Official Panasonic S60 Series Discussion Thread - Page 94 - AVS Forum
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post #2791 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

Hey guys just joined AVS today after reading the reviews on the 65" s64 model at costco and finally purchasing it

I'm having a bit of a problem. When the screen is all white or has a lot of light colors the white ends up getting dim. This is most noticeable when I am browsing the internet. Changing the screen size from half the screen to full screen drops the white brightness to about 50%.

Has anyone else noticed this ?

This is normal, it's called ABL. All plasma's have it built into the tech, it's to prevent the panel from getting too bright and causing a malfunction.

Btw. here is another calibration that I did the other day. Same concept as my last one, but instead of doing the calibration run with the spectrometer, I used it to profile my colorimeter to get better results at the low end.
Code:
GCD 10% window with 75%/75% amp/sat color 10% window.  i1d2 profiled off colormunki photo

Cinema
85
-2
46
0
0
warm2
off
off
off
off

pro
mid
agc 0
black ext 0
color normal

w/b
-3
0
1

7
0
-4

cms
2
0
-2

0
0
-4

0
0
7

gamma 2.4





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Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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post #2792 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

Hey guys just joined AVS today after reading the reviews on the 65" s64 model at costco and finally purchasing it

I'm having a bit of a problem. When the screen is all white or has a lot of light colors the white ends up getting dim. This is most noticeable when I am browsing the internet. Changing the screen size from half the screen to full screen drops the white brightness to about 50%.

all auto dimming/contrast/eco settings have been turned off

Has anyone else noticed this ?

I never experienced this on my GT50 double check your settings. Make sure CATS is off. what setting are you using?

TV - Panasonic 55GT50 THX, Main Speakers - Klipsch Gallery G28's, Center Channel- Klipsch RC-52, Sub-Klipsch Sub 12, Surround - Klipsch RS-52 II Bluray/Game - HTPC/PS3, Receiver - Onkyo RC-360, HTPC- Intel Core i3, HDMI,Windows 7,XBMC,Bluray,7 TB, Video Processor -Darbee

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post #2793 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 06:42 PM
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It's pretty annoying, I previously tried a panasonic tc-58le64 that had great colors and brightness but had

1) Uneven backlighting in two corners
2) weird dark vertical banding near the center (only noticable with bright moving backgrounds)

I watch a lot of anime/browse the internet, so the ABL may be a deal breaker if I can't figure out a way to fix it

My picture was calibrated using my Apple 23" Cinema Display as my reference, It was previously color corrected for photography work

Custom
contrast 90
brightness 0
color 50
tint 0
sharpness 0
color temp normal
vivid color off
cats off
video nr off
mpeg nr off

Pro settings
Panel Brightness High
Acg 0
Black extension 0
Color gamut Native

Color detail Adjustments
Red Saturation -10

Gamma Detail 2.2

Advanced picture
HDMI range Nonstandard
Black Level Light
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post #2794 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 06:50 PM
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I just tried turning the contrast down to 50% and it does get rid of the ABL, but the screen is now very dark, none of the colors "pop" anymore frown.gif
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post #2795 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

I just tried turning the contrast down to 50% and does seem to get rid of ABL, but the screen is now very dark, none of the colors "pop" anymore frown.gif

Panel brightness at High is a bad idea. It is the mode that is baked into the Vivid modes and thus is terrible. In fact it adds a ton of dithering to the image, which is noticeable in dark scenes/content. But yeah, all plasma's have ABL, though some are more aggressive than others. I don't notice the ABL when watching movies or TV or sports or any video content or gaming. I only notice it as you said when moving windows around on a desktop etc....

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Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
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post #2796 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 07:07 PM
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When watching my Akira bluray I noticed that some of the dark details were missing (in one seen one of the street lamps should be barely visible and the seam on a suit should also be visible) but in both cases the scene was too dark to see them = bumped the panel brightness to high ..

Using a pure white screen as a worse case scenario is no noticeable brightness drop until I go down to 45% = that's a HUGE loss of brightness in my opinion. From 45%- 100% the white panel remains the exact same brightness.

I am going to try and find a balance in the contrast maybe 60-70% to see if I can find a setting that works well 95% of the time. If I can't it might just be a deal breaker frown.gif
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post #2797 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

When watching my Akira bluray I noticed that some of the dark details were missing (in one seen one of the street lamps should be barely visible and the seam on a suit should also be visible) but in both cases the scene was too dark to see them = bumped the panel brightness to high ..

Using a pure white screen as a worse case scenario is no noticeable brightness drop until I go down to 45% = that's a HUGE loss of brightness in my opinion. From 45%- 100% the white panel remains the exact same brightness.

I am going to try and find a balance in the contrast maybe 60-70% to see if I can find a setting that works well 95% of the time. If I can't it might just be a deal breaker frown.gif

Doesn't Cnet have custom settings for your tv? Have you tried them? Or anybody else' s settings.

TV - Panasonic 55GT50 THX, Main Speakers - Klipsch Gallery G28's, Center Channel- Klipsch RC-52, Sub-Klipsch Sub 12, Surround - Klipsch RS-52 II Bluray/Game - HTPC/PS3, Receiver - Onkyo RC-360, HTPC- Intel Core i3, HDMI,Windows 7,XBMC,Bluray,7 TB, Video Processor -Darbee

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post #2798 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

When watching my Akira bluray I noticed that some of the dark details were missing (in one seen one of the street lamps should be barely visible and the seam on a suit should also be visible) but in both cases the scene was too dark to see them = bumped the panel brightness to high ..

Using a pure white screen as a worse case scenario is no noticeable brightness drop until I go down to 45% = that's a HUGE loss of brightness in my opinion. From 45%- 100% the white panel remains the exact same brightness.

I am going to try and find a balance in the contrast maybe 60-70% to see if I can find a setting that works well 95% of the time. If I can't it might just be a deal breaker frown.gif

so with the gamma set to 2.2 and when the ABL hasn't kicked in, the lamp for example is perfectly visable? But WHEN the ABL kicks in it crushes shadow detail due to the brightness drop? I'm sure the color ends up looking less saturated and duller as well.
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post #2799 of 7242 Old 07-19-2013, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

so with the gamma set to 2.2 and when the ABL hasn't kicked in, the lamp for example is perfectly visable? But WHEN the ABL kicks in it crushes shadow detail due to the brightness drop? I'm sure the color ends up looking less saturated and duller as well.

Its two separate issues

1) While watching Akira some of the darker details were not visible at the settings I had, so I increased the Panel brightness from mid to high and that restored them. This is a very nitpicky point, most people will not notice it, but I have seen the movie about 15 times so i know "what it should look like". This plasma is an excellent choice for dark movies like Akira, High Production value animations (they seem to use a darker pallete than animation used for television, they tend not to use pure white except for rare shots), normal broadcast television and other movies

2) The problem I am having is that I use my living room television to browse the interent and also watch Anime = lots of bright colors. This is when I am noticing the ABL kick in. I can turn down the brightness to 45% to get rid of all the ABL but now the colors just don't pop anymore. A good example is Bakemonogatari anime that has a lot of solid colors, but they are now all pretty dull at 45% contrast.

After messing with the TV for about 4 hours I have made some improvements so that ABL is a lot less noticable. Thankfully my room is very dark.

Changes I made

Contrast 50, ACG is not at 5 (seems to make colors pop more at the expense of colors being washed out) and Gamma is now set at 2.4 ( offsets the ACG changes somewhat).

I'll keep messing with the settings over the weekend. I think using this monitor for browsing the internet will always be inferior to using an LCD, but my goal is to improve it for anime as best as I can.


TL;DR: Plasma good for movies, television, color uniformity and black . LED LCD: Good for browsing the internet, watching anime or any other bright content like Hockey
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post #2800 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 12:03 AM
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Xenon9887, HDTimeShifter, Thanks for your suggestions.

I did check format for USB flash drive..it is Fat32. Also set up a folder for the slides and finally was able to run the prep slide show.

After ~100 hrs I'll try using the recent Fairchild settings. Previously facial skin tones were too red. I've fiddled with the settings but so far I'm unable to turn down the red hue.
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post #2801 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

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Originally Posted by Big C View Post

I can't win! It looks like if I get the only 1080p plasma which fits on my shelf, daytime viewing will suffer. Yet if I get an LED backlit LCD TV, I'll be giving up quality for visibility!
You may have a different problem if the set is fitting in an enclosed area. Plasmas give off a lot of heat. The LCD/LEDs give off a lot less. Yes, it is a trade off.
Will 1.65" between each external front speaker and 0.9" between the top of the TV and the second shelf provide enough ventelation? If not, then I know I'll have to eliminate this wonderful opertunity to get a plasma as a possibility. If the measurements I just provided will provide enough ventelation, then I'd be back to deciding between maximum quality or maximum visibility.
Is this adequate?
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post #2802 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 07:05 AM
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I have a P42S60, and I am trying to use it with the vierraremote2 app for the iPhone. The app works very well, as long as the set was powered on before using it. When the S60 is powered off, it is not visible on the network, so I can't power it ON with app. If it is already powered-ON, I can use the app, and I can power it OFF, whereupon it disappears from the wireless LAN. I have searched for a setting in the menus that would fix this, without success. I sent an e-mail to Panasonic about this, but have not had a reply. I don't know if the ethernet LAN is different.

Can anybody confirm or deny this behavior in their S60.
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post #2803 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 09:53 AM
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I live in Toronto, Canada and just went to Costco to find they finally have s64s here! Wish there were here two months or soago when I bought my s60. Ohh well.

Proof.

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post #2804 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

I live in Toronto, Canada and just went to Costco to find they finally have s64s here! Wish there were here two months or soago when I bought my s60. Ohh well.

Proof.


Such a great deal for a very good panel.

TV - Panasonic 55GT50 THX, Main Speakers - Klipsch Gallery G28's, Center Channel- Klipsch RC-52, Sub-Klipsch Sub 12, Surround - Klipsch RS-52 II Bluray/Game - HTPC/PS3, Receiver - Onkyo RC-360, HTPC- Intel Core i3, HDMI,Windows 7,XBMC,Bluray,7 TB, Video Processor -Darbee

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post #2805 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

This is normal, it's called ABL. All plasma's have it built into the tech, it's to prevent the panel from getting too bright and causing a malfunction.

Btw. here is another calibration that I did the other day. Same concept as my last one, but instead of doing the calibration run with the spectrometer, I used it to profile my colorimeter to get better results at the low end.
Code:
GCD 10% window with 75%/75% amp/sat color 10% window.  i1d2 profiled off colormunki photo

Cinema
85
-2
46
0
0
warm2
off
off
off
off

pro
mid
agc 0
black ext 0
color normal

w/b
-3
0
1

7
0
-4

cms
2
0
-2

0
0
-4

0
0
7

gamma 2.4






I think that's the best cinema yet. The colors are close to the custom and the whites are better so yesterday it was custom and today it's cinema :-) Thanks so much for all your hard work.
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post #2806 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

I live in Toronto, Canada and just went to Costco to find they finally have s64s here! Wish there were here two months or soago when I bought my s60. Ohh well.

Proof.

Isn't it bad to have the panel laying on its side? One box appears to be laying face down/up on top of the rest.
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post #2807 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 07:41 PM
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I can clearly see in the picture the proper way to position the box,the instructions are right there lol.


Probably they don't care if the glass break.

Panasonic 65VT60 / Marantz SR7005 / Marantz UD7007 /PSA XS30 /Revel Performa3 F206 / Revel Performa3 C205 / Revel Surrounds/Sonos Connect/ Roku 3 / Amazon Fire tv / Xbox One / HTPC / Darbee 5000 /Sonos for bedrooms,kitchen,bathroom/Master bedroom Sonos sound bar/Sonos sub and Sonos surrounds.
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post #2808 of 7242 Old 07-20-2013, 08:05 PM
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Those warnings are mainly for transport, you aren't very likely to damage one of these sets just by laying them flat for storage. That said they certainly shouldn't be doing it, why tempt fate right?!
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post #2809 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 03:38 AM
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Sorry to bug you again fairchild. I have the old setup you used to have with your HTPC. Full RGB in Catalyst, nonstandard on TV, with MadVR set to 0-255. So the blacks are crushed as you said and it looks like 2.2 is the sweet spot (is that what you used?) and it's looking good. However I'm curious if you played around with the madVR settings, especially in the calibration settings as this is where I'm lost.

On the television I put it to this display is already calibrated - unchecked gpu gamma ramps. The display primaries/gamut I used is bt.709 with pure power curve at 2.20. Even with you going standard now I don't know if you changed anything but you would probably know the best settings for 0-255 and 16-235. I don't really notice a difference between limited and full either, so the options you found best would be helpful.

Also, do you have any tips/tweaks that you can give me as 80% of my viewing experience (only tv shows) will be from the computer so I'm trying to get all the help possible.
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post #2810 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 05:49 AM
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My issue with gamma controls. For years, I preferred really bringing out those dark grays, especially when watching night scenes in horror movies. Now I'm starting to realize that when doing that, some of the colors get a little funky. So now, I leave my gamma control in the middle. I don't have this TV, but after reading the manual, I have discovered that unlike the rest of the controls, the gamma control is a six-position switch (S-curve/1.8/2.0/2.2/2.4/2.6). Why couldn't it have been either a three-, 5-, 7-position, 0-100, or -50-+50! This means there is no actual mid/normal/neutral position and you're stuck choosing between positions three and four. One position would lean toward slightly blered whites and slightly funky colors. The other position would lean towards a little difficulty viewing those night time scenes. What would be the equivalent position on this TV as though it had a mid/normal/neutral position or even no gamma control at all?
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post #2811 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

My issue with gamma controls. For years, I preferred really bringing out those dark grays, especially when watching night scenes in horror movies. Now I'm starting to realize that when doing that, some of the colors get a little funky. So now, I leave my gamma control in the middle. I don't have this TV, but after reading the manual, I have discovered that unlike the rest of the controls, the gamma control is a six-position switch (S-curve/1.8/2.0/2.2/2.4/2.6). Why couldn't it have been either a three-, 5-, 7-position, 0-100, or -50-+50! This means there is no actual mid/normal/neutral position and you're stuck choosing between positions three and four. One position would lean toward slightly blered whites and slightly funky colors. The other position would lean towards a little difficulty viewing those night time scenes. What would be the equivalent position on this TV as though it had a mid/normal/neutral position or even no gamma control at all?

gamma controls never existed on CRT tube SDTV's(At least on the ones that i owned and came across), so i'm assuming they were all set to medium / 2.2 by default?
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post #2812 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 07:20 AM
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So I just bought a 50" S64 at Costco, and (unlike most folks) I now realize that it's just too big for us. I really wanted the 42" S60, but it looks like that one may have been discontinued or something because everyone seems to be out of stock. Anyone know what the deal is? I love the S64, but is just too much TV. Anyone have ideas of another comparable TV or should I try to wait for a 42" S60? I have time...
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post #2813 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustaf View Post

So I just bought a 50" S64 at Costco, and (unlike most folks) I now realize that it's just too big for us. I really wanted the 42" S60, but it looks like that one may have been discontinued or something because everyone seems to be out of stock. Anyone know what the deal is? I love the S64, but is just too much TV. Anyone have ideas of another comparable TV or should I try to wait for a 42" S60? I have time...
Let's hope they're still going strong because I know that LED will be around forever, yet I don't know how long before plasma officially becomes extinct. Considering its reputation of high picture quality at an affordable price, I would really like the opertunity to get a brand new P42S60 before it's too late!
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post #2814 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 07:41 AM
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gamma controls never existed on CRT tube SDTV's(At least on the ones that i owned and came across), so i'm assuming they were all set to medium / 2.2 by default?
The reason that Gamma controls did not exist on CRT displays was that it was "baked into" the CRT itself. Put another way: The original CRTs had the non-linear characteristic that we know as gamma. So the whole TV system was developed around that characteristic. When other displays were developed, the manufacturers had to replicate this characteristic, and many included controls for this characteristic (particularly when the internal signal processing is digital and adding gamma controls adds nothing to the manufacturing cost).

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post #2815 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustaf View Post

So I just bought a 50" S64 at Costco, and (unlike most folks) I now realize that it's just too big for us. I really wanted the 42" S60, but it looks like that one may have been discontinued or something because everyone seems to be out of stock. Anyone know what the deal is? I love the S64, but is just too much TV. Anyone have ideas of another comparable TV or should I try to wait for a 42" S60? I have time...

How far away do you sit from your tv? A 50" really isn't that big, and with a viewing distance of 6-8' is actually ideal in size for movie watching.
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post #2816 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 08:38 AM
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Most of the TV watching is done 8 to 10 feet away, but I should tell you that it's more of an aesthetic issue. As an interior designer, it makes me crazy because the 50" TV is a huge hunk of blackness. And, short of keeping the blinds drawn all the time, this is the best wall for a TV.

Does the picture look good? Yes it does. It it nice to watch? Yes it is. Do I hate how large it is? Yes I do. I feel like a 34/7 Superbowl party is happening, and that is NOT a good thing in my house. That's why I think I need the 42" -- smaller but still watchable.

So I am probably the last person who should be on the AVS Forum, but I know you guys are the experts in your field. Any hope of the Panny 42" coming back?
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post #2817 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Gustaf View Post

Most of the TV watching is done 8 to 10 feet away, but I should tell you that it's more of an aesthetic issue. As an interior designer, it makes me crazy because the 50" TV is a huge hunk of blackness. And, short of keeping the blinds drawn all the time, this is the best wall for a TV.

Does the picture look good? Yes it does. It it nice to watch? Yes it is. Do I hate how large it is? Yes I do. I feel like a 34/7 Superbowl party is happening, and that is NOT a good thing in my house. That's why I think I need the 42" -- smaller but still watchable.

So I am probably the last person who should be on the AVS Forum, but I know you guys are the experts in your field. Any hope of the Panny 42" coming back?

I am no expert, I just own one of these TVs and have been contributing what I can to the discussion and trying to help people when the need arises.

I haven't heard of a 42" s64, but if you hunt around i'm sure you would be able to track down a 42" s60. Same tv, just without the anti-reflection filter.
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post #2818 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 08:51 AM
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Thanks, xenon. I am on the hunt for a 42" s60, but no luck. Might have missed out on them, but I will keep hunting. In the meantime, I will pack this 50" up to take it back to Costco. Ugh. Chalk it up to bigger might be better, but it's not always nicer to look at.
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post #2819 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenon9887 View Post

I live in Toronto, Canada and just went to Costco to find they finally have s64s here! Wish there were here two months or soago when I bought my s60. Ohh well.

Proof.


:-) I also would have bought the S64 had I known it was coming to Costco Canada. Ended up with the 50" ST60 instead (and cannot complain since I got it for a crazy $999 at a BB Rewards Zone sale).

Still, seeing this now at Costco, I wonder what could have been. If the price happens to drop later this year or in early 2014 into the $700 range, I'm buying one of these puppies for the bedroom.
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post #2820 of 7242 Old 07-22-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Gustaf View Post

Most of the TV watching is done 8 to 10 feet away, but I should tell you that it's more of an aesthetic issue. As an interior designer, it makes me crazy because the 50" TV is a huge hunk of blackness. And, short of keeping the blinds drawn all the time, this is the best wall for a TV.

Does the picture look good? Yes it does. It it nice to watch? Yes it is. Do I hate how large it is? Yes I do. I feel like a 34/7 Superbowl party is happening, and that is NOT a good thing in my house. That's why I think I need the 42" -- smaller but still watchable.

So I am probably the last person who should be on the AVS Forum, but I know you guys are the experts in your field. Any hope of the Panny 42" coming back?

At that size and distance you might as well save some $$$ and get a 720 as you won't be able to get the effects of a 1080p.
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