Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 211 - AVS Forum
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post #6301 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 01:47 PM
 
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^ I was one of the first in Canada to get one (the first ten).
Absolutely love it.
I don't care what anyone else has to say about it, it won't change my view smile.gif

- Enjoy whatever set you choose, and be done with it!!
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post #6302 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 01:51 PM
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post #6303 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ I was one of the first in Canada to get one (the first ten).
Absolutely love it.
I don't care what anyone else has to say about it, it won't change my view smile.gif

- Enjoy whatever set you choose, and be done with it!!

Pie, you said that the firmware update threw off your cal numbers slightly. Could you give me some detail on how exactly? I'm curious if there is enough information to be a basis for me to mess around with my pre-updated calibrated settings.
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post #6304 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GunmetalR56 View Post

OK. I've been asking around a bit regarding this topic but it is because I'm getting close to delivery time for my F8000 and I'd prefer to go F8500.. I am coming from an ST60 that had severe IR. Given that you played some Farcry and Madden which both have HUDs...did you notice any IR on your F8500?

None at all. Of course, I've never had a problem with that on any plasma. I even watched a couple hours of Breaking Bad and AMC HD has this annoying logo that stays in one spot. Didn't see any IR. I think that issue is way overstated on plasmas. I've only seen it if I left something on pause for a few hours and even then it goes away if you put on a fullscreen movie and just let it run.
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post #6305 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Pie, you said that the firmware update threw off your cal numbers slightly. Could you give me some detail on how exactly? I'm curious if there is enough information to be a basis for me to mess around with my pre-updated calibrated settings.

Sure, I had to do a re-cal with the new firmware:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467675/f8500-recommended-settings-thread/120#post_23298460
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post #6306 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

To each his own in the end

I couldn't figure out why you were being so unnecessarily rude (without provocation) until I saw your signature. So you own the VT50. Suddenly, it all makes sense.
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post #6307 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

None at all. Of course, I've never had a problem with that on any plasma. I even watched a couple hours of Breaking Bad and AMC HD has this annoying logo that stays in one spot. Didn't see any IR. I think that issue is way overstated on plasmas. I've only seen it if I left something on pause for a few hours and even then it goes away if you put on a fullscreen movie and just let it run.

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm really not getting the warm fuzzy feel from the F8000 order that I should be... must still be hung up on the plasma PQ.

I just dread seeing the IR monster raise its head again..

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post #6308 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

+1 He is a new guy though so that makes people suspicious. Im sure you can understand that.

On movie review sites a poster like that would be recognized and called out as a (studio) plant pretty fast. Three very typical characteristics:

  1. Completely new member
  2. Very insistent that he's just a regular guy, not a "video nerd"
  3. Brings other people (girlfriend, delivery people) into the story to make it more relatable

Could he be real? Sure. But it's such a formulaic plant post that I seriously doubt it.

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post #6309 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

...I read on this forum that the latest update caused problems with detail so I haven't downloaded that yet. I LOVE the detail on the F8500 so am waiting to upload firmware until someone says that has been resolved and the detail is back.

This was certainly true for me retaining old calibration settings. Once re calibrated to the new firmware, the detail returned if not a little better than before.
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post #6310 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

I should take some photos and post them. I've been very impressed with the F8500's performance. Enough so that I signed up for an account here and went from lurking to posting. I'm tired of reading all the rave reviews about the VT60. I think people are getting too worked up about graphs, and some people are going to end up doing what I did and buy the wrong TV and try to justify it because of the stuff they read here. Go by your eyeballs. The F8500 is clearly the better performer in that regard.

That's subjective. You can't pass opinion as fact.

Some prefer apples, others oranges.

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post #6311 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Stick around. I think you'll enjoy it here be blown away on a daily basis.

Enjoy. wink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gif

lmao! i know i am..........

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post #6312 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

On movie review sites a poster like that would be recognized and called out as a (studio) plant pretty fast. Three very typical characteristics:

  1. Completely new member
  2. Very insistent that he's just a regular guy, not a "video nerd"
  3. Brings other people (girlfriend, delivery people) into the story to make it more relatable

Could he be real? Sure. But it's such a formulaic plant post that I seriously doubt it.

I really doubt Samsung is planting people in this forum to talk up the F8500. More likely, I think the guy just really likes his TV. He obviously digs video games and TV shows and steaks. I must admit, I prefer the look of the F8500 by a pretty wide margin as well and I went into this whole purchase half expecting to buy a Panasonic VT or ZT.

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post #6313 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

I really doubt Samsung is planting people in this forum to talk up the F8500. More likely, I think the guy just really likes his TV. He obviously digs video games and TV shows and steaks. I must admit, I prefer the look of the F8500 by a pretty wide margin as well and I went into this whole purchase half expecting to buy a Panasonic VT or ZT.

i have to agree with you. if this was vt thread would then be suspect
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post #6314 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

On movie review sites a poster like that would be recognized and called out as a (studio) plant pretty fast. Three very typical characteristics:

  1. Completely new member
  2. Very insistent that he's just a regular guy, not a "video nerd"
  3. Brings other people (girlfriend, delivery people) into the story to make it more relatable

Could he be real? Sure. But it's such a formulaic plant post that I seriously doubt it.

I really doubt Samsung is planting people in this forum to talk up the F8500. More likely, I think the guy just really likes his TV. He obviously digs video games and TV shows and steaks. I must admit, I prefer the look of the F8500 by a pretty wide margin as well and I went into this whole purchase half expecting to buy a Panasonic VT or ZT.
Maybe a bit of an evangelist who just wants to "sell" everyone. Your last sentence says about the same thing, but in an entirely different way.

Calibration Resources:

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post #6315 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

I really doubt Samsung is planting people in this forum to talk up the F8500. More likely, I think the guy just really likes his TV. He obviously digs video games and TV shows and steaks. I must admit, I prefer the look of the F8500 by a pretty wide margin as well and I went into this whole purchase half expecting to buy a Panasonic VT or ZT.

Why wouldn't they? This must be the spot with the highest concentration of potential early adopters and ambassadors for the 8500 series. I'm in marketing and I'd do it.

Anyway, I have no way of knowing if he's real or not. I'm just saying that the outline of his post can be found in "Plant 101". If you've seen one, you've seen them all.

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post #6316 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:40 PM
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Can we all get back to discussing features and likes, dislikes, and issues about the TV cool.gif
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post #6317 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Maybe a bit of an evangelist who just wants to "sell" everyone. Your last sentence says about the same thing, but in an entirely different way.


While I dont doubt there could be "plants" within the community especially lurkers, His review pretty much fell in line with those who were happy with the TV, not if he handt brought up the ST\VT would it have such a big deal? We have new members all the time, which is something we should welcome and there are better ways of rooting out "fakes" than just calling them fake....


Of course then would the overly joyous posts about Panasonic TVs be industry plants and fake as well? maybe they ahve been here posting here and there to just make it look like they are semi active....Hmmmmmm



yeah we are going down a rabbit hole again....
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post #6318 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:44 PM
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Can we all get back to discussing features and likes, dislikes, and issues about the TV cool.gif

Yes, and sorry. And I'm seriously considering getting one to replace my 64D7000 (which I love but, well, you know... upgrades...) smile.gif

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post #6319 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:46 PM
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What amazes me the questioning that is going on as if the guy has made good comments about a bad TV.
Remember he is talking about THE KING OF 2013 wink.gif
His comments are on spot, mentioning the scenes and comparing it. He has done a good job and those who are doubting how genuine he is should just keep their opinions for themselves.
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post #6320 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:50 PM
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Maybe he should just mention the 8500 only since this is a 8500 series discussion thread wink.gif
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post #6321 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Sure, I had to do a re-cal with the new firmware:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467675/f8500-recommended-settings-thread/120#post_23298460

Thanks for the link. I must admit that much of this stuff is over my head. In lamens terms, could you give me a basic idea of the changes you had to make? Something like," I lost some green saturation, and had to step up the gamma." Just so that i have a basis to start tinkering. I fully understand the changes will be different for everyone.
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post #6322 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:54 PM
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Yes, and sorry. And I'm seriously considering getting one to replace my 64D7000 (which I love but, well, you know... upgrades...) smile.gif

That's exactly the upgrade I made. Trust me Willie, once you have it, you won't look back.
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post #6323 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

What amazes me the questioning that is going on as if the guy has made good comments about a bad TV.
Remember he is talking about THE KING OF 2013 wink.gif
His comments are on spot, mentioning the scenes and comparing it. He has done a good job and those who are doubting how genuine he is should just keep their opinions for themselves.

I don't think anyone is doubting how genuine he is. I mean he obviously is very passionate about what he believes. The only thing I see wrong with it is he is stating his opinion as fact which is subjective and it isn't subjective statements for the most part just absolutes. Which again is off putting.


In the end and I'm not saying this about anyone in particular usually when people purchase something and continue to tout it are usually trying to justify the purchase to themselves and others

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post #6324 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:58 PM
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I have done three comparisons now of the VT60 to the F8500. The F8500 simply shows more detail than the VT60 can show. The Hobbit and Prometheus are both excellent demo discs. Chapter 3 of The Hobbit clearly shows how much more detail the F8500 can bring out compared to the VT60. The amount of detail in Gandalf's face is simply amazing with the F8500 whereas the VT60 dulls these details and they are simply not as visible. The contrast the F8500 is capable of delivering makes the landscape scenes of the Shire just pop full of contrast and detail, whereas the details in the same landscape scenes of the Shire get lost or blurred by the VT60. Chapter 1 of Prometheus shows much more landscape details than the VT60 is capable of showing. For example, look at the water running in the river in chapter 1 and you can see much more contrast and thus detail than the VT60 is capable of producing. The clarity or sharpness of the F8500 panel is superior to that of the VT60. The contrast the F8500 is able to produce also contributes to the clarity or sharpness of the F8500 panel.

I would say the same thing about the Samsung F5900 BD player vs the Sony S5100 and my PC. In fact, I sort of did in the F5900 thread. That player is clearly adding some undefeatable processing, and while certain things pop more, it's not all good. I have no experience with the F8500 TV, but I've not noticed any sharpness or detail lacking on my calibrated ST60, which is the TV I used to test the BD players. To be clear, IMO the F5900 is producing a less accurate picture, and like I said in the post I linked to, it reminds me somewhat of Sony's "Reality Creation" feature, except it can't be turned off AFAIK.
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post #6325 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

While I dont doubt there could be "plants" within the community especially lurkers, His review pretty much fell in line with those who were happy with the TV, not if he handt brought up the ST\VT would it have such a big deal? We have new members all the time, which is something we should welcome and there are better ways of rooting out "fakes" than just calling them fake....


Of course then would the overly joyous posts about Panasonic TVs be industry plants and fake as well? maybe they ahve been here posting here and there to just make it look like they are semi active....Hmmmmmm



yeah we are going down a rabbit hole again....

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Thanks for the link. I must admit that much of this stuff is over my head. In lamens terms, could you give me a basic idea of the changes you had to make? Something like," I lost some green saturation, and had to step up the gamma." Just so that i have a basis to start tinkering. I fully understand the changes will be different for everyone.

It's kinda over my head too tongue.gif

I'm not qualified to say in a technical way, but I don't think you can just tweak a few numbers to make it right again. I think of it in this way:
The canvas has changed, so the painting I had painted on it looks different now.
You pretty much have to start the painting again with a slightly different mix of paint to get back to what you had before.
if that makes any sense....

[edited]
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post #6327 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 03:02 PM
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understood. I guess the best thing for me to do is to start with my current settings and bust out the Spears and Muncil disk.
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post #6328 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 03:07 PM
 
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This is a great method to reduce buzzing on your TV. I wear mine all the time.
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post #6329 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cockatiel View Post

Thanks for the great feedback. A few questions!

1) did you have the latest firmware? (Some feel some detail was lost with it)

2) was any of your viewing (for example Avatar) in 3d?

3) with your htpc, any line bleed?

4) with your htpc, any mouse lag? Did you have to use any of the lag-reducing tricks? (Like PC labelling)

5) did you use different day and night settings?

Thanks again for the very detailed post!

1: Latest firmware hasn't lost any detail for me, detail is one thing the set is great at

2: 3D is good, I already wrote up a pretty significant amount on it

3: Extremely minimal line bleed. I wrote up about this too. It behaves exactly like my Sony CRT for line bleed, they both have it exactly the same way. Only certain material triggers it, and its more like a ghostly line rather than the usual plasma line bleed everyone is used to seeing. But keep in mind, that the line bleed is not normal plasma line bleed, so if you never noticed it on a PC CRT monitor, you won't notice it on a F8500

4: Lots of mouse lag. Lots and lots. I don't know how anyone can't notice it. PC mode is a lot better, but it's still higher than the norm. PC mode is about 5 frames of lag (about 10 ms less than ST60, but they're still clocking in 5 frames) which I've already tested and normal TV mode is about 8 frames of lag. It's extremely noticeable in normal TV operation without renaming the input to PC.

5: I've tried out several settings. Things look really good on the TV, but I haven't yet had a chance to meter it. Once I do, I'm sure it will look a whole lot better. It even looks good in PC mode, and even without the black optimizer, the blacks are still black and it's definitely on par with my ST60, if not better.

Ok, I also had a ST60 for about a month and a UT50 for 2 weeks before that. The ST60 was a very nice TV from a PQ standpoint. Almost as good as a F8500. But what makes the F8500 really stand out compared to it is how CRT like it is, rather than how good of a plasma it is. So let me elaborate: Line bleed. ST60 and all the other plasmas I've seen have it, on all material. The F8500 has line bleed but in the way my CRT does, it isn't plasma like in the slightest. That alone is a reason this TV is so much better. The blacks are just as good as the ST60. The color reproduction on the ST60 is however, just as good as the F8500. They both look incredible from that perspective. The ST60 can also get PLENTY bright, I totally disagree with geezus on that, they're both equally as bright once you get the ABL under control on the ST60, however, the F8500 has less noticeable ABL activity, but the ST60 is STILL VERY GOOD WHEN IT COMES TO THAT. I personally think the guy had Power save turned on which dramatically increases the ABL function and kills whites.

The ST60 is a very good panel. But the F8500 offers everything that I've wanted in a TV, with the exception of low input lag. However, for input lag, I'm hoping it's possible to either get our way into the firmware ourselves or that Sammy takes note and upgrades their flagship model. Plus, Evo kits. Panny isn't very proactive in getting out firmware (and their software has a ton of bugs, where was the QA???) so overall, I'm much happier with the F8500.

I think geezus is really over blowing it a lot, and I mean that, A LOT. I've had both sets longer than he has and I'm also admittedly more into the finer details as I've calibrated my ST60 and he's stated himself he'd rather cook steaks than fiddle with TV settings. Not knocking the review, but the F8500 doesn't spank the ST60 all around. It does many things a lot better, to me, I'd say it's like having a thin profile CRT and the ST60 is still a plasma. To me, that's worth the extra money right there. Plus, no software bugs that I've noticed yet, and the ST60's menu settings were riddled with bugs.

Edit: Oh right, IR again. The IR is about the same on the F8500 vs the ST60. I see IR from simply tuning the settings on the menu, and I noticed that with both sets. I think it's just how plasma is, that's one thing that won't go away. But the IR is temporary and putting new material on the IR clears it up, or in my case, I've run a white slide which has cleared it up in a few mins since I use a white slide to break in the TV when I'm not using it.

FWIW.

Edit: BTW, I have no bias here. I like the F8500 a lot more, but the ST60 is still a good quality panel. It's just not what I wanted, and has too many drawbacks currently that could be fixed, but not sure if they will.
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post #6330 of 12514 Old 05-17-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

+1 He is a new guy though so that makes people suspicious. Im sure you can understand that.

Why would it matter if I'm new? What would you be suspicious of?

I haven't told anyone to buy anything. I made no recommendation at all. I simply said that the F8500 blew away the VT60 and ST60 in my own living environment, which has tons of light (glass walls in living room and lots of skylights). I also said that I greatly prefer its image and it's punchy colors and excellent detail. If you think I'm lying, just go into your local TV store like I suggested and look at TVs for yourself. That is all I have suggested in this thread. I think it's obvious, even in a bright store like Best Buy, if you just trust your own eyes - it is extremely obvious what I'm talking about. In my local Video Only, they have the VT60 and F8500 sitting right next to each other. You can instantly easily see the added detail and more vivid colors on the F8500. The only arguments I've heard from the "experts" is that the colors are less accurate on the F8500. I gave credence to that nonsense and almost ended up with a TV that I didn't like.

It actually reminds me of the time I ignored my electrical engineer father and bought a $10k Krell amplifier because some stereo magazine said it had "unmatched warmth and clarity." I got it home and it didn't sound any different than an old Yamaha receiver with my Focal Grande Utopia speakers. My dad kept telling me that amplifiers can only introduce more or less distortion per watt, and that neither cables nor amplifiers could violate the laws of physics and magically add "warmth" or "clarity" to the signal. As he said, a watt is a watt, until you introduce distortion. So I followed his advice and returned the Krell and bought a Crown Audio amplifier for $500 from Guitar Center that actually sounded better than the Krell to my ears (according to dad, because it was producing greater wattage with less distortion). And ya know what happened when I brought over a few audiophiles and did blind tests? They all picked the Crown. Then argued that the Krell was vastly superior because of its better capacitors, even after I explained they had picked the Crown PA amplifier when blindfolded.

Many videophiles are the same way. They'll ignore their eyes because a piece of paper says one option is 0.001% better than another, and treat anyone who disagrees with them as a moron and mock them. Never mind that their measurements and graphs are generally beyond the human brain's ability to differentiate. It is tiring, and the main reason why I was only a lurker here until recently.

Back to the TVs...

With the Panasonics, I said the ST60 and VT60 had pretty awesome blacks and a great image in a really dark room, where you don't notice the dimness as much. I still don't think the colors are as "snappy", they don't pop as much, they're not as vivid. And it doesn't look as good, even in the dark, and even after being calibrated.

And to be honest, the ABL on the VT60 was extremely noticeable and annoying. For anyone using an HTPC, you're not going to be happy with the ABL, because it totally ruins the bright colors used in the Windows 7 Media Center interface, and makes web browsing almost intolerable. A big white screen on the VT60 looks dull grey-brown. PC games looked awful, because they use a lot of bright imagery, which gets totally crushed by the Panasonic's ABL. This becomes really obvious when you put the F8500 right next to it and compare directly. FarCry looks like garbage on the Panasonic, and I really don't care if you believe that or not because you've obviously never tried. Try it, next to an F8500, and tell me there isn't a drastic difference. Because there is. It was very obvious and bothersome to me and my buddy who was sitting there playing with me. He kept asking why FarCry looked so crappy on my TV compared to the LCD sitting right next to it. I kept trying to explain that away, telling him this was a vastly better panel for X reason. He was just looking at me like I was an idiot, which I was at the time because I was trying to justify what I had just spent on that TV.

I knew when I posted here, there would be a bunch of video nerds turning their noses up and laughing at me, and sure enough, there they are in this thread for everyone to see.

So if you're a regular guy like me, I suggest you just go look at these TVs in person at a local B&M store, and ignore everyone here. Stop listening to these self-proclaimed experts. You'll see how much dimmer the Panasonic is compared to the Samsung F8500 for yourself. And remember, it doesn't matter how you calibrate it, you're never going to get as bright and punchy an image as with the F8500.

So if you want a dim TV that puts out a great image in a really dark room, go for the ST60 I guess. I don't think the VT60 justified any cost premium. I couldn't tell any difference at all between the two.

If you want a TV that you can play games on, use an HTPC, perhaps do some casual browsing every once in a while, use in a daylit room, watch cartoons or colorful movies, and if you want to see detail in your movies and stuff... I don't think you can beat the F8500.

But again, try it for yourself. You don't have to take my word for it, and I'm glad if you don't. Just go try it for yourself and ignore the nerds.
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