Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 64 - AVS Forum
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post #1891 of 7070 Old 06-02-2013, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

FWIW I think you can just put the MP4 versions of the files on a USB disk under a folder called VIDEO in the root of the disk and the PS3 will play them back. No burning required.

Moonchilde,

Thanks for the info!
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post #1892 of 7070 Old 06-02-2013, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

FWIW I think you can just put the MP4 versions of the files on a USB disk under a folder called VIDEO in the root of the disk and the PS3 will play them back. No burning required.

Do you know if you can simply plug that USB into the TV and have it play back? It would be a lot simpler than messing with burning discs.

MountainMichael, I think the hash is the checksum for the disc bits that the burning programs use to verify a good copy. I run Linux on most of my PCs at home and a few years ago when I tried to burn a disc with the newest Ubuntu Linux release with my disc copy program, it completed, but the disc failed to load when I tried to upgrade. Since then, I always make sure I verify the hash checksum - apparently with music CDs, a bad bit is handled ok with error correction, but on software it can cause a fatal failure.

I do have a Higlander DVD with THX calibration on one of the menus. I'll run that when I get a chance, then try the AVCHD709 later on.

I took some photos of my set on Saturday around 6:30 pm when I noticed quite a bit of window blind reflection on my screen. The reflections were distracting, but did not wash out the picture so bad as to make it unviewable like on my old CRT. The photos make the reflection look 10 times worse than it really is - I guess the camera focuses on the reflected slats of light rather than the TV content. I still want to make some A/B comparisons and take photos of BD content at night vs. during daylight. In any case the reflections are noticeable - an S60 might be unwatchable in comparison - lucky for me, the 60U50 sold out before I could buy one as it had no AR filter either.
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post #1893 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 08:58 AM
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Folks,

Thanks to all the info in this thread, I ordered the S64 from Costco at the weekend.

I had previously been salivating over the ST60 after reading the CNET review, but the TV will be used quite a bit for gaming and I did not want to deal with the lag issue. I then moved to the S60, and was a bit wary of the pic quality compared to the ST60, but after reading all your posts it sounds like it will be more than fine for me. I currently have a Samsung 50A550 (which this TV will replace), and Samsung 64D550 (which I 'hacked' to get the 10 point calibration). Both TVs provide excellent pic quality in my opinion so I have no doubt I will be happy with the S64. I did not need the AR (neither of my current TVs have it - I barely notice reflections when the TV is on), but the Costco price, plus extended warranty deal, was too good to pass up.

Interestingly enough, I paid around $2200 in 2008 for the 50", around $1800 in 2011 for the 64", and now $1400 for the 65". biggrin.gif

Thanks again for all the info.

Cheers,

Rob
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post #1894 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by copster30 View Post

Folks,

Thanks to all the info in this thread, I ordered the S64 from Costco at the weekend.

I had previously been salivating over the ST60 after reading the CNET review, but the TV will be used quite a bit for gaming and I did not want to deal with the lag issue. I then moved to the S60, and was a bit wary of the pic quality compared to the ST60, but after reading all your posts it sounds like it will be more than fine for me. I currently have a Samsung 50A550 (which this TV will replace), and Samsung 64D550 (which I 'hacked' to get the 10 point calibration). Both TVs provide excellent pic quality in my opinion so I have no doubt I will be happy with the S64. I did not need the AR (neither of my current TVs have it - I barely notice reflections when the TV is on), but the Costco price, plus extended warranty deal, was too good to pass up.

Interestingly enough, I paid around $2200 in 2008 for the 50", around $1800 in 2011 for the 64", and now $1400 for the 65". biggrin.gif

Thanks again for all the info.

Cheers,

Rob

I only have the 50" but as long as you aren't obsessively picky about the dithering and buzzing from the tv (and in my case the bezel making noises :P) then you will be thrilled by the PQ of even the lowly s60 series.

So much better than lcd. No black light bleed, no un-uniformity, no off angle issues, amazing blacks. Just make sure to take the proper precautions! its worth it!
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post #1895 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

I only have the 50" but as long as you aren't obsessively picky about the dithering and buzzing from the tv (and in my case the bezel making noises :P) then you will be thrilled by the PQ of even the lowly s60 series.

So much better than lcd. No black light bleed, no un-uniformity, no off angle issues, amazing blacks. Just make sure to take the proper precautions! its worth it!

Oh, I should have pointed out these were also plasmas. I never had the issues with buzzing that some have mentioned; although maybe my hearing doesn't pick it up. I did try an LCD once (Sharp 60"), and felt the picture was far from plasma quality so I will stick with plasmas as long as they keep making them (or other technology catches up). It says something that the top 4 TVs for PQ on CNET are plasmas.
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post #1896 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 04:00 PM
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If you guys have not seen cnets new lag results it is a little interesting.http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/.

Edit- how's this link
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post #1897 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Do you know if you can simply plug that USB into the TV and have it play back? It would be a lot simpler than messing with burning discs.

You could, and probably should. However, you'll only be able to calibrate the apps mode that way, it won't affect the other inputs like HDMI or Component. You'll have to still do a cal for those, although if you get it right on the apps menu you could write down the settings and copy them over to the other inputs.
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post #1898 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

You could, and probably should. However, you'll only be able to calibrate the apps mode that way, it won't affect the other inputs like HDMI or Component. You'll have to still do a cal for those, although if you get it right on the apps menu you could write down the settings and copy them over to the other inputs.

Not that I want to be in apps mode to calibrate it, but doesn't the copy settings function work in this mode?
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post #1899 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 04:36 PM
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I'm not sure everything copies over, I recall having to change some settings while some settings remained the same as other modes.
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post #1900 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 06:29 PM
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Quick question. How do I reset the netlix app on the s64? I set it up last night and accidentally set it up with an old expired account. It took the login credentials and wants mr to "restart" the old subscription and I can't a get back to here I can enter my new account. There has to be a way to re-enter without resetting the tv right???


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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post #1901 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 06:47 PM
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HDTimeShifter,

Using a USB drive with the mp4 file of the AVSHD 709 sounds like a good idea.

Some of the reasons I wanted to have the test screens at the source: My new AVR supposedly affects video a step or two darker even with all processing turned off. Likewise, PS3's are apparently not necessarily totally consistent. Various video settings possible in the PS3 are just one reason..

edit: Now that I think about it, the mp4 file on USB tested in the PS3's usb port and then in the TV's usb port might be the best a/b comparo..
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post #1902 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

If you guys have not seen cnets new lag results it is a little interesting.

http://www.cnet.com/news/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/57587317

Not sure if I can get the link to post correctly from my phone...sorry. Maybe someone can help.
Link doesn't work, but looked the post up on Google. Good read, and further confirmation that I'm never going over to the ST60 input lag thread again. People can argue over subjectivity all they want, but now that multiple sources have OBJECTIVE numbers on input lag measurements, there's no reason to proclaim "The ST60 is just as good for games as the S60". Good to hear.
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post #1903 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 08:22 PM
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post #1904 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 08:22 PM
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For sure this is in response to all the disappointment over the ST60

Surprised the F8500 is so high!
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post #1905 of 7070 Old 06-03-2013, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copster30 View Post

For sure this is in response to all the disappointment over the ST60

Surprised the F8500 is so high!

PC mode is about 55 ms or so. Still 4 to 5 frames, so it's on par with the ST60 in game mode. I've owned both, and still own the F8500.
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post #1906 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 08:12 AM
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Great to see those input lag results.


/inb4WaveBoyasksforacomponentcabletest tongue.gif


Does BJs carry the S64 as well, or is it only CostCo and Sam's Club? When I move out in the fall, I believe I'll be in close proximity to a BJs.
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post #1907 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 09:48 AM
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Its always good to be close to BJs.
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No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
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post #1908 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 10:12 AM
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Bezel screws & popping - my experience so far:

A couple of inmates here suggested loosening the bezel screws to where they are just snug. My S64's popping was progressing a bit but not nearly to where I would return it. But I was obsessing about it so I figured I'd check the screws.

Among other things, I was a mechanic for several years and obtained my ASE master certs. In that light, here are my observations:

The tightness of the screws varied wildly and at random. No rhyme or reason as to the locations:

1 screw was 3 turns out from tight.

2 screws were loose - not seated.

3 screws were way excessively tight to where I wondered if the head would strip or the screw might twist off. This causes me to believe they were installed with impact or "rattle-wrench" type drivers. 1 of those 3 was insanely over-tight. As in, wrap a rag around the screwdriver handle for traction... and "CRACK!" when the screw broke loose but thankfully didn't twist off. These small screws must be made of some kind of unobtainium steel 'cause that one felt an awful lot like 60 inch pounds! eek.gif I'm amazed it didn't strip during assembly. Looks to me like Panny could use to do a seminar for their assembly techs on how to properly set a torque limiter; assuming their drivers even have them.

Some screws seemed to me to be "merely very tight" for very small screws like these. Some were right at contact plus "snug".

As previously suggested, I put them all at contact (bezel seated if it had bowed up when loose) plus "snug" or maybe just a 'guestimated' added 2 inch pounds.

I noted in the area where I think the popping was coming from, there was 1 over-tight screw and a loose one. I don't really think that means very much.

When the tight screws would crack loose, the back panel sheet metal would resonate. This sound was identical to the tone and timbre of most of the popping. I heard 2 mild pops this a.m. when the TV was cooling after shutdown. So with power off, I agree with what El Matadurr said: What my TV is doing is not the power board.

I had to hold quite a bit of opposing force on the bezel to prevent stripping the screw heads on the 3 super tight ones. I could have used my Ryobi impact driver to get them loose without doing that, but chose not to. So now I have fingerprints all over the bezel. rolleyes.gif No big deal; easily cleaned up with I'm figuring a fine/clean micro-fiber cloth and distilled water.

I'll report back on popping in a week or so. Regardless, I won't be going back to over-tight on any of the screws.

If anyone else does this, do it at your own risk because of the above wild variations. You might damage a screw head or twist one off. Likewise, opposing force if not done right could lead to cracked glass, IMHO. If you do this, please choose your screwdriver carefully. Neither #1 nor #2 Phillips fit properly - the screws are in between. With my screwdrivers, I decided #1 had more engagement though it was still a bit loose. I couldn't find my hollow ground screwdriver tips for firearms but suspect a #1 Phillips in one of those would be better or maybe correct.

For now, I've gotta clean up that bezel - looks like I just had a troupe of 'curtain-climbers' in the house! biggrin.gif
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post #1909 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 10:28 AM
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If this works for you and you wind up not having many more issues: Let's say this happens to someone else. Are there any technicians that can do this if we don't feel comfortable doing it ourselves? Is this a service that a local TV guy might offer?
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post #1910 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

If this works for you and you wind up not having many more issues: Let's say this happens to someone else. Are there any technicians that can do this if we don't feel comfortable doing it ourselves? Is this a service that a local TV guy might offer?

That's a mixed bag. Here is why: If you use your warranty to get a repair guy out there, then I would expect it to be the first thing he tries. But if you call in a warranty repair, your 30 or 90 day return privilege is OVER. Or such is my understanding.

So: I'd say if it is bad enough to return it and you're not comfortable doing it, just return it. If it gets bad enough after the return period is over, then my plan is to only call in a warranty repair request THEN. Not before. Other's opinions invited.

A spot of windex on the micro cloth took those fingerprints off the bezel pronto. I'd never use windex on the coated screen, but I reasoned the plastic bezel would not be harmed. The bezel looks as new again.

I didn't hear any glass cracking, but I checked the screen turned on anyway. No cracks. Sigh of relief.

edit: I just now heard my first "post screwdriver" expansion pop about 10 minutes after turning on the panel. Same timing, roughly, but the sound was softer. Had the sound been on at all, I wouldn't have heard it. Just sayin': It is still there. I can live with this, no problema.
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post #1911 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 10:41 AM
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Wow, that's a 180 from the ST60. All the screws were fairly even as far as tightness was concerned. I don't recall having any that were difficult, and certainly not 60 lbs of force from an impact wrench. All I used was a hand screw driver and didn't have to get ape on it.
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post #1912 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Wow, that's a 180 from the ST60. All the screws were fairly even as far as tightness was concerned. I don't recall having any that were difficult, and certainly not 60 lbs of force from an impact wrench. All I used was a hand screw driver and didn't have to get ape on it.

Moonchilde,

Thanks for input.

That's 60 INCH pounds, BTW. Not foot pounds. eek.gif

Still, just as you say, I wondered if maybe this panel was assembled by a new guy or trainee. mad.gif Seriously, though, if it continues to work reliably, I continue to be very happy with it.

In the mechanical trade, we saw this stuff all the time on brand new cars. We would refer to such an assembler as "ham fisted". For clarity, that is definitely a pejorative. wink.gif

One possible reason for the difference: The back panel of the S60 variants is very different from that of the ST60. It is 1/2 inch thicker and is sheet metal. I don't remember if the rounded back panel of the ST60 was plastic or not..?

Did you have popping with your ST60 or were you just looking at what boards and such were in it?
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post #1913 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Wow, that's a 180 from the ST60. All the screws were fairly even as far as tightness was concerned. I don't recall having any that were difficult, and certainly not 60 lbs of force from an impact wrench. All I used was a hand screw driver and didn't have to get ape on it.

I actually also tried taking a screwdriver to the screws on the S60 that I had that was popping and the screws that I tried working on were extremely tight, to the extent that I opted to stop right there.

The replacement S60 does pop but not nearly with the same consistency and enough less that it's not a problem for me.
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post #1914 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 10:51 AM
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I actually also tried taking a screwdriver to the screws on the S60 that I had that was popping and the screws that I tried working on were extremely tight, to the extent that I opted to stop right there.

The replacement S60 does pop but not nearly with the same consistency and enough less that it's not a problem for me.

I think you were smart to STOP when you perceived dangerously high torque levels.

Even a stripped screw head might snag a later return process - or maybe even warranty coverage if ya' got a repair guy in a bad mood. Maybe not, but there is more at risk than just a stripped screw head, obviously.
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post #1915 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 10:57 AM
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I actually also tried taking a screwdriver to the screws on the S60 that I had that was popping and the screws that I tried working on were extremely tight, to the extent that I opted to stop right there.

The replacement S60 does pop but not nearly with the same consistency and enough less that it's not a problem for me.

That's pretty bad. I can't imagine what on earth they're doing in assembly, I wonder if a good bit of the S series is like that or if it's just a few, I mean at the moment this is 2 people who have verified the problem, and if El Matadurr's popping noise wasn't the power supply but the shifting of the panel stressing the screws, then that makes 3. Still, there are probably a bunch of the S series already on the market so I'm sure there are bound to be a few that slip past QA. I can't imagine it's a bunch of Mexicans (NA panels were assembled in Mexico, at least that's what it said on the back of the ST60) with impact wrenches hamming the screws in.
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Moonchilde,

Thanks for input.

That's 60 INCH pounds, BTW. Not foot pounds. eek.gif

Still, just as you say, I wondered if maybe this panel was assembled by a new guy or trainee. mad.gif Seriously, though, if it continues to work reliably, I'm good with it.

In the mechanical trade, we saw this stuff all the time on brand new cars. We would refer to such an assembler as "ham fisted". wink.gif

Maybe it boils down to lower quality assembly of the S series? You know, I have noticed that the S series is a completely different layout on the back than the ST/VT/ZT which all share the same layout. It might simply be a lower quality QA check on the S series assembly vs the xT series practically all sharing the same assembly spec, which means even the lower tier ST benefits from it.
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post #1916 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 11:01 AM
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That's pretty bad. I can't imagine what on earth they're doing in assembly, I wonder if a good bit of the S series is like that or if it's just a few, I mean at the moment this is 2 people who have verified the problem, and if El Matadurr's popping noise wasn't the power supply but the shifting of the panel stressing the screws, then that makes 3. Still, there are probably a bunch of the S series already on the market so I'm sure there are bound to be a few that slip past QA. I can't imagine it's a bunch of Mexicans (NA panels were assembled in Mexico, at least that's what it said on the back of the ST60) with impact wrenches hamming the screws in.
Maybe it boils down to lower quality assembly of the S series? You know, I have noticed that the S series is a completely different layout on the back than the ST/VT/ZT which all share the same layout. It might simply be a lower quality QA check on the S series assembly vs the xT series practically all sharing the same assembly spec, which means even the lower tier ST benefits from it.


That's a good point. It could be less QC/QA according to model line level. Also, I think it is totally possible that lower cost model assembly lines have lower paid/lower experience techs. Were I a production manager, I'd sure want my best on the ZT line.. etc.

I think Randy said these are assembled in Mexico. Sad to say, but probably none of the line techs get paid very much. No kidding intended in this: Makes me feel guilty about getting this much value for price (IMO).

From the significant number of people in this thread who have purchased an S60 variant, it appears to me that popping complaints being bad enough to return the panel are fairly infrequent. I don't think mine was headed there. I was arguably being excessively picky in trying the screw loosening thing.
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post #1917 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 11:37 AM
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My theory about the popping is that it's because of the bezel construction. Specifically, the other Panny models have a glass overcoat covering the bezel (which features plastic affixed to chrome/aluminum).

My guess is that the glass holds the pieces together more effectively nullifying the heat/expansion movement that results in the pops.

But this is just a theory. And yes, I agree this is far too infrequent to be characterized as a problem.
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post #1918 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 11:47 AM
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My ST60 didn't pop and it definitely did not have any glass covering the bezel. It's more similar to the S series than the VT or ZT.
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post #1919 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 11:48 AM
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So I'm about to lose my mind regarding the "game mode" setting. I have the 42 inch s60 which should have a game mode setting..but for the life of me I cannot find it *anywhere* in the settings menu. Where is it? Or is it something that detects "game" hdmi content and adjusts accordingly?
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post #1920 of 7070 Old 06-04-2013, 11:51 AM
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As far as screws are concerned, as I said in an earlier post I did adjust mine as well.

Some were overly tight and some were too loose, as other have said.

I did not run into one that I was uncomfortable loosening but I can definitely see that happening should one have been just a bit tighter.
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