Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 85 - AVS Forum
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post #2521 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 09:39 AM
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Just wanted to say thanks to Fairchild for his excellent settings.

I've had my 50S64 for almost a month and have settled on using the latest "Custom" specs with some minor tweaks (88 Contrast, 50 Color, Normal color temp). Looks beautiful! I think the reds pop a little more with this setting than Cinema (which is also very nice).
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post #2522 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 09:53 AM
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@SilverWiddow

Does the S60 in custom mode suffer from white clipping? And thank god panasonic included gamma presets(2.2 is what i need) & color controls this time around VS last years U50 and 2011's S30 which were completely bare bones and didn't have either. Gamma is crucial, the S30's must of been 2.6 in anything outside of Cinema mode and I'm not a fan of Cinema mode to begin with so i was completely screwed. Everything had this harsh & dark look to it with black blobbish shadow detail completely being crushed. eek!
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post #2523 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 10:01 AM
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I saw the price drop and decided to renew my costco membership and take the plunge. Called the local costco in the Cleveland area and they said they have no Panny Plasmas at all and they checked the deliveries that show the next two weeks out and for the region and none in sight yet. Is the lack of these models still common in some areas and is there any hope that they'll be coming everywhere eventually?

Thanks!
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post #2524 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 10:08 AM
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Sorry for off topic, but figured I'd post this here since I've been a following this thread forever.

Groupon screwed up and sent me two copies of the Disney WOW disc. So, first person to PM me gets a copy for free. (US only) Consider it a 4th of July gift!
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post #2525 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 10:15 AM
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Ok, disc goes to Chunon. Enjoy!
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post #2526 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 10:18 AM
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Ok, disc goes to Chunon. Enjoy!

Thanks Bro and have a good holiday smile.gif

65VT60
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post #2527 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

The blacks when the set is set properly (I dont mean calibrated, just set to a decent set of settings) are pretty darn dark. Yes you will be able to see it be slightly grey in a pitch black room but any amount of ambient light will make them look almost pitch black. The other case is if you have too much ambient light in the room, plasma's wash out, especially the s60/s64 as they have the bottom of the barrel black filter.
Yes, they are set "properly". My room is small with blackout curtains, practically no ambient light coming in during the day and absolutely no light at night.
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Have you switched to Cinema mode? I noticed dithering on my S64 until I switched to Cinema mode. When I changed my input source to antenna, I noticed dithering (and other artifacts) again and noticed that my settings had reverted to defaults - actually settings are specific to inputs, and once I copied all my settings over from HDMI 1 to antenna, the picture was much better and the dithering went away. Standard and Home Theater modes are so inferior to Cinema that I don't know why the set has them.
Yes I switched to Cinema right out of the box(using fairchilds settings for blu-ray). Dithering has seemed to calm down since last night but it's still there.
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post #2528 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 11:16 AM
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Hello all. I got the floor model P42S60 from Sears for an incredible $300 + tax. Took it home to replace my 2008 Panasonic plasma. However, no matter what changes I make to the settings, I can't get the picture as bright as my 2008 plasma. CATS off, contrast up, panel brightness high, etc... I still find the picture to be very dim. I love the TV itself - it's thinner, lighter and smaller than my bulky 2008 plasma, but the dimness is a dealbreaker. Is this set just not very bright or I am doing something wrong? Thanks in advance. This board is a great resource.
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post #2529 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Marshall1440 View Post

Hello all. I got the floor model P42S60 from Sears for an incredible $300 + tax. Took it home to replace my 2008 Panasonic plasma. However, no matter what changes I make to the settings, I can't get the picture as bright as my 2008 plasma. CATS off, contrast up, panel brightness high, etc... I still find the picture to be very dim. I love the TV itself - it's thinner, lighter and smaller than my bulky 2008 plasma, but the dimness is a dealbreaker. Is this set just not very bright or I am doing something wrong? Thanks in advance. This board is a great resource.

I thought the same thing, but when I switched from standard to custom mode it almost doubled brightness. Hard to believe you did all those other settings and missed the mode change.
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post #2530 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Marshall1440 View Post

Hello all. I got the floor model P42S60 from Sears for an incredible $300 + tax. Took it home to replace my 2008 Panasonic plasma. However, no matter what changes I make to the settings, I can't get the picture as bright as my 2008 plasma. CATS off, contrast up, panel brightness high, etc... I still find the picture to be very dim. I love the TV itself - it's thinner, lighter and smaller than my bulky 2008 plasma, but the dimness is a dealbreaker. Is this set just not very bright or I am doing something wrong? Thanks in advance. This board is a great resource.

Power saving off?
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post #2531 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by silverwidow View Post

Just wanted to say thanks to Fairchild for his excellent settings.

I've had my 50S64 for almost a month and have settled on using the latest "Custom" specs with some minor tweaks (88 Contrast, 50 Color, Normal color temp). Looks beautiful! I think the reds pop a little more with this setting than Cinema (which is also very nice).

Anybody try Fairchild's Cinema settings with Normal Color Temp? I haven't tried out Fairchild's settings yet, but just tweaking from Cinema default settings, I changed from Color Temp Warm to Normal and it seemed to get rid of the red push on people's faces.
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post #2532 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 12:03 PM
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Hi all! Just got a new S64 (was going to get the ST60, but tales of lag scared me down to this model)... Just unboxed and now it's playing a youtube plasma burn-in video... is there something better I should play the first 100 hours? Also, is there a good recommended settings guide for the S64?
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post #2533 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aman74 View Post

I saw the price drop and decided to renew my costco membership and take the plunge. Called the local costco in the Cleveland area and they said they have no Panny Plasmas at all and they checked the deliveries that show the next two weeks out and for the region and none in sight yet. Is the lack of these models still common in some areas and is there any hope that they'll be coming everywhere eventually?

Thanks!
I'm in the Toledo area and none here, or the Detroit area. I've called a few times now.
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post #2534 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by aman74 View Post

I saw the price drop and decided to renew my costco membership and take the plunge. Called the local costco in the Cleveland area and they said they have no Panny Plasmas at all and they checked the deliveries that show the next two weeks out and for the region and none in sight yet. Is the lack of these models still common in some areas and is there any hope that they'll be coming everywhere eventually?

I think they have stock online. Since the 65" won't fit in anything that a pickup that I didn't have access to, I would have had to pay for delivery anyway, and actually ended up saving overall because I paid less tax living in an unincorporated county v. the city my local club store was located in. Costco is less than a mile away, but I would still have needed delivery.
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post #2535 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by frenzy987 View Post

I have a couple of questions regarding the glare/reflections of this panel.

This will be going in a room with blockout curtains, although not pitch black (a little light leaks through the edges) it's certainly not bright enough to read in without turning lights on. In this type of setting will I notice reflections still? And even if in a pitch black setting (at night) does the panel put out enough light to reflect on itself?

If it helps I currently have an eighth gen Pioneer (the second last Kuro) in the room and it's fine. Sorry if these are stupid questions I just want to get a better idea of how dark the room has to be to avoid reflections.

P.S. The S64 isn't available here (Australia) and the ST60 is not an option as this TV will be for gaming only.

I keep my blinds closed most of the time and don't have curtains so I get light through the slats reflecting on my 65S64. The only ones that bother me are at an angle directly opposite. I have huge windows on the west wall and since most of the time I am either in the kitchen or seated at the dining table towards the north and north west walls, the window towards the north is the one reflecting in the screen late in the afternoon. There is a lamp a few feet from that W-NW window that I rarely leave on, but if I do, can see the reflection in dark scenes from my kitchen or dining table at night. I have a large window just behind my seat at the dining table, but can't see the reflection from there - however, if I sit on the right side of my couch on the north wall, I can see it reflected in the screen. I also have a chandelier above the dining table that I leave on when I'm at the table, but I have not been able to seen its reflection even though it is above and slightly between me and the TV. I assume the S64 only mutes reflections a few lumens down from what they'd look like on an S60. Basically only light sources at an opposite angle (think of it like you, the TV as where on a pool table you aim to ricochet off, and the light source as the pool table pocket) are problematic.
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post #2536 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Anybody try Fairchild's Cinema settings with Normal Color Temp? I haven't tried out Fairchild's settings yet, but just tweaking from Cinema default settings, I changed from Color Temp Warm to Normal and it seemed to get rid of the red push on people's faces.

For me, Fairchild's settings on Normal are very green. I assume this is because by changing it from warm2 you take out a lot of red out of the picture. I just can't get myself to stick with warm2 no matter how many calibrations set it that way, that mode makes whites orange, I don't understand how people can stand by and vouch for it, "correct" or not. It looks ******.

If someone came up to you and told you to wear a pair of orange glasses for the rest of your life because it was "correct", would you do it? You'd tell them to F off.
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post #2537 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 02:01 PM
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edit:

fc99's settings work great on my set.
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post #2538 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinAiken View Post

Hi all! Just got a new S64 (was going to get the ST60, but tales of lag scared me down to this model)... Just unboxed and now it's playing a youtube plasma burn-in video... is there something better I should play the first 100 hours? Also, is there a good recommended settings guide for the S64?

You couldn't pay me to play a youtube video for the breakin-in, why would anyone even make such a thing knowing youtube's compression? What am I missing?
The point of the break-in slides is to age the pixels at the same rate, which I believe could not be achieved using a youtube video.

Putting 12 pictures on a USB isn't hard and it's rock solid reliable.
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post #2539 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

For me, Fairchild's settings on Normal are very green. I assume this is because by changing it from warm2 you take out a lot of red out of the picture. I just can't get myself to stick with warm2 no matter how many calibrations set it that way, that mode makes whites orange, I don't understand how people can stand by and vouch for it, "correct" or not. It looks ******.

If someone came up to you and told you to wear a pair of orange glasses for the rest of your life because it was "correct", would you do it? You'd tell them to F off.

Xenon9887, did you try Warm 1? That might be a decent compromise, although I prefer everything to be flat - anything varying from Normal is introducing distortion to me. I suppose if Warm 2 is like wearing orange lenses, then Warm 1 would be like wearing yellow lenses?
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post #2540 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JustinAiken View Post

Hi all! Just got a new S64 (was going to get the ST60, but tales of lag scared me down to this model)... Just unboxed and now it's playing a youtube plasma burn-in video... is there something better I should play the first 100 hours? Also, is there a good recommended settings guide for the S64?

fairchild99 did 10 iterations of calibration on his S60. These work very well for a LOT of people. If you want to try them, look for any post by fc99 and you will find the link to the settings in his signature line. IMHO, those are 2 of the latest greatest shared settings originating from his calibration work on his panel.

His settings work very well on my 65PS64.
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post #2541 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

I just can't get myself to stick with warm2 no matter how many calibrations set it that way, that mode makes whites orange, I don't understand how people can stand by and vouch for it, "correct" or not. It looks ******.

If someone came up to you and told you to wear a pair of orange glasses for the rest of your life because it was "correct", would you do it? You'd tell them to F off.

Just setting the color mode to warm2 is not a calibration. On a properly calibrated TV set using proper physical hardware + software + patterns, whites are white and grays are grays and colors are not over-saturated and flesh-tones are not overly one color or another. That's the whole point of the calibration, to get everything to look as close as possible to what the director envisioned.

The reason most calibrations begin on the warmer preset is because to get to the calibration points it is usually easier on that mode. You could try to calibrate to Rec.709/D65 while on the Cool2 preset, but you most likely won't be able to reach the desired calibration points since you would be soooo far away from where you are trying to get (D65 for grayscale is 6500k temperature, Cool2 is probably around 9300k or there about and way way blue tinged)

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings

Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings

HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT150 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60

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post #2542 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

For me, Fairchild's settings on Normal are very green. I assume this is because by changing it from warm2 you take out a lot of red out of the picture. I just can't get myself to stick with warm2 no matter how many calibrations set it that way, that mode makes whites orange, I don't understand how people can stand by and vouch for it, "correct" or not. It looks ******.

If someone came up to you and told you to wear a pair of orange glasses for the rest of your life because it was "correct", would you do it? You'd tell them to F off.

I agree with this 100% Too many experts suggesting to others what is correct. We all perceive and prefer things differently.
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post #2543 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 03:55 PM
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Thanks xenon9887, Cravit8 and HDTimeShifter for your replies regarding reflection, much appreciated.
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post #2544 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

Did you intend that to sound presumptuous or condescending to the fairchild99 and the vast majority who like generously shared settings?

Has anyone told you that you have to live with fairchild99's settings? Appears your panel deviates from his and from many. Fine, it happens. Solution: Change the settings or get it calibrated or buy equipment and calibrate it yourself. If you do your own calibration, just know that it will not work for some. Hopefully they would still be thankful to you for sharing what worked on your panel.

Some have said they like C-Net's settings better and they left it at that. Those might be worth trying on a panel that doesn't respond well to fc99's settings.

I see no reason to act as though there is something definitely wrong with fairchild99's settings and that all of us are inexplicably accepting an orange picture when a more likely explanation is that your panel varies from the TV's of those who like his settings. Pro calibrators have said over and over in this thread that PANELS VARY and sometimes by a LOT. Had you really missed that?

Ok, let's repeat it again:

Many pro calibrators say that panels vary a lot. Some believe that shared settings seldom work acceptably well because panels can vary so widely and so often.


Another guy a ways back in this thread said he couldn't believe everyone wasn't seeing green push in fairchild99's settings. And that was on warm2. He repeated that opinion in a few posts.

My picture isn't orange or showing red push or I would change settings or get it calibrated. There is no way I would accept an orange picture.

On my panel, I absolutely vouch for fairchild99's settings - with no hesitation whatsoever. It is gorgeous. I also feel lucky that I won't have to hire a calibrator due to my remote location.

I did see red push in a couple TV series in Amazon. That appears to be localized to the video content itself. Some vids in Amazon have glaring motion errors, too. Many don't.

I see a lot of people saying they like fairchild99's settings. In fact, I think it is safe to say that the great majority say that. I seriously doubt we're all just accepting an orange picture.

When I had my ST60, a lot of people were complaining about red push with D-Nice's settings. That doesn't mean his settings were off. I suspect his panel may have deviated from whatever the average is/was for an ST60. It seemed to lend support to the idea that shared settings don't always work out.

Appears fairchild99's panel may be electronically closer to the average S60/64 due to the significantly far greater number of AVS members who have thanked him for sharing his work on 10 iterations. I believe that to be a LOT of work he so generously shared with us. He even bought new equipment, dialed things again and shared that with us in later settings.

Many may believe he is one of the leading contributors of time to the S60 thread. I certainly do.

I apologize if that is the way it came off to you, but I fail to see where I in anyway called into question the value of Fairchild's efforts and contributions to this community. Are you looking for someone insulting them? I simply said I dislike the warm colour temperatures as they make white look orange. This has been the same on every television or monitor I have ever seen (including many supposedly calibrated sets our AV club in college had (I wasn't a member, but we got to use those sets all the time) , or movie theater screen for that fact. It is possible that to my eye, white is slightly blue which may be part of my issue, I don't know. I would need someone to measure a display to pure white and then i'd have to look at it. I wondered why so many stuck by them (the stanards, not fairchild's settings) because they all just do look orange to my eye, always have, every single one i've ever seen.

I responded to a post asking if anyone had tried Fairchild's settings on normal, so I answered that they look green, I also gave my assumption on why that was the case. I use and like his settings, and have since I first put them in, just on the warm 1 setting as it is less orange, more slightly yellow, which I am willing to live with, it looks pretty good to me now that i've got somewhat accustomed to it. I still prefer a more neutral temperature but I use these as they are supposedly closer to what they should be, ignoring any deviation my set may have from his, I have no way to know.
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Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

Xenon9887, did you try Warm 1? That might be a decent compromise, although I prefer everything to be flat - anything varying from Normal is introducing distortion to me. I suppose if Warm 2 is like wearing orange lenses, then Warm 1 would be like wearing yellow lenses?

Already settled on that weeks ago :P I keep trying to go to normal but things are just too green there. I tried dialing back the green but that makes things worse haha, hence settling on warm1. I'm no calibrator. Don't have the tools, and I doubt I have the eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

Just setting the color mode to warm2 is not a calibration. On a properly calibrated TV set using proper physical hardware + software + patterns, whites are white and grays are grays and colors are not over-saturated and flesh-tones are not overly one color or another. That's the whole point of the calibration, to get everything to look as close as possible to what the director envisioned.

The reason most calibrations begin on the warmer preset is because to get to the calibration points it is usually easier on that mode. You could try to calibrate to Rec.709/D65 while on the Cool2 preset, but you most likely won't be able to reach the desired calibration points since you would be soooo far away from where you are trying to get (D65 for grayscale is 6500k temperature, Cool2 is probably around 9300k or there about and way way blue tinged)

I completely understand the fact that using your calibration results in now way means my set is calibrated. Now I am honestly asking here, this isn't in anyway sarcasm or attitude. Why is it that any supposedly calibrated set I have ever seen, white always have an orange hue? It's like sitting in a room with a really warm incandescent bulb, a perfectly white, bleached piece of paper is all of a sudden orange. It is certainly correct to the lighting, because the paper is now reflecting orange light from the bulb, but its orange light, not white. Take the piece of paper outside on a night bright day, and it's now reflecting mostly white light, with some obvious mixing with some reflections from the sky and surroundings etc... This is what I expect outdoor whites on tv and in movies to look like, but I have never seen this.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
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post #2545 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cravit8 View Post

I thought the same thing, but when I switched from standard to custom mode it almost doubled brightness. Hard to believe you did all those other settings and missed the mode change.

Thanks for your suggestion. I will try custom mode when I get home. However, I don't know anything about calibrating a tv. Are you able to share your picture settings with me? Much appreciated. Thanks
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post #2546 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

Why is it that any supposedly calibrated set I have ever seen, white always have an orange hue? It's like sitting in a room with a really warm incandescent bulb, a perfectly white, bleached piece of paper is all of a sudden orange. It is certainly correct to the lighting, because the paper is now reflecting orange light from the bulb, but its orange light, not white. Take the piece of paper outside on a night bright day, and it's now reflecting mostly white light, with some obvious mixing with some reflections from the sky and surroundings etc... This is what I expect outdoor whites on tv and in movies to look like, but I have never seen this.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Perhaps like you said, when your eyes are accustomed to seeing an overly blue or cool image, anything that has a warmer temperature will of course at first look more reddish. Similarly once your eyes are accustomed to a properly calibrated 6500k color temperature, and you say change to Cool, you will instantly notice how overly blue the image now looks. Also unless these "supposedly calibrated set" that you have seen was actually properly calibrated using a reliable meter + software + correct patterns then it probably isn't calibrated right.

More info here (I have posted this a few times in this thread already)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminant_D65

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings

Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings

HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT150 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60

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post #2547 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

Perhaps like you said, when your eyes are accustomed to seeing an overly blue or cool image, anything that has a warmer temperature will of course at first look more reddish. Similarly once your eyes are accustomed to a properly calibrated 6500k color temperature, and you say change to Cool, you will instantly notice how overly blue the image now looks. Also unless these "supposedly calibrated set" that you have seen was actually properly calibrated using a reliable meter + software + correct patterns then it probably isn't calibrated right.

More info here (I have posted this a few times in this thread already)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminant_D65

They were most certainly done with the proper tools. They had the equipment for the a/v calibration courses they offered for the film students.
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post #2548 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

Perhaps like you said, when your eyes are accustomed to seeing an overly blue or cool image, anything that has a warmer temperature will of course at first look more reddish. Similarly once your eyes are accustomed to a properly calibrated 6500k color temperature, and you say change to Cool, you will instantly notice how overly blue the image now looks. Also unless these "supposedly calibrated set" that you have seen was actually properly calibrated using a reliable meter + software + correct patterns then it probably isn't calibrated right.

More info here (I have posted this a few times in this thread already)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminant_D65
I think that your "Illuminant_D65" link is great. When folks say "white", what on earth do they mean? A totally neutral piece of paper under daylight? That, folks is D65. That, folks is what "calibration" (using properly functioning instruments) is about.

Dave Hancock
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post #2549 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 07:06 PM
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So, I finally got my S64 today. I started running slides and noticed some banding on the right side (1 inch to edge) of the screen. I thought the 2013 models didn't have this problem anymore?
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post #2550 of 7070 Old 07-03-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Kocis View Post

I'm in the Toledo area and none here, or the Detroit area. I've called a few times now.

Thanks for offering your experience. I guess we'll have to wait and see. When they said they hadn't even gotten the 65" I got a bit worried as that one has been out for awhile now. It makes me think not every area will even get them. I guess I'll call again in a couple weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I think they have stock online. Since the 65" won't fit in anything that a pickup that I didn't have access to, I would have had to pay for delivery anyway, and actually ended up saving overall because I paid less tax living in an unincorporated county v. the city my local club store was located in. Costco is less than a mile away, but I would still have needed delivery.

Hmm, not sure if the tax issue would be the same here, I don't think so as I've never heard of being able to save that way. Our tax rate is the same county wide. The county the Costco store is in has a slightly lower tax rate, but not by much. I'm not sure what tax rate Costco online would charge me. Anyway, it's a 99 dollar shipping charge. I'm getting the 50" as, unfortunately I can't afford the 65". 99 bucks is a lot to me.

Normally I wouldn't worry too much and just figure on getting one on sale somewhere or whatever, but it looks like the S64 may not have a long run and I think with the AG filter represents a great value. That's the main thing people would pay more for by stepping up to the ST...and on top of that no lag issues, so I think it's a unique bargain, especially now that the price dropped down another 100 dollars to 629.

I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed that they get them in this area. If not I'll have to decide if I want to pay for delivery.

Thanks for listening to me think out loud. wink.gif
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