Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread
Moonchilde's Avatar Moonchilde 02:47 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Remind me again, why are you steering away from the S60?
As good or better. Granted, I used D-Nice's settings on my ST30 in custom, rather than game, mode. So my ST30 had a bit more lag there. But, the lag on the S60 is so low that network latency is a (noticeably) bigger factor.
You've got your head in the right place thinking all of this through. The S64 would probably suit you just fine. Also, the size of a screen affects gaming only based on your viewing distance. I get the same vision-filling effect if I sit 2 feet away from my 42ST30 as I do sitting 4 feet away from my 60S60. Any closer, it gets weird and I can see the pixels. Any further, I start to lose my ability to pick out enemies that are so far away they are literally just a few pixels on the screen.
You may want to go to a store that lets you hook up a 24p blu-ray and see if 48hz bothers you before getting an S64. Supposedly most people can't stand it.
Basically, it allows the TV to display full 4:4:4 if the source has it, which is fancy talk for exactly what the source material wants to display. "Better" color/luminance in some color channels.
Correct.

No 3D, 2 point grayscale, no RGB saturation controls. I really wanted a monitor I could use for gaming and have reference picture quality, because I actually want to start doing some indy game design and having a large reference quality screen would have been nice for such things, but it needs to be able to handle my gaming needs.

The S60/S64 at least handles the gaming needs part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

I can't seem to find any side-by-side comparisons with this feature on or off. Can you notice any difference when it's enabled/disabled? And are results dependent on the source?

No real difference if you turn off overscan and set the picture to full so you get the full amount of pixels. Turning it on is the same thing pretty much but adds 1 frame of lag, so the former is the better option.

tubayj's Avatar tubayj 03:18 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Arkadian View Post

Thanks for the item #. That's a big help.

For those in the NY - NJ area, the Costco in Yonkers has the S64 in-stock. The S64 is also stocked at the Westbury location.

FYI, those in CA the S64 will be only available in Lodi, Chico, Cal Expo??, and Concord according to the person I spoke to.
Don't know if this is true but sucks big time to not see one in person!

They don't do store to store transfers either.
MonKENy's Avatar MonKENy 04:21 PM 04-26-2013
aww I got skipped for help from you guys frown.gif

I dont have anything else to contribute though lol.
jaleisure's Avatar jaleisure 04:36 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

No 3D, 2 point grayscale, no RGB saturation controls. I really wanted a monitor I could use for gaming and have reference picture quality, because I actually want to start doing some indy game design and having a large reference quality screen would have been nice for such things, but it needs to be able to handle my gaming needs.

The S60/S64 at least handles the gaming needs part.
No real difference if you turn off overscan and set the picture to full so you get the full amount of pixels. Turning it on is the same thing pretty much but adds 1 frame of lag, so the former is the better option.
I think it does have RGB saturation controls
jaleisure's Avatar jaleisure 04:55 PM 04-26-2013
I hear ya on the other stuff though, it would be nice to have a 10 point W/B and a more detailed gamma control, but I think the S60 will be able to dial in a pretty sweet picture with its modest 2 point W/B, RGB controls
(hue, saturation and luminance) and simple gamma slider. Probably not quite reference but it will keep me happy since i returned my ST50 because I realize I can't stand AR filters. It just seems to loose some clarity and depth for me. Plus the ST50 had no RGB controls for hue, saturation and liminance, only the W/B and gamma slider so for me the S60 is a should be a winner since it is unfiltered for clarity and had more pic controls than my pillow soft hazy ST50 picture. That's just my humble opinion, I hope this set proves me right, getting one soon.
MillerDuck's Avatar MillerDuck 04:56 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubayj View Post

FYI, those in CA the S64 will be only available in Lodi, Chico, Cal Expo??, and Concord according to the person I spoke to.
Don't know if this is true but sucks big time to not see one in person!

They don't do store to store transfers either.

Maybe we should start an "S64 Available in the Wild" thread?
MechanicalMan's Avatar MechanicalMan 05:08 PM 04-26-2013
In my experience, 10 or 20-point white balance controls can be pretty useless on plasma TVs, and Katzmaier said that he found them pretty useless on the ST60. The 20-point adjustment on my own plasma is basically worthless. The 10-point gamma controls on higher model Panasonics seem useless as well. I do wish the S60/64 and ST60 had CMS controls for secondaries, but they reportedly achieve very good color without them, so it's not a huge loss.
jaleisure's Avatar jaleisure 05:17 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalMan View Post

In my experience, 10 or 20-point white balance controls can be pretty useless on plasma TVs, and Katzmaier said that he found them pretty useless on the ST60. The 20-point adjustment on my own plasma is basically worthless. The 10-point gamma controls on higher model Panasonics seem useless as well. I do wish the S60/64 and ST60 had CMS controls for secondaries, but they reportedly achieve very good color without them, so it's not a huge loss.
that's good to hear and it supports my gut feeling that the S60 will be able to dial in a beautiful picture. Regarding the lack of secondaries in the CMS, I read (maybe in the cnet review, not sure, I've read so much on these models) that once dialing in the primaries, the secondaries fall into place pretty well.
fairchild99's Avatar fairchild99 05:25 PM 04-26-2013
Just had a nice long nearly 3 hour session calibrating with my new Colormunki spectro. I compared the settings I was using before which ended up having a DE of 8.54 (30-100) and 2.23 for the primary/secondaries, so the i1 LT seemed to be off by a bit with grayscale. (basically according to the new spectro, the i1 LT colorimeter I was using was reading red too low and blue too high, I had an avg of around 7500-7000 color temp which is much cooler. Now I redid the calibration in both Custom and Cinema. I used 10% apl patterns from the GCD disk and calibrated with 75% amp 100% saturation and attained an avg de of 1.13 (30-100) for the grayscale with 2.25 gamma and avg de of 1.64 for the primary/secondary
Quote:
Cinema
con 78
bright -2
color 50
tint 0
sharp 0
Warm2
vivid off
cats off
video nr off

mpeg nr off
Pro
panel Mid
AGC 0
black ext 0
color gamut normal

w/b
high R -1
high G 0
high B -2

low R 7
low G 0
low B 6

cms
R hue -17
R sat -3
R lum -7

G hue -1
G sat -13
G lum -7

B hue 1
B sat 0
B lum 1

gamma 2.4

Now this one was done in Custom, used AVS HD 709 window patterns with 100% color window patterns. This one has a bit more punch in it because the colors are calibrated with a higher amplitude. Avg DE of 1.55 (30-100) with avg gamma of 2.26 and avg DE of 1.69 for primary/secondary.
Quote:
custom
con 82
bright -4
color 50
tint 0
sharp 0
warm2
vivid off
cats off
video nr off

mpeg nr off
pro
panel mid
agc 0
black ext 0
color gamut normal

w/b
high R -3
high G 0
high B 2

low R 12
low G 0
low B -4

color
R hue -8
R sat -12
R lum -14

G hue 3
G sat -5
G lum -9

B hue 1
B sat 2
B lum -11

gamma 2.4

I'm definitely seeing neutral grays, especially on this forum, the grays don't shift towards red but definitely the picture will look more red for starters if you were using my old settings, because as I said they were too cool, my meter was reading red too low and blue too high. Even though it was calibrating to 6500k, in actuality it was closer to 7000-7500k. Also I am seeing the red dithering in near black on the brightness clipping pattern, but it's not affecting actual video content. Will go through some blu-rays to check how they look (Avatar and the Dark Knight) and also watch some sports tonight and see how everything is looking. smile.gif

I'm personally digging the Cinema settings a bit more, less punchy picture as far as color's, but I think that's the more accurate for plasma's since the Cinema calibration I used both the 75% amp/100% sat color patterns and I also used APL window patterns throughout the calibration.

Hope you guys enjoy.
MechanicalMan's Avatar MechanicalMan 05:38 PM 04-26-2013
fairchild99 or anyone else who owns both an S60/64 and a meter, will you tell me what luminance measures on a full white screen? I've seen some measurements for the ST60, and I want to know how the S60 compares.
fairchild99's Avatar fairchild99 05:42 PM 04-26-2013
You mean on a full field pattern 100 IRE pattern? That will most definitely be reading low. I can tell you 100 IRE windowed and my settings, I measure anywhere from 29 to 30 ftl?
MountainMichael's Avatar MountainMichael 05:55 PM 04-26-2013
fairchild99, Thanks for sharing your work on these S60 calibrations.
tubayj's Avatar tubayj 05:58 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerDuck View Post

Maybe we should start an "S64 Available in the Wild" thread?

Good one. Their available somewhere in the jungle... just NOT at your "local" costco.
Thanks Panny for dropping the ball on the S64.
Tim Akin's Avatar Tim Akin 06:09 PM 04-26-2013
SAMs website says online only, are they in the club stores?
mphfrom77's Avatar mphfrom77 06:26 PM 04-26-2013
fairchild, what TV do you have in which those settings were used?
MountainMichael's Avatar MountainMichael 06:27 PM 04-26-2013
I didn't see them at my local stores
Tim Akin's Avatar Tim Akin 06:33 PM 04-26-2013
Yeah, I've been checking all the surrounding states and they all say online only but I thought I read here that some had seen them in the stores.
fairchild99's Avatar fairchild99 06:46 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

fairchild, what TV do you have in which those settings were used?

50" S60 of course. smile.gif
MechanicalMan's Avatar MechanicalMan 06:53 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

You mean on a full field pattern 100 IRE pattern?

Yes. I want to know how brightness and ABL compare to other plasmas, especially the ST60. I haven't seen anyone measure the S60 in custom mode with mid panel brightness, and I would like to know what that measures. Any difference in brightness between the S60 and ST60 is more important to me than something like 3D, which I will never use.
fairchild99's Avatar fairchild99 06:58 PM 04-26-2013
Next time I whip out the meter I'll try to remember to run a full field pattern.
scooter520's Avatar scooter520 07:25 PM 04-26-2013
the 65" S64 showed up in my city's Sams Club today. It was out on display and below are my thoughts and observations. Keep in mind I own a Panasonic 50" S1 and Panasonic 60 GT30. I prefer plasmas over LEDs and was really hoping this would be my next TV (it wont be):

1. The AR filter really doesn't do much for reflections. In fact, it was probably 90% as reflective as the regular S60, if not 95%. For those thinking the S64 is going to make any sort of difference over S60 regarding reflections, it wont. It is still a mirror.

2. Now, I have 20/15 vision so take this for what its worth. I could see "waviness" or "ripples" on the surface of the glass which i believe is AR coating. Im not saying the actual glass panel was rippled, it was perfectly flat as I ran my hand across it, but I could see it when I was anywhere from about 20 degrees off center and then all the way to 90 degrees. And I could detect it the most with dark colors on the screen, not light or white background. All I can say is it was similar to an amateur window tinting job you see on some cars, but not quite that bad.

3. It has a very dark picture, even in vivid mode. In fact, the whites were so dark, they were definitely a gray. I was severely disappointed with this. I then tried the other picture modes, and the darkness just got worse. I just dont get what has happened with plasmas the last few years?? My 50" S1 Panny is very bright, and whites are white. This S64 was ridiculous dark and the whites were not anywhere near WHITE. It is by FAR the darkest luminescence I have seen among the recent plasmas.

4. Nice colors and deep blacks, better than any of the surrounding LEDS.


Overall, even though its priced at $1488 at Sams, I dont see the value as the picture is very dim and the whites look terrible.

FYI --- I looked at the Samsung F8500 plasma at BB last night and was blown away. That is one NICE picture; dark blacks, bright whites, rich colors. If I had $3500, I would buy it in an instant.
Leon!'s Avatar Leon! 07:36 PM 04-26-2013
^thanks for the fb scooter. Shocking to hear it didn't make a difference with the filter- just curious, do you find the st's to be equally ineffecyive in that respect? If so, it might be a matter of personal perspective, because I've found the st's ag filter works well comparitively, though I'm still not entirely sure if the s64 actually has the same one, with all the different marketing/tech terms panasonic throws at us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerDuck View Post

Maybe we should start an "S64 Available in the Wild" thread?
Yes, please. Someone do that. I don't want to get yelled at. & you will get yelled at.
scooter520's Avatar scooter520 07:43 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

^thanks for the fb scooter. Shocking to hear it didn't make a difference with the filter- just curious, do you find the st's to be equally ineffecyive in that respect? If so, it might be a matter of personal perspective, because I've found the st's ag filter works well comparitively, though I'm still not entirely sure if the s64 actually has the same one, with all the different marketing/tech terms panasonic throws at us.t.

Yes, it may be perspective. I consider a good AR filter if it makes the light fixtures reflecting in the screen a bit "hazy/distorted/washed out". On the S64, all the Sam's clubs overhead lights, the front door to the store, as well as the TV's on the other other side of the aisle, were clearly distinguishable on the screen. I've seen the ST60, and the ST60 is a bit better filter, and I definitely didnt see that weird waviness in the ST60 filter like I did in the S64. And no, I havent been drinking>>>>wink.gif
MountainMichael's Avatar MountainMichael 07:54 PM 04-26-2013
My 55ST60 has a lot of pretty deep ripples or waves in the glass. It is of no consequence to me.
El Matadurr's Avatar El Matadurr 08:02 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

El Matadur, do you run pixel direct for Xbox?
Yep! No problem. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

I can't seem to find any side-by-side comparisons with this feature on or off. Can you notice any difference when it's enabled/disabled? And are results dependent on the source?
A bit better color. I can't see the difference (I'm R/G colorblind), but OCMike tells me it looks better. So hey, whadayahknow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

No 3D, 2 point grayscale, no RGB saturation controls. I really wanted a monitor I could use for gaming and have reference picture quality, because I actually want to start doing some indy game design and having a large reference quality screen would have been nice for such things, but it needs to be able to handle my gaming needs./quote]
Hmm, that's a shame. Though the S60 does have RGB saturation controls, I guess it never gets to "reference", if that's important to you. However, the set DOES look fantastic in a dark room. biggrin.gif

rvanderwerf's Avatar rvanderwerf 08:18 PM 04-26-2013
hmm I disgree. I have a p65s60 in front of me and saw the s64 at costco yesterday. I thought the coating did help quite a bit in the terrible store environment. Yeah, it still had glare, but it was much less than my s60. Still running slides on my s60, but as others said, it is a mirror.
rvanderwerf's Avatar rvanderwerf 09:12 PM 04-26-2013
That's messed up, lol. Thanks for the settings magic fairchild99, wow what an improvement!
moshock's Avatar moshock 09:18 PM 04-26-2013
Watching my new TC-65PS64 right now. Got it from Costco for $1399.99 + 5 years worth of warranty for $99.99 (1 year manufacturer's + 1 extra year costco + 3 years square trade).

I diligently compared an S60 and an ST60 at Best Buy with various content to assess the AR filter's worth, and it was a big difference IMO. Most TV's with AR filters look rippley to me when off, but it's what the surface looks like when the unit is on that is more important, am I right? And now on dark content, I don't see myself in the mirror. Please note: I have a well lit room and 65" is massive, the S64's AR filter is doing the job well. Very happy with my decision!

One question I have - how do I "disable" the TV speakers? Every TV I've owned prior to this let me do it.. but I feel like I've been through every menu 5x over and I can't figure it out. Do I just turn the volume all the way down to '0' or what?
MechanicalMan's Avatar MechanicalMan 09:51 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshock View Post

Do I just turn the volume all the way down to '0' or what?

Yeah, that is what people said in the ST60 thread, and I've had to do that on some of my TVs.
OCMike80's Avatar OCMike80 10:06 PM 04-26-2013
@moshock Yes it is possible, assuming you have an av receiver hooked up for sound with hdmi inputs. First go to your setup menu and go to viera link settings. From there turn viera link on, turn power on link to yes and power off link to yes. Exit from there and on your remote hit your viera tools button. Then enter the viera link menu and change the output from tv to home theater. Note that if your receiver doesn't have hdmi interoperability enabled, when you click the viera link icon it will tell you to hook up a hdmi compatible device. Let me know if works for you and what kind of receiver you are using.
Tags: Panasonic Tc P65s60 65 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic 60 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P60s60 , Panasonic Tc P55s60 55 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Tc P50s60 50 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic 42 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P42s60
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