Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 238 - AVS Forum
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post #7111 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:11 PM
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Hi guys,

I've just received my 60F8500 and cannot for the life of me see any instruction for attaching the stand to the TV.
The supplied user manual has no instructions. I got a peel-off sticker labelled 'Quick Start Guide' but no actual Quick Start Guide frown.gif

Does the quick start guide have instructions for attaching the stand to the TV? If so, can some kind soul please point me in the direction of a PDF of it?

Thanks in advance!
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post #7112 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post


Hello Ken. No, I have not witnessed any light spillage outside the bounds of the picture. It's either not happening on my tv or I'm not sensitive to that phenomenon. I've heard the slight buzzing if I place my ear on the back of the tv's bezel, I was able to see the 2D brightness pops, I'm able to see a very faint pinkish, horizontal band running across the bottom of my tv, but this "light spillage" or bleed thing is something new....

Dan, you're not still seeing pops in 2D are you?
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post #7113 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by markus46 View Post

Hi guys,

I've just received my 60F8500 and cannot for the life of me see any instruction for attaching the stand to the TV.
The supplied user manual has no instructions. I got a peel-off sticker labelled 'Quick Start Guide' but no actual Quick Start Guide frown.gif

Does the quick start guide have instructions for attaching the stand to the TV? If so, can some kind soul please point me in the direction of a PDF of it?

Thanks in advance!
try this
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/201304/20130419125659979/[PF8500-ZA]BN68-04835A-04ENG-0409.pdf

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers 2 Bic F12 subs
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post #7114 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by markus46 View Post

Hi guys,

I've just received my 60F8500 and cannot for the life of me see any instruction for attaching the stand to the TV.
The supplied user manual has no instructions. I got a peel-off sticker labelled 'Quick Start Guide' but no actual Quick Start Guide frown.gif

Does the quick start guide have instructions for attaching the stand to the TV? If so, can some kind soul please point me in the direction of a PDF of it?

Thanks in advance!

have you checked samsung.com? they have manuals online... which shows how to assemble. ENJOY smile.gif

oop knew someone would beat me to it wink.gif

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post #7115 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Thanks, bud!

Dave, just got an email from Robert and yes, they are working on further improving FBs. Apparently one of the updates already attacked that issue, but another one may be coming. No ETA.

But after hearing Air, maybe this isn't FBs at all. Not even sure what to call it. Let's see what the prevalence of this is and maybe that would give you some guidance on swapping it if it continues to bother you.

Just a thought.
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post #7116 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

have you checked samsung.com? they have manuals online... which shows how to assemble. ENJOY smile.gif

oop knew someone would beat me to it wink.gif

Every time I get down on this thread with the nonsense that we see, we get posts like yours and bargervais' that show what a thread like this should look like. People helping people. Nice! smile.gif
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post #7117 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Every time I get down on this thread with the nonsense that we see, we get posts like yours and bargervais' that show what a thread like this should look like. People helping people. Nice! smile.gif
cheers

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post #7118 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I'm not throwing in the towel quite yet because there are some really nice aspects of the display I like...but can you check with Robert on that floating black fix because I recall it being mentioned they still were going to do another fix.
Dave why dont you just return the set and pick up a VT60 , i think you will be pleased with bluray playback , blacks and motion handling . The movies at night are so amazing the black bars disapear and the shawdow detail is incredible with out of the box settings . I use THX cinema at night and THX bright room during the day. Color reproduction is only as good as the source . Everything about the VT looks natural and just right . As ken ross stated use your eyes and i did visually look at both 65" or 64" prior to buying and noticed that the F8500 had too much judder. Maybe this was before the updates idk.. I know for a fact both sets were on vivid in the store on really crappy settings and to me the VT60 looked more natural and had better motion handling and handled blacks much better on the HD and bluray feeds .. Maybe too i have only owned 5 pannys since 2007 and nothing else i.e. LEDs or samsungs. When i got home and set it to THX settings with no modification besides 96hz setting for bluray it put a big smile on my face
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post #7119 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Could it be an HDMI handshake issue? Sometimes the process of turning the system off and on again and having the problem solved, is indicative of a handshake issue.

Hey Ken,

I originally had a HDMI handshake issue the first night I had the TV. Everytime I switched sources the picture would say no signal. I was unplugging HDMI and replugging them in like crazy, but it was always at the source end, not the receiver end. Once I did that I haven't had that happen to me with any sources again.

I suppose this still might be a handshake issue, but airgas noticed the same thing. Can you try it on your set? Play a bluray, start out at 60hz, then engage CS, then go back to 60hz and see if it looks like SOE is on and if you see any artifacting.

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post #7120 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I think the information your local Magnolia gave you is misleading. PM Speakerphile here at AVS. I think he can help you get it right.

Thanks for the tip. I'll do that.

AirGas, there's another Magnolia 19 miles from my home. Thanks for suggesting that.
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post #7121 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Every time I get down on this thread with the nonsense that we see, we get posts like yours and bargervais' that show what a thread like this should look like. People helping people. Nice! smile.gif

Ive been using the "Block User" feature much much more recently wink.gif seems to be working (sometimes)
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post #7122 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It's also interesting that the positive virtues of the 8500 in the shootout can now be characterized as 'one television'. So perhaps the black levels of the VT/ZT may not be reproducible in most/all ZT'S/VTs. After all that was just 'one television'. This is getting really weird. It's taken on the look of almost 'desperation' in some posts. Bizarre.

No one has done this. The leap in logic here is extraordinary and ridiculous.

Your support for the F8500 not having poor blacks or black issues is that professionals/calibrators viewed the set, and none of the attendees commented on poor blacks- in fact quite the opposite. I understand that.

This is fine, but yet only one instance of the F8500 with multiple sets of eyes and opinions about said instance. So let's say Dave brings his F8500 in the room with all of those guys and do you think anyone notices the same issue he does? Why wouldn't they?

When Dave turns black optimizer off and it solves the issue these attendees also presumably notice, do they all now miss the fact that his set has barely better than ST30 blacks? Or is Dave the only one seeing this in the room?

Of course not.

I don't own this set, as stated previously I'm coming from a 4-year old Kuro. The F8500 is at the top of the list for me right now. Like I said, I want this to be it. The VT60 seems to be had a tad cheaper right now, but I'm really preferring this guy for multiple reasons. I just don't like the possibility of unboxing and having the experience Dave is having. Arguing with CS and trying to get a brand new TV replaced with another is not something I look forward to doing.

Isn't that the whole point of this thread? After all, it's not an owner's thread.
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post #7123 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Dan, you're not still seeing pops in 2D are you?
No, Ken. They're history after the 1103 fw update....
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Every time I get down on this thread with the nonsense that we see, we get posts like yours and bargervais' that show what a thread like this should look like. People helping people. Nice! smile.gif

as much as i try to stay on the sidelines i do sometimes get drawn in wink.gif but have found so much helpful info here at avs so i also try to give back where i can!
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post #7125 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Hey Ken,

I originally had a HDMI handshake issue the first night I had the TV. Everytime I switched sources the picture would say no signal. I was unplugging HDMI and replugging them in like crazy, but it was always at the source end, not the receiver end. Once I did that I haven't had that happen to me with any sources again.

I suppose this still might be a handshake issue, but airgas noticed the same thing. Can you try it on your set? Play a bluray, start out at 60hz, then engage CS, then go back to 60hz and see if it looks like SOE is on and if you see any artifacting.

I'll check over the weekend.
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Well a suggestion maybe, one of the owners who will be remaing an owner, may want to start an official owners thread. This way it can appease those who want to post what they want to thier hearts content in this thread while seperating the "owner" and possible future owner talk. Its a shame as there is so much good information in this one........I really dont think its needed tbh, as none of the sets this year really have an "owners thread".....
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post #7127 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by markus46 View Post

Hi guys,

I've just received my 60F8500 and cannot for the life of me see any instruction for attaching the stand to the TV.
The supplied user manual has no instructions. I got a peel-off sticker labelled 'Quick Start Guide' but no actual Quick Start Guide frown.gif

Does the quick start guide have instructions for attaching the stand to the TV? If so, can some kind soul please point me in the direction of a PDF of it?

Thanks in advance!
sorry try this link the one i gave you earlier i should have looked at it closer
try this one
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/201304/20130419125659979/[PF8500_QSG]BN68-05038A-05ENG-0415.pdf

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers 2 Bic F12 subs
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post #7128 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:08 PM
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Thanks Bargevais. That's the manual I have.
I must be going blind (my mum told me that would happen smile.gif) but I don't see the instructions for attching the stand to the TV in there anywhere. What page is it on?

edit: Don't worry - I called the retailer and they guided me through the process.
Cheers!
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post #7129 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

No one has done this. The leap in logic here is extraordinary and ridiculous.

Your support for the F8500 not having poor blacks or black issues is that professionals/calibrators viewed the set, and none of the attendees commented on poor blacks- in fact quite the opposite. I understand that.

This is fine, but yet only one instance of the F8500 with multiple sets of eyes and opinions about said instance. So let's say Dave brings his F8500 in the room with all of those guys and do you think anyone notices the same issue he does? Why wouldn't they?

When Dave turns black optimizer off and it solves the issue these attendees also presumably notice, do they all now miss the fact that his set has barely better than ST30 blacks? Or is Dave the only one seeing this in the room?

Of course not.

I don't own this set, as stated previously I'm coming from a 4-year old Kuro. The F8500 is at the top of the list for me right now. Like I said, I want this to be it. The VT60 seems to be had a tad cheaper right now, but I'm really preferring this guy for multiple reasons. I just don't like the possibility of unboxing and having the experience Dave is having. Arguing with CS and trying to get a brand new TV replaced with another is not something I look forward to doing.

Isn't that the whole point of this thread? After all, it's not an owner's thread.

for one dave is talking about high contrast scenes spilling over into the black bar section.( i have witnessed this as well.) totally different than what you continue to bring up. not bragging, but i have the eyes for this anomaly stuff,and fb is such a mute point.

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post #7130 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by markus46 View Post

Thanks Bargevais. That's the manual I have.
I must be going blind (my mum told me that would happen smile.gif) but I don't see the instructions for attching the stand to the TV in there anywhere. What page is it on?

edit: Don't worry - I called the retailer and they guided me through the process.
Cheers!
i just posted the correct one sorry i was late LOL
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/201304/20130419125659979/[PF8500_QSG]BN68-05038A-05ENG-0415.pdf

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post #7131 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Well a suggestion maybe, one of the owners who will be remaing an owner, may want to start an official owners thread. This way it can appease those who want to post what they want to thier hearts content in this thread while seperating the "owner" and possible future owner talk. Its a shame as there is so much good information in this one........I really dont think its needed tbh, as none of the sets this year really have an "owners thread".....

you know i have thought this over before, but i can almost guarantee leaving bread crumbs on the ground will result in the pigeons meandering over to the other side of the bridge as well.wink.gif
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post #7132 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

i just posted the correct one sorry i was late LOL
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/EM/201304/20130419125659979/[PF8500_QSG]BN68-05038A-05ENG-0415.pdf

Thanks mate - I really appreciate the help that these forums provide. [ Aside from the 'my TV's blacker than your TV' debates smile.gif ]
I did do an internet search for the Quick Start Guide and came up empty.

Cheers
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post #7133 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by markus46 View Post

Thanks mate - I really appreciate the help that these forums provide. [ Aside from the 'my TV's blacker than your TV' debates smile.gif ]
I did do an internet search for the Quick Start Guide and came up empty.

Cheers
Your welcome

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post #7134 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

No one has done this. The leap in logic here is extraordinary and ridiculous.

Your support for the F8500 not having poor blacks or black issues is that professionals/calibrators viewed the set, and none of the attendees commented on poor blacks- in fact quite the opposite. I understand that.

This is fine, but yet only one instance of the F8500 with multiple sets of eyes and opinions about said instance. So let's say Dave brings his F8500 in the room with all of those guys and do you think anyone notices the same issue he does? Why wouldn't they?

I'm not sure what your point is here. We know we've had multiple professional reviews of this display aside from the shootout. None have reported the light spillage (or whatever it is), none. Does that mean it doesn't exist in some sets? Of course not. But of all the owners and reports here, we have 2 sightings of it from reliable (IMO) sources. So between owners, reviews and calibrators, we have 2 instances. Is this a prevalent issue? Apparently not or if it is then the overwhelming number of people (and calibrators) aren't sensitive to it.

The bottom line is that almost everyone leaves the optimizer on and that's the only fair way to measure its blacks

Look, you can get a defect in any set from any manufacturer and then you're in the same position of arguing with a CS rep for an exchange. Frankly that rationale for putting the 8500 at a disadvantage (if that's what you're thinking), makes no sense to me. I've seen no stats that say you have a better or worse chance of arguing with a CS rep from one display to another.
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post #7135 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

for one dave is talking about high contrast scenes spilling over into the black bar section.( i have witnessed this as well.) totally different than what you continue to bring up. not bragging, but i have the eyes for this anomaly stuff,and fb is such a mute point.

FB wasn't mentioned once in my post, let alone "continuing to bring up" that you claim.

Spilling into the blacks was mentioned as was the fact that it's inconsistent and the term "fluctuation" was used. Comparison to the ST30 "holding it's blacks better" was described.

There were plenty of people who thought 24p on older Panasonic sets was just fine! There were others that saw flickering. There's no need to downplay a known issue. Either it's there or it's not.

"Moot" is entirely subjective.

I hope this is cleared up with firmware for Dave easily. ABL issues, overall brightness and sharpness/clarity have my leaning heavily in the F8500's direction. Not to mention the bezel/stand. Maybe I'm just skeptical from many times seeing issues with hardware, promised updates and easy fixes and not seeing anything happen for some time.
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post #7136 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Well a suggestion maybe, one of the owners who will be remaing an owner, may want to start an official owners thread. This way it can appease those who want to post what they want to thier hearts content in this thread while seperating the "owner" and possible future owner talk. Its a shame as there is so much good information in this one........I really dont think its needed tbh, as none of the sets this year really have an "owners thread".....

As much as I like the theory, I've seen the same thing we see here in virtually every owner's thread I've seen. I really don't believe these guys will have any more respect there than here. But that's just MO.
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post #7137 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Interesting.
Larry, is there a neat way to slightly flatten out the gamma at 90% on my calibration?
It's the only one with a defined slight peak, and I was wondering how to fix that without going further than -4/+4.

I've seen the same peak at 90% on other cals, so I think it's inherent of this TV.


It's hard to believe that you posted less than 3 hours ago -- and now it's three pages back.

The slight rise in your Gamma point curve is so little that I doubt it makes any visible difference in picture quality. The small peak means that there is a very, very slight reduction in output at 90% stimulus. This could be a characteristic of the model as you suggest.

It may be an indication that clipping is occurring. You can check for clipping using the AVSHD white clipping pattern -- you should see flashing bars at or above line 235. If not, reduce the Contrast control a bit until 235 flashes.

It may be an indication that ABL is kicking in. If so, it is so slight though that you'll not notice it.

If it bothers you and it is not fixed by adjusting the Contrast, fiddling a lot with the ninth and tenth 10- point controls may bring it back in line, Change them in a ganged manner -- moving R, G, and B together in the same direction.

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post #7138 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I'm not sure what your point is here. We know we've had multiple professional reviews of this display aside from the shootout. None have reported the light spillage (or whatever it is), none. Does that mean it doesn't exist in some sets? Of course not. But of all the owners and reports here, we have 2 sightings of it from reliable (IMO) sources. So between owners, reviews and calibrators, we have 2 instances. Is this a prevalent issue? Apparently not or if it is then the overwhelming number of people (and calibrators) aren't sensitive to it.

The bottom line is that almost everyone leaves the optimizer on and that's the only fair way to measure its blacks

Look, you can get a defect in any set from any manufacturer and then you're in the same position of arguing with a CS rep for an exchange. Frankly that rationale for putting the 8500 at a disadvantage (if that's what you're thinking), makes no sense to me. I've seen no stats that say you have a better or worse chance of arguing with a CS rep from one display to another.

We're way too early into the life cycle of this thing to claim any issues are certain anomaly.

For one, you say there are multiple professional reviews, but don't admit exactly how many sets this consists of. What, maybe five? Ten? And yet you think 2 instances of an issue recorded on one tiny slice of the internet means it's not prevalent? Out of how many total sets manufactured? Neither camp (pro reviews & AVS reviews) is even a full percentage of the pool, much less a sufficient sample.

I don't see how you can make that claim at this point.
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post #7139 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:33 PM
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I have now just noticed while using my PS3 through HDMI 2 input that my blacks have disappeared. The image is totally washed out. If I use HDMI 3 input, all is fine. I tried messing with the settings but all the settings are the same for each input. Any idea what might have caused this?
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post #7140 of 12882 Old 05-23-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

FB wasn't mentioned once in my post, let alone "continuing to bring up" that you claim.

Spilling into the blacks was mentioned as was the fact that it's inconsistent and the term "fluctuation" was used. Comparison to the ST30 "holding it's blacks better" was described.

There were plenty of people who thought 24p on older Panasonic sets was just fine! There were others that saw flickering. There's no need to downplay a known issue. Either it's there or it's not.

"Moot" is entirely subjective.

I hope this is cleared up with firmware for Dave easily. ABL issues, overall brightness and sharpness/clarity have my leaning heavily in the F8500's direction. Not to mention the bezel/stand. Maybe I'm just skeptical from many times seeing issues with hardware, promised updates and easy fixes and not seeing anything happen for some time.

'Either it's there or not' makes the potentially huge jump in logic that every 8500 suffers from it. At this point that's unknown and in fact, evidence points to the opposite. If it is true, then we have a phenomena that almost nobody can see, reviewers and calibrators included. Dave and Air would be the only two we know about.

So the better bet may be that a very few sets suffer from it. For one of our two owners it's no biggie and for the other it may be.

As for firmware updates, I know of no TV manufacturer that has delivered more in this area than Samsung with the 8500. To me, that provides significantly better comfort than I'd get with the other issues from other manufacturers.
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