Need help deciding on whether to buy a NIB Kuro Elite 151FD - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys. I have the opportunity to buy a brand new in the box Pioneer Elite Kuro 151FD for $2,500 no tax. There is no warranty from the seller as its just an individual, not a dealer that I know of. Is there too much risk involved or is this tv that amazing that this is a very rare opportunity not to pass up. Please help. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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post #2 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone?

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post #3 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 10:24 AM
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For $2500, id think a new 60" VT60 or 55" ZT60 would approach if not surpass that set in terms of PQ as well as getting 3D and smart TV features, as well as a return window and warranty. I just dont see how a Kuro could be that good, esp compared to the 2013 models. But im sure someone will chime in
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post #4 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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You may be right. That's one of the things I'm debating. Do you currently or have you ever owned a Kuro?

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post #5 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

You may be right. That's one of the things I'm debating. Do you currently or have you ever owned a Kuro?

See my reply to your post in the other thread.
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post #6 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 11:17 AM
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I would only entertain the idea of buying a NIB Kuro if i knew the guy i was buying it from, and i was able to thoroughly inspect it and test it before sealing the deal. And even then, i'd still be wary of spending that much money and not having any warranty.

Here's another very similar thread from a few weeks ago that may help you make a decision:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460200/nib-kuro-sig-141-from-dealer-friend-or-zt60-need-help-deciding

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post #7 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I would only entertain the idea of buying a NIB Kuro if i knew the guy i was buying it from, and i was able to thoroughly inspect it and test it before sealing the deal. And even then, i'd still be wary of spending that much money and not having any warranty.

Here's another very similar thread from a few weeks ago that may help you make a decision:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460200/nib-kuro-sig-141-from-dealer-friend-or-zt60-need-help-deciding

Thanks Randy. I've actually been following that thread as well and made a post in there a couple days ago.

Unfortunately I do not know this guy and he will not take the box open to send pictures of the condition of the tv. He claims this will significantly reduce the value. I don't buy that for a second. Taking the top portion of the box off to inspect a "new" tv does not make it any less new. How do I know that the tv doesn't have a cracked screen or physical damage. Something just doesn't seem quite right about this. I'm not really getting a good feeling about this and I've always learned to trust my instinct. Thanks for the advice

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post #8 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

Thanks Randy. I've actually been following that thread as well and made a post in there a couple days ago.

Unfortunately I do not know this guy and he will not take the box open to send pictures of the condition of the tv. He claims this will significantly reduce the value. I don't buy that for a second. Taking the top portion of the box off to inspect a "new" tv does not make it any less new. How do I know that the tv doesn't have a cracked screen or physical damage. Something just doesn't seem quite right about this. I'm not really getting a good feeling about this and I've always learned to trust my instinct. Thanks for the advice

Good advice listed above! I would pass and look at the new models from panny and samsungs f8500 series. For the price I think you would have better piece of mind. I think there will be some stellar performance this year from Panasonic and Hopefully Samsung. I think we are getting to the point where even if the kuro isn't completely passed it's close enough.
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post #9 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

Unfortunately I do not know this guy and he will not take the box open to send pictures of the condition of the tv. He claims this will significantly reduce the value. I don't buy that for a second. Taking the top portion of the box off to inspect a "new" tv does not make it any less new. How do I know that the tv doesn't have a cracked screen or physical damage. Something just doesn't seem quite right about this. I'm not really getting a good feeling about this and I've always learned to trust my instinct. Thanks for the advice

Due to what you have said above I would run not walk away from this deal wink.gif. The advice of buying a new VT60 or ZT60 is excellent advice. You will be getting a brand new display with up to date features, full warranty and PQ that will most likely rival that of the Pioneer.

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post #10 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Due to what you have said above I would run not walk away from this deal wink.gif. The advice of buying a new VT60 or ZT60 is excellent advice. You will be getting a brand new display with up to date features, full warranty and PQ that will most likely rival that of the Pioneer.

Bill

Here is the latest email from the seller:

"You actually have a lot more protection than you realize. If you click on the link again you will see a picture of the PayPal website with a circle in that picture that has been magnified. It is easy to overlook however it says that you have 45 days to report any problem with your purchase to PayPal. Of course you would be protected if the tv does not turn on. That would fall under significantly not as described.

Why don't you just pay using your credit card? That way you will have months to file a charge back with your credit card company if any goes wrong.

I really don't see you having problems....I mean I can't even remember any tv ever breaking on me no matter how long I owned it. People just get new ones because they want to look at something different. I mean think about it....every tv you have ever owned....has it ever broken?.....This one is new and factory sealed. No one has gone so far as to peel the plastic off it. Plus like you pointed out....it's the best tv ever made.

I am not trying to avoid calling you. It's just so late now. There is no rush though. I found out that I will need to verify my bank account with PayPal in order to complete the sale which will take a couple days.

I also require a two working day handling time for order to ship. This helps protects me against payments that end up getting declined and that sort of thing....That being said it may be best to simply wait until Sunday to send the invoice. That way you will not have your payment tied up all weekend and I will be able to have your tracking number to you Tuesday around lunch time."

So what do you guys think?

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post #11 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 07:17 AM
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I agree with Glashub sounds like the same guy off of Amazon & Ebay. Obviously your gut is telling you something’s wrong with the deal and I bet its right!!
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post #12 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I agree with Glashub sounds like the same guy off of Amazon & Ebay. Obviously your gut is telling you something’s wrong with the deal and I bet its right!!

This is the same guy off of Amazon! He had it posted new for $3,000 and said it was located in Atlanta, GA which is where I live. I emailed him and asked if we could arrange a local pickup that way I could see it in person. His response was:

"I am not in GA though. I had a friend list the tv for me on amazon. I removed the listing because I thought that I had found a buyer however it appears that they are backing out of the deal. I could come down a little on the price if we were to do the deal through PayPal instead of Amazon because the fees are rather high on Amazon. With PayPal you would have full purchase protection in the event that anything unexpected happens. https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/safe-online-shopping"

Is it a good or bad thing that its the same guy? I don't mind some risk but I don't want to be part of a scam. I would think if someone lists something on Amazon it would have to be legit. My biggest concern is the fact that this tv has been sitting around in a box for 3-4 years and there's something wrong with it. I don't know.

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post #13 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 07:33 AM
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My post from the other thread - "Sounds like the same guy who has been trying to sell Elites on Amazon, eBay and here, http://goodbuyz57.weebly.com/

Or you could buy from this guy who has 1 bid from some one who created an accoutn so they could bid on the item.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200901864123&item=200901864123&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466

Do your homework -- call the CC company, etc. and ask them what they will/will not cover"
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It's a scam dude!!!

He had the tv for 2997.00 on Amazon -- no buyers ---then the same tv on eBay with 2 phoney bids. When I inquired he sent this even though he had 2 bids -

"Here is the photo you requested. Would you be interested in purchasing the TV in a Buy Now instead? If so what would be your Best Offer?"

Here is the picture he sent for the tv on Amazon and eBay.



Your choice now -- I've done my best to protect you like a good fellow forum member.
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post #14 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 07:42 AM
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I’ve been sent that exact picture through different ads!! Scam!!
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post #15 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

Here is the latest email from the seller:

"You actually have a lot more protection than you realize. If you click on the link again you will see a picture of the PayPal website with a circle in that picture that has been magnified. It is easy to overlook however it says that you have 45 days to report any problem with your purchase to PayPal. Of course you would be protected if the tv does not turn on. That would fall under significantly not as described.

Why don't you just pay using your credit card? That way you will have months to file a charge back with your credit card company if any goes wrong.

I really don't see you having problems....I mean I can't even remember any tv ever breaking on me no matter how long I owned it. People just get new ones because they want to look at something different. I mean think about it....every tv you have ever owned....has it ever broken?.....This one is new and factory sealed. No one has gone so far as to peel the plastic off it. Plus like you pointed out....it's the best tv ever made.

I am not trying to avoid calling you. It's just so late now. There is no rush though. I found out that I will need to verify my bank account with PayPal in order to complete the sale which will take a couple days.

I also require a two working day handling time for order to ship. This helps protects me against payments that end up getting declined and that sort of thing....That being said it may be best to simply wait until Sunday to send the invoice. That way you will not have your payment tied up all weekend and I will be able to have your tracking number to you Tuesday around lunch time."

So what do you guys think?


Make him answer how/why does he have a TV that is in ultra high demand just sitting in a box brand new for 3 years and then going to sell it for LESS than what they we're going for at discount in the stores? Whoever had that TV could have sold it years ago for an easy profit....why would you sell it now in March of 2013 for LESS money? Why would you store it for all this time? Is he in the business of buying ultra expensive TVs, storing them for years and selling them for less money? Wow what a great business plan!
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post #16 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

My post from the other thread - "Sounds like the same guy who has been trying to sell Elites on Amazon, eBay and here, http://goodbuyz57.weebly.com/

Or you could buy from this guy who has 1 bid from some one who created an accoutn so they could bid on the item.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200901864123&item=200901864123&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466

Do your homework -- call the CC company, etc. and ask them what they will/will not cover"
________________

It's a scam dude!!!

He had the tv for 2997.00 on Amazon -- no buyers ---then the same tv on eBay with 2 phoney bids. When I inquired he sent this even though he had 2 bids -

"Here is the photo you requested. Would you be interested in purchasing the TV in a Buy Now instead? If so what would be your Best Offer?"

Here is the picture he sent for the tv on Amazon and eBay.



Your choice now -- I've done my best to protect you like a good fellow forum member.

That's the same picture he sent me! Wow. Complete scam. I'm so thankful for these forums.

Thanks for all the help guys. Saved me alot of headache and money in the long run.

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post #17 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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So here is a recent email I received from the seller after I emailed telling him the deal was off.

"Your ignoring the facts. I am the one who can have my tv stolen and you are the one with layers of protection. The worst thing that can possibly happen to you is that you will have to take 2 minutes out of your day and file a claim with paypal and then wait a week or however long to get refunded.

The reality of the situation is completely the oposite of what you would expect. It is when you pick your TV up in person that you can get riped off because there is no protection after you get the tv home.

No one is sereously going to give you your own original set of photo's that no one else on the internet has. Alot of sellers will not let you see a photo period.

You are talking to a lot of people that simply have "a funny feeling or a hunch". I have been to these forums before and there is not a single person who has lost any money....lol"

Scam???

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post #18 of 31 Old 03-06-2013, 09:09 AM
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There's not one thing about that guys response that sounds legit at all.

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post #19 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 07:21 AM
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Well he's right in that PP or whoever should give you protection - you can always call them to make sure, on top of that VISA should offer you some protection as well. He could be using the same picture becuz...really its just the box.

Not many ppl are willing to shell out $4k for a 5 year old TV, and i can understand his feelings about opening the box.

If youre feeling brave, trust PP/VISA and really wanna check out a Kuro - then go for it lol.

I'd personally get a VT60/ZT60 but..thats just me.
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post #20 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 07:37 AM
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The guy’s stories are so out to lunch… Got the kuro for Christmas and never opened it lol… I mean who is seriously going to believe that!!
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post #21 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 07:55 AM
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Well he's right in that PP or whoever should give you protection - you can always call them to make sure, on top of that VISA should offer you some protection as well. He could be using the same picture becuz...really its just the box.

Not many ppl are willing to shell out $4k for a 5 year old TV, and i can understand his feelings about opening the box.

If youre feeling brave, trust PP/VISA and really wanna check out a Kuro - then go for it lol.

I'd personally get a VT60/ZT60 but..thats just me.

I don't know how Paypal's protection works, but i have seen lots of threads on my various BMW forums where people buying expensive wheels and other stuff have been scammed by fake sellers and Paypal couldn't/wouldn't/didn't help recover the lost money, despite the buyer thinking he'd be covered by their so-called Buyer Protection plan.

Scammers know how to work the Paypal system and even how to work the credit card system - it's what they do and they're good at it. There are loopholes and exclusions in the fine print and the scammers know how to navigate it.

Also, anyone with an old Kuro carton can make it look like it's been un-opened. The banding strapping that came on my two friends' Kuros is pretty much the same as the banding my company buys from Smart and Final. Even if an unsuspecting buyer were to receive the Kuro box in the photo, it could just be a few slabs of particle board inside and not an actual TV. But i bet anyone sending payment to such sellers probably wouldn't even get the box.

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post #22 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

So here is a recent email I received from the seller after I emailed telling him the deal was off.

"Your ignoring the facts. I am the one who can have my tv stolen and you are the one with layers of protection. The worst thing that can possibly happen to you is that you will have to take 2 minutes out of your day and file a claim with paypal and then wait a week or however long to get refunded.

The reality of the situation is completely the oposite of what you would expect. It is when you pick your TV up in person that you can get riped off because there is no protection after you get the tv home.

No one is sereously going to give you your own original set of photo's that no one else on the internet has. Alot of sellers will not let you see a photo period.

You are talking to a lot of people that simply have "a funny feeling or a hunch". I have been to these forums before and there is not a single person who has lost any money....lol"

Scam???

Well for all the reasons given so far the most prudent choice would obviously be something new instead. I just don't think you'd be looking at NOS sealed in box kuros in the first place if you were just trying to make a pure value move here. And this guy may very well be a scammer, but let's not turn everything into a red flag- I can understand him not wanting to break the seal on the box for a potential buyer, because it does lower the value, by how much IDK, but it does generally; the buyer is by far the most protected party using paypal/ebay, if something's wrong with it you are protected; & using the same photos as elsewhere is not unusual if the same guy is trying to sell it on multiple sites.

The changing of stories, selling it for a friend, just never got around to opening a christmas present(?!) etc., & especially not being willing to take new photos for you are potentially legitimate red flags. I'd insist on original photos maybe with some kind of unique marker or something in them for you at the very least. If so, & you want it, offer what it's wort to you, take screenshots of every page, pic, & claim he makes, use paypal/ebay (maybe touch base with THEM & run potential worse case scenarios & what THEY will do in case of that first), & you are protected. OTOH if you're coming in here asking for advice while telling us your gut is screaming scam, what do you expect anyone to say?! Of course not. Even if it was from a trusted friend, & you knew it was perfect, most of us aren't talking you into buying a NOS tv when currently available fully warrantied models are at worst very close to equal to it in some respects & far better in others.

Good luck.
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post #23 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 09:00 AM
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I really do not understand why the OP is still discussing this after many members here told him to avoid the seller. It is a SCAM plain and simple but the OP is still asking members here if they think it is a SCAM. C'mon man wink.gif!

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post #24 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 09:06 AM
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Ask the seller for the serial number that we all know is on the outside of the box. Then watch
the excuses the seller comes up on why they cannot provide the number.

If they do produce a serial number then phone Pioneer and see if it is even legit.

"If the deal is too to be true" well we all know the rest.
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post #25 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 09:21 AM
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Ask the seller for the serial number that we all know is on the outside of the box. Then watch
the excuses the seller comes up on why they cannot provide the number.

If they do produce a serial number then phone Pioneer and see if it is even legit.

"If the deal is too to be true" well we all know the rest.

Why bother? Maybe the seller has a legit serial number that he can give the OP from some other TV he doesn't even have.

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post #26 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 09:41 AM
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Why bother? Maybe the seller has a legit serial number that he can give the OP from some other TV he doesn't even have.

Bill

True that it won't prove he's legit even if he provides a sn, but if Pioneer has record of that sn being registered to another user already, or as he said if the guy refused to do even that he'd be exposed too. I'd try to research & document every thing like that first if you're seriously considering it.

Ultimately as said scammers are always ahead on how to win, even if the system is stacked in favor of buyers. Just accept the fact that it's somewhat of a gamble if you go for it, so if you're not willing don't, but I just think if it's a pure scam, empty box or non functioning out of the box or something, I think you'll be plenty protected between paypal/cc & ebay.
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post #27 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 09:49 AM
 
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$2,500 is way overpriced. Back in November 2010 i bought a 50" KURO 500M for $1,000 (used).
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post #28 of 31 Old 03-07-2013, 08:54 PM
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Have the seller post

Some weeks ago i emailed a guy who was selling a Kuro for $2997 and asked what city the TV was shipping from, he replied, then i replied back the next day that i have a relative in a nearby city less than an hour away that can drive over and buy the TV on the spot, but he stopped replying after that.

Have him take a picture of the TV while holding up the front page of his local newspaper with the current headlines clearly visible - if he does so that would at least prove that he has the carton in his possession, but that's obviously no guarantee that there's a new Kuro inside.

Any legitimate seller is surely going to know that potential buyers would be skeptical and would be willing to "break the seal" the box and provide pictures of the actual TV as proof that it does exist, and that it hasn't been sitting in that box with a shattered panel for the last 3 years, and would probably be willing to power it up to prove it works. For that much money, i'd turn it on for a few minutes and make a video of it with some content up on the screen and display the Hours Used menu to prove it's new and working properly. A 5-minute test will show zero hours and only one instance of powering on. THAT would help sell the TV. But a scammer knows that there's at least one dumbass out there who will send payment just on his word.

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post #29 of 31 Old 03-16-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

That's the same picture he sent me! Wow. Complete scam. I'm so thankful for these forums.

Thanks for all the help guys. Saved me alot of headache and money in the long run.

My memory might be playing tricks on me, but I'm almost certain that I have also seen that exact picture.

It was in a Craiglist for sale posting, which appeared to be legitimate. It said something along the lines of "This is a brand new Pioneer Kuro Elite, still in it's opened box. The screen is cracked, so it is being sold for parts". The asking price was something like $400.
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post #30 of 31 Old 03-17-2013, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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This is definitely a scam. Once I started questioning him more and asking for additional proof, he never emailed back. The old saying is true, if it seems too good to be true, it is.

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