Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1441 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

I would take it then that line bleeding isn't that big of a deal, because I've never really heard of it up until a few days ago (not that I'm an expert). I guess my gut reaction would be that this board is probably full of the pickiest HDTV users in the world (possibly myself included), and that if they still gush over these displays, it's probably not a huge issue.

I didn't notice it on my parents' TV....but maybe I didn't notice it during the daytime? I was trying to check out certain situations (like in an old game where bright objects would be on dark backgrounds) and didn't notice anything at all. I attributed it to the TV being old, but then again, it doesn't really get very black, so maybe that's not the best candidate to look at.
It only shows up in precise examples of content, most notably that green screen before movies/previews as well as backgrounds when you turn the menu on. Rarely, if ever, happens elsewhere. The interview scene with Frozone in The Incredibles is the only example that I can think of that it pops up in "actual" content.

It's literally nothing to worry about. smile.gif
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post #1442 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 08:23 PM
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Haha, okay. I keep fearing I'm going to play some game where there's bright objects against a slightly darker background, causing a big shadow to pop up. Or like I'll be watching the Office and the blinds from the windows on the show will overlap people's faces. Sounds like it's way rarer than I'm thinking it'll be.

Which sounds way better than having a 60-120hz TV where I notice blur all the time, or have to worry about edge-lit clouding or the other umpteen issues I had to worry about when looking at LCDs. Not to say that plasma doesn't have its flaws, but they sound like flaws that I can deal with a lot better.
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post #1443 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Which sounds way better than having a 60-120hz TV where I notice blur all the time, or have to worry about edge-lit clouding or the other umpteen issues I had to worry about when looking at LCDs. Not to say that plasma doesn't have its flaws, but they sound like flaws that I can deal with a lot better.
The more people realize that, the longer plasma tech will continue.
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post #1444 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 08:39 PM
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Finally moved to my new place and got everything setup. I have it mounted on an articulating mount, and it seems to work well. I am love it so far. I do have a slight buzzing using it with my HTPC, but no worse than my last plasma. Also, I have played a few games on it, and no issues with IR. Overall I am extremely happy with it, especially for $1399.

System:
Panasonic 65" S64
PS3 and Xbox 360
Custom HTPC (i5, GTX 460,Win 8) with 2TB network drive
Pioneer VSX 1021 Receiver
Polk Monitor 60's and CS2 center
Custom 12" Subwoofer
Wireless rear speakers

Tried to grab some pictures of it. Still need to get a wire cover for the two TV wires.








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post #1445 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 08:48 PM
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Ah, Django and Pi. Love both of those movies. Good ones to start the set off right. wink.gif
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post #1446 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Ah, Django and Pi. Love both of those movies. Good ones to start the set off right. wink.gif

Indeed. I also had some from Dark Knight and Tron: Legacy, but none of the pictures looked that good on the computer. I was just going through XBMC looking for movies to use.
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post #1447 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly21029 View Post

I don't know the science behind it, but as others have stated it's inherent to plasma technology. Every plasma I've ever seen exhibits this to some degree -- even my Kuro. However, I will admit that I only see it on my television under the circumstance linked above. The green splash screen with white block lettering that appears before movie trailers seems to be the real-world content torture test for this trait. My formerly owned Panasonic G10, however, would exhibit the behavior more often -- animation being of particular concern.

Not true. Line bleed only happens on the lower end plasmas. My old UT50 had line bleed, so does the S60 but it is less intrusive now. The ST60 does not have line bleed issue at all. Also the ST60 does motion better with less "stutter" or "blur" without motion smoother on.
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post #1448 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Not true. Line bleed only happens on the lower end plasmas. My old UT50 had line bleed, so does the S60 but it is less intrusive now. The ST60 does not have line bleed issue at all.

Uh, the ST60 most definitely has line bleed. Is it a big problem? No. But I do notice it in real content from time to time. It's much less bothersome to me than the buzzing and rainbow effect, which were present to about the same degree on the two ST60s and one S60 I've had in my home. To put it in perspective, even these bothersome things are more tolerable than LCD defects like the blooming I observed on the Sony HX850 I had for a while. Turn off the edge-lit "local" dimming to get rid of the brightness fluctuations, and the phony black level was replaced by flashlighting and poor uniformity just like every other edge-lit LCD. Not to mention, that TV's menus wouldn't be available for 30 sec or more after power-on, and the thing liked to spontaneously reset (screen would go black for 10 sec or so) shortly after power-on once every week or two, which was a commonly reported problem for that set.
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post #1449 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 09:58 PM
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+1, definitely agree. My 55ST60 had line bleed at least as bad as my S64.

I don't have any perceptible buzzing or popping
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post #1450 of 7455 Old 05-15-2013, 11:30 PM
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sorry we just have to agree to disagree. I had S60 and ST60 side by side both factory setting under Home Theater mode and contrast 90 warm 1. Both were 55 inch model.

During the green screen before the movie, I can clearly see the line bleed, but not visible on the ST60. I have yet to see any line bleed on my ST60, so I guess I will continue to "not" look for it. Line bleed was one of few reason I sold my old UT50. I had hoped the S60 would be sufficient for me but in the end I still had to pay a little extra for the ST60.

Other observations: Deeper blacks on ST60. ABL fluctuation is much less severe on the ST60 as well. The input lag is noticeable on the ST60, so I wouldn't even try to game on it, but the PQ is outstanding for the money. A step above S60. I used to try to justify buying the value model too, and I know the diminishing returns in TVs.
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post #1451 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

sorry we just have to agree to disagree. I had S60 and ST60 side by side both factory setting under Home Theater mode and contrast 90 warm 1. Both were 55 inch model.

During the green screen before the movie, I can clearly see the line bleed, but not visible on the ST60. I have yet to see any line bleed on my ST60, so I guess I will continue to "not" look for it. Line bleed was one of few reason I sold my old UT50. I had hoped the S60 would be sufficient for me but in the end I still had to pay a little extra for the ST60.

Other observations: Deeper blacks on ST60. ABL fluctuation is much less severe on the ST60 as well. The input lag is noticeable on the ST60, so I wouldn't even try to game on it, but the PQ is outstanding for the money. A step above S60. I used to try to justify buying the value model too, and I know the diminishing returns in TVs.

For the 65" I'd say $1000 is more than just "a little extra".
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post #1452 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 05:46 AM
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I refuse to buy 65 inch unless its 4k. I don't have a mansion smile.gif
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post #1453 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

I refuse to buy 65 inch unless its 4k. I don't have a mansion smile.gif
Finally, a perk of not having excellent vision.I have a pair of glasses, but I usually do not even wear them since its not that bad. The 65" makes it a lot better to read text and other small items on the TV.
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post #1454 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 12:33 PM
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Gents,

This thread has been most helpful. My appreciation all around; your various opinions helped convince me to buy the 65" version (which is fairly glorious; replaced a 42" Panasonic plasma and has given a new meaning to term "home theater").

I prepped the panel (100 hours of D-Nice slides), and used Fairchild's, D-Nice's, and CNet's settings and have been extremely happy with the PQ. That being said...

...What would you gentlemen suggest for Xbox 360/PS3 settings? Some permutation of "standard" with pixel orbiter turned on?

I'm curious as to what the collective opinion would be for a general "gaming calibration" re: settings on this panel (I've recently fallen back in love with BF3), so any input would be appreciated.

Thank ya kindly in advance.
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post #1455 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AceofBen View Post

Gents,

This thread has been most helpful. My appreciation all around; your various opinions helped convince me to buy the 65" version (which is fairly glorious; replaced a 42" Panasonic plasma and has given a new meaning to term "home theater").

I prepped the panel (100 hours of D-Nice slides), and used Fairchild's, D-Nice's, and CNet's settings and have been extremely happy with the PQ. That being said...

...What would you gentlemen suggest for Xbox 360/PS3 settings? Some permutation of "standard" with pixel orbiter turned on?

I'm curious as to what the collective opinion would be for a general "gaming calibration" re: settings on this panel (I've recently fallen back in love with BF3), so any input would be appreciated.

Thank ya kindly in advance.
To my knowledge, D-Nice hasn't posted his settings for the S60 either here or at HDJ. Curious when he'll get around to it.

For games, I typically just use the same settings across the board. Fairchild's latest round looks to be great for games, with more "pop" than before. Unless you have a static, non-translucent HUD (again, Bioshock Infinite...), leave pixel orbiter off. I believe BF3's many HUD's are all semi-translucent. You should be fine.
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post #1456 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 02:09 PM
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Considering the S60 has no Game Mode (and presumably input lag is identical across all picture modes), the best settings for games, at least from a picture quality perspective, will be the same best settings for watching TV and movies. Of course, brightness and contrast will have to be adjusted according to the viewing environment and personal preference, but in terms of greyscale, color gamut, gamma, etc., the best settings will be identical or near identical across devices. Make sure the 360 and PS3 are set to 1080p output. Turn off display discovery on the 360. Turn pixel orbiter off.

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post #1457 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 02:22 PM
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Do the AR filters affect horizontal off-axis viewing? Our receptionist has an aftermarket glare filter on her LCD monitor and the screen looks black until you are directly behind it.
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post #1458 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 03:01 PM
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Do the AR filters affect horizontal off-axis viewing? Our receptionist has an aftermarket glare filter on her LCD monitor and the screen looks black until you are directly behind it.
No, but they do affect vertical viewing angles.
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post #1459 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 03:06 PM
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I just picked up the 42" version @ Sears for $399
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05775142000P

Panasonic 42'' Class Smart Viera® S60 Series 1080p 600HZ Plasma HDTV - TC-P42S60

eek.gif I paid $659.99 for mine a few weeks ago!!! Damn, I need to call about a price adjustment!

NHT speakers, Denon 4520, Panasonic 65VT50, DUAL PSA XS30SE's
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post #1460 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 03:45 PM
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eek.gif I paid $659.99 for mine a few weeks ago!!! Damn, I need to call about a price adjustment!

I had paid $659.99 from Amazon a few weeks ago as well. I called them up and they gave me a price adjustment down to $469. You should definitely call them. They wouldn't match the $399 with local pickup at the store, but they matched the $399+$69 shipping that Sears is charging. I also went to Amazon's page and posted where they let you give them feedback of lower prices elsewhere and they then lowered their price to $469 yesterday.

I wish they would have lowered my price to $399, but I am still pretty happy with what they credited back to me!
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post #1461 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 03:56 PM
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No, but they do affect vertical viewing angles.

Has anyone noticed if that affects your view standing up verses sitting down? A large percentage of the viewing will be from across the living/dining room behind my kitchen bar at (I'm guessing) a 45 degree angle offset.

I just hope the AR filter helps with afternoon sunlight from the 3 large west windows to the side of the TV (I think they're all 48" wide and about the same height with one upper level window that goes up to the vaulted ceiling).

I've been reading back through all the pages and noticed Fairchild didn't run slides, so looks like I'll be OK with just normal viewing for the break-in period. Do I need to keep my set on standard settings during the break-in, or is it OK to change D-Nice or CNET's calibrated settings early on?
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post #1462 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 04:05 PM
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@HDtimeshifter, I mostly kept the contrast at like 70-80 and I believe I originally used custom for the first few 50 or so hours, then I did my first few calibration using my older meter which was less accurate (an X-rite i1Display 2). The subsequent calibrations were performed at over 100 hours, 200 hours, 400 hours or so was the last posted ones. I didn't do any slides, just used it as I normally do, but just didn't do any marathon sessions using anything that would cause IR. (such as viewing the entire LOTR or Harry Potter series in sequence because of the black bars, or play a game for tons of hours in a row etc...)

I'm going to do another calibration soon with APL 10% window patterns from the GCD disc and see how that comes out (as always I use 100% color patterns) and will be of course using my Colormunki Photo (spectrometer) since the i1D2 is in retirement. I know I can profile it to the spectro, but since I don't get 10-pt adjustments it's kind of pointless to try to adjust the low-end 10-20 IRE with just the 2-pt that this display offers.
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Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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post #1463 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 04:19 PM
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Was checking the S60 out again at Best Buy. A great looking display. Even in its darker settings, I could tell just how full and rich its colors looked compared to TVs in a similar price range.

The ABL was pretty offensive in the setting that it was on at the store. How offensive is it really, in normal viewing at home, after C.A.T.S is turned off? Really, some of their promo videos looked absolutely awful. The screen looked like the whites would get cut in half at times.
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post #1464 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

The ABL was pretty offensive in the setting that it was on at the store. How offensive is it really, in normal viewing at home, after C.A.T.S is turned off? Really, some of their promo videos looked absolutely awful. The screen looked like the whites would get cut in half at times.

The ABL is not that bad to be honest. Unless you go looking for it by running several tests that will exploit it, you shouldn't be able to notice it much once it's settings are tuned in properly. It was probably in Vivid mode would be my guess. You have to make sure to turn off CATS in the mode AND in the ECO settings. Then turn it to Cinema or Custom and configure appropriately.

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
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post #1465 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 04:48 PM
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LOL, why you so mad? Besides, did you ever bother to turn off C.A.T.S.? That's easily the 1 feature that will kill any white content. My ST60 is nice and bright and I'm sure the S60 is just the same when configured properly.

What's CATS? They talk about it a few times on this page.
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post #1466 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 06:39 PM
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What's CATS? They talk about it a few times on this page.
Contrast Automatic Tracking System
Basically, it detects ambient light and adjusts the brightness "accordingly". It's rubbish if you can control your room's lighting.
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post #1467 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 09:05 PM
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I've finally been told of a Utah Costco with the 65S64 in stock, 30 minutes away from my house. A guy at the Costco near my house looked it up for me. The price he quoted was $100 more than the price on the website, negating shipping costs, so it might be easier to go with that and not worry about finding a car to fit it in.
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post #1468 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 10:39 PM
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Sorry if this has been said, I think it was briefly mentioned in the ST60 thread but not here.

Does watching hockey suck due to the ABL feature? And is it possible to disable ABL?

Thanks
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post #1469 of 7455 Old 05-16-2013, 10:56 PM
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I am no expert but I believe the ABL cannot be disabled because if it did the tv would self destruct.
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post #1470 of 7455 Old 05-17-2013, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Contrast Automatic Tracking System
Basically, it detects ambient light and adjusts the brightness "accordingly". It's rubbish if you can control your room's lighting.

Wow, coincidentally I was reading page 34 and came across the subject of CATS and posted my question just 20 minutes after Fairchild mentioned it again.
Anyway, what's the difference between CATS and ABL? They sound very similar to me.

Also I don't suppose you can turn off Eco mode completely? In the LGPA6500 thread (first plasma I was considering), they say the first thing to do is turn off the Eco mode. (Sorry if this is all covered in the manual, but I haven't had time to look at it - hope to study it this weekend.)
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