Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 235 - AVS Forum
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post #7021 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 11:36 AM
 
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post #7022 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 11:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Is there anyway the firmware did not take? When I updated via USB, it went through the process , TV shut off then came back on. Then about a couple of minutes later to my surprise, the unit when into "optimizing" mode....however, my USB had been pulled from the TV before that point as I didn't realize it was going to do that optimizing....but not sure if it mattered at that point since it would have gotten the firmware the first time and read the new number. However, it went through the process, turned off and then on again. It seemed everything was fine.

Zoyd, thoughts?

The optimize happens after the firmware has initialized. It would have been safe to remove the USB key. Your description was the same for me.
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post #7023 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

The optimize happens after the firmware has initialized. It would have been safe to remove the USB key. Your description was the same for me.

Alright, cool.

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post #7024 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Is there anyway the firmware did not take? When I updated via USB, it went through the process , TV shut off then came back on. Then about a couple of minutes later to my surprise, the unit when into "optimizing" mode....however, my USB had been pulled from the TV before that point as I didn't realize it was going to do that optimizing....but not sure if it mattered at that point since it would have gotten the firmware the first time and read the new number. However, it went through the process, turned off and then on again. It seemed everything was fine.

Zoyd, thoughts?

It took, the logic FW is loaded to internal memory while the USB is connected and then gets flashed after the reboot.

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post #7025 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 11:49 AM
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Is anyone seeing any loss of detail or brightness after the firmware update?

I read that earlier in this thread, but am unsure if it's true or not. I'm waiting to get confirmation from a few folks before trying. Has anyone noticed any issues AFTER updating the firmware?
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post #7026 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Is anyone seeing any loss of detail or brightness after the firmware update?

I read that earlier in this thread, but am unsure if it's true or not. I'm waiting to get confirmation from a few folks before trying. Has anyone noticed any issues AFTER updating the firmware?
"Resistance is futile"....lol...You will inevitably have to update the tv FW at some point in time down the road due to an enhancement or bug correction you really want...and when you do, you will get all of the previous bug fixes/enhancements that Samsung has put into their FW up to that point....No reason to delay or wait. I think a very high majority of the folks who have purchased the 8500 have upgraded to 1103. I have, and am very content that I did. Brightness pops have been fixed with this update. As for less detail/brightness, you're going to get mixed reviews. Some say they've noticed a change to the overall screen, some didn't see any change..
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post #7027 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 12:11 PM
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Black levels on par with a the xT30 series of Panasonics? That would be poor depending on what set you're upgrading from.

Sighhh it helps to know what mode you are in when saying this....As far as Black levels go, I believe with Black Optimizer off it goes to .03? cant remember exactly, but with an uncalibrated set, all you can go by is "eye"......

Stick with your ZT60 and you wont have to worry about it...

As I said, the Panny zealots sit there and wait. It's so predictable and it's the usual suspects. Never mind that the MLL is very close to the VT/ZT. Never mind that the MLL is better than last year's raved about (for black levels) VT60, never mind that the shootout calibrators called the blacks excellent, the black levels are 'poor' and 'lousy'.

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post #7028 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 12:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Is anyone seeing any loss of detail or brightness after the firmware update?

I read that earlier in this thread, but am unsure if it's true or not. I'm waiting to get confirmation from a few folks before trying. Has anyone noticed any issues AFTER updating the firmware?

Only to the levels calibrated before.

Really, AFAIAA, unless you crank everything up to the max, you'll have plenty headroom to achieve the desired levels you had before.
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post #7029 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 12:41 PM
 
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^ My TV went from this:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467675/f8500-recommended-settings-thread/90#post_23282688

to this:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467675/f8500-recommended-settings-thread/120#post_23298460

That's a very unscientific comparison of changes to the baseline values that Samsung implemented.
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post #7030 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 12:46 PM
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Something weird happens on my display when switching from 96hz to 60hz during bluray playback. I have my bluray player set to output 24p, all enhancements turned off. Receiver is set for passthrough, no enhancements.

I'll start with Cinema Smooth off and Motion Judder Cancellation off. If I turn Cinema Smooth on, and then turn it back off, the picture becomes artifacty during scenes of motion and looks almost like Judder Cancellation is engaged. If I turn the display off and back on, the problem is gone. The artifacts are only introduced if I go from Cinema Smooth on to Cinema Smooth off, not the other way around, and I can't get them to stop unless I turn the display off/on.

Is this wacky behavior the same on everyone's sets?

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post #7031 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Something weird happens on my display when switching from 96hz to 60hz during bluray playback. I have my bluray player set to output 24p, all enhancements turned off. Receiver is set for passthrough, no enhancements.

I'll start with Cinema Smooth off and Motion Judder Cancellation off. If I turn Cinema Smooth on, and then turn it back off, the picture becomes artifacty during scenes of motion and looks almost like Judder Cancellation is engaged. If I turn the display off and back on, the problem is gone. The artifacts are only introduced if I go from Cinema Smooth on to Cinema Smooth off, not the other way around, and I can't get them to stop unless I turn the display off/on.

Is this wacky behavior the same on everyone's sets?

noticed this the other day as well. no q's it is a bug, and thankfully defeatable. can't say i saw this issue prior to the 1103fw release. so don't know if a bug came in w/ that fw or not. believe it or not, but i get the best results with 24p in my blu-ray player off, and CS disengaged when watching 24p content.

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post #7032 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:07 PM
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I was using 60hz with Blu-ray. Motion seemed generally fine.

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post #7033 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Something weird happens on my display when switching from 96hz to 60hz during bluray playback. I have my bluray player set to output 24p, all enhancements turned off. Receiver is set for passthrough, no enhancements.

I'll start with Cinema Smooth off and Motion Judder Cancellation off. If I turn Cinema Smooth on, and then turn it back off, the picture becomes artifacty during scenes of motion and looks almost like Judder Cancellation is engaged. If I turn the display off and back on, the problem is gone. The artifacts are only introduced if I go from Cinema Smooth on to Cinema Smooth off, not the other way around, and I can't get them to stop unless I turn the display off/on.

Is this wacky behavior the same on everyone's sets?

you don't have to turn the set off though. go into jc, and cycle through std,smooth, back to off. this kicked it out for me.

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post #7034 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I was using 60hz with Blu-ray. Motion seemed generally fine.
engage CS,and see what happens.

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post #7035 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Only to the levels calibrated before.

Really, AFAIAA, unless you crank everything up to the max, you'll have plenty headroom to achieve the desired levels you had before.

Thanks for the feedback. So is there any benefit to the firmware update? I mean, other than reducing "pops" in 3D, which I never use.
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post #7036 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Thanks for the feedback. So is there any benefit to the firmware update? I mean, other than reducing "pops" in 3D, which I never use.

The current firmware doesn't fix the 3D pops - just the 2D ones. One to address the 3D pops is said to be coming.

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post #7037 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

noticed this the other day as well. no q's it is a bug, and thankfully defeatable. can't say i saw this issue prior to the 1103fw release. so don't know if a bug came in w/ that fw or not. believe it or not, but i get the best results with 24p in my blu-ray player off, and CS disengaged when watching 24p content.

Thanks for confirming. The first movie I watched I had my bluray set to 24p off in which case I think CS is disabled automatically. I wanted to check out the effects of 96hz so I turned my 24p to on and then noticed the bug. I can see the extra judder in 96hz mode compared to 60hz during panning and some motion, but all in all the CS isn't too bad. I still prefer CS off.

Setting the bluray player to 24p off means the bluray player is doing the 60p conversion, and setting the bluray player to 24p on, but having CS off means the display is doing the 60p conversion right?
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I was using 60hz with Blu-ray. Motion seemed generally fine.

Yeah motion is great using 60hz. I think it was you who I read posted a few pages back about the set being super bright with the lights off, and I agree. I'm still trying to find the best settings for lights off. I was watching District 9 last night and could tell I was getting some eye fatigue. It could be the shaky cam, could be I need to find a less bright setting, or could be my eyes just need to adjust to the plasma technology, I don't know. Curiously, I really only notice the eye fatigue when watching bluray... not Uverse. I don't want to say it almost seems like the picture has a flickering look, but I can't find any other words to describe it. My GF didn't know what I was talking about, so maybe it's just me.

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post #7038 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Thanks for confirming. The first movie I watched I had my bluray set to 24p off in which case I think CS is disabled automatically. I wanted to check out the effects of 96hz so I turned my 24p to on and then noticed the bug. I can see the extra judder in 96hz mode compared to 60hz during panning and some motion, but all in all the CS isn't too bad. I still prefer CS off.

Setting the bluray player to 24p off means the bluray player is doing the 60p conversion, and setting the bluray player to 24p on, but having CS off means the display is doing the 60p conversion right?
Yeah motion is great using 60hz. I think it was you who I read posted a few pages back about the set being super bright with the lights off, and I agree. I'm still trying to find the best settings for lights off. I was watching District 9 last night and could tell I was getting some eye fatigue. It could be the shaky cam, could be I need to find a less bright setting, or could be my eyes just need to adjust to the plasma technology, I don't know. Curiously, I really only notice the eye fatigue when watching bluray... not Uverse. I don't want to say it almost seems like the picture has a flickering look, but I can't find any other words to describe it. My GF didn't know what I was talking about, so maybe it's just me.

Yeah, it was a bit odd. I had 90 contrast and cell down to 13 which should be less than 40fl, but some scenes (especially with whites) will get really bright. They can look quite good, but at the same time it feels like too bright in a dark room --- yet the overall light output of the set is probably only in the 30-some fl range. I could try turning contrast down a bit from 90 and perhaps raising the cell light if needed; maybe it takes the right combination.

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Yeah, it was a bit odd. I had 90 contrast and cell down to 13 which should be less than 40fl, but some scenes (especially with whites) will get really bright. They can look quite good, but at the same time it feels like too bright in a dark room --- yet the overall light output of the set is probably only in the 30-some fl range. I could try turning contrast down a bit from 90 and perhaps raising the cell light if needed; maybe it takes the right combination,

Why dont you keep the set and have it professionally calibrated for day and night.. Since this set produces a better picture then reference VT60
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post #7040 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

As I said, the Panny zealots sit there and wait. It's so predictable and it's the usual suspects. Never mind that the MLL is very close to the VT/ZT. Never mind that the MLL is better than last year's raved about (for black levels), never mind that the shootout calibrators called the blacks excellent, the black levels are 'poor' and 'lousy'.

I'm sorry, but this is what's wrong with AVS. More than that, it's what's wrong with some people.

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Report my post already and quit whining (on the flipside, it looks like you interpreted his post just like I had). If you were going to accuse me of being anything, a Kuro zealot would be closer to the truth. Because I am not affected by ABL and perceptions of enhanced sharpness, I guess that's all it takes to get rewarded the Panasonic zealot label.
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post #7041 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 01:55 PM
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Does anyone know how to roll back the TV to a previous update or back to out of the box settings? No issues. Just wondering.

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post #7042 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 02:00 PM
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Yeah, it was a bit odd. I had 90 contrast and cell down to 13 which should be less than 40fl, but some scenes (especially with whites) will get really bright. They can look quite good, but at the same time it feels like too bright in a dark room --- yet the overall light output of the set is probably only in the 30-some fl range. I could try turning contrast down a bit from 90 and perhaps raising the cell light if needed; maybe it takes the right combination.

Try cranking cell up to 17/18.....and contrast down to 60/70
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post #7043 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 02:09 PM
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Try cranking cell up to 17/18.....and contrast down to 60/70

I'm going to experiment with this tonight..and the Dark Optimizer.

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post #7044 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 02:26 PM
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Does anyone know how to roll back the TV to a previous update or back to out of the box settings? No issues. Just wondering.


You cant roll back firmware, but to reset back to "stock" as farr as basic setting go there is a reseft to factory defaults option I believe. Any changes made in service menu are usually not covered...
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post #7045 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 02:47 PM
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Ken, I think we both figured the blacks would be close enough even for dark room viewing while the display would have ABL benefits which it does. The image of this display does take on a detailed, smooth look. Really nice, lively whites are seen to where I don't see those on my ST30. Maybe you can ask Robert if they are coming out with anymore updates to fix the floating blacks. I will also try using bright room for Dark Optimizer and see.

Dave, what's odd is that I don't believe floating blacks was noticed at all during the shootout by either the calibrators or attendees. I know I didn't see it. I can't recall any owner discussing it sine the firmware update either.

So I'm wondering if it's your settings? You're also certain you have the latest updates? I believe mine updated 3 times and then later went through some kind of 'optimization' process. It was after the optimization process I noticed a major improvement in judder.
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post #7046 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Is anyone seeing any loss of detail or brightness after the firmware update?

I read that earlier in this thread, but am unsure if it's true or not. I'm waiting to get confirmation from a few folks before trying. Has anyone noticed any issues AFTER updating the firmware?

I saw none. In fact that was why I didn't allow it to update right away, I wanted a baseline.
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post #7047 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 03:07 PM
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I haven't done much with the 3D yet. I use an HTPC so not sure how to playback 3D. Do you have to have a 3D bluray player? I downloaded a 3D demo online and played it back from the HTPC but it didn't look that great to me. Also, the 3D demos they have in the SmartTV section didn't look so great either. I wonder if it's because I wear glasses and I'm not wearing the 3D glasses close enough to my eyes or something.

So you need a bluray w/ speed above minimum 3d spec, think its 2x or something, so pretty much any internal blu ray these days should work - keep an eye out on reviews some may complain that a particular make/model is noisy as it spins...

Then you need a bluray software player that will play 3D. There are plugins for XBMC but i looked into it and it seems to be something of a bother. The "set it forget it" apps now are PowerDVD and Totalmedia, which you can purchase and will play bluray 3d with a minimum of manual intervention.

Then you need a GPU that will be able to pass it on, most modern cards will so you're probably set - for me I typically dont install the "3d vision" part of the nvidia driver but on my new htpc I will!

I am unsure how necessary this is for movies but it seems like you kinda need to from what I read on Nvidia's site...

As for 3d files, they exist out there and I think modern players like XBMC and VLC and MadVR should all be fine to just basically automatically pass that on when it exists in the file - I see some comments about needing to manually toggle 3D mode sometimes on the TV side when doing this...

Anyway thats what I need to do for my nvidia HTPC...
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post #7048 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 03:10 PM
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Try cranking cell up to 17/18.....and contrast down to 60/70

Note to those doing calibrations on this set with meters:

Be aware that dropping Contrast that far below about 90 will cause the higher end of the 10 point controls to become ineffective and each of the remaining to cover more than one region. This in turn will increase the iterations required to perform a true calibration. It can be done but plan to spend time determining the relationship between labeled 10 point region and actual region or regions affected.

With Contrast at 60 about half of the 10 point controls will be useless.

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post #7049 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

Does anyone know how to roll back the TV to a previous update or back to out of the box settings? No issues. Just wondering.

Keep an on on this forum for possible future methods to roll back the software version.
http://forum.samygo.tv/viewforum.php?f=59&sid=3079e2bdc1fd862c2998801a074cde6b

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post #7050 of 12514 Old 05-23-2013, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Something weird happens on my display when switching from 96hz to 60hz during bluray playback. I have my bluray player set to output 24p, all enhancements turned off. Receiver is set for passthrough, no enhancements.

I'll start with Cinema Smooth off and Motion Judder Cancellation off. If I turn Cinema Smooth on, and then turn it back off, the picture becomes artifacty during scenes of motion and looks almost like Judder Cancellation is engaged. If I turn the display off and back on, the problem is gone. The artifacts are only introduced if I go from Cinema Smooth on to Cinema Smooth off, not the other way around, and I can't get them to stop unless I turn the display off/on.

Is this wacky behavior the same on everyone's sets?

Could it be an HDMI handshake issue? Sometimes the process of turning the system off and on again and having the problem solved, is indicative of a handshake issue.
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