2012 ST-50 Burn-In from Fox News Channel Logo - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 03-11-2013, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey folks,

Bought my 2012 ST-50 (50") on Nov. 30, and I love the set. Fox News is one of my favorite channels, so I've been watching it quite a lot.

A couple of days ago I was watching something that had a full white screen for several seconds, and I noticed a slight "shadow" in the bottom left corner of the screen. Since I bought the TV, I've done a lot of reading on this site and others about PDPs, so I know about IR and burn-in.

The "shadow" is slight, and only visible when whatever content I am watching briefly displays a uniform color in that part of the screen. The shape of the shadow does seem to correspond to the shape of the Fox News logo that is ever-present on their broadcasts.

Even though the logo rotates, it's not transparent. (I understand that transparent logos are less likely to cause IR and burn-in.)

I've been using D-Nice's recommended settings for ST-50s that haven't run the slides.

My question is, can I expect the shadow to eventually go away if I watch full-screen content and stay off Fox News Channel? Is there anything else I can do to get rid of this? As I say, it's very minor at this point, and no one else watching the set would likely notice. But, now that I've noticed it, it is a distraction to me, because I'm constantly looking for it.

I wish Fox would go to a transparent logo to reduce the risk of this for their viewers. I love Fox, and I would say, prior to discovering this problem, I was on Fox probably at least 60-70% of the time that the TV was on.

Do I have to permanently stay off Fox News Channel and other national news networks now? I hate that I paid this much for this PDP and now it may not only be damaged, but I may have to stay off one of my favorite channels.

Any other suggestions? Comments?
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post #2 of 42 Old 03-11-2013, 12:23 PM
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Run a pixar movie, it will go away.
Also if you watch that station can you zoom in to where the logo is off screen?
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post #3 of 42 Old 03-11-2013, 05:42 PM
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post #4 of 42 Old 03-11-2013, 05:46 PM
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OK, so aside from the obvious suggestion to get your news from other sources.... smile.gif

The reality is what you're almost certainly seeing is temporary and not permanent. The more you watch things that aren't Fox News, the less visible the logo will become.

You could do any or all of the following:

1) Watch other stuff, preferably lots of other stuff... Normally, you can probably watch a single channel with a logo for something like, I dunno, 25% of the time without it getting retained. Since you are at more than 2x that according to your guesstimate, the retention will be a bit more stubborn.

2) Hit the Zoom button when you watch Fox some of the time so the logo moves somewhere else. The logo will split its time this way and be less "retained" in one place.

3) Really focus on not paying attention to it

4) Leave the TV on other content (preferably without a corner logo) when you aren't watching. The more time the TV spends not on that channel, the sooner the logo will go away

5) Try lower brightness / contrast settings, perhaps a somewhat brighter version of the "eco" mode on the TV (which is too dark). If you are at lower than normal settings, the retention will be reduced. Only use that setting when watching Fox News.

Now, that said, if you really watch Fox News that much, then 2/3 of the time, the logo is actually on so it can't really be bothering you that it's "retained". That's a good ratio of not being bothered, I'd say.

On another note, politics aside, Fox News spends a lot of time agitating its audience, getting it angry about stuff "those Democrats are up to." It might be a good thing for your sanity to just watch less of it anyway so that you aren't always so angry about whatever they are angry about today. I'm not say change your politics -- that's really up to you -- but if you watched less Fox News, you'd probably end up better able to calmly discuss your beliefs with people and more open to questioning specific things in them. And really, that's always a good thing. (See my signature in this post and the guy who wrote the quote for more on that.)

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #5 of 42 Old 03-11-2013, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses. I guess I had assumed it had to be burn-in, since it's been a few days since I first noticed it and its still there. Maybe I just haven't given it time to resolve.

I have to admit, it is VERY slight, and totally un-noticeable unless, as I say, the screen happens to display a solid color in that bottom corner. Even then, it's not noticeable unless the picture moves. Then, there's just a small, stationary shadow effect.

So, you guys are of the opinion that it is just temporary IR?

I have been staying off FNC, and I will post updates on this thread on the problem.
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post #6 of 42 Old 03-11-2013, 09:48 PM
 
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I recommend Fox Business (I can't recall if they have an intrusive logo because I don't watch tabloid cable news infotainment anymore). Whatever you do, stay away from MSNBC and CNN (pretty sure they also have those nasty logos, though that's only one reason from a long laundry list to avoid them wink.gif).
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post #7 of 42 Old 03-11-2013, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john pifer View Post

....

I have to admit, it is VERY slight, and totally un-noticeable unless, as I say, the screen happens to display a solid color in that bottom corner. Even then, it's not noticeable unless the picture moves. Then, there's just a small, stationary shadow effect.

....

If it's that slight, yep, mixing up your viewing (actually everything Rogo said, especially with regards to taking down the brightness and contrast) should help. Then while you're watching other stuff try and ignore that area.
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post #8 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john pifer View Post

Thanks for the responses. I guess I had assumed it had to be burn-in, since it's been a few days since I first noticed it and its still there. Maybe I just haven't given it time to resolve.

I have to admit, it is VERY slight, and totally un-noticeable unless, as I say, the screen happens to display a solid color in that bottom corner. Even then, it's not noticeable unless the picture moves. Then, there's just a small, stationary shadow effect.

So, you guys are of the opinion that it is just temporary IR?

It's my opinion -- based on the science of how the display works -- that it's in fact "temporary image retention". But that said, even something that's temporary can be stubbornly persistent. I don't know precisely how long you've been running Fox News, but let's say 5 hours a day for 3 months and that's about 2/3 of your viewing... So it turns out because of the reliability of the logo being there, it could really take a while before all traces of it disappear. Eventually, more mixed viewing -- and some of the other ideas -- should preclude it from recurring as a persistent element.

Since it's so subtle, it'll probably become even more subtle over a shorter period of time.

I actually think that, if anything, this point outs how non-serious the concerns around burn-in really are. I realize others will draw opposite conclusions.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #9 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 12:27 AM
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I have the Fox News logo basically burned in to my P42S1 plasma too, so you're not alone. I didn't notice it and identify it for the longest time, so when I finally did it was pretty much stuck their. The good news is that unless it's a screen of all one color, like a commercial, I would never notice it during regular viewing.

I also watch a lot of Fox News, and when we are gone we leave the TV on for our pets. Since the Fox News logo rotates I thought it might be a bit less susceptible to burn in. I was incorrect.
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

politics aside, Fox News spends a lot of time agitating its audience, getting it angry about stuff "those Democrats are up to." It might be a good thing for your sanity to just watch less of it anyway so that you aren't always so angry about whatever they are angry about today. I'm not say change your politics -- that's really up to you -- but if you watched less Fox News, you'd probably end up better able to calmly discuss your beliefs with people and more open to questioning specific things in them. And really, that's always a good thing. (See my signature in this post and the guy who wrote the quote for more on that.)

Just gotta say, with a preface of "politics aside", this sounds about like politics exactly. smile.gif
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post #10 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by john pifer View Post

My question is, can I expect the shadow to eventually go away if I watch full-screen content and stay off Fox News Channel? Is there anything else I can do to get rid of this? As I say, it's very minor at this point, and no one else watching the set would likely notice. But, now that I've noticed it, it is a distraction to me, because I'm constantly looking for it.

Unfortunately, channel logos continue to be the bane of a PDPs existence to this day. I own a 2005 Panasonic PDP w/many 1000s of hours of operation that is still susceptible to persistent image retention of a channel’s logo if I watch one station too often.

The only way I know to reverse this kind of image retention is to:

1) Avoid watching that particular channel

2) Run full screen content w/o logos whenever possible (e.g. movies on HBO)

57 years of life leads me to believe that by-and-large FOX News provides the most honest coverage regarding the issues we face today. Unfortunately, with their omnipresent logos and crawling news ticker FOX is one of the least PDP friendly TV broadcasters.

(“Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.” - Winston Churchill)
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post #11 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 08:04 AM
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I've got an extremely faint History channel logo retained on my 65ST30....maybe watched the channel 1-2 hours per day. I have not tried removing it as it' s barely perceptible even when looking for it on a white background, but I did use slides when not watching my set during the direct 500 hours or so and it still happened to an extent.

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post #12 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

57 years of life leads me to believe that by-and-large FOX News provides the most honest coverage regarding the issues we face today. Unfortunately, with their omnipresent logos and crawling news ticker FOX is one of the least PDP friendly TV broadcasters.

(“Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.” - Winston Churchill)


I am pretty sure you can get more accurate news from Comedy Central and no IR from their logo to boot, but what do I know I have only been around for 36 years wink.gif ...
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post #13 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I've heard that transparent channel logos are less-damaging. For example, the Outdoors Channel.
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post #14 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 09:41 AM
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I am pretty sure you can get more accurate news from Comedy Central and no IR from their logo to boot, but what do I know I have only been around for 36 years wink.gif ...

Didn't you read the quote by Winston Churchill? I believe that explains it all.

Trust me, young man, eventually you will change your opinions.

Why I'm so old I can remember watching Black & White TV w/only (3) channels available.

(Hey Verizon FiOS... give me The Blaze TV)
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post #15 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 10:04 AM
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My Grandma is 85 and prefers Comedy Central. So that settles that. wink.gif

It's funny this came up. Having a PDP I have stopped watching 'news' channels for the most part. Plus, it's nice not having programming on that's 'yelling' at me - one way or the other.

'News' Channel IR was a concern when I got my PDP - my wife likes to watch a few of those kind of shows. So far it hasn't been a concern.

My other concern was the sprout kids channel…lots of 4:3 content. So far so good. I just have to remind her to hit the p-size button and stretch out that picture from time to time.
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post #16 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 10:18 AM
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Didn't you read the quote by Winston Churchill? I believe that explains it all.

Trust me, young man, eventually you will change your opinions.


Life lessons from a self proclaimed "old man" on internet AV forums, post of the day! rolleyes.gif

Other quotes from your so "culturally" relevant Winston Churchill - " I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place."

I hope one day I too can be cynical enough to think Fox News is filled of real news stories. By then OLED will be at a standard Plasma TV price points and we can reminisce over the good old days of CRT TVs and 480i images over the rabbit ears.
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post #17 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 10:25 AM
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My other concern was the sprout kids channel…lots of 4:3 content. So far so good. I just have to remind her to hit the p-size button and stretch out that picture from time to time.

My - Pioneer, LG, and Panasonic Plasmas have all three made it through Sprout, Nogin, Disney Jr, and Nick Jr with my 2 year old and 6 year old sense 2006 with no issues of IR on any of them.
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Life lessons from a self proclaimed "old man" on internet AV forums, post of the day! rolleyes.gif

Other quotes from your so "culturally" relevant Winston Churchill - " I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place."

I hope one day I too can be cynical enough to think Fox News is filled of real news stories. By then OLED will be at a standard Plasma TV price points and we can reminisce over the good old days of CRT TVs and 480i images over the rabbit ears.
Yea, Margaret Sanger, queen of Planned Parenthood, had some pretty interesting thoughts on eugenics and undesirables as well. wink.gif And by the same token, Comedy Central isn't any more "real" than Fox News. They just appeal to your biases, like all of the aforementioned networks.
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post #19 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chifanpoe View Post

Life lessons from a self proclaimed "old man" on internet AV forums, post of the day! rolleyes.gif

Other quotes from your so "culturally" relevant Winston Churchill - " I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place."

I hope one day I too can be cynical enough to think Fox News is filled of real news stories. By then OLED will be at a standard Plasma TV price points and we can reminisce over the good old days of CRT TVs and 480i images over the rabbit ears.

Hopefully you're as good at math as you are with trading the barbs because then you'll acknowledge with nearly $17T of US debt, increasing at a rate of $1T per year, is unsustainable.

With Bernanke's monetary policy that OLED you want is more likely to set you back $100,000.

I refuse to be held accountable for the sins of our forefathers, but if it wasn't for the sacrifice made by the WWII generation you would not be enjoying the life style you have today.

(If you can call living in your parent's basement and waiting tables at the TGI Friday's a life style)
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Haven't you heard, 9179, Keynesians are magicians. wink.gif Consider yourself followed, by the way (and I'm only 35).
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post #21 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

Hopefully you're as good at math as you are with trading the barbs because then you'll acknowledge with nearly $17T of US debt, increasing at a rate of $1T per year, is unsustainable.

With Bernanke's monetary policy that OLED you want is more likely to set you back $100,000.

I refuse to be held accountable for the sins of our forefathers, but if it wasn't for the sacrifice made by the WWII generation you would not be enjoying the life style you have today. /quote]

Well thankfully I can afford a new Sony OLED today so I better run out and get it now at the bargain price of only $25,000. When I get it home and setup in the HT I will be sure to fire up Saving Private Ryan and The Thin Red Line. Then I will call my grand father and thank him for his services flying in a B24 over Europe in WWII smile.gif (and to keep on topic OLED will not suffer from IR tongue.gif)
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post #22 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 01:09 PM
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I have been concerned about image retention with a plasma, but this thread convinced me it's not as big an issue as it's made out to be by proponents of LED Tvs. If I had to choose between flashlighting and ghosting vs image retention issues, I'd pick the IR every time.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, here's my .02 on content: there's nothing wrong with FOX, as long as you spend equal time on CNN. Both of these networks are knee-jerk, neither of them tells the whole story, but somewhere betwixt the two lies the truth if you do some digging. Moderation is key, followed by serious research. I miss the days when network news was all that it could be, but that went the way of real journalism - neither could turn a profit, and were replaced with the current media circus.
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post #23 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 01:30 PM
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I have been concerned about image retention with a plasma, but this thread convinced me it's not as big an issue as it's made out to be by proponents of LED Tvs. If I had to choose between flashlighting and ghosting vs image retention issues, I'd pick the IR every time.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, here's my .02 on content: there's nothing wrong with FOX, as long as you spend equal time on CNN. Both of these networks are knee-jerk, neither of them tells the whole story, but somewhere betwixt the two lies the truth if you do some digging. Moderation is key, followed by serious research. I miss the days when network news was all that it could be, but that went the way of real journalism - neither could turn a profit, and were replaced with the current media circus.
Quite the opposite here. I recently picked up an LED tv and keep questioning if I should look at a plasma instead as I keep reading how good the pictures are. Then I read threads like this and the plasma idea goes right out of my head.
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post #24 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quite the opposite here. I recently picked up an LED tv and keep questioning if I should look at a plasma instead as I keep reading how good the pictures are. Then I read threads like this and the plasma idea goes right out of my head.

I have never had an issue with IR on any of my 3 Plasma TVs over the years. I broke all 3 of them in with slides for about 200 hours each, then had them each ISF calibrated. With many hours and years of TV, Movies, and Video Game use none of them (yes even the LG) suffer from major IR issues. The Pioneer (600M) and Panasonic (65VT50) I never see anything even remotely close to IR. The LG (50PK950) will get a tiny bit of IR after a long gaming sessions with a HUD or MAP up but it always goes away after 15-30 seconds of some other type of media.

I don't think you have much to worry about if you properly set the TV up from the onset.
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post #25 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 02:57 PM
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I have never had an issue with IR on any of my 3 Plasma TVs over the years. I broke all 3 of them in with slides for about 200 hours each, then had them each ISF calibrated. With many hours and years of TV, Movies, and Video Game use none of them (yes even the LG) suffer from major IR issues. The Pioneer (600M) and Panasonic (65VT50) I never see anything even remotely close to IR. The LG (50PK950) will get a tiny bit of IR after a long gaming sessions with a HUD or MAP up but it always goes away after 15-30 seconds of some other type of media.

I don't think you have much to worry about if you properly set the TV up from the onset.

That has nothing to do with properly setting up the TV. You just have good luck with plasmas. biggrin.gif
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post #26 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 04:11 PM
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Quite the opposite here. I recently picked up an LED tv and keep questioning if I should look at a plasma instead as I keep reading how good the pictures are. Then I read threads like this and the plasma idea goes right out of my head.

Well...I think this guy's story shows you chose wisely. He didn't do any break-in and watched fox news for hours and hours on end and all he got was a slight image retention that shows a "faint outline" when he is on a single color, and there's a way to take care of it - it's not even permanent. A few hours of Pixar movies and he's good as gold. I read that as it's not much of an issue for me - I watch maybe three hours of TV a week, and mostly movies. My daughter does play some xbox gaming, but it just gives me a better reason to limit her to 90 minutes a day of gaming on this set.

So the big comparison...

The "possibility of shortime inconvenience if I allow IR to happen" coupled with better blacks/color/motion VS the bar of light following objects shown against a black background is as well as some level of ghosting or halo, and mediocre picture uniformity, all givens, joined with possible light leakage and super hot spots.

Gee, which should I pick?

rolleyes.gif

PS: The original poster probably got more brain damage from the fox network news than he did damage to his set. LOL.
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rolleyes.gif indeed
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post #28 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by chifanpoe View Post

I have never had an issue with IR on any of my 3 Plasma TVs over the years. I broke all 3 of them in with slides for about 200 hours each, then had them each ISF calibrated. With many hours and years of TV, Movies, and Video Game use none of them (yes even the LG) suffer from major IR issues. The Pioneer (600M) and Panasonic (65VT50) I never see anything even remotely close to IR. The LG (50PK950) will get a tiny bit of IR after a long gaming sessions with a HUD or MAP up but it always goes away after 15-30 seconds of some other type of media.

I don't think you have much to worry about if you properly set the TV up from the onset.

That has nothing to do with properly setting up the TV. You just have good luck with plasmas. biggrin.gif

It's really not about luck.

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post #29 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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In actuality, I probably watched 1-2 hrs/day of FNC, and, some days, virtually none at all.

And, I've only had the set for a little over 90 days. So, probably well less than 150 hrs. on the display, total.

As I said, probably 50-60% of that was Fox.

So, if I do the math, my best guesstimate would be ~60-70 hrs. of Fox News Channel, total.

I'll probably stay off Fox completely for a while and see if the problem resolves. Seems like it's already gotten better since I stopped watching FNC a few days ago and I've been watching full-screen content without logos.
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post #30 of 42 Old 03-12-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

It's really not about luck.

It's really not about prepping the TV either, which was the entire point.
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Closed Thread Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Panasonic Viera S1 Series Tc P42s1 42 Inch 1080p Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P55st50 55 Inch Plasma Tv
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