I should buy LCD, in her word, trust the locals not the internet. I do ammunition to address some of this, but could give me your take/reply? thanks buddy!
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