Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 133 - AVS Forum
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post #3961 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Depends on the environment in which you're watching.

OK, better back away from this thread now.

What are you saying

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post #3962 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Oh of course it depends on the environemnet except when it comes to the king Kuro then no matter what is the condition or the environment, it wins hands down, even when you compare it to other TVs using pictures from the net or place it directly under the sun light. smile.gif

+1

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post #3963 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Don't be bitter! :P
eek.gif You are amazing

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post #3964 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Depends on the environment in which you're watching.

OK, better back away from this thread now.

Grrrrr. Just kidding Vinnie. smile.gif
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post #3965 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 07:34 PM
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Have LED/LCD's reached that point yet, where splitting hairs among blackness measurements is moot?

Guess I shouldn't be asking that here.
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post #3966 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

From my viewing I'm definitely leaning toward the 8500 because of what I perceived to be the better overall PQ, but I'm waiting for the ZT60 to see what it offers. I think the shootout will provide a more thorough evaluation of the ZT than I saw at the Panasonic show.. wink.gif

I'm also still curious about the ZT60. The review from AVS UK was very impressive. I recently realized that I do have a 60 day, instead of a 30 day return option, so I will be able to see the results of the shootout (if it's still May 10th/11th). I'll also have the chance to see how the Samsung firmware upgrade works out as well. I already know the F8500 is a fantastic panel, but there is a chance I could end up getting the ZT60. It's really nice to have the option...just in case cool.gif
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post #3967 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

Have LED/LCD's reached that point yet, where splitting hairs among blackness measurements is moot?

Guess I shouldn't be asking that here.

only because they all suck at it...

but no, I think trying to find the brightest LED is a waste of time though. imo they all produce a picture much brighter than I would want, so I don't really care if I have to set the backlight to 20% or 40%, I know i'm never going to need it at 100%.

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post #3968 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Leon! View Post

Have LED/LCD's reached that point yet, where splitting hairs among blackness measurements is moot?

No. In terms of native contrast, without any type of dimming feature, there would still be a huge gap between various LCD TVs. TVs (or monitors) that use an IPS panel are going to have a far worse MLL than TVs with some type of VA panel. At last year's shootout, an expensive Panasonic IPS LED LCD was measured to have an on/off contrast ratio of 838:1 and an ANSI contrast ratio of 783:1. Having owned an older IPS Panasonic with similar contrast, I can tell you a display like that is absolutely painful to watch. TVs with VA panels can have an on/off contrast ratio over 2,500:1. That is a huge difference (which is why my computer monitors are VA). And actually, I think some of the best, older CCFL LCDs measured better than today's LED LCDs. Anyway, there is still a lot of variation in LCD MLL.
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post #3969 of 12448 Old 04-28-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AuralSex View Post

VT60 Vs. F8500

First off I'd like to offer a huge shout-out to the fine guys over at the BB Magnolia next to Roosevelt Field on Long Island. They had these two sets side by side on stands making a direct A/B comparison possible. They were able to synch up The Avengers on DVD so that both sets were playing this with only a 1" -2" second difference between what the two sets were displaying. Actually, that 1" -2" second difference was quite helpful in allowing an assessment of what was playing on one before looking at the other.

First off, the F8500 had somewhat more pure whites than the VT60. That said, neither had anything like the eye searing whites and "pop" of the LED/LCD sets on the adjacent wall so if that is what you're after you're going to need to pass on both of these sets and opt, instead, for an LED/LCD. So the F8500 had more initial visual impact. My wife commented on this initially. After watching for a minute or two the strengths of the VT60 began to emerge. In fact, the longer you watched, the more apparent it was that the VT60 won convincingly in a number of categories. These included coror saturation and "depth" (hard to describe this but the closest I can come is that the VT had more of a 3D effect even while displaying 2D material). It also simply blew away the F8500 in resolution of detail in dark scenes. Skin tones where more accurate on the VT and blacks definitely appeared 'blacker.' Neither set was using "torch mode" (i.e. (Vivid/Dynamic), so any artificial exaggerations that might have been introduced by these were not a factor. Needless to say, neither were professionally calibrated so we were looking at out-of-the-box settings. I was rather surprised to find that red resolution was about a draw with both sets doing a superb jod here. In view of the much ballyhooed new phosphor that Panny is using I had rather expected that this would be one area in which the VT would bury the F8500. This was not the case. Surprisingly it was in the blues that the VT excelled and completely dominated the F8500. Who whoudda figured?

Anyway, I'm happy to report that my seemingly endless obsession deciding between these two sets has now come to a close and I'm going with the VT. A couple of other factors entered into my ultimate decision. These were that I adore the stand that the VT uses and detest the overly wide stand of the F8500; the VT provides two remotes for their set -- one of which is the cute little touch pad thing, the other of which is a more traditional remote that will allow far easier access to the unit's many feature far more easily...the F8500 only offers the (admittedly very sleek and sexy) touch pad remote; the sound system of the VT is almost certain to beat the built-in speakers of the F8500...having owned the F8500 for about a week I can say that the built-in speakers of that unit were, at best, mediocre; finally I am a bit concerned over quality control issues with Samsung and I believe that over the long haul, the VT will prove to be more reliable -- I know that even the finest product can occassionally produce a lemon but I want to keep the odds on my side.

So if you are a casual shopper (thankfully, not many of us here fall into that category) be careful and spend some quality time with both sets before you decide which way to go. First impressions can be deceiving!

Did you compare the 3D? I saw both side by side at Magnolia (brought Blu-ray discs, slides on flash drive, 3d glasses etc) and found the VT60's 3D to somehow be...kinda meh.. Not sure what it is but it had a lack of depth and pop that the F8500 clearly displayed. Very hard to put into words but I found it kind of lackluster.

I have to say, I'm surprised you saw such a difference in quality when it comes to skin tones, resolution etc. Obviously I respect your subjective opinion, but for the sake of data points, I'll say that seeing them side by side I didn't experience anything that made me feel the VT had a better quality 2D picture, especially nothing plainly obvious that would blow the other away. Differences were extremely subtle to mine and my companions eyes.

The real marked differences I noted was that the F8500 was brighter, looked better in 3D and didn't;t have the really unfortunate IMO shiny trim.

Differences in favor of the VT: it didn't have any brightness pops in 3D that the F8500 displays when viewing without cinema smooth and it seemed to do well with motion and offered another level of granularity not available on the F8500. Nice TV for sure. For me, I'm concerned about its 3D performance. If those things were equal I'd be more torn. Wish the ZT was out so that wasn't still a lingering unknown....

Anyway, I'm just reporting that the sames scenario for me yielded different subjective results. Just goes to show you...Not sure what, but it goes to show something. smile.gif

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post #3970 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

I just have to say one thing about the blacks on the F8500...

They are jet black...as black as you can imagine.

It would serve no purpose to make them.blacker or to choose another set because it's .00001 blacker

It's not all about blacks anymore,.technology has moved beyond that now.

Blacks are simply not an issue with this tv....at all.

Do you have bias lighting (led lights behind the plasma). If not, they would make blacks even lower & other enhancements.

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post #3971 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 03:39 AM
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I am looking for a new TV since my HP DLP finally died after many years of faithful service. . . .

If HP used the same bad Chinese capacitors that Samsung used in 7 million of their DLP, Plasma, and LCD TVs, then it may take less than $6 in capacitors to bring it back to life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

If you have an access panel on the back like the Samsung DLPs then it is easy to check the most likely to fail capacitors without taking the back off the set. http://www.avsforum.com/t/827799/2007-samsung-led-owners-thread-hlt-xx87-89s/14300_100#post_23194998

Owners of Samsung DLP TVs with bad capacitors, even if they don't have problems now, can get an out of warranty exchange with a fee that depends on the age and model of their covered TV. Not sure about exchange for covered Samsung Plasma and LCD owners but they should file a claim too. See http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/3800_100#post_23251820

Mitsubishi has a similar settlement. See http://www.avsforum.com/t/1310024/problems-with-a-older-tv-new-isnt-always-better-try-repairing-it-first/0_100#post_21820806
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post #3972 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 08:51 AM
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Anybody using the TV remote only?
It is very difficult to navigate with a cable box hooked up because you always have to go to the virtual remote to get to any functions needed. It is definitely not user friendly and frustrating for the wife.
I guess If all you had hooked up was an antenna or just used apps than maybe it would be much easier. To turn off everything I have to first go to virtual remote then find receiver power off, then shut off cable box, then shut off TV. Would be nice If you could power everything off with one button. Actually I think there is a setting but it would only shut off cable box and TV at same time but it does not turn everything on at same time you have to manually go to each power and turn on one by one.
Oh well just trying to make it work but I guess ill have to stick with the logitech remote. Maybe TV's shouldnt even make their own remote If it doesnt do many tasks like Logitech remotes do.
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post #3973 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Anybody using the TV remote only?
It is very difficult to navigate with a cable box hooked up because you always have to go to the virtual remote to get to any functions needed. It is definitely not user friendly and frustrating for the wife.
I guess If all you had hooked up was an antenna or just used apps than maybe it would be much easier. To turn off everything I have to first go to virtual remote then find receiver power off, then shut off cable box, then shut off TV. Would be nice If you could power everything off with one button. Actually I think there is a setting but it would only shut off cable box and TV at same time but it does not turn everything on at same time you have to manually go to each power and turn on one by one.
Oh well just trying to make it work but I guess ill have to stick with the logitech remote. Maybe TV's shouldnt even make their own remote If it doesnt do many tasks like Logitech remotes do.

having messed around with the remote in store for a while i can imagine everything you're going through. the remote is not gonna to be good for anything other than the tv, and even that it felt more like a 'companion' remote to be used for the smart features only.

on one hand it's a shame, on the other hand, i don't think i even put batteries in my last tv's remote. i'm all harmony one now and don't plan on going back. if a better universal remote comes along that'll be the only way i switch. i do not want to go back to having multiple remotes for multiple devices ever again

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post #3974 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Anybody using the TV remote only?
It is very difficult to navigate with a cable box hooked up because you always have to go to the virtual remote to get to any functions needed. It is definitely not user friendly and frustrating for the wife.
I guess If all you had hooked up was an antenna or just used apps than maybe it would be much easier. To turn off everything I have to first go to virtual remote then find receiver power off, then shut off cable box, then shut off TV. Would be nice If you could power everything off with one button. Actually I think there is a setting but it would only shut off cable box and TV at same time but it does not turn everything on at same time you have to manually go to each power and turn on one by one.
Oh well just trying to make it work but I guess ill have to stick with the logitech remote. Maybe TV's shouldnt even make their own remote If it doesnt do many tasks like Logitech remotes do.


Not everyone has as much equipment as the people at AVS do wink.gif .....There are so many different interfaces its near impossible to ensure your remote works the way the end user wants wink.gif ......I dont see a big need for macros (whch are what would be needed to create custom shutdown\power on commands) for just the TV. Thats what we have Harmony and the like for biggrin.gif

It may be worth it to purchase a remote for the E\D series to see if tht functions more to your liking.....There will always be tradeoffs though no matter what solution you choose..
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post #3975 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Anybody using the TV remote only?

Best remote that I have used is the lighted urc-8820-CISCO (must have -CISCO there is urc-8820 that is not the same) also identified as URC-8820BC1. Got them with COX DVR and still use them with Verizon FiOS. Only use my F8500 remote for TV's menus. Search eBay for urc-8820-cisco they are about $6 - $12.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

The button layout is very nice. The upper circle of buttons control the DVR / DVD / VCR picture navigation and the lower circle of buttons control all menu navigation.

See http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/3900_100#post_23258818 for F8500 TV code and Smart Hub info.
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post #3976 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Not everyone has as much equipment as the people at AVS do wink.gif .....There are so many different interfaces its near impossible to ensure your remote works the way the end user wants wink.gif ......I dont see a big need for macros (whch are what would be needed to create custom shutdown\power on commands) for just the TV. Thats what we have Harmony and the like for biggrin.gif

It may be worth it to purchase a remote for the E\D series to see if tht functions more to your liking.....There will always be tradeoffs though no matter what solution you choose..

I hear you, but then why do they make a complicated remote with touchpad and all the smart crap If you cant use it to work with what most people have which is a receiver and a cable box. I guess everyone wants the perfect setup and it just needs to be done by third party equipment. smile.gif
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post #3977 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 09:28 AM
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Best remote that I have used is the lighted urc-8820-CISCO (must have -CISCO there is urc-8820 that is not the same) also identified as URC-8820BC1. Got them with COX DVR and still use them with Verizon FiOS. Only use my F8500 remote for TV's menus. Search eBay for urc-8820-cisco they are about $6 - $12.

Can you acess smart hub with it?
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post #3978 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 09:34 AM
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surfmlb, I'll check. Never tried to use smart hub with it.
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post #3979 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:10 AM
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Harmony One works great with F8500. I keep the Samsung touch remote handy when I'm deep into apps as, for me, it's super quick to swipe around. Also able to control F8500 from my wife's galaxy S4 over wifi.

But overall the Harmony One works as great as it always has.

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post #3980 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:21 AM
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So, is the input lag on this set still a p.o.s.?
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post #3981 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:22 AM
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So, is the input lag on this set still a p.o.s.?

I dont think we have many gamers here, if you want to game, from the reviews I have seen so far it would be best to look at a different set....Ive only really seen 1 review mention the input lag so far as not many NA reviewers that I can remember measure this....
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post #3982 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:25 AM
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Yeah, I noticed it was only 1 review. But still I can't see it being all that different for the NA set if the ST60 is anything to go by, both EU and NA sets were pretty much the same. What a shame, all that quad core going to apps and not pumping out that PQ faster. Man, why is everything to so revolved around apps? Can't I just have a TV, or just have a phone? LOL.

Anyone with this set willing to test it against a CRT or a low lag LCD using https://github.com/shurcooL/RefreshRateMultitool/blob/master/RefreshRateMultitool.exe ??
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post #3983 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:27 AM
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I dont think we have many gamers here, if you want to game, from the reviews I have seen so far it would be best to look at a different set....Ive only really seen 1 review mention the input lag so far as not many NA reviewers that I can remember measure this....

FWIW, when I had the F8500 I played battlefield 3 and didn't have any issues at all. Noticed no lag. However, I was coming for an LCD.
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post #3984 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:30 AM
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Yeah, I noticed it was only 1 review. But still I can't see it being all that different for the NA set if the ST60 is anything to go by, both EU and NA sets were pretty much the same. What a shame, all that quad core going to apps and not pumping out that PQ faster. Man, why is everything to so revolved around apps? Can't I just have a TV, or just have a phone? LOL.

Anyone with this set willing to test it against a CRT or a low lag LCD using https://github.com/shurcooL/RefreshRateMultitool/blob/master/RefreshRateMultitool.exe ??

We'll the apps sell the TV more than "lag time". Unless you are a computer monitor that is......wink.gif
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post #3985 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:32 AM
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FWIW, when I had the F8500 I played battlefield 3 and didn't have any issues at all. Noticed no lag. However, I was coming for an LCD.

Thakns for the report, however with those who play reflex related games, the lag time is very important which is why there is such a big thing about the ST60. For many people they may never notice the lag time...
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post #3986 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:36 AM
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We'll the apps sell the TV more than "lag time". Unless you are a computer monitor that is......wink.gif

frown.gif I didn't even think about them having a market for apps. So I suppose people are buying $1 apps for whatever? Or I dunno. I mean really, just face palming here, it's like the DLC of TV's now. As the generations go on, I get more irritated by this stuff.
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post #3987 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Can you acess smart hub with it?

Programmed my urc-8820-CISCO with SAMSUNG TV code 2051. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/3900_100#post_23258542

When TV device pushed on the remote, none of the buttons brough up the Smart Hub display. However, when Smart Hub button on the F8500 remote pushed then all the urc-8820-CISCO's menu navigation buttons worked with Smart Hub display.
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post #3988 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

frown.gif I didn't even think about them having a market for apps. So I suppose people are buying $1 apps for whatever? Or I dunno. I mean really, just face palming here, it's like the DLC of TV's now. As the generations go on, I get more irritated by this stuff.

No no, I mean they can sell more TVs with the Smart Apps than they would by saying we have a low lag time.......Smart apps are the "thing" now, while not heavily looked at here most of the time, for the gen pop, they are....
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post #3989 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 11:15 AM
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Just wait for the day your TV app store starts looking like the Apple iPhone store or any number of Android stores.

I don't see the draw of them. Don't most people have a set box these days, or are those out of style all of a sudden?
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post #3990 of 12448 Old 04-29-2013, 12:14 PM
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If you are an App fan and can only get SD Netflix from Smart Hub because your ISP (Verizon etc.) will not cooperate with Netflix then see http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,28180256?hilite=unblock+us .

Tried it and it worked on my F8500 but since Smart Hub apps do not go thru my Darbee (HDMI 3 input), I could not stand watching Netflix Super HD and 3D streams. It was like viewing them thru a silk screen. Fortunately, unblock us worked for my Blu-ray player so the HDMI output could be Darbee enhanced and Netflix Super HD and 3D streams were great to watch.
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