Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 182 - AVS Forum
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post #5431 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 07:44 PM
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Shoot out update from an industry leading Blu-ray author & compressionist:

Don't by enhancer boxes for your bluray they are garbage (*cough* Darbee *cough*)


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post #5432 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 07:46 PM
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F8500 wins the cloverleaf test
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post #5433 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Elvamir View Post

Shootout update:

3D on Panasonic vt/zt is not true 1080p.


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Exactly. Glad this was finally recognized. It's important to some people in order to make a proper buying decision.

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post #5434 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 07:50 PM
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F8500 wins the cloverleaf test

Panasonic left over from last year - disregard as is meaningless in visual video.

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post #5435 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvamir View Post

Shoot out update from an industry leading Blu-ray author & compressionist:

Don't by enhancer boxes for your bluray they are garbage (*cough* Darbee *cough*)


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I've heard from another well known source that the Darbee can help a display with poor contrast, or people with poor vision. Those were the only positives that he could come up with. frown.gif

Maybe some placebo effect too, but expensive power cords or $100 6' high speed HDMI cables can to that too. wink.gif
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post #5436 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvamir View Post

Shoot out update from an industry leading Blu-ray author & compressionist:

Don't by enhancer boxes for your bluray they are garbage (*cough* Darbee *cough*)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I've heard from another well known source that the Darbee can help a display with poor contrast, or people with poor vision. Those were the only positives that he could come up with. frown.gif

Maybe some placebo effect too, but expensive power cords or $100 6' high speed HDMI cables can to that too. wink.gif
His point as he explained it (or as I understood it) was that pure Blu-ray encoding is phenomenal and any additional encoding ruins that.


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post #5437 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Elvamir View Post

His point as he explained it (or as I understood it) was that pure Blu-ray encoding is phenomenal and any additional encoding ruins that.


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BD is "good enough " Actually, great. Things like Darbee are unnecessary. I think Darbee adds a little but it is only my opinion and I also say it is much more visible in stills than motion which is probably the gist.

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post #5438 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:30 PM
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For what it's worth from someone with nothing at stake, so far there haven't been any Panasonic enthusiasts posting in the relevant monitor threads about the shoot out today. confused.gif

I haven't looked to see if they are doing it somewhere else.
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post #5439 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:32 PM
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Sometimes it seems like the Panasonics have very slightly more color saturation than the F8500 - based on the streaming video for what that is worth. However, the Samsung is putting out more light so maybe that makes the colors appear a bit different.

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post #5440 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:38 PM
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Htwaits, there's little difference between all the panels. Brightness is the big difference, however the Panasonic's don't suffer from having lower capability in that area, but with the Samsung, gradation suffers, gray scale inaccuracies result.

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post #5441 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Sometimes it seems like the Panasonics have very slightly more color saturation than the F8500 - based on the streaming video for what that is worth. However, the Samsung is putting out more light so maybe that makes the colors appear a bit different.
Given the large variation in what's happening to streamed signals, that may not be the best place to do comparisons.
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post #5442 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Htwaits, there's little difference between all the panels. Brightness is the big difference, however the Panasonic's don't suffer from having lower capability in that area, but with the Samsung, gradation suffers, gray scale inaccuracies result.
I don't know enough to comment, but I wonder what you're replying too.

I haven't been reading AVS for a few hours, and all the shootout activity seems to be here ,and none in the Panasonic threads for the involved displays. I expected a lot of VT/VZ interest in the shoot out. Maybe there is a shootout thread. I've just been looking in my subscribed threads. smile.gif

Time to go get dinner. biggrin.gif
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post #5443 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Sometimes it seems like the Panasonics have very slightly more color saturation than the F8500 - based on the streaming video for what that is worth. However, the Samsung is putting out more light so maybe that makes the colors appear a bit different.

Well, the blues on the motion test sure look blue on the panny's and the kuro, but more like aqua on the F8500. It seems the F8500 adds a bit of whiteness to colors...I'm not sure it's just brightness. If I had to pick a weakness to the set, it may be color saturation.
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post #5444 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Sometimes it seems like the Panasonics have very slightly more color saturation than the F8500 - based on the streaming video for what that is worth. However, the Samsung is putting out more light so maybe that makes the colors appear a bit different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Htwaits, there's little difference between all the panels. Brightness is the big difference, however the Panasonic's don't suffer from having lower capability in that area, but with the Samsung, gradation suffers, gray scale inaccuracies result.

All displays were calibrated to the same standard. Any differences would be displays unable to reach Rec.709.

Each color point is a combination of saturation, hue, and luminance. Grayscale underlays color - different level. If each display, calibrated, reaches the reference points, there would be no difference visually. What we see on our monitors is not conclusive and we need to see the reports which will be forthcoming.

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post #5445 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:51 PM
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BD is "good enough " Actually, great. Things like Darbee are unnecessary. I think Darbee adds a little but it is only my opinion and I also say it is much more visible in stills than motion which is probably the gist.

exactly....this is the only time I noticed a "sharpening" of the image. once motion comes back into play I see no discernible difference.

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post #5446 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:54 PM
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Well, the blues on the motion test sure look blue on the panny's and the kuro, but more like aqua on the F8500. It seems the F8500 adds a bit of whiteness to colors...I'm not sure it's just brightness. If I had to pick a weakness to the set, it may be color saturation.

Yes, exactly what I saw.

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post #5447 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:58 PM
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All displays were calibrated to the same standard. Any differences would be displays unable to reach Rec.709.

Each color point is a combination of saturation, hue, and luminance. Grayscale underlays color - different level. If each display, calibrated, reaches the reference points, there would be no difference visually. What we see on our monitors is not conclusive and we need to see the reports which will be forthcoming.

But I've seen two different calibration reviews that said the Panasonics seems to have a little more saturation. I've also heard the way the math works, you can have two slightly different looking, yet accurate colors somehow.

I agree we cannot base it on our monitors, but when the ZT and VT look identical in color, yet the Samsung a bit different, it raises the question especially given what others have said about the cooler colors of the Samsung.

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post #5448 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 08:59 PM
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I don't know enough to comment, but I wonder what you're replying too.

I haven't been reading AVS for a few hours, and all the shoot out activity seems to be here ,and none in the Panasonic threads for the involved displays. I expected a lot of VT/VZ interest in the shoot out. Maybe there is a shootout thread. I've just been looking in my subscribed threads. smile.gif

Time to go get dinner. biggrin.gif

I think the wind got knocked out early when they said that teh VT and ZT measured the same black level, but the VT was brighter and the ST brighter than both.....Just an observation watching the stream...
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post #5449 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:00 PM
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exactly....this is the only time I noticed a "sharpening" of the image. once motion comes back into play I see no discernible difference.

Once the picture is in motion it is up to the display to do the processing so perhaps the display can't keep up. Darbee doesn't hurt, but perhaps in reality doesn't help either.

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post #5450 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:01 PM
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I think the wind got knocked out early when they said that teh VT and ZT measured the same black level, but the VT was brighter and the ST brighter than both.....Just an observation watching the stream...

I believe you are going to see a TON of people cancel orders on the ZT and go with the VT which is over $1000 cheaper in terms of street price. The ST60 might also get an additional bump given the MLL is nearly the same as the VT and ZT, yet it's brighter.

I also believe no matter the outcome of this event, the F8500 will get a benefit.

The ZT will take the biggest hit IMO.
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post #5451 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:07 PM
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But I've seen two different calibration reviews that said the Panasonics seems to have a little more saturation. I've also heard the way the math works, you can have two slightly different looking, yet accurate colors somehow.

I agree we cannot base it on our monitors, but when the ZT and VT look identical in color, yet the Samsung a bit different, it raises the question especially given what others have said about the cooler colors of the Samsung.

More saturation on the part of the Panasonics would indicate that the Samsung is incapable of reaching the same saturation points - remains to be seen. "Cooler" only references grayscale relative to D65.

As to the math comment -- never heard of such a thing. - Edit: It's all in reference to white

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post #5452 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:10 PM
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From what I think I understood. Dnice calibrated the zt and vt right? Who calibrated f8500? And was the f8500 recalibrated after the firmware update?

Would having one person using one set of calibration equipment on all the tv's be more beneficial?
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post #5453 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I believe you are going to see a TON of people cancel orders on the ZT and go with the VT which is over $1000 cheaper in terms of street price. The ST60 might also get an additional bump given the MLL is nearly the same as the VT and ZT, yet it's brighter.

I also believe no matter the outcome of this event, the F8500 will get a benefit.

The ZT will take the biggest hit IMO.

There were only about 4-500 attendees. Panasonic will find other ways to go broke.

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post #5454 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I believe you are going to see a TON of people cancel orders on the ZT and go with the VT which is over $1000 cheaper in terms of street price. The ST60 might also get an additional bump given the MLL is nearly the same as the VT and ZT, yet it's brighter.

I also believe no matter the outcome of this event, the F8500 will get a benefit.

The ZT will take the biggest hit IMO.

From waht we saw and heard today, I would agree, but there is another day so who knows. I guess the F8500 held its own today with the Kuro\ZT\F8500 side by side (and the VT60 at the end) which is a good thing....Hopefully tomorrow we find out some more differences if there are any between the sets and the performance...The one thing they leave for tomorrow, ANSI contrast is what a lot of people are looking for as well as the calibrated numbers of course...
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post #5455 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I believe you are going to see a TON of people cancel orders on the ZT and go with the VT which is over $1000 cheaper in terms of street price. The ST60 might also get an additional bump given the MLL is nearly the same as the VT and ZT, yet it's brighter.

I also believe no matter the outcome of this event, the F8500 will get a benefit.

The ZT will take the biggest hit IMO.

Yep. I have a ZT on order and will be cancelling it before the weekend is over. It is now down to the VT or the F8500. I look forward to hearing the first hand reviews by some of the attending to get their impressions. What a great year to be in the market for a new PDP biggrin.gif
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post #5456 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Sometimes it seems like the Panasonics have very slightly more color saturation than the F8500 - based on the streaming video for what that is worth. However, the Samsung is putting out more light so maybe that makes the colors appear a bit different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Htwaits, there's little difference between all the panels. Brightness is the big difference, however the Panasonic's don't suffer from having lower capability in that area, but with the Samsung, gradation suffers, gray scale inaccuracies result.

All displays were calibrated to the same standard. Any differences would be displays unable to reach Rec.709.

Each color point is a combination of saturation, hue, and luminance. Grayscale underlays color - different level. If each display, calibrated, reaches the reference points, there would be no difference visually. What we see on our monitors is not conclusive and we need to see the reports which will be forthcoming.

I know that, they even say that in the intro.

In the past there were noticeable differences, even when viewed live or through youtube. This is my third shootout. In addition, there were more comments in the past regarding flaws. The flaws mentioned this year were few and minor, with the exception, IMO, of Samsung's gray scale inaccuracies due to brightness. If I were hot for 3D then Panasonic's flaw would be an issue.

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post #5457 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I believe you are going to see a TON of people cancel orders on the ZT and go with the VT which is over $1000 cheaper in terms of street price. The ST60 might also get an additional bump given the MLL is nearly the same as the VT and ZT, yet it's brighter.

I also believe no matter the outcome of this event, the F8500 will get a benefit.

The ZT will take the biggest hit IMO.

Interesting and great observation.. I'd say your spot on..
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post #5458 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


All displays were calibrated to the same standard. Any differences would be displays unable to reach Rec.709.

Each color point is a combination of saturation, hue, and luminance. Grayscale underlays color - different level. If each display, calibrated, reaches the reference points, there would be no difference visually. What we see on our monitors is not conclusive and we need to see the reports which will be forthcoming.

But I've seen two different calibration reviews that said the Panasonics seems to have a little more saturation. I've also heard the way the math works, you can have two slightly different looking, yet accurate colors somehow.

I agree we cannot base it on our monitors, but when the ZT and VT look identical in color, yet the Samsung a bit different, it raises the question especially given what others have said about the cooler colors of the Samsung.

It's the luminance of the color and that is what attracts people to Samsung.

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post #5459 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason626 View Post

From what I think I understood. Dnice calibrated the zt and vt right? Who calibrated f8500? And was the f8500 recalibrated after the firmware update?

Would having one person using one set of calibration equipment on all the tv's be more beneficial?

First of all, DeWayne, Kevin, and David all used meters within .002 of one another which for any practical purposes means they were all getting the same readings. Also, I would would put the the odds at zero that they did not have the latest FW.
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post #5460 of 12773 Old 05-10-2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I believe you are going to see a TON of people cancel orders on the ZT and go with the VT which is over $1000 cheaper in terms of street price. The ST60 might also get an additional bump given the MLL is nearly the same as the VT and ZT, yet it's brighter.

I also believe no matter the outcome of this event, the F8500 will get a benefit.

The ZT will take the biggest hit IMO.

Yes, the ZT beyond reference claim doesn't seem to be panning out.

Given the ST60 has the same MLL as the Samsung and it can be calibrated to 51ftl per Chad it still would have been interesting to have put it in the shootout against the big 3.
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