Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 121 - AVS Forum
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post #3601 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Doesn't Cinema Smooth just raise the black level like it did on some earlier models? The raised black level used to mask brightness fluctuations on the 'D' series. It had nothing to do with motion.

No, that issue no longer exists in this series. I can confirm that, I was a B series owner prior to this set and it upset me to no end that I couldn't use Cinema Smooth for 24 frames because of the raised black level. That is non-existent in this set though, they (finally) fixed it.
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post #3602 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

+1

-1
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post #3603 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 12:58 PM
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For the Kuro fanatic in this thread, here is an honest assessment by one of the top calibrators in the country, UMR, who just last week calibrated my F8500. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who knows the Kuro as well as him (he even owns it.) He gives it the edge, but it's not so night and day like you are trying to imply with the silly photo comparison. biggrin.gif There was another Kuro owner in the room during the calibration as well, and his assessment was the same.
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Originally Posted by Elvamir View Post

So today I finally had my 64" set calibrated by one of the top calibrators in the country, Mr. Jeff Meier (UMR on these forums.) Was an absolute privilege to get him scheduled during his Florida tour, and very cool to be the first F8500 he's laid his hands on! In short - his words - "It is a very impressive set."

He calibrated both my 2D and 3D Movie modes and I am absolutely blown away by the PQ. The accuracy, the clarity, the depth, the film-like presentation, all off the charts excellent! Extremely happy with the results. I won't share all of my settings here, because truthfully white balance settings in particular (and being the main portion of any calibration) do not translate exactly between sets so it would be a misleading representation of the extraordinary talent Jeff possesses (plus I didn't ask if he would be ok with it.) However, I'm more than happy to share some of his observations and comments during he calibration.

- Just to get it out of the way, he was hoping this would be a "kuro-killer" (he himself owns one but it's been out so long he'd love there to be a better plasma introduced just for a change!) but at the end of the calibration deemed it not to be, mainly because of slightly better color accuracy he's observed on the Kuro. However, he says its the best plasma he's seen otherwise, and extremely close overall, even saying that if he hadn't worked with so many Kuros over the years and known its subtleties so well it would be difficult to tell the difference, it's that close. He did think that motion, however, particularly in 24 frames with Cinema Smooth (which he had not been impressed with on previous Samsungs) was superb on the F8500 and slightly better than the Kuro, so there was a point on the board for us. :-) But again, don't despair, the differences were all subtle, not significant. He was still very impressed with the F8500.

- In his expert opinion this is the best 3D of any TV, plasma or otherwise - period. He says Samsung plasma always does it better but this is the best of the best. Clear, zero crosstalk, bright, and just... Correctly executed.

- He expects it will be better than the ZT60.

- In terms of black levels he measured .002 with Optimizer in Dark Room and .005 in bright room. At first he calibrated with Dark Room, but during post measurement adjustments identified that Dark Room clips at near black, limiting white to come through in the low end and effecting flesh tones and overall color hues. This was clearly noticeable by all three of us in attendance. Bright room ended up being the better option to give a much more accurate picture still with awesome blacks (the difference in black level in bright room was measurable but in practical viewing not noticeable given the accurate greyscale calibration. The change in hues in dark room was definitely noticed though.)

There was a ton of other stuff too but these are a few things that come to mind as i write this at 2am. :-P Any questions let me know! I'll be here... Probably watching a movie and drooling at the best PQ I've ever owned. Thanks Jeff, and thanks Samsung!!

On a side note, I also had him calibrate my audio (Integra 50.1 amp with LSi series Polks all around and Monster & KLH subs) and I can't believe how incredible things sound, he knows his stuff! My system has never sounded better!

Here are my post-calibration video results (after measured adjustments. There was still some manual tweaking performed after this.) By the way, my post-calibrated contrast ratio was over 10000:1. And again, he set "bright room" for my black optimizer.

dutugumy.jpg
darybupu.jpg

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post #3604 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 01:00 PM
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Well I am returning my 64F8500 to best buy.

Picked it up today, and found it has a broken off HDMI cable plugged into it. The HDMI port is bent, and wont firmly hold a cable in place.

I called best buy to set up an exchange, and they want $120 to do an in-home exchange. The set has free shipping if you order on bestbuy.com, so WTF. Seems really shady to charge that much to do an exchange.

Gonna return the set and order from Cleveland Plasma.

I have used Best Buy as a showroom for years (checking out items and then ordering online for lower price)...the first time I make a big purchase from them ends up being my last!
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post #3605 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Peake View Post

Well I am returning my 64F8500 to best buy.

Picked it up today, and found it has a broken off HDMI cable plugged into it. The HDMI port is bent, and wont firmly hold a cable in place.

I called best buy to set up an exchange, and they want $120 to do an in-home exchange. The set has free shipping if you order on bestbuy.com, so WTF. Seems really shady to charge that much to do an exchange.

Gonna return the set and order from Cleveland Plasma.

I have used Best Buy as a showroom for years (checking out items and then ordering online for lower price)...the first time I make a big purchase from them ends up being my last!

That was very strange... I agree with you 100%, plus it's nice you're giving a fellow AV member as helpful as Chris has been here will get your business.. biggrin.gif
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post #3606 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cerchiarax View Post

Are you using Plex from the Smart TV or a external player?

Both. I have a Mac Mini hooked up and also test the smart hub app. It has a few audio issues so i like the Mac mini for now but they trying to get Samsung to approve a new version with many new features. i am hoping I can just switch to that once it is approved and use my mini for another TV or purpose.
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post #3607 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

Both. I have a Mac Mini hooked up and also test the smart hub app. It has a few audio issues so i like the Mac mini for now but they trying to get Samsung to approve a new version with many new features. i am hoping I can just switch to that once it is approved and use my mini for another TV or purpose.

Thanks for your quick response, I only ask because you can't get true 24p on plex as cinema smooth remains grayed out on the Samsung smart tv version of Plex. I was hoping you might have a loop hole or something smile.gif

Note: Which in your case the loop hole is Mac Mini

Reference below

http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php/topic/52140-24p-movies/?hl=%2Bcinema+%2Bsmooth#entry317697
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post #3608 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Peake View Post

Well I am returning my 64F8500 to best buy.

Picked it up today, and found it has a broken off HDMI cable plugged into it. The HDMI port is bent, and wont firmly hold a cable in place.

I called best buy to set up an exchange, and they want $120 to do an in-home exchange. The set has free shipping if you order on bestbuy.com, so WTF. Seems really shady to charge that much to do an exchange.

Gonna return the set and order from Cleveland Plasma.

I have used Best Buy as a showroom for years (checking out items and then ordering online for lower price)...the first time I make a big purchase from them ends up being my last!

You made the right choice...I wouldnt have dealt with something like that either, even if I was taking another risk by sending it back. Cleveland Plasma is a great place, theyll treat you right smile.gif

as a bonus I would look into ahving your set broke in and calibrated (if they can do it) of course it will cost, but in the end you may benefit from it
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post #3609 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

I do want to mention that in my experience with this tv, contrary to what others have posted, the frequency of popping is not effected by adjustments to the cell light or the contrast. They do become less noticeable, but I could not, in fact, eliminate a single pop. I'm recording a hockey game tonight just to make sure I'm not crazy, but at the moment, it's my belief that the popping issue is not resolved by lowering the cell light or the contrast, at least not on my set.

Here are my conclusions after the testing the "popping" issue extensively with hockey, golf, movies, etc...

I only tested this on my TV, but, nonetheless, the results were clear and definitive.

Does contrast and cell light settings effect the frequency of pops?

No. There is no correlation between pops and cell light or contrast. In other words, it does not matter how bright and contrasty or dim and dull you set the picture, If a pop happens, they will happen regardless of how these are set. So, I would advise owners to adjust their settings to produce the best possible picture and not make extreme adjustments to limit pops. Pops are simply not triggered by brightness or contrast....these settings have no effect on them. Of course, you won't see them, or anything else, as well with very dim settings.

So what triggers the pops?

It's actually a combination of the color white and movement. All variations of white seemed to be able to produce the pops, except for those that have a yellowish or amber tint to them. which didn't produce a single pop that I could see. Very slow moving or static scenes do not produce pops...you will never see pop in a static picture of the sky, for example, but when the camera moves to pan the sky, that's when pops may occur. With fast movement, like when a camera follows an air plane through sky, the pops can occur in rapid succession, especially when the whites in the sky are broken up with other colors.

Is there more than just one kind of pop?

Yes, I found two types. I'm not sure if both would be considered pops, but both occur as a reaction to the combination of triggering shades of white and movement.

The first type is the one most discussed, a two step adjustment in brightness. You only see this type in the white sections of the screen...the dark sections are not affected. Most everyone know what these look like, so I'll leave it at that.

The second type is more of a flash that occurs much less frequently than the two step type, but effects the entire screen. It happens when the triggering whites appear on various sections of the screen at the same time. For example, on a sunny day on a golf course, the whites will come through the moving leaves of a tree and flicker on the fairway or green, if enough of the whites comes through, the screen will flash. Another example...hockey, which shows the two step pop a lot, when enough players block out enough of the ice, it seems like the set wants to produce the two step pops in just the open ice areas, but can't, so it just flashes the whole screen instead. In other words, if white areas, where the normal two step pops would normally occur, are dispersed enough throughout the screen...in smaller sections...the set just flashes the whole screen instead of producing the two step pops.

There you go...I'm popped out : )
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post #3610 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

I only tested this on my TV, but, nonetheless, the results were clear and definitive.

To risk asking the obvious question, do the pops not occur on another set with the same recorded material, preferably played back using the same source device?
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post #3611 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

To risk asking the obvious question, do the pops not occur on another set with the same recorded material, preferably played back using the same source device?

I have no idea. Some have said they experience no pops at all, but I have a feeling most everyone has them to some degree. They don't happen often on mine, but are consistent when conditions are right. Watching hockey is an easy way to check how sensitive a specific set may be effected by them.
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post #3612 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

To risk asking the obvious question, do the pops not occur on another set with the same recorded material, preferably played back using the same source device?

Thats usually the case wink.gif but then again we have differeing reports form different owners and those that have seen sets as well. so its all over the palce right now wink.gif. Samsung hass said they have a firmware coming out that will fix these issues, but there is no ETA at the moment.....We still cant seem to nail down the root of these "pops" and I have a feeling everyone is not seeing the same thing all of the time....

I am looking forward to hear the repot back after jack gets his set calibrated to see if that makes any difference. Now that he has some verifiable and repeatable material hell be able to compare the before and after...
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post #3613 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Peake View Post

Well I am returning my 64F8500 to best buy.

Picked it up today, and found it has a broken off HDMI cable plugged into it. The HDMI port is bent, and wont firmly hold a cable in place.

I called best buy to set up an exchange, and they want $120 to do an in-home exchange. The set has free shipping if you order on bestbuy.com, so WTF. Seems really shady to charge that much to do an exchange.

Gonna return the set and order from Cleveland Plasma.

I have used Best Buy as a showroom for years (checking out items and then ordering online for lower price)...the first time I make a big purchase from them ends up being my last!

Good for you. $120 in home exchange because of a defect on the set? Wow.
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Has anyone done a hobbyist calibration themselves with Calman or similar and a decent meter?

I'm going to do mine soon. Some more break-in first...
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post #3615 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 02:44 PM
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Has anyone done a hobbyist calibration themselves with Calman or similar and a decent meter?

I'm going to do mine soon. Some more break-in first...

I know Im thinking about it for my next set (whatever it may be)...Ive been looking into software and meters, making my head spin sometimes...I know there is a user in one of the Panasonic threads that did thier own......

Have you choosen a meter and software package yet?
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post #3616 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Has anyone done a hobbyist calibration themselves with Calman or similar and a decent meter?

I'm going to do mine soon. Some more break-in first...

I know Im thinking about it for my next set (whatever it may be)...Ive been looking into software and meters, making my head spin sometimes...I know there is a user in one of the Panasonic threads that did thier own......

Have you choosen a meter and software package yet?
These are great topics for the calibration forum. smile.gif
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post #3617 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 03:00 PM
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Has anyone done a hobbyist calibration themselves with Calman or similar and a decent meter?

I'm going to do mine soon. Some more break-in first...

Good. Please share your MLL measurements. I'm very curious to see how the 51" performs, and I haven't found any measurements yet.
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post #3618 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 03:07 PM
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These are great topics for the calibration forum. smile.gif

yes I know wink.gif Ive been going there off and on smile.gif
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post #3619 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

I have no idea. Some have said they experience no pops at all, but I have a feeling most everyone has them to some degree. They don't happen often on mine, but are consistent when conditions are right. Watching hockey is an easy way to check how sensitive a specific set may be effected by them.

well you are certainly correct about the frequent pops in hockey, however I have to disagree w/ you on the rest. my set at cell 20/cont 82 has substantially reduced the abl pop effect. it is triggered with hockey like you say, but scenes with bright sky's or skiing, snowy mountain tops etc has been reduced greatly.

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post #3620 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Thats usually the case wink.gif but then again we have differeing reports form different owners and those that have seen sets as well. so its all over the palce right now wink.gif. Samsung hass said they have a firmware coming out that will fix these issues, but there is no ETA at the moment.....We still cant seem to nail down the root of these "pops" and I have a feeling everyone is not seeing the same thing all of the time....

I am looking forward to hear the repot back after jack gets his set calibrated to see if that makes any difference. Now that he has some verifiable and repeatable material hell be able to compare the before and after...

as much as I want to believe Samsung will, this particular mfg raises my eyebrows the most. Samsung is set in their ways, that is for sure.

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post #3621 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 03:43 PM
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as much as I want to believe Samsung will, this particular mfg raises my eyebrows the most. Samsung is set in their ways, that is for sure.

I agree with you there, Ill believe when i see it wink.gif I know Robert from VE is confident that one will be released......
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post #3622 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 03:46 PM
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I agree with you there, Ill believe when i see it wink.gif I know Robert from VE is confident that one will be released......
\

Robert said he is hoping it will be out before the Shootout on May the 10th

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\

Robert said he is hoping it will be out before the Shootout on May the 10th

yea, I spoke w/ him on this matter. he thinks it would be in beta form at first.

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post #3624 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 03:51 PM
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\

Robert said he is hoping it will be out before the Shootout on May the 10th

I was thinking taht would be the "smart" move to make, but hey what do I know wink.gif
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post #3625 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 04:03 PM
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These are great topics for the calibration forum. smile.gif

yes I know wink.gif Ive been going there off and on smile.gif
Yes I know. biggrin.gif
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post #3626 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 04:06 PM
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as much as I want to believe Samsung will, this particular mfg raises my eyebrows the most. Samsung is set in their ways, that is for sure.

I agree with you there, Ill believe when i see it wink.gif I know Robert from VE is confident that one will be released......
Robert is always confident others will do the right thing. smile.gif
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post #3627 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 04:13 PM
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Just returned from returning my 64f8500 to best buy. They offered to knock $100 off if I would keep the set. I just laughed. First they want to charge me $120 for an in-home exchange/delivery (on a set that offers free shipping), but then offer to knock $100 off.

Now I just have to decide whether I can wait for the VE shootout or just order another sammy now. My old DLP is dead so I am without a TV at the moment. Plus the picture on the 8500 was jaw-dropping.....
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post #3628 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 04:13 PM
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post #3629 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 04:25 PM
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http://homecinemaguru.com/?p=3548

Sony 4K XBR LED LCD

This display is one of the few 4K displays on the market. It delivers amazing image quality for 4K or up-scaled 1080p after proper setup. This product can be much brighter than plasma and is very bright for 3D compared to any other products. The surface of this product does not reject reflections from windows and other light sources very well like most displays on the market. Like most LCD products the image quality degrades as the viewer moves off the center axis of the image.



Samsung F8000 LED LCD

These displays offer some of the best 3D and 2D image quality available today after proper setup. This product can be much brighter than a plasma. The surface of this product does not reject reflections from windows and other light sources very well like most displays on the market. Like most LCD products the image quality degrades as the viewer moves off the center axis of the image.

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post #3630 of 12270 Old 04-24-2013, 04:35 PM
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