Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 252 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7531 of 7560 Old 02-17-2016, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by foghorn2 View Post
Like you said, this site is so hard to navigate now with Huddler, most have gone away, its a ghost town.
I see. Seems to be a questionable call. This place used to be very crowded.
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post #7532 of 7560 Old 02-19-2016, 04:05 PM
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Like you said, this site is so hard to navigate now with Huddler, most have gone away, its a ghost town.
Since I can't really navigate the search feature well enough, what is Huddler?

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post #7533 of 7560 Old 04-23-2016, 07:51 PM
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Well my 50" finally completely died (after my previous broken screen and power surge/lightning hit). It just popped while I was watching Vikings, and now, no picture and three blinks of the led. I blame Rollo. It was a good ride while it lasted.

David
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post #7534 of 7560 Old 04-29-2016, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dsettlemoir View Post
Well my 50" finally completely died (after my previous broken screen and power surge/lightning hit). It just popped while I was watching Vikings, and now, no picture and three blinks of the led. I blame Rollo. It was a good ride while it lasted.

David
Bummer. I feel for you. (Is the new season of Vikings out yet?)

I'm still loving my plasma after having it for a year. The PQ is awesome. Especially watching GoT, because it's such a dark show.
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post #7535 of 7560 Old 05-04-2016, 02:50 AM
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So I've had a Panasonic 50S60 for over two years now and put about 3100 hours on the set. I've been very satisfied with the set, but one thing has been bothering me as of late. I feel like the set is suffering from worsening black level performance. Recently I had my desktop background set to black, and with the lights off in the room the screen seemed to be much brighter than I remember it being. This could be faulty memoey on my part, but I can remember thinking at one point in time that it was hard to tell if the TV was on when doing the same thing. I should point out again that this is in a pitch black room with no lights. Any ambient lighting and it becomes very difficult to see any drop in black level performance. Am I witnessing a degradation in black level performance, or has there always been a slight bit of light that is emitted even when the screen is displaying a perfectly black image?
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post #7536 of 7560 Old 05-04-2016, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Holt Allen View Post
So I've had a Panasonic 50S60 for over two years now and put about 3100 hours on the set. I've been very satisfied with the set, but one thing has been bothering me as of late. I feel like the set is suffering from worsening black level performance. Recently I had my desktop background set to black, and with the lights off in the room the screen seemed to be much brighter than I remember it being. This could be faulty memoey on my part, but I can remember thinking at one point in time that it was hard to tell if the TV was on when doing the same thing. I should point out again that this is in a pitch black room with no lights. Any ambient lighting and it becomes very difficult to see any drop in black level performance. Am I witnessing a degradation in black level performance, or has there always been a slight bit of light that is emitted even when the screen is displaying a perfectly black image?
Only Oleds can produce absolute blacks. However, there are some top tier plasma's, that produce back levels deep enough, that at least to our eyes, seem to be light emission free.

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post #7537 of 7560 Old 05-04-2016, 11:42 AM
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Years later my s60's get better and better with age! Like ME!
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post #7538 of 7560 Old 06-12-2016, 04:53 AM
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I have not noticed rising blacks on mine and it now has around 5000 hours on it, though it course there is still a glow from the pixels in a dark room.


On another note, I discovered something significant with my set that I wanted to share. For the longest time (i.e. since I had the set new), there always seemed to be a slight amount of added EE to the image that irked me and that couldn't seem to get rid of. I didn't quite know whether the source of it was the TV or the Blu-ray player. Well, I found that using the '1080p direct' mode gets rid of it, and I now have a perfectly smooth image with no added EE. The purity of the color is also a little better. I'm using firmware 2211-10201. Now, when the set was new, the '1080p direct' feature added a lot of EE and looked horrible, but they fixed it with the latest firmware.
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post #7539 of 7560 Old 06-12-2016, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
I have not noticed rising blacks on mine and it now has around 5000 hours on it, though it course there is still a glow from the pixels in a dark room.


On another note, I discovered something significant with my set that I wanted to share. For the longest time (i.e. since I had the set new), there always seemed to be a slight amount of added EE to the image that irked me and that couldn't seem to get rid of. I didn't quite know whether the source of it was the TV or the Blu-ray player. Well, I found that using the '1080p direct' mode gets rid of it, and I now have a perfectly smooth image with no added EE. The purity of the color is also a little better. I'm using firmware 2211-10201. Now, when the set was new, the '1080p direct' feature added a lot of EE and looked horrible, but they fixed it with the latest firmware.
EE? I've tried both pixel direct and normal using my Panasonic BD player, and more recently my new Roku 3600. I've never seen any difference. My firmware is up to date.

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post #7540 of 7560 Old 06-12-2016, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post
EE? I've tried both pixel direct and normal using my Panasonic BD player, and more recently my new Roku 3600. I've never seen any difference. My firmware is up to date.

I initially thought upon quick tests and comparisons there was no difference either, but further examination revealed there definitely are. I have the Oppo BDP-103.
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post #7541 of 7560 Old 06-12-2016, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
I initially thought upon quick tests and comparisons there was no difference either, but further examination revealed there definitely are. I have the Oppo BDP-103.

Not sure what you meant by EE. About two years ago, after trying direct for some time and not seeing any change, I emailed Lee Nielkirk an ISF certified calibrator (Reviewed.com) and he couldn't find a difference either. My only guess is, since all BD's use a sub sampling rate of 4:4:2, I can't see why there would be any difference, unless the TV does a better job when your Oppo is doing the up-conversion. Keep in mind that many players including my Panasonic, will output 4:4:2, but will only switch to 4:4:4 when selecting pixel direct on the TV set. From Spears and Munsil:

Quote:
The Conversion Chain
Let’s consider the process necessary to get video off a shiny disc (or from a digital broadcast or cable channel). First the video needs to be converted from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2, then to 4:4:4, then to RGB, and finally it can be fed to the display controller. This is the same process no matter what display technology is being used, whether LCD, DLP, plasma, or CRT. It’s possible to shortcut the process slightly by going directly from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4, but in practice this isn’t used very often.
If you choose to output 4:2:2 from your player to the display, then the display will need to do the scaling of Cb and Cr to generate a 4:4:4 image and then convert that to RGB. If you output 4:4:4 to the display, the display will not need to do any scaling at all, but will need to do the conversion to RGB. If you output RGB to the display, then the display can avoid all conversion steps and send the signal right to the controller. No matter which you choose, the same conversion steps are still happening; all you are choosing is which device is performing the conversion.
There’s no specific reason that a display or a player would be the optimal place to do these conversion steps. In theory doing the conversion in the display minimizes the amount of data that has to flow across the HDMI link, but in practice HDMI is more than adequate to handle any format all the way up to 4:4:4 or RGB.
So the key to choosing the right color space to output is finding out which device does a better job of converting color spaces. This is not always easy to evaluate, and it’s quite possible for one device to do a better job in one area, like 4:2:2 to 4:4:4, but do worse in another area, like 4:4:4 to RGB.
Choosing a different player may provide different results with your particular setup and not all TV sets offer pixel direct. In most cases the difference is nominal at best.

Ian





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post #7542 of 7560 Old 06-13-2016, 03:33 AM
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Ian,


I'm using the HDMI 2 out (to bypass the Qdeo video processing) and have all enhancements or picture adjustments off and am sending it as RGB. So the player is converting the 4:2:0 from the disc to RGB. But I notice the added EE with streaming too, so it's not unique to that of a connected blu-ray player. It appears the processing of the TV adds a slight amount of EE to the image (even with sharpness set to zero and all enhancements off), where as when using '1080p direct' it does not and displays the image as its received without any further processing or added EE. I think Chad B. said he gets the best results using the '1080p direct' mode though I don't know about EE. I happen to be highly sensitive to even a very small amount of EE, where as most people don't seem to be. For the longest time, the added EE irked me and I just couldn't get rid of it. Now, finally, it's gone completely, and I'm enjoying the best and smoothest picture from the set.
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post #7543 of 7560 Old 06-13-2016, 03:37 AM
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FYI, I'm running mine in 'Mid' Panel Brightness and a gamma setting of 2.2.


Edit: I have the 50 inch model.

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post #7544 of 7560 Old 06-13-2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
Ian,


I'm using the HDMI 2 out (to bypass the Qdeo video processing) and have all enhancements or picture adjustments off and am sending it as RGB. So the player is converting the 4:2:0 from the disc to RGB. But I notice the added EE with streaming too, so it's not unique to that of a connected blu-ray player. It appears the processing of the TV adds a slight amount of EE to the image (even with sharpness set to zero and all enhancements off), where as when using '1080p direct' it does not and displays the image as its received without any further processing or added EE. I think Chad B. said he gets the best results using the '1080p direct' mode though I don't know about EE. I happen to be highly sensitive to even a very small amount of EE, where as most people don't seem to be. For the longest time, the added EE irked me and I just couldn't get rid of it. Now, finally, it's gone completely, and I'm enjoying the best and smoothest picture from the set.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
FYI, I'm running mine in 'Mid' Panel Brightness and a gamma setting of 2.2.


Edit: I have the 50 inch model.
Please excuse my ignorance. Again, I'm not sure what you mean by EE. I have the same settings in terms of gamma and panel brightness as you do. I'm using HDMI 1 through a Pioneer AVR without any processing, just pass through. My player is currently set to 4:4:2 not RGB. When using direct it switches to 4:4:4. Either way I haven't seen any issues. I've also used my Roku 3600 stick which also goes through my AVR and most steaming content also looks great, regardless of which TV setting I use.

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post #7545 of 7560 Old 06-13-2016, 02:17 PM
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EE = Edge enhancement.


I have my BDP-103's HDMI out connected directly to the TV. I don't have it routed through a receiver (not that I think that would make any difference).
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post #7546 of 7560 Old 06-13-2016, 02:24 PM
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Ian,


Do you have the ability to send RGB from your player to the TV? Before I was using '1080p direct' mode, I was sending the TV RGB, as that seemed to give me the best results compared to sending 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. But I was still getting a slight amount of added EE regardless of what I fed the TV.
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post #7547 of 7560 Old 06-13-2016, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
Ian,


Do you have the ability to send RGB from your player to the TV? Before I was using '1080p direct' mode, I was sending the TV RGB, as that seemed to give me the best results compared to sending 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. But I was still getting a slight amount of added EE regardless of what I fed the TV.
Yes, but since most players default to 4:4:2, I never considered any benefit using RGB direct. Normally you should be using pixel direct with 4:4:4 or RGB, but as I posted earlier, I have used both 4:4:2 and 4:4:4 settings on my Panasonic player and have not seen any noticeable edge enhancement on my S60. I can only assume your issue has something to do with your player.


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post #7548 of 7560 Old 06-13-2016, 03:41 PM
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I can only assume your issue has something to do with your player.

Well, it was there and noticeable with previous players too -- not just the OPPO.
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post #7549 of 7560 Old 06-13-2016, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
Well, it was there and noticeable with previous players too -- not just the OPPO.
Maybe your set has a calibration issue. If edge enhancement was a common problem with this TV, I would think that more S60 owners would post about it on this thread. At least you found a solution for your set. Enjoy.

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post #7550 of 7560 Old 06-19-2016, 09:39 PM
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So I've got a strange problem! I have an old lamp I use as a bias light behind my S60. Today I was taking a look at my TV for burn in and happened to notice a slight orange glow in a horizontal line near the bottom left of my TV. I thought it was some dead pixels or another type of defect. To test it I went into paint and maximized a black image. Sure enough there was this orangish horizontal line. I couldn't figure out what it was or what caused it. To get a better look I turned off the bias light behind the TV. Suddenly the problem was gone. I turned it back on and the line returned. The only thing I can figure is that somehow the light from the bias lamp is passing through the back of the TV to light the pixels. Has anyone heard of or had a problem like this before.
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post #7551 of 7560 Old 06-20-2016, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Holt Allen View Post
So I've got a strange problem! I have an old lamp I use as a bias light behind my S60. Today I was taking a look at my TV for burn in and happened to notice a slight orange glow in a horizontal line near the bottom left of my TV. I thought it was some dead pixels or another type of defect. To test it I went into paint and maximized a black image. Sure enough there was this orangish horizontal line. I couldn't figure out what it was or what caused it. To get a better look I turned off the bias light behind the TV. Suddenly the problem was gone. I turned it back on and the line returned. The only thing I can figure is that somehow the light from the bias lamp is passing through the back of the TV to light the pixels. Has anyone heard of or had a problem like this before.
Not uncommon. I believe Randy Walters, a long time member of this forum, has addressed this issue a few times.


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post #7552 of 7560 Old 06-29-2016, 10:32 AM
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About 7000 hours on the 55" S60 now... Black levels seem the same or slight darker than when new(er). They did get better after about 1000 hours.. and have either stayed the same or gone lower since.

Still a beautiful PQ for what was at the time a $1000 tv. BluRays are just mind blowing... and the demo material from Panasonic and Pioneer is awe inspiring and at my viewing distances, as perfect as any 4k I've looked at.

Still impressed.
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post #7553 of 7560 Old 07-03-2016, 11:48 AM
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Still a beautiful PQ for what was at the time a $1000 tv.

Didn't you get yours for only $700? A local dealer here was offering the 55" for $699 shortly before I bought mine, and I missed out on it. I ended up getting the 50" for $670 from Best Buy back in October '13. Still an excellent bargain.
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post #7554 of 7560 Old 07-03-2016, 11:37 PM
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I've had my TC-P60S60 since January 2014. Thus far, it's been a great display. Tonight, the family and I went down to watch Independence Day (from 1996). No picture.


I have my PS3 and the DTV Genie going through an Onkyo TX-SR608, from February 2011. The receiver, to date, has been fantastic, but it, too, has an issue.


After much frustration and changing cords and setup options, I have determined my HDMI 2 is no longer functioning. Prior to this evening, it was the only input used, on the display.


I have also determined that everything on the AVR works, except HDMI OUT. This setup is used sparingly, as a home theater. Status4 shows 674 hours, on the display.


The AVR was used daily, until May 2013. It has always processed all audio and video before sending the video through HDMI.


Of course, my old display, a kickass Samsung D7000, which is now the daily watch display, had the extended warranty, which never got used, so I decided against it, on this one....


The only thing I can think of what a lightning strike. Two nights ago, we had a crazy storm. I was looking outside when a huge bolt hit very close. It turned on my neighbor's light (he's out of State, right now). That light has been on, ever since. My guess is since the HDMI 2 on the display has ARC, it somehow fried both the HDMI receptacles.


Really, I don't know!!!


Any ideas? How would I even get this looked at?


I'm afraid the AVR is going to become a stereo (music only) piece and need replaced. The display can still be used with HDMI 1, but I am fearful there may be gremlins in there, now, that do further damage. At this point, I plan to just have the PS3 directly plugged into the display, through HDMI 1. The audio can go to the AVR through an optical cord. Unfortunately, I did a reset, on the AVR, so I have to redo all of that, too.


Not a great day. Half the fun of Blu-ray is the great sound. Back to standard Dolby Digital, for me....


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post #7555 of 7560 Old 07-04-2016, 08:02 AM
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I never use HDMI-2. I have everything including my BD player, DTV DVR and Roku, passing through my Pioneer AVR to the HDMI-1 input. At this point, I suggest you do the same if you want the best audio quality. I doubt that changing to a working input on your S60 will create any new issues.

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post #7556 of 7560 Old 07-04-2016, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikerret View Post
The display can still be used with HDMI 1, but I am fearful there may be gremlins in there, now, that do further damage.

Yes, but look on the bright side. At least one HDMI input still works.
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post #7557 of 7560 Old 08-08-2016, 06:33 PM
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Came home today and discover that none of my HDMI ports work. TV still turns on, volume works, smart TV works, just no HDMI. This is a big problem. Any ideas on a fix???

---EDIT:

called Costco/Squaretrade. As i suspected, the main board is bad (at least the HDMI connections are down), and SOMEHOW they still have main boards in the inventory. Overnighting me the part and then a tech will be scheduled. Wasn't ready to part with my S64, as I can't find a comparable picture quality remotely close to 699 purchase price.

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post #7558 of 7560 Old 08-18-2016, 02:31 PM
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So I have a 65 inch s60 and have the opportunity to get a newer KS8000 samsung LCD. Would it be worth the change or is the image quality still not as good as a 3 year old plasma?
Does the s60 TV support 4:4:4? I never seemed to be able to get it working. I use it mainly from my PC as an input and for movies/gaming.
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post #7559 of 7560 Old 08-20-2016, 04:19 PM
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So I have a 65 inch s60 and have the opportunity to get a newer KS8000 samsung LCD. Would it be worth the change or is the image quality still not as good as a 3 year old plasma?
Does the s60 TV support 4:4:4? I never seemed to be able to get it working. I use it mainly from my PC as an input and for movies/gaming.
Personally, unless you NEED a new TV, my advice is to wait. UHD and wider color gamut are still evolving. If you haven't had an LCD before, there are some things you may not like, and the Samsung has those issues (off-axis viewing suffers, the set is edge-lit which causes it to glow brighter in the corners--good luck with black bars on movies, and it's black level is not very deep). CNET gives this $1800+ Samsung TV a 7.5 rating, stating the competition is better at that price point. You may want to check out their review and others. Worst case, get it home and try it. Return it if you don't like it and go back to your plasma. I wouldn't bother though. Your plasma was less money and produces a better picture. I have the S64, which is the S60 with the ST60's black/AR filter, which CNET gave a 9 out of 10. The S60 got an 8 out of 10, mainly due to the reflective screen.
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Originally Posted by ToonMasterTim View Post
Personally, unless you NEED a new TV, my advice is to wait. UHD and wider color gamut are still evolving. If you haven't had an LCD before, there are some things you may not like, and the Samsung has those issues (off-axis viewing suffers, the set is edge-lit which causes it to glow brighter in the corners--good luck with black bars on movies, and it's black level is not very deep). CNET gives this $1800+ Samsung TV a 7.5 rating, stating the competition is better at that price point. You may want to check out their review and others. Worst case, get it home and try it. Return it if you don't like it and go back to your plasma. I wouldn't bother though. Your plasma was less money and produces a better picture. I have the S64, which is the S60 with the ST60's black/AR filter, which CNET gave a 9 out of 10. The S60 got an 8 out of 10, mainly due to the reflective screen.

Thanks for the opinion!
Decided to keep the s60. Just going to redo my profiles in the new place. I did not know about the firmware updates either! Always ran the check on the TV itself but returned as up to date. I always loved that it doesn't have a AG filter on it, always noticed the crosshatching or sparkles and it drives me insane. Might as well wait until 4k and HDR are ironed as formats.
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