Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 7067 Old 05-21-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

If you have a power outage or unplug it during a thunderstorm, do you loose all your custom calibration settings? Is there a way to save your settings to a USB drive instead of having to hand write them all down on paper?
No, you don't loose most, if not all, settings.

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post #1622 of 7067 Old 05-21-2013, 03:51 PM
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I had purchased the 55st60, the picture quality and black levels were outstanding, I was really impressed at first, but whenever there was movement on the screen, it seems like my eyes could not handle this and it would be very straining, this TV was making me feel nauseous, not only me but friends and family members, it would be worse when putting motion enhancement on. Movement is not natural even with motion enhancement off, everything seems fast foward. I am not sure but I think this is caused by the 2500 focused field drive, for this reason I am considering getting the s60 which doesn't have that technology. Does any body else have this problem??
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post #1623 of 7067 Old 05-21-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Danny514 View Post

I had purchased the 55st60, the picture quality and black levels were outstanding, I was really impressed at first, but whenever there was movement on the screen, it seems like my eyes could not handle this and it would be very straining, this TV was making me feel nauseous, not only me but friends and family members, it would be worse when putting motion enhancement on. Movement is not natural even with motion enhancement off, everything seems fast foward. I am not sure but I think this is caused by the 2500 focused field drive, for this reason I am considering getting the s60 which doesn't have that technology. Does any body else have this problem??

Disable Motion Smoothing. Or return the ST60, save a bunch of money, and pick up an S60. wink.gif
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post #1624 of 7067 Old 05-21-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by storneo View Post

I have uVerse for TV service. I am unable to use the "surround sound" mode on the DVR as an audio output option because sound does not play through the TV speakers. After AT&T coming out multiple times and many hours researching, it appears this is the fault of the TV. The S64 is not able to process that signal. So, I have to switch to that mode only when I use my AV receiver. This is a minor inconvenience, but it is an issue. I'm not sure why ALL TV's would not process this signal out-of-the-box in 2013?

In an earlier post I explained that the sound source (in this case your AT&T uVerse DVR) gets it's instruction as to what sound to send (2.0 or 5.1) from the sink device it is connected to (the display) via HDMI. I assume that in your case that you have the S60 connected to the DVR via HDMI and have the optical out of the DVR connected to your AV Receiver.

I have found that some DVR designs (like the Cisco 8742 that I have from Time Warner) treat the optical out separately from the HDMI audio command, so I don't run into the problem that you have. But I have found that other DVRs on other cable systems behave differently and have the optical out follow what the HDMI signal from the sink commands. Most all displays force the sound source to send 2.0, as their internal speakers are only 2 channel. The problem that you experience is not unique to the S60 or to Panasonic - it is really due to the design of your DVR.

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post #1625 of 7067 Old 05-21-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny514 View Post

I had purchased the 55st60, the picture quality and black levels were outstanding, I was really impressed at first, but whenever there was movement on the screen, it seems like my eyes could not handle this and it would be very straining, this TV was making me feel nauseous, not only me but friends and family members, it would be worse when putting motion enhancement on. Movement is not natural even with motion enhancement off, everything seems fast foward. I am not sure but I think this is caused by the 2500 focused field drive, for this reason I am considering getting the s60 which doesn't have that technology. Does any body else have this problem??

Danny,

Filming motion errors are much more noticeable the bigger the screen is.
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post #1626 of 7067 Old 05-21-2013, 07:10 PM
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IDRick,

The Ideal-Lume bias lamp is a 13 watt tubular fluorescent lamp reportedly having a custom made to order tube to produce a true actual reference color of 6500k. Depending on distance to wall and other variables, the lighting may need to be reduced or aimed up or down.

The tubular shutter is a clear plastic tube that fits over the fluorescent bulb with half of that tube blacked out. It allows instant reduction of light output and can also be used to aim or shade the upper portion so there is a soft fade on the ceiling versus a sharp line. The slip on plastic tube is simply rotated to change the effect. I think it is also there because fluorescent lamps typically cannot be dimmed for adjustment.

There are probably other reasons for it, I'm not a bias lighting expert.

Having said all of that, Mark's LED setup sure looks like a real 6500k to me - and a nicely adjustable effect, IMHO.

I initially had the lamp/panel in front of a wall that is kind of marbled tan. Changing the wall with a set of curtains to make it neutral grey maybe made some improvement, but not as much as I was expecting - at least to my eye.

In a few bias lighting threads, some suggest a neutral white or grey background, but I can't say how important that necessarily is. To me, having bias lighting was important; the color of the wall, not so much. Opinions will vary.

Thanks MM! good info!
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post #1627 of 7067 Old 05-21-2013, 07:12 PM
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Thanks MM! good info!

YW. Glad it was of help.
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post #1628 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

I'm still surprised they're selling the thing for only $400.

You have to hit the keys repeatedly to get different letters, sort of like texting on old phones.
I just checked and those prices are now gone.

Thanks for your help EM. I had no problem setting up my wi-fi connection as there was a virtual keyboard on screen. Logging in to Netflix however doesn't give any options to input letters. I have a keyboard I can try, that's if I ever get that far. Netflix just spins trying to load but then times out mostly before that point. As do all the other services.
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post #1629 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Inputlag View Post

I just checked and those prices are now gone.

Thanks for your help EM. I had no problem setting up my wi-fi connection as there was a virtual keyboard on screen. Logging in to Netflix however doesn't give any options to input letters. I have a keyboard I can try, that's if I ever get that far. Netflix just spins trying to load but then times out mostly before that point. As do all the other services.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding your issue but I just tried to log into netflix and as soon as I hit the member login button hte full keyboard came up on my 50" s60. Also whenever I put the cursor in either the login or password field and hit OK, it also comes up just fine.

Is the 42" different?
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post #1630 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 06:56 AM
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These settings look good but i feel like the picture has too much red in it

Probably panel variance. Using posted settings don't always work, but they can be a good starting point.

Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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post #1631 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 08:08 AM
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Well, I finally had time to run by best buy last night to look at some sets. I haven't done more than take a quick glance at tvs in person in about 8 years, when I bought my Hitachi crt rear projection unit.
I really wanted to compare the Samsung leds with the panny plasmas, but they were running them from different sources, so that was out of the question.

But, they had an open box 50st60 running Skyfall on an old Sony blu ray player, and I was blown away. All we did was turn off the extra processing, put it on 60hz, and changed the preset color mode. I was amazed with the quality, and I'm sure it would be even better with some more tweaking. I didn't even want to leave, I was so enthralled with the picture.

I'm still planning on doing some direct comparison at a magnolia hi-Fi BB, but I'm almost certain I'm going to end up with the S60 (or even the S64)

Thanks to everyone who's been giving so much awesome info in this thread.
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post #1632 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

Sorry if I am misunderstanding your issue but I just tried to log into netflix and as soon as I hit the member login button hte full keyboard came up on my 50" s60. Also whenever I put the cursor in either the login or password field and hit OK, it also comes up just fine.

Is the 42" different?
Yeah, I didn't get the keyboard after hitting the member login button, only when setting up wi-fi. I will try hitting the OK button before typing the next time I ever get that far. I was hoping I could use my iMac's built-in wi-fi but may have to invest in a router and hard wire an ethernet cable in. I know people with tablets and phones have successfully used it's wi-fi connection but something is not playing nice.
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post #1633 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 10:59 AM
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So I got my 65S64 delivered exactly a week ago to the hour, but haven't had the chance to move and dispose of my old 34" CRT so that I can move my new plasma onto the A/V stand (having my clothes dryer motor die and having to shop for a new one didn't help things, but hope when they deliver, install, and haul away the old dryer, they might also haul away my old dryer - I also found out that if you can drop off your old CRT at Best Buy and they will recycle for free, so my last resort would be to get my friend to help load it onto his SUV and drop it off there).

I plan to run all factory defaults for probably one night and break-in the set with normal viewing without running slides and then change the following settings one at a time and record before/after observations in the following order:
1 - turn off Pixel orbiter
2 - turn off ECO (power savings)
2 - turn off CATS
4 - set picture mode to Cinema (cycle through Standard, Vivid, and Home theater first to see how each look in comparison)

One thing I don't understand is how the side bars (watching SD or non-16:9 scale movies) causes IR. I thought if they are pretty dark, there is little to no light being emitted. I thought the brighter images are what causes burn-in.
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post #1634 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post


One thing I don't understand is how the side bars (watching SD or non-16:9 scale movies) causes IR. I thought if they are pretty dark, there is little to no light being emitted. I thought the brighter images are what causes burn-in.
The problem is that the 4:3 part of the image is aging the phosphors while the black bar area does not. You want them (particularly when the display is new) to age evenly. Frankly, slides are a way to control the evenness of the aging, but their are other ways to go. Back in the analog days, just tuning to a blank channel (snow) would suffice, but today's sets won't show snow. What I have done is to run the display for 4-5 days tuned to a channel that broadcasts mostly HD AND set the SCREEN FORMAT to SIDE CUT ZOOM. That blows the image up so that bottom banners and 4:3 side bars (or scope movie top & bottom bars) don't show.
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post #1635 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 11:54 AM
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The problem is that the 4:3 part of the image is aging the phosphors while the black bar area does not. You want them (particularly when the display is new) to age evenly. Frankly, slides are a way to control the evenness of the aging, but their are other ways to go. Back in the analog days, just tuning to a blank channel (snow) would suffice, but today's sets won't show snow. What I have done is to run the display for 4-5 days tuned to a channel that broadcasts mostly HD AND set the SCREEN FORMAT to SIDE CUT ZOOM. That blows the image up so that bottom banners and 4:3 side bars (or scope movie top & bottom bars) don't show.

Oh, I see. I think I'll watch TV as normal and try leaving it on and running slides when I'm not home. I've been so busy lately that at and average of 3 hours / 5 days / week viewing, it would take 20 weeks to reach the recommended 300 hours burn-in. I assume people are downloading the slides to a USB drive and running them off the USB port? Can someone post a link to where these slides (D-nice's?) are?
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post #1636 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Oh, I see. I think I'll watch TV as normal and try leaving it on and running slides when I'm not home. I've been so busy lately that at and average of 3 hours / 5 days / week viewing, it would take 20 weeks to reach the recommended 300 hours burn-in. I assume people are downloading the slides to a USB drive and running them off the USB port? Can someone post a link to where these slides (D-nice's?) are?

Here ya' go.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread

I think most people use a USB pen drive. I did and I had no problems getting that to work. Make the proper picture settings, then plug in the usb stick, push the media player button on your TV remote, go to pictures, make proper settings there as well, then slide show and you're off! I might have a couple steps backwards, but it's intuitive and you'll see where to go.

Please note: CATS in the picture menu and in the eco menu should be off for slides. Eco energy save should also be OFF for slides - plus the other settings D-Nice specs in post 1 of the above linked thread. The slides are located in that first post, too.

If your USB pen drive gives problems getting the slides running, El Matadurr has covered how to get around most of those hassles - earlier in this thread and in AVJ.
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post #1637 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 03:38 PM
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Hi, I'm a new owner of the 42" version that Sears.com was selling for $399. I wanted to share my solution for the circuit board/transformer buzz that originates from the back. The back panel has no sound insulating properties so I purchased foam adhesive used for computers and covered the entire inner portion of the back panel. I covered all the ventilation holes except for the ones on top and bottom. Temperature will likely rise, but I predict it'll still be within tolerable levels since the top and bottom ventilation holes are more important for air flow (hot air expands and rises up, not horizontally, and cooler is drawn from the bottom). You can test this theory by watching TV for a few hours and notice that only the top back panel is hot. Anyway, this almost completely removed the electronic noise coming from the transformers. This is the material I used: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040JHMH6/
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post #1638 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 03:42 PM
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S64 pics





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post #1639 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

URL=http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread]http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread[/URL]

I think most people use a USB pen drive. I did and I had no problems getting that to work. Make the proper picture settings, then plug in the usb stick, push the media player button on your TV remote, go to pictures, make proper settings there as well, then slide show and you're off! I might have a couple steps backwards, but it's intuitive and you'll see where to go.

Please note: CATS in the picture menu and in the eco menu should be off for slides. Eco energy save should also be OFF for slides - plus the other settings D-Nice specs in post 1 of the above linked thread. The slides are located in that first post, too.

If your USB pen drive gives problems getting the slides running, El Matadurr has covered how to get around most of those hassles - earlier in this thread and in AVJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice 
"*****Note: This procedure is designed to prepare your display for the reference settings listed for each 2013 North American Panasonic model below by aging all pixels equally with the same content. This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention.*****"

I thought break-in is to prevent IR and burn-in by aging all the pixels equally. So I don't understand the above statement. Are we supposed to break-in by watching normal content for hundreds of hours, then run slides another hundreds of hours before using his reference settings???
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post #1640 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post


I thought break-in is to prevent IR and burn-in by aging all the pixels equally. So I don't understand the above statement. Are we supposed to break-in by watching normal content for hundreds of hours, then run slides another hundreds of hours before using his reference settings???

Edited for clutter.

Opinions vary. The way I see it: Running the first 100 hours of all slides would be for someone hoping to get their panel looking as close as possible to the one D-Nice calibrated. However, D-Nice hasn't posted a calibration for the S60's yet.

fairchild99's calibrations are the best I've seen on my S64 so far. fc99 didn't use slides for break in, fwiw.
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post #1641 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post


I thought break-in is to prevent IR and burn-in by aging all the pixels equally. So I don't understand the above statement. Are we supposed to break-in by watching normal content for hundreds of hours, then run slides another hundreds of hours before using his reference settings???
That's what D-Nice would have you believe.

Frankly, today's plasma sets are a lot less prone to permanent damage due to uneven break-in then they used to be.

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post #1642 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 05:13 PM
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I plan on watching TV like I normally do, but try to avoid non-full screen content with black bars. One problem is, usually not getting home until late night after the news, I tend to watch the news repeats like 247 (Channel 7 news repeat cycle), which is 4:3 SD. I tended to leave my old CRT on once I got home because of my Denon AVR bug with DVI-HDMI which required a PITA few minutes of going through the cable box menu settings every time to set to HDMI/L-PCM for proper picture and sound - and that often meant leaving it on that 247 channel even when I left the room for hours to do something else. Hopefully removing the DVI connection of my old CRT means I can simply turn the S64 off whenever I leave the room.

I'm thinking adding the slides when I'm not watching content will help break-in quicker. Otherwise at an average of 3 hours/day for 5 days/week will take 20 weeks to get 300 hours. eek.gif
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post #1643 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

That's what D-Nice would have you believe.

Frankly, today's plasma sets are a lot less prone to permanent damage due to uneven break-in then they used to be.
But the risk is still there. Seeing as most people that come onto this forum care to make their picture as perfect as possible, strategies such as break-in via slides are pretty helpful.
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post #1644 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 05:19 PM
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Running slides is kinda pointless unless you are trying to get the set to 100-300 hours as fast as possible to then have it calibrated. (either by copying a calibrator's settings or having the set calibrated yourself through a Pro or DIY)

I didn't see the point in running slides to get 100 hours asap to then calibrate it myself. Therefore I just used it as normal aside from having some variance in content while being aware of IR issues from my previous plasma. Just enjoy your new shiny TV while using a proper picture mode such as Custom or Cinema with Contrast at around 80. (I would at the very least though pop in a calibration disc or MP4/MKV's to get the Brightness setting dialed in properly)
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Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings

Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings

HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT150 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60

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post #1645 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

But the risk is still there. Seeing as most people that come onto this forum care to make their picture as perfect as possible, strategies such as break-in via slides are pretty helpful.
There is a certain amount of folly in thinking that the slides are the magic bullet to make "reference settings" work. There is enough variation from set to set such that those settings may take the set further from standards.

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post #1646 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 06:15 PM
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I thought break-in is to prevent IR and burn-in by aging all the pixels equally. So I don't understand the above statement.
You have been misled. There is absolutely no reason to think that when DNice specifically states that it is not the case.
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post #1647 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 06:20 PM
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That's what D-Nice would have you believe.
Totally and utterly incorrect. If he wanted you to believe that slides would prevent ir/burn in then why would he specifically post that they do not?
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post #1648 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 06:55 PM
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Running slides is kinda pointless unless you are trying to get the set to 100-300 hours as fast as possible to then have it calibrated. (either by copying a calibrator's settings or having the set calibrated yourself through a Pro or DIY)

I didn't see the point in running slides to get 100 hours asap to then calibrate it myself. Therefore I just used it as normal aside from having some variance in content while being aware of IR issues from my previous plasma. Just enjoy your new shiny TV while using a proper picture mode such as Custom or Cinema with Contrast at around 80. (I would at the very least though pop in a calibration disc or MP4/MKV's to get the Brightness setting dialed in properly)

Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

There is a certain amount of folly in thinking that the slides are the magic bullet to make "reference settings" work. There is enough variation from set to set such that those settings may take the set further from standards.

To each their own. smile.gif
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post #1649 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post


To each their own. smile.gif

Agreed.

My ST60 had red push I couldn't resolve, so I'd decided on a pro calibration. Then it developed problems and had to be returned. So maybe the panel variation there was due to the defect?

My S64 has no bad habits I can see; I'm liking it a LOT as is.
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post #1650 of 7067 Old 05-22-2013, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

Agreed.

My ST60 had red push I couldn't resolve, so I'd decided on a pro calibration. Then it developed problems and had to be returned. So maybe the panel variation there was due to the defect?

My S64 has no bad habits I can see; I'm liking it a LOT as is. However, I've seen enough opinions from respected AVS members to believe that I may be missing a significant amount of the panel's potential. Unless I get it calibrated, I suppose I won't really know.. ?

It'd probably cost me an arm and a leg to get a pro calibrator out to the goat trail I live on, so unless something changes, this one is excellent as is. My ST60 wouldn't have been. So maybe I've seen one of each scenario..

Or you could buy a Xrite i1 Display LT off ebay for super cheap and do a cal yourself using HCFR plus Curt Palme's calibration guide?
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