Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepx13 View Post

Wouldn't this hinder wall mounting?

Yes and no...

google angled hdmi connector

The other connections if you use might be a problem depending on the separation from the wall, but a lot of TV's come with most of the jacks coming out the back.

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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post #1352 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaboy1234 View Post

I can't measure my box at the moment, but according to spec sheet here: http://shop.panasonic.com/docs/spec-sheet/2013/televisions/s64_series_spec-sheet.pdf

Carton Dimensions (W x H x D) 67.5” x 40.0” x 13.1”

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Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

I just measured my 65S64's carton to verify. Mine is a tad smaller than published specs. It is: 67.0" x 39.625" x 13.1"

I suspect there will be some assembly variance in large/crude cardboard shipping boxes, so I would suggest figuring on the somewhat larger published dimensions in case your TV box isn't on the small end like mine is.

Also, the Panasonic published height dimension might be while lifting taking into account the slack in the plastic side locks.

Both Panasonic flat panel TV shipping boxes I've received in the past month had at least one lifting hole (hand hold) ripped out, so I suggest care if you are delivering it yourself. If it tears and you drop it... well, just suggesting being aware of that weak spot.

mm

Thanks guys.

Well I measured my largest vehicle an 05' Explorer, and I will not be able to stand it upright. So my options are to angle it, or lay it flat or just get it delivered. What do you guys think? I am just leaning towards paying the $50 and getting it delivered.
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post #1353 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by OCMike80 View Post

Nothing. You could do that. I've had some friends do that for other things before. I was at my local sam's club (Long beach town center, CA). They had 5 65s64's and 1 60u54 in stock. I think someone else on this thread was looking into the 60u54.
I actually got to thinking that a Sam's membership for only next year could save me some money on much needed groceries and such if I split membership with my roommate. I'll probably keep the membership after all, especially hearing how the S64's filter really doesn't do much (which, for me, I like).

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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Even with the 65S64 sitting somewhat recessed under a warehouse shelf at Sam's, I still noticed a bit of reflection of the overhead lights in the distance. So I assumed they minimized the AR filtering to minimize any PQ loss. I also assumed the S60 would be horrendous in a bright room - like maybe seeing your own reflection with it on?!!!
The S60 turned off is essentially a mirror. Turned on, it's not too bad, provided you have not much more than ambient light. Any semi-strong light source will show up VERY easily.
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post #1354 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post


Thanks guys.

Well I measured my largest vehicle an 05' Explorer, and I will not be able to stand it upright. So my options are to angle it, or lay it flat or just get it delivered. What do you guys think? I am just leaning towards paying the $50 and getting it delivered.
Unless you feel lucky, or have a friend with a larger vehicle you can borrow, I'd get it delivered. Make sure you have the delivery guys stay and let you check if the TV is in good shape before signing for it. Turning it on and looking for dead pixels as well as shining a bright flashlight all around the screen to look for micro-cracks in shipping is a good idea.
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post #1355 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepx13 View Post

Wouldn't this hinder wall mounting?

Nothing that a selection of 90 degree angle adapters won't cure:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1154999/panasonic-g15/510#post_17679838

smile.gif

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post #1356 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Unless you feel lucky, or have a friend with a larger vehicle you can borrow, I'd get it delivered. Make sure you have the delivery guys stay and let you check if the TV is in good shape before signing for it. Turning it on and looking for dead pixels as well as shining a bright flashlight all around the screen to look for micro-cracks in shipping is a good idea.

Man that sounds like a major pain in the ego for either me or the delivery guy.tongue.gif

Seriously, that just sounds awkward. "Hey, do you mind sticking around while I investigate the TV." Ouch. I would be embarrassed to ask them this.

But I guess it is standard protocol?

Got to do what you gotta do huh?

Yeah, I have a small trailer and my parents have a truck. I wasn't wanting to go those routes, and was thinking the delivery would just be the easiest option.

Wonder how much would be an appropriate tip for good delivery, along with sticking around for my investigation of the TV? Might as well factor that into my shipping price. How long do you think that investigation would take?

Thanks guys
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post #1357 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Man that sounds like a major pain in the ego for either me or the delivery guy.tongue.gif

Seriously, that just sounds awkward. "Hey, do you mind sticking around while I investigate the TV." Ouch. I would be embarrassed to ask them this.

But I guess it is standard protocol?

Got to do what you gotta do huh?

Yeah, I have a small trailer and my parents have a truck. I wasn't wanting to go those routes, and was thinking the delivery would just be the easiest option.

Wonder how much would be an appropriate tip for good delivery, along with sticking around for my investigation of the TV? Might as well factor that into my shipping price. How long do you think that investigation would take?

Thanks guys

mphfrom77,

YW.
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post #1358 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

I actually got to thinking that a Sam's membership for only next year could save me some money on much needed groceries and such if I split membership with my roommate. I'll probably keep the membership after all, especially hearing how the S64's filter really doesn't do much (which, for me, I like).
The S60 turned off is essentially a mirror. Turned on, it's not too bad, provided you have not much more than ambient light. Any semi-strong light source will show up VERY easily.

El Matadurr,

Now that you've experienced the 60S60 in depth, if you decide to pull the trigger on an S64, I think your comparative input about S60 -vs- S64 would be very valuable and might put a lot of people's concerns to rest.
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post #1359 of 7199 Old 05-09-2013, 09:25 PM
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I'm very interested in this set, but I have to consider the lighting in my living room. I have a window that's giving my LED some noticeable glare, so maybe I need to look at getting some sunscreens for my windows.
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post #1360 of 7199 Old 05-10-2013, 06:06 AM
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Well I am sitting at home waiting for the big truck to pull up with my new 65s60..Moved the 4 yr old panny 50g10 out of the way..Thanks to everyone on this thread who took the time to discuss this tv and to put settings on the thread..AVS is the place to come to when u want to research a TV...Now, where is that darn truck biggrin.gif
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post #1361 of 7199 Old 05-10-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Well I measured my largest vehicle an 05' Explorer, and I will not be able to stand it upright. So my options are to angle it, or lay it flat or just get it delivered. What do you guys think? I am just leaning towards paying the $50 and getting it delivered.

Someone earlier posted that it wouldn't fit in a full size Tahoe except at an angle and didn't recommend doing that.
Also if you live in a lower tax area than your Sam's stores, the $49 shipping charge will be offset by tax savings. I saved $67 in taxes, which more than offset the shipping.

They put up a couple of 60" Vizio LCDs in a new conference room at work and during a demo this morning I was sitting directly across the room from one LCD and the glare from the florescent lights hanging over the conference table was so bad I had trouble reading the PC text on the screen. I wouldn't get the S60 mirror instead of the S64 unless it was for a man cave or you have room darkening curtains over all the windows and always turn the room lights off when viewing.
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post #1362 of 7199 Old 05-10-2013, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Man that sounds like a major pain in the ego for either me or the delivery guy.tongue.gif

Seriously, that just sounds awkward. "Hey, do you mind sticking around while I investigate the TV." Ouch. I would be embarrassed to ask them this.

But I guess it is standard protocol?

Got to do what you gotta do huh?

Yeah, I have a small trailer and my parents have a truck. I wasn't wanting to go those routes, and was thinking the delivery would just be the easiest option.

Wonder how much would be an appropriate tip for good delivery, along with sticking around for my investigation of the TV? Might as well factor that into my shipping price. How long do you think that investigation would take?

Thanks guys
Well that's their call if they make it awkward, but there's no way in hell I'd accept delivery of a (very heavy) $1500 TV without actually checking to make sure it's perfectly intact. At least when it's delivered you can hook it up to your power supply before signing. At the store, I can only do the flashlight test. Any dead pixels or bands I would find after set-up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

El Matadurr,

Now that you've experienced the 60S60 in depth, if you decide to pull the trigger on an S64, I think your comparative input about S60 -vs- S64 would be very valuable and might put a lot of people's concerns to rest. OTOH, it is always possible you might be disappointed. I doubt it & I hope not.
Will do. Only problem is the absolute earliest I'd be picking up the TV would be early August. I do hope Costco/Sam's still has stock by then.
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post #1363 of 7199 Old 05-11-2013, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Man that sounds like a major pain in the ego for either me or the delivery guy.tongue.gif

Seriously, that just sounds awkward. "Hey, do you mind sticking around while I investigate the TV." Ouch. I would be embarrassed to ask them this.

But I guess it is standard protocol?

Got to do what you gotta do huh?

Yeah, I have a small trailer and my parents have a truck. I wasn't wanting to go those routes, and was thinking the delivery would just be the easiest option.

Wonder how much would be an appropriate tip for good delivery, along with sticking around for my investigation of the TV? Might as well factor that into my shipping price. How long do you think that investigation would take?

Thanks guys

I don't see a problem with laying the tv flat. Any average road conditions will be fine. There is plenty of styrofoam in the box to keep the glass from coming into contact with anything. Think of what these things go through to get to the warehouses.

It's also a myth that the gasses in a plasma need to settle is a certain orientation or whatever nonsense.

Also, if I were to go the delivery route I wouldn't tip them at all. It's part of their job to make sure you're satisfied with the delivery.

PS. I put my 65S64 in the back of a Lincoln Navigator at about a 15 degree angle (nearly flat). Everything went fine and the picture looks awesome.
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post #1364 of 7199 Old 05-11-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

I don't see a problem with laying the tv flat. Any average road conditions will be fine. There is plenty of styrofoam in the box to keep the glass from coming into contact with anything. Think of what these things go through to get to the warehouses.
Yikes! Not a chance that I'd take with a $1500 piece of electronics.
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Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

Also, if I were to go the delivery route I wouldn't tip them at all. It's part of their job to make sure you're satisfied with the delivery.
I gave the driver who brought my 65S60 in a twenty for the extra time and help of unboxing - letting me inspect/test the set.
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Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

PS. I put my 65S64 in the back of a Lincoln Navigator at about a 15 degree angle (nearly flat). Everything went fine and the picture looks awesome.
Why didn't you lay it flat?

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post #1365 of 7199 Old 05-11-2013, 12:59 PM
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Stopped by Best Buy for a little window shopping. I asked the guy there if he wouldn't mind letting me use the remote to play with the S60's settings, and thankfully he obliged. It looked pretty dim at first, but the setting was on Standard (for some reason). I put it on Vivid and I thought it looked way better. I know I probably wouldn't keep it on Vivid if I were to buy it, but it was reassuring to see some brighter brights. It didn't look as bright as the LCDs, obviously...but I don't know....Our BB's back area was pretty dark, and the S60 just seemed kind of 'right'. Easy on the eyes, bright enough to show a wide range of contrast.

Personally, I tend to keep my computer montior on its lowest brightness, as it can get stupidly bright. I imagine that most people who complain about plasma brightness either:

a.) Have it set up in too bright a room
b.) Are too used to the more 'blinding' light of an LCD
c.) Don't have their TV settings set up properly
d.) Just have a bad panel

It's always kind of discouraging when I see the few people complain about plasma brightness...but I always see hundreds of other comments talking about how "you can't go back" and how it's basically better on every level. I'll have to trust you guys and hope that in the next several months I can get a good deal on an S60. I was disappointed that I couldn't really find the S30 at a good price anymore, so the S60 seems to be filling that gap now. Can't wait!

Edit: Regarding posterization....it will be there, no doubt, but I think when I move out, I won't be so jarringly close to the TV, and my eyesight isn't the best (my color perception is pretty up there though, as I work as an illustrator)

Edit 2: A buddy of mine is saying that I should look more into getting a TV from a couple years ago. Something like the G10. Is that really advisable? I don't want to buy a TV somewhere that I can't return it if need be. I can't really find any better plasma for gaming in this price range...unless anyone has any recommendations.
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post #1366 of 7199 Old 05-11-2013, 07:48 PM
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I will sit about 10 feet away from my next TV purchase after I wall mount it.

I'm leaning towards the 65 inch S64.

My buddy at work thought that was way too close and that I would see weird things like pixels. Or basically he thought that screen size was way to big if I was sitting that close.

Got me thinking that I really haven't done my homework regarding this issue. So I will be researching this over the next few days. I will also measure the distance...but it is about 10 feet.

If anyone has links or information regarding this topic feel free to help educate me.

Can't believe I haven't really researched it yet.
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post #1367 of 7199 Old 05-11-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

I will sit about 10 feet away from my next TV purchase after I wall mount it.

I'm leaning towards the 65 inch S64.

My buddy at work thought that was way too close and that I would see weird things like pixels. Or basically he thought that screen size was way to big if I was sitting that close.
Plain and simple, I don't think you'll have any issues at that distance.

I am planning on purchasing a 65S64 next weekend and my viewing distance is 10-12'.
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post #1368 of 7199 Old 05-11-2013, 09:03 PM
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As an FYI, at the end of the streamed Shootout tonight they left some time for internet commenters to ask questions. Since there had been debate on this thread, one of the questions I asked was whether or not an AR filter has any impact on perceivable sharpness and detail. D-Nice said flat out that it's a "myth" and Kevin Miller and David Mackenzie agreed. However, in the comparison between the otherwise identical ZT60 and VT60 it was determined that the AR coating did have an impact on peak light output. The VT60 measured a peak calibrated brightness of 35ftl while the heavier-coated ZT60 could achieve 30ftl. It was also stated that the ST60 -- which has a lighter AR coating than both -- was able to produce "twice" the amount of peak brightness that was around "60ftl." The ZT60-to-VT60 is apples-to-apples while throwing the ST60 in is introducing an orange, but one can glean from these data points that the S60 will achieve higher light output than the S64 -- and there is no disparity in sharpness/detail.
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post #1369 of 7199 Old 05-11-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

As an FYI, at the end of the streamed Shootout tonight they left some time for internet commenters to ask questions. Since there had been debate on this thread, one of the questions I asked was whether or not an AR filter has any impact on perceivable sharpness and detail. D-Nice said flat out that it's a "myth" and Kevin Miller and David Mackenzie agreed. However, in the comparison between the otherwise identical ZT60 and VT60 it was determined that the AR coating did have an impact on peak light output. The VT60 measured a peak calibrated brightness of 35ftl while the heavier-coated ZT60 could achieve 30ftl. It was also stated that the ST60 -- which has a lighter AR coating than both -- was able to produce "twice" the amount of peak brightness that was around "60ftl." The ZT60-to-VT60 is apples-to-apples while throwing the ST60 in is introducing an orange, but one can glean from these data points that the S60 will achieve higher light output than the S64 -- and there is no disparity in sharpness/detail.
From Cnet's review, the S60 was 2fl brighter than the ST60 using a windowed pattern.
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post #1370 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

I will sit about 10 feet away from my next TV purchase after I wall mount it.

I'm leaning towards the 65 inch S64.

My buddy at work thought that was way too close and that I would see weird things like pixels. Or basically he thought that screen size was way to big if I was sitting that close.

Got me thinking that I really haven't done my homework regarding this issue. So I will be researching this over the next few days. I will also measure the distance...but it is about 10 feet.

If anyone has links or information regarding this topic feel free to help educate me.

Can't believe I haven't really researched it yet.



According to this image (which I've referenced several times), you don't start seeing pixels on a 65" until you're sitting less than 8' away.

I also sit about 10' from my 65S64 and I don't see any pixels. I'm using D-Nice's ST60 settings at the moment, which can be found in the 2013 Panasonic Settings Thread.
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post #1371 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by iRONic831 View Post

Yikes! Not a chance that I'd take with a $1500 piece of electronics.
I gave the driver who brought my 65S60 in a twenty for the extra time and help of unboxing - letting me inspect/test the set.
Why didn't you lay it flat?

There were things already in the back at the time and it was a hassle to move them. People treat these things like they're made of hollow eggshells. rolleyes.gif
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post #1372 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post



According to this image (which I've referenced several times), you don't start seeing pixels on a 65" until you're sitting less than 8' away.

I also sit about 10' from my 65S64 and I don't see any pixels. I'm using D-Nice's ST60 settings at the moment, which can be found in the 2013 Panasonic Settings Thread.

Good info. Thanks for posting.
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post #1373 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 10:49 AM
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In my S64, I now have Moshock's settings in Home Theater, fairchild99's latest settings in Cinema and cadett's ST60 settings in Custom.
moshock and El Matadurr like this.
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post #1374 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

Good info. Thanks for posting. I don't see any pixels at 9 feet on my S64 and agree 8 would probably be the minimum IMHO. I'm noticing that every step up bigger in screen makes motion content errors and posterization (regardless of cause) more noticeable.
MM, I was looking at a 55S60 for a good 1/2 hour at the showroom looking for posterization, false contouring, or lack of gradations whatever. I had a hard time finding any flipping between a basketball game, a news program and a cooking show on their compromised cable feed. Maybe on some faces. Where are you seeing this and with what source?
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post #1375 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Inputlag View Post

MM, I was looking at a 55S60 for a good 1/2 hour at the showroom looking for posterization, false contouring, or lack of gradations whatever. I had a hard time finding any flipping between a basketball game, a news program and a cooking show on their compromised cable feed. Maybe on some faces. Where are you seeing this and with what source?

What I thought was posterization wasn't.
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post #1376 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 04:42 PM
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I'm not sure I'm actually seeing posterization, just what I think is that. The source is Amazon Instant Video watching Fringe. I think it is caused by the content where motion kinda' maybe freezes for a couple of frames but not very often. It happens so infrequently that I don't think it is the TV. I think it is the content. It's my understanding that streaming vid isn't necessarily the best source. Also, my PS3 is converting 720 to 1080p so I have to allow for some errors in that..??
Posterization is false color banding, which can be caused by low numbers of gradations in a TV or problems in the compression of source material. It has nothing to do with motion. smile.gif
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post #1377 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 09:01 PM
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POSTERIZATION


From CNET- I also noticed what appeared to be slightly smoother gradations on the ST60. At the 22:09 mark during "Tree of Life," the fading light from a white galaxy appeared smoother on the ST60 (and the Sony LCD) than on any of the other plasmas (including the S60), which showed visible gradation steps of minor "false contouring" or solarization. Many other similar images in this sequence of "ToL" did show visible gradations on the ST60 as well; however, they're rare in other program material on any display. It's worth noting that Panasonic touts improved gradation only on its 2013 VT60 and ZT60 models, so I'm not sure whether what I saw is related.

Lots of descriptive labels for this effect. Like I said, I couldn't really find any in the showroom. Some posters found it objectionable.
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post #1378 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 09:19 PM
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In my S64, I now have Moshock's settings in Home Theater, fairchild99's latest settings in Cinema and cadett's ST60 settings in Custom.

Question MountainMichael, where did you find all these settings? I tried looking for them in the Panasonic settings thread but I only saw Moshock's settings. Just purchased my S64 today and trying to figure out how to optimize the picture.
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post #1379 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 09:26 PM
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Thanks for the pics. Got it.

I have done a little bit a research as far as size of a HDTV and how far one should sit goes. I get the idea that the old rules went out the window when 1080p came out and that in the future it would change again with the higher resolution of 4K.

Some links...

http://reviews.cnet.com/tv-buying-guide/

http://hdguru.com/lechner-distance-the-number-you-need-to-know-before-buying-an-hdtv/21/

I thought this article was somewhat informative though it is not necessarily on topic for me...http://journal.smpte.org/content/108/5/284.full.pdf+html?sid=f79569dc-824b-4bd1-a96f-98e5732f1318 I would have liked to have found some more info from this site/organiztion, but I kind of gave up, though I might revisit it in the future.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57468333-221/how-big-a-tv-should-i-buy/...though I think they got the THX multiplier wrong as they claim a .84 multiplier and the below, more recent, YouTube video from THX uses a multiplier of .60. (inches from display x .60 = optimal diagonal inches of display)

I might do some more research but it seems somewhat subjective, and can have to do with each individuals on eyesight. IDK
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post #1380 of 7199 Old 05-12-2013, 09:30 PM
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Question MountainMichael, where did you find all these settings? I tried looking for them in the Panasonic settings thread but I only saw Moshock's settings. Just purchased my S64 today and trying to figure out how to optimize the picture.

Here's where the link for the S60 settings in fairchild99's sig takes you...http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461177/official-panasonic-s60-series-discussion-thread/1290#post_23290695
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