Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 124 - AVS Forum
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post #3691 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ That's up to you! There is no backlight. Most keep the Cell Light up at 18-20 and adjust contrast, gamma and brightness to taste.

Do people get offended when cell light is called backlight? I was corrected on another forum for making this mistake yesterday, just wondering smile.gif

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post #3692 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:00 AM
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I don't use PC mode, so can't comment sorry.

I'm asking this because right now my Sony LCD is hooked to my PC through my ONKYO AMP so whenever I switch to the PC input it forces the TV to go into PC mode where most of the settings are disabled.

So do you mean that there is no PC mode and you can just freely hook the pc to the TV where all settings are available?

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post #3693 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

Ok, anyone got any good calibrated settings, preferably something in Standard mode

Check the F8500 Settings thread wink.gif

Not sure if anyone is using standard however, I think most people are starting with Movie and going from there.....
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post #3694 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

Do people get offended when cell light is called backlight? I was corrected on another forum for making this mistake yesterday, just wondering smile.gif

Not offended, just dont want to mix the terms up as it can make things confusing wink.gif there ARE those that will get a little annoyed at it I guess, but for the most part, I dont think people really care
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post #3695 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:04 AM
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polakis, you may want to call Samsung to ahve someone look at your TV or try to exchange it, If I remember correctly youve had a few issues with the set you own..

Thats was with my previous 64E8000. I sold it and took the new F8500
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post #3696 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

What is your video card? If using RGB check your dynamic range settings. If using YCbCr, dynamic range does not factor in.

Are you feeding HDMI through an AMP to the TV? If so, check there are no image adjustments happening on the AMP.

It should be YCbCr as far as I know, but I am not sure. It's a Mac Mini with an nVidia GeForce 320M. I am using the HDMI output (which is supposed to be putting out YCbCr automatically if a TV is detected). It's connected directly to the TV, HDMI port 1.

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AHve you tried the "PC" input trick to see if that helps at all? Rename the input that you have your HTPC plugged into to "PC" it may kill adjsutments, but see if that changes anything. You may also want to check the output of your HTPC to see if you can change it as that may help as well..

No, haven't tried renaming the input yet. What exactly is that supposed to change?

I am wondering why my HDMI level option is greyed out. I know people reported about this earlier in the thread but I can't find it anymore.
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post #3697 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Thats was with my previous 64E8000. I sold it and took the new F8500

Witht he bands you ahve been seeing Im not sure if thats normal or not, which is why I suggested to make a call. This way youll know for sure if this is normal or not. Youve seen bands in other places as well form normal viewing distance ( trying to remember your previous posts). It dosent hurt to call and find out smile.gif
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post #3698 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:12 AM
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It should be YCbCr as far as I know, but I am not sure. It's a Mac Mini with an nVidia GeForce 320M. I am using the HDMI output (which is supposed to be putting out YCbCr automatically if a TV is detected). It's connected directly to the TV, HDMI port 1.
No, haven't tried renaming the input yet. What exactly is that supposed to change?

I am wondering why my HDMI level option is greyed out. I know people reported about this earlier in the thread but I can't find it anymore.


Not sure exactly what it changes to tell you the truth, but I know its a trick some used to use to lwoer the input lag when gaming. It does lock out some of the picture adjustments though, nothing harmed with testing it out wink.gif

As far the HDMI, its locked unless an RGB signal is sent (If I am remembering what has been said before)
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post #3699 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

What are the recommended settings for the backlight, brightness and contrast in the break in period?

For regular viewing I kept my settings a tad lower then my ideal preferences but when heading to bed I knocked down the cell light down to 10, brightness 35 and contrast to 50(obviously no logos or black bar content).. did this for the first 200 hours..
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post #3700 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ That's up to you! There is no backlight. Most keep the Cell Light up at 18-20 and adjust contrast, gamma and brightness to taste.

Do people get offended when cell light is called backlight? I was corrected on another forum for making this mistake yesterday, just wondering smile.gif

They are two distinctly different things which is why Plasmas can go so black.
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post #3701 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

Here are my conclusions after the testing the "popping" issue extensively with hockey, golf, movies, etc...

I only tested this on my TV, but, nonetheless, the results were clear and definitive.

Does contrast and cell light settings effect the frequency of pops?

No. There is no correlation between pops and cell light or contrast. In other words, it does not matter how bright and contrasty or dim and dull you set the picture, If a pop happens, they will happen regardless of how these are set. So, I would advise owners to adjust their settings to produce the best possible picture and not make extreme adjustments to limit pops. Pops are simply not triggered by brightness or contrast....these settings have no effect on them. Of course, you won't see them, or anything else, as well with very dim settings.

So what triggers the pops?

It's actually a combination of the color white and movement. All variations of white seemed to be able to produce the pops, except for those that have a yellowish or amber tint to them. which didn't produce a single pop that I could see. Very slow moving or static scenes do not produce pops...you will never see pop in a static picture of the sky, for example, but when the camera moves to pan the sky, that's when pops may occur. With fast movement, like when a camera follows an air plane through sky, the pops can occur in rapid succession, especially when the whites in the sky are broken up with other colors.

Is there more than just one kind of pop?

Yes, I found two types. I'm not sure if both would be considered pops, but both occur as a reaction to the combination of triggering shades of white and movement.

The first type is the one most discussed, a two step adjustment in brightness. You only see this type in the white sections of the screen...the dark sections are not affected. Most everyone know what these look like, so I'll leave it at that.

The second type is more of a flash that occurs much less frequently than the two step type, but effects the entire screen. It happens when the triggering whites appear on various sections of the screen at the same time. For example, on a sunny day on a golf course, the whites will come through the moving leaves of a tree and flicker on the fairway or green, if enough of the whites comes through, the screen will flash. Another example...hockey, which shows the two step pop a lot, when enough players block out enough of the ice, it seems like the set wants to produce the two step pops in just the open ice areas, but can't, so it just flashes the whole screen instead. In other words, if white areas, where the normal two step pops would normally occur, are dispersed enough throughout the screen...in smaller sections...the set just flashes the whole screen instead of producing the two step pops.

There you go...I'm popped out : )

My discussions the other day with Tier 2 technical support has brought out that they claim 100% that this is intended behavior brought about by something called "Intelligent Viewing" (other Tier 2 tech said it was not a feature of the TV) and that the TV is trying to give us the best picture possible by doing this automatically. And it cannot be defeated. When I ask them how on earth this is desirable they just don't' know. So after two weeks of discussions with Tier 2, explaining all the data from this thread, they seem to insist that this is how it's supposed to be and it's somehow a "feature". Bollocks.

They said "well we would get calls in the past saying "the scene is dark and I want it brighter, so we made the TV do it automatically to give you the best picture possible automatically!!!"

It's utter and complete nonsense. Even if it's true, it's absurd. The fact that changing motion smoothing changes the behavior proves this to be some buggy implementation of something and not a working feature. Also this feature is not mentioned anywhere that I can find on any literature, manual, etc.

i explained all this. They won't do anything. I have to speak to a supervisor if I want a tech to come out and look at the TV.

This is 3rd conversation with Tier 2 mind you. Samsung's support is hopeless.

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post #3702 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:16 AM
 
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It should be YCbCr as far as I know, but I am not sure. It's a Mac Mini with an nVidia GeForce 320M. I am using the HDMI output (which is supposed to be putting out YCbCr automatically if a TV is detected). It's connected directly to the TV, HDMI port 1.
No, haven't tried renaming the input yet. What exactly is that supposed to change?

I am wondering why my HDMI level option is greyed out. I know people reported about this earlier in the thread but I can't find it anymore.


Not sure exactly what it changes to tell you the truth, but I know its a trick some used to use to lwoer the input lag when gaming. It does lock out some of the picture adjustments though, nothing harmed with testing it out wink.gif

As far the HDMI, its locked unless an RGB signal is sent (If I am remembering what has been said before)

Correct. HDMI Level won't apply unless you use RGB. It will be greyed out.
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post #3703 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Check the F8500 Settings thread wink.gif

Not sure if anyone is using standard however, I think most people are starting with Movie and going from there.....

Didn't know we had one, cheers

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post #3704 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

Do people get offended when cell light is called backlight? I was corrected on another forum for making this mistake yesterday, just wondering smile.gif

Cell Light was something "added" to PDP so that it appeared to be the same thing as LED Backlight. Unless something has changed for 2013, it's bogus and should always be left at the maximum setting. More tomorrow or Saturday after I get a meter on an F8500.
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post #3705 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:24 AM
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My discussions the other day with Tier 2 technical support has brought out that they claim 100% that this is intended behavior brought about by something called "Intelligent Viewing" (other Tier 2 tech said it was not a feature of the TV) and that the TV is trying to give us the best picture possible by doing this automatically. And it cannot be defeated. When I ask them how on earth this is desirable they just don't' know. So after two weeks of discussions with Tier 2, explaining all the data from this thread, they seem to insist that this is how it's supposed to be and it's somehow a "feature". Bollocks.

They said "well we would get calls in the past saying "the scene is dark and I want it brighter, so we made the TV do it automatically to give you the best picture possible automatically!!!"

It's utter and complete nonsense. Even if it's true, it's absurd. The fact that changing motion smoothing changes the behavior proves this to be some buggy implementation of something and not a working feature. Also this feature is not mentioned anywhere that I can find on any literature, manual, etc.

i explained all this. They won't do anything. I have to speak to a supervisor if I want a tech to come out and look at the TV.

This is 3rd conversation with Tier 2 mind you. Samsung's support is hopeless.

I can only find littel things on the internet about Intelligent viewing, but nothing solid. Even if this is a result of what you are seeing, its not being implemented correctly. I would call back and not give up the "fight". We also have Robert from VE who has said samsung is working on a firmware fix for these issues, hopefully they come through and get it done.

I would continue to call however, you may get someone who understands what is going on, its not always easy and remember most are going via scripts even when escalated.......It may be working as "described" but the implementation of what they are trying to do is off........

OK so I would call back and ask them how do you turn it off:
http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/HDTV-Spotlight-What-Makes-the-Samsung-F8500-Plasma-TV-So-Special.shtml
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For further picture quality improvements, the F8500 series gets Samsung's new "Intelligent Viewing" mode, which optimizes the picture processing for the content. In other words, if you're viewing a low quality streaming source like a YouTube video, the set will adjust its noise reduction and scaling algorithm to squeeze more detail out of the image and minimize artifacts. However, if you switch over to a high quality source like a Blu-ray Disc, the set automatically minimizes the processing to let that high quality 1080p image shine through. As with the Black Optimizer function, "Intelligent Viewing" can be turned off if desired.

There is nothing about it in the manual, but isnce its a feature you should be able to turn it off.....
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post #3706 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:28 AM
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Cell Light was something "added" to PDP so that it appeared to be the same thing as LED Backlight. Unless something has changed for 2013, it's bogus and should always be left at the maximum setting. More tomorrow or Saturday after I get a meter on an F8500.

When sitting close (maybe 6 feet) to my 64" and watching in 3D, reducing the cell light creates a much smoother picture with less apparent "grain" from visible pixels. Makes a huge difference. From my "normal" viewing distance of around 12 feet it's not an issue.

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post #3707 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:32 AM
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I can only find littel things on the internet about Intelligent viewing, but nothing solid. Even if this is a result of what you are seeing, its not being implemented correctly. I would call back and not give up the "fight". We also have Robert from VE who has said samsung is working on a firmware fix for these issues, hopefully they come through and get it done.

I would continue to call however, you may get someone who understands what is going on, its not always easy and remember most are going via scripts even when escalated.......It may be working as "described" but the implementation of what they are trying to do is off........

Thanks Ph8te. Totally agree! I won't consider giving up until my return window is up (another 5 weeks or so). I'm with you, I think they are providing what they think is an easy answer to shut me down, but it's obviously not the issue and /or implemented wrong. I keep telling them that I'm trying to help them and I'm relatively patient, and to please not give me bogus answers. It's a little exasperating that anyone would think this is somehow desirable. eek.gif

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post #3708 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:41 AM
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Thanks Ph8te. Totally agree! I won't consider giving up until my return window is up (another 5 weeks or so). I'm with you, I think they are providing what they think is an easy answer to shut me down, but it's obviously not the issue and /or implemented wrong. I keep telling them that I'm trying to help them and I'm relatively patient, and to please not give me bogus answers. It's a little exasperating that anyone would think this is somehow desirable. eek.gif

Ive edited my post with some information I found smile.gif you might want to call back and ask them how to turn it off, since its a feature (which they are correct), but there is nothing in teh manual saying anything about this feature for the F8500 Plasma or LED for that matter or how to turn it off....
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post #3709 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Cell Light was something "added" to PDP so that it appeared to be the same thing as LED Backlight. Unless something has changed for 2013, it's bogus and should always be left at the maximum setting. More tomorrow or Saturday after I get a meter on an F8500.

Cell at maximum, really? thanks for that

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post #3710 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:54 AM
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Cell at maximum, really? thanks for that

According to a Samsung Engineer yep, leave Cell light at 20, its the way its "supposed" to be.....If I rememebr correctly it was said that the feature was only added to help transition those people who were used to ahveing a backlight feature with their LCDs. Otherwise they would not ahve the feature and the backlight would be "fixed"....
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post #3711 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 10:59 AM
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According to a Samsung Engineer yep, leave Cell light at 20, its the way its "supposed" to be.....If I rememebr correctly it was said that the feature was only added to help transition those people who were used to ahveing a backlight feature with their LCDs. Otherwise they would not ahve the feature and the backlight would be "fixed"....

Thanks, makes sense

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post #3712 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 11:10 AM
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According to a Samsung Engineer yep, leave Cell light at 20, its the way its "supposed" to be.....If I rememebr correctly it was said that the feature was only added to help transition those people who were used to ahveing a backlight feature with their LCDs. Otherwise they would not ahve the feature and the backlight would be "fixed"....

I just want to quickly interject here. Ph8te, while I don't question what the rep told you about the cell light, I think it's important to mention that many people on this forum, including those who've had their set's calibrated professionally, don't have it set to 20. My calibrator only used 20 for the day mode, and only because I specifically asked him to calibrate it around a cell light setting of 20 based on what I had read here. He told me he probably would have set it at around 15 or so. Again, this may be the "intended" Samsung setting, it doesn't mean you can't have an accurate image at different settings. To be fair, most people who saw my posted CAL-NIGHT setting with Cell Light at 10 said the image looked too muted for them even though it looks great to me...go figure. Opinions are like buttholes I guess...wink.gif
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post #3713 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 11:15 AM
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I just want to quickly interject here. Ph8te, while I don't question what the rep told you about the cell light, I think it's important to mention that many people on this forum, including those who've had their set's calibrated professionally, don't have it set to 20. My calibrator only used 20 for the day mode, and only because I specifically asked him to calibrate it around a cell light setting of 20 based on what I had read here. He told me he probably would have set it at around 15 or so. Again, this may be the "intended" Samsung setting, it doesn't mean you can't have an accurate image at different settings. To be fair, most people who saw my posted CAL-NIGHT setting with Cell Light at 10 said the image looked too muted for them even though it looks great to me...go figure. Opinions are like buttholes I guess...wink.gif

It wasnt me they told wink.gif this was in a discussion in another part of the forum.......Im not saying you cant adjsut it, so I apologize if it came across that way. Members HAVE seen differences when changing it, as with any setting change it to what you like, its your set so you desere to be happy with whatever setting taht may be smile.gif

Buzz may ahve been part of that discussion before and since he is a calibrator Id trust his input more than others wink.gif

You are correct about opinions, to me it doesnt matter what one has thier settigns on, was just passing along information......The only wrong setting is the one your not happy with....
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post #3714 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 11:19 AM
 
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When sitting close (maybe 6 feet) to my 64" and watching in 3D, reducing the cell light creates a much smoother picture with less apparent "grain" from visible pixels. Makes a huge difference. From my "normal" viewing distance of around 12 feet it's not an issue.

I've been saying this all along:
This PDP is SO bright, that Cell Light at max may not be the correct way to go...

Cell at max and drastically lowered contrast, brightness and gamma produces a muted picture compared to Cell at 16-18 and less lowered contrast, brightness and gamma.

IMO ! biggrin.gif
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post #3715 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 11:25 AM
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According to a Samsung Engineer yep, leave Cell light at 20, its the way its "supposed" to be.....If I rememebr correctly it was said that the feature was only added to help transition those people who were used to ahveing a backlight feature with their LCDs. Otherwise they would not ahve the feature and the backlight would be "fixed"....

Look at it this way.
You are going to adjust Contrast, Brightness, Gama, more times than you could count for the life of the set.
Setting the cell at 20 max and keeping it at 20 forever is one less adjustment you have to think about
Cell at 20 means the ABL circuit peak energy is at the maximum the TV will allow, any lower cell settings lowers this peak.

zoid:
"Lowering cell light below 20 is how the energy saving function works, it lowers the ABL peak energy output allowed.
So you should always keep it at 20 just like you disable the energy saver functions.
Peak white should be adjusted using contrast alone, this has no negative effect on contrast ratio, i.e. cell 20 does not affect MLL."
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post #3716 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 11:27 AM
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I think if a person uses warm2, the cell@20 is fine, but if one uses warm1 (cell@20 is too bright) cell@14 is good.

light controlled rooms...
cell@20, warm2
cell@14, warm1

Theres a massive difference in overall brightness of tv, based on warm1or2. Thats why I think most people use cell@18-20 because there using warm2...

another example...
cell@20, daytime
cell@14, nighttime

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post #3717 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 11:46 AM
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I just purchased an Elite PRO-60X5FD and am having second thoughts after reading about and seeing the F8500. I would gain 4 inches in size and it would be new instead of a demo for the same price. My only concern with the F8500 is that it will be hooked up to an HTPC that I use as a computer now and then. Will this cause burn in or IR? The room also lets a lot of light in during the day.

I only have 5 days left to return the Elite and it's driving me crazy. I've waited 10 years to replace my old DLP and want to make the right decision.
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post #3718 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

I think if a person uses warm2, the cell@20 is fine, but if one uses warm1 (cell@20 is too bright) cell@14 is good.

light controlled rooms...
cell@20, warm2
cell@14, warm1

Theres a massive difference in overall brightness of tv, based on warm1or2. Thats why I think most people use cell@18-20 because there using warm2...

another example...
cell@20, daytime
cell@14, nighttime
With the E series I can assure you no matter what the cell is set to
'Warm 2' looks horrible unless you like yellow looking snow.eek.gif
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post #3719 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

With the E series I can assure you no matter what the cell is set to
'Warm 2' looks horrible unless you like yellow looking snow.eek.gif

You are wrong.....the snow i see is no where near "yellow looking." on warm 2, and if wm2 is near d65 it never will be yellow looking. other factors perhaps make for a muted white.

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post #3720 of 12521 Old 04-25-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

With the E series I can assure you no matter what the cell is set to
'Warm 2' looks horrible unless you like yellow looking snow.eek.gif

This was a bugbear of mine, movie and warm 2 on the ES8000 and F8000 LEDs was just horribly yellow, I couldn't watch it although calibrations stated the picture was correct. I much preferred the blue push of standard and standard The F8500 in movie is totally different, nice and white, I might even make movie mode my mode of choice now wink.gif

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