Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 241 - AVS Forum
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post #7201 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Actually, D-Nice did mention the floating blacks during the shootout. He didn't go into much detail, other than stating it only happens in some content. It was one of the reasons he preferred the Panasonic for his dark-room viewing. I think it was during day2 Q&A session.

I think it's also forgotten that floating blacks is mentioned in the very first post of this thread (in Chad's review):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Black levels

The richness of blacks and contrast is arguably the toughest test for any display, and traditionally a good plasma will outperform a conventional LED in that regard. While last year's E series took a timid step forward, there is no doubt the F8500's blacks take a more confident leap ahead. In Movie mode's picture options, a selection called Black optimizer does seem to make the blacks darker when set to Dark room. In that setting, the black level, which appeared excellent before, improved even further; coaxing what appears to be state of the art black level performance out of the F8500. Do the blacks appear illuminated with the lights out in the Dark room setting? Yes; not even the last run of Elite Kuros could claim otherwise. However, the F8500 is so good that nearly any significant picture content made the blacks appear extremely or even totally devoid of light, which is a significant accomplishment. Bright objects appear to come out of a velvety, inky black background. However, the extra darkness comes at the price of stability. Later testing revealed that Dark room caused dynamic fluctuation of the blacks, so it will be a judgment call on whether to take advantage of that circuitry.

Black levels were measured with a C6 meter profiled with a Jeti 1211 reference spectro to the F8500.

Black level measured .0069 fL with Black optimizer off and a 1080P/60 source. With the Black optimizer set to Dark room or Auto, it measured .0025 fL. With 1080P/24 and cinema smooth on, black level was .0072/.0025 fL, which is not significantly different. With Black Optimizer set to either auto or Dark room, Movie mode's modified ANSI contrast ratio was 7436:1, at 34.95/.0047 fL. That was further evidence of some black level floating, as the black level on a dark screen was significantly lower than black level of the checkerboard. Because of this fluctuating black level in the Dark room setting, I made the decision to do the calibration in Movie mode with the Black optimizer off. As calibrated, with Black optimizer off, the modified ANSI contrast ratio measured 6034:1, at 38.62/.0064 fL.

Asked later:
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post


Thank you Chad, for a detailed and even handed review, and for staying up past midnight. That's dedication.

Does fluctuation of black levels with black optimizer on means during dark scenes, you see blacks visibly change?

Secondly, has Samsung fixed the fluctuating brightness in bright scenes (whether black optimizer is on or off)?

Thirdly, how is its 96hz for movies?

I like the E series. Compare to the 2012 Pannys, they have good video processing, cleaner picture, and handle hd cable better. My biggest beefs are they don't get very bright, black levels are very so so, and skin tone look to me obviously too reddish/orange. Looks like they fixed them all (brightness in a big way). While it may not be the "Jesus display" some (incl me) hoped it would be, it'll still be great, especially better for daytime viewing. I guess the question now is will the zt60, which will probably beat it soundly in blacks, have enough brightness to be the over all king.

Answer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Glad to do it!
I could see the fluctuation with dark test patterns. It would also be visible with certain program material.
I did not see any fluctuating brightness in bright scenes; it looked stable, though it is possible certain material could show something up.
I was surprised that I didn't really fall in love with the 96 Hz mode. As I stated in the review, overall I prefer the VT50's motion, but it is personal preference. I will say the 96 Hz mode on the F8500 was razor sharp and would appeal to purists.
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post #7202 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinger View Post


Are we talking about resetting a particular mode(Dynamic, Standard, Movie ect..) or a true total Factory reset?? Honestly I haven't seen that option in Settings and can't remember seeing it in Service Mode when I was in there (when I activated Cal Day/Night)..

PS:Nice to be back on topics and not dealing with trolls cool.gif

No Pinger not picture mode reset but a full factory reset.

The option is available under >Support> Self Diagnosis > Reset

It will reset everything except your network details

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post #7203 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

Buzz,

I've read that You're going to test the F8500, especially ABL behavior. Any news on that? As I'm curious about the results.
Thanks!

That was supposed to be today but we cancelled the appointment as the display might be exchanged. I'm a seasonal resident and will be moving north on Sunday where I have one scheduled. I'll try to get to that one soon.

There is a pattern specifically designed to test for ABL and it is easy to use. Download the free AVSHD disc here. In Miscellaneous Patterns, section A, look for the A5 Dynamic Brightness Pattern. If there is ABL working you cannot miss it as the Average Picture Level (APL) Increases.



Patterns Manual explaination: Primarily this pattern is included to quickly observe any possible
changes that might occur as APL varies. The pattern also includes a
center mark (+) for aligning measurement equipment in the middle of
the screen. When the background changes, that alters APL. The
pattern can show if your TV has a tendency to adjust light output
depending upon the on-screen APL, and it may allow you to observe
some effects of certain settings that affect light output.
With TVs that have an adjusting iris or backlight, you might notice that
the grayscale bars in the lower right corner could change shade
depending upon the APL. On some displays the bars in the lower right
corner might even blend together at different APL levels, which would
indicate a loss of detail. Ideally the grayscale bars in the corner of this
pattern would remain about the same shade regardless of the
background currently displayed, and the bars would be distinct from
each other and never blend together, but that might not be possible
with all displays. The pattern can simply allow you to observe how
your display may react differently depending upon APL and chosen
settings. For example you may find that by turning off an adjusting
iris, or some other type of dynamic setting, the grayscale bars no
longer have the same amount of shift in brightness depending upon
the current APL.

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post #7204 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 06:27 AM
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Guys and Girl,

Can we put this Floating Blacks thing to rest. It was an issue with this set with the original firmware versions. In 1103 update they fixed the floating black issue to a point where it is unnoticeable. If you are in an extremely dark room with no lights or reflections then you can still see some areas of blacks fluctuating during really dark scenes but it is not the floating black issue where the entire screen gets lighter after a scene change and then slowly gets darker due to the black optimizer video processing. If you have any light and I mean any light on in the same room you will never see this problem. If you have a complete bat cave and only watch in complete darkness then you probably shouldn't choose the f8500 anyways.

Again this was a bigger issue with older firmwares. You can read through my old posts and I mention it being an issue for me during Lincoln and Gangstar Squad. I have watched those scenes I was having the issue in over and over and the problem can not be seen.

Dan
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post #7205 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

I am having a big time problem with my set lately. wink.gif
I can't find any new Blu-rays to watch. Anybody have any good suggestions for the latest and greatest movies that have just come out?

Sorry, This isnt a F8500 series discussion. So, let me rephrase. Best and latest blu-ray to show off the inky blacks on the F8500 maybe?

Oh there are many many. Don't know what you have or don't have to make suggestions.
Last night I was watching Silent Hill: Revelation. The movie was nothing special but the TV made it look SUPER GORGEOUS. Specially during the entry to Silent Hill in a snowy and foggy atmosphere. and there were few black, actually inky black scenes. This TV makes even a not so good movie be enjoyable for its visuals. I have to revisit many movies from my personal library to see how they look on this TV.
Some of the movies I tried just for the sake of testing on this TV:
- Snow white and the Huntsman (Looked super gorgeous, super super super gorgeous)
- Watchmen (Inky inky blacks)
- Up in the Air (Amazing vibrant colors)
- Cloud Atlas (Again so many nice colorful scenes)
- Chronicle (love the bluish tint of the film and this TV highlights that)
- A Royal Affair (Truly royal on this TV)
- The Woman in Black (Gorgeous whites and blacks)
- Brave (Super punchy colors)

These I can recall for now smile.gif

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post #7206 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

Guys and Girl,

Can we put this Floating Blacks thing to rest. It was an issue with this set with the original firmware versions. In 1103 update they fixed the floating black issue to a point where it is unnoticeable. If you are in an extremely dark room with no lights or reflections then you can still see some areas of blacks fluctuating during really dark scenes but it is not the floating black issue where the entire screen gets lighter after a scene change and then slowly gets darker due to the black optimizer video processing. If you have any light and I mean any light on in the same room you will never see this problem. If you have a complete bat cave and only watch in complete darkness then you probably shouldn't choose the f8500 anyways.

Again this was a bigger issue with older firmwares. You can read through my old posts and I mention it being an issue for me during Lincoln and Gangstar Squad. I have watched those scenes I was having the issue in over and over and the problem can not be seen.

Dan

Are we certain that it isn't the same issue, but now to a lesser extent than originally seen? If so, should we now refer to the issue that remains as 'fluctuating blacks'?

The F8500 stands head and shoulders above the VT60 for me because of it's abilities during the day, or any time with some light going on. Even so, being in a room with windows isn't going to be much different than one without windows at night with the lights out. That's where I don't want to be sitting distracted by fluctuations.

By the way, have any of the pro reviews been able to re-measure after applying firmware that fixes 'floating blacks' to verify a severe change has been reduced or eliminated? Or give us an idea of what remains?
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post #7207 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

I was talking about the factory reset You can find in the TV's menu, no need to go into service menu. You can find it under Support > Self Diagnosis > Reset. But can only speak for EU models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

No Pinger not picture mode reset but a full factory reset.

The option is available under >Support> Self Diagnosis > Reset

It will reset everything except your network details

Thank You!!
Not having the issue David is looking to rectify but after 3 updates in the past 2 weeks it might be a smart thing to do.. thanks again..

Sidenote to fellow F8500 forum members: about my troll comment earlier, maybe it was a bit too harsh I but I hate having to skim through post after post of bickering by non-F8500 owners/perspective owners.. why they even want to hang here is beyond me other then looking for a chance to disrupt.. its not like we need/want their opinions or help.
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post #7208 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

That was supposed to be today but we cancelled the appointment as the display might be exchanged. I'm a seasonal resident and will be moving north on Sunday where I have one scheduled. I'll try to get to that one soon.

There is a pattern specifically designed to test for ABL and it is easy to use. Download the free AVSHD disc here. In Miscellaneous Patterns, section A, look for the A5 Dynamic Brightness Pattern. If there is ABL working you cannot miss it as the Average Picture Level (APL) Increases.

Thanks Buzz!
as a calibrator, not a pro as You smile.gif, I know this pattern for sure and it was very stable (for plasma), at least the best I've seen on plasma.
I've tested the ABL and MLL with some patterns at max contrast and cell light. You might be interested. As I only had limited time and had to create all patterns by myself (only Radiance as generator) the testing is incomplete, but OK for some conclusions.

11% window: 202,4 cd/m² (325W)
14% window: 199,3 cd/m² (355W)
17% window: 200,9 cd/m² (386W)
20% window: 202,6 cd/m² (420W)
30% window: 212,5 cd/m² (530W)
40% window: 176,2 cd/m² (540W)
full field: 74,5 cd/m² (545W)


black (field): 0,0061 cd/m²
50% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0159 cd/m² / 147 cd/m²
40% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0156 cd/m²
35% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0156 cd/m²
30% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0156 cd/m²
25% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0155 cd/m²
20% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0154 cd/m²
15% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0153 cd/m²
10% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0152 cd/m²
5% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0061 cd/m²
2.5% APL ANSI 4x4: 0,0061 cd/m²


I hope to get some more data that usually isn't shown in a review. If You are going to test the TV You may consider doing this:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415546/patterns-to-measure-mll-as-a-function-of-apl
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post #7209 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 07:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Of course most members are aware that AVS promotes using the red flag instead of direct confrontation. That's why it's in the AVS rules. smile.gif

What AVS does, when a thread can't seem to stay on topic, is close the thread. Those still interested in the topic can start a new one with a fresh start.

Avoiding "taking the bait" does wonders for any thread regardless of how well the topic is defined.
I agree. Enough of all this crap.
It was manageable for a few days, but it's gone on long enough and is tearing the lifeblood out of this thread.

The people with hugely differing opinions about one another I give you three choices: Create a new thread to argue, use PM or block each other and be done with it.

/end
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A few notes/questions:

1) When I looked at the VT60, I went up close and looked at it from an angle and was able to see the double picture as a result of the airgap. That will be one of the primary differences with the ZT. When I did the same thing with the F8500, I could not see the double picture at all. Does the 8500 have a similar bonding process as the ZT or does it just have a much smaller gap?
2) The F8500 definitely buzzes and can be heard on mute from about 10-12ft away. Not horrible but noticeable. Does this level of buzzing vary a lot across different samples? Other people have buzzing or lucky to get a very quiet set? Do the Panasonics buzz as well?
3) 3D. I tested the glasses and it works, but often it will drop the connection and I have to push the top button to resync it. Is this common? Happens especially when taking the glasses off and putting them back on.

Otherwise very happy with the TV. In a full dark room, when the screen fades to black, it's not perfectly dark and I can see letterboxes if I look very carefully in dark scenes, but disappears into the background completely in most scenes.
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post #7211 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

Thanks Buzz!
as a calibrator, not a pro as You smile.gif, I know this pattern for sure and it was very stable (for plasma), at least the best I've seen on plasma.
I've tested the ABL and MLL with some patterns at max contrast and cell light. You might be interested. As I only had limited time and had to create all patterns by myself (only Radiance as generator) the testing is incomplete, but OK for some conclusions.

(snip)


I hope to get some more data that usually isn't shown in a review. If You are going to test the TV You may consider doing this:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415546/patterns-to-measure-mll-as-a-function-of-apl

Looks like Im not the only one whos interested in this wink.gif I brought this up awhile ago, but Buzz wasnt sure if he would ahve time to do that test. Since the EU models are behind as far as firmware goes (compared to the NA\US) it will be interesting to see if there are any differences with a set that has 1103.1....


Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

I agree. Enough of all this crap.
It was manageable for a few days, but it's gone on long enough and is tearing the lifeblood out of this thread.

The people with hugely differing opinions about one another I give you three choices: Create a new thread to argue, use PM or block each other and be done with it.

/end

becasue of this thread, Ive had to sue the block feeature more than a few times, its funny to see how much some people post, when only posting negative aka threadcrap items.....The beautiful thing though is that on the IPAd thier posts completly dissapear unless someone quotes them smile.gif Id like to thank the vigilant owners who have stuck around and continue to post thier experiences though (good and bad) as that right now is the only thing making this thread worth reading....
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post #7212 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW1212 View Post

A few notes/questions:

1) When I looked at the VT60, I went up close and looked at it from an angle and was able to see the double picture as a result of the airgap. That will be one of the primary differences with the ZT. When I did the same thing with the F8500, I could not see the double picture at all. Does the 8500 have a similar bonding process as the ZT or does it just have a much smaller gap?
2) The F8500 definitely buzzes and can be heard on mute from about 10-12ft away. Not horrible but noticeable. Does this level of buzzing vary a lot across different samples? Other people have buzzing or lucky to get a very quiet set? Do the Panasonics buzz as well?
3) 3D. I tested the glasses and it works, but often it will drop the connection and I have to push the top button to resync it. Is this common? Happens especially when taking the glasses off and putting them back on.

Otherwise very happy with the TV. In a full dark room, when the screen fades to black, it's not perfectly dark and I can see letterboxes if I look very carefully in dark scenes, but disappears into the background completely in most scenes.

1) Samsung has also a single layer panel structure to avoid double images. See data sheet: http://pn64f8500.com/uploads/pn64f8500af-spec.pdf
2) all plasma TV buzz, more or less. It varies with panel size / PSU combination and manufacturing tolerance within the same model range. VT/ZT have additional fans which might be annoying too.
3) batteries fully charged? or try to reset the TV
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post #7213 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post


3) batteries fully charged? or try to reset the TV

Batteries should be full. Just out of the box and put in for the first time. What do you mean by reset the TV? I was just wondering if any other owners have ever had the connection drop between the glasses and the TV. Is the connection RF based? Could it be interference with all the other RF based stuff in my home such as remotes, wireless dimmers, etc?
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post #7214 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

Guys and Girl,

Can we put this Floating Blacks thing to rest. It was an issue with this set with the original firmware versions. In 1103 update they fixed the floating black issue to a point where it is unnoticeable. If you are in an extremely dark room with no lights or reflections then you can still see some areas of blacks fluctuating during really dark scenes but it is not the floating black issue where the entire screen gets lighter after a scene change and then slowly gets darker due to the black optimizer video processing. If you have any light and I mean any light on in the same room you will never see this problem. If you have a complete bat cave and only watch in complete darkness then you probably shouldn't choose the f8500 anyways.


Again this was a bigger issue with older firmwares. You can read through my old posts and I mention it being an issue for me during Lincoln and Gangstar Squad. I have watched those scenes I was having the issue in over and over and the problem can not be seen.

Dan


Sounds pretty annoying . So basically what you are saying is if you have a man cave or a bad ass theater room completely blacked out you should stay away from this set and buy the reference VT/ZT or go to a real movie theater?
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post #7215 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:27 AM
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connection is bluetooth. operates between 2.402 and 2.480GHz. Normally when You pair the devices, automatically a free channel is selected which is far enough from other emitter frequencies.
Remotes or dimmers here in Europe operate on 466MHz or 833MHz, might be different in the US. For testing You can try to turn off all RF stuff. If You glasses work, turn on one by one and test again after each device turned back on. So You can easy find the disturber.
If You have a different set glasses try also with this.

By reset the TV I mean to load the factory default. All the TV stuff is software controlled, so if the software has malfunction caused by whatever it can be solved the doing a factory reset.
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post #7216 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post



11% window: 202,4 cd/m² (325W)
14% window: 199,3 cd/m² (355W)
17% window: 200,9 cd/m² (386W)
20% window: 202,6 cd/m² (420W)
30% window: 212,5 cd/m² (530W)
40% window: 176,2 cd/m² (540W)
full field: 74,5 cd/m² (545W)

That is very interesting data - no ABL processing until 40% is reached. A very high percentage of content would be ABL free. Kudos to Samsung for the new PDP pixel technology. There is little reason to believe that Cell Light 20 and Contrast 100 would have too much visible effect in a bright room, although even without testing I can suspect that dark room 3D viewing with those settings might be tell tale in high luminance scenes.

I have seen the referenced thread previously but I'll certainly give it a re-read. Thanks. smile.gif

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post #7217 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:33 AM
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double post

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post #7218 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Sounds pretty annoying . So basically what you are saying is if you have a man cave or a bad ass theater room completely blacked out you should stay away from this set and buy the reference VT/ZT or go to a real movie theater?
That is what it's sounds like he is saying, of course that is his opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. I am sure people still notice this issue on there Samsung's, there is always unit variation. Most can not see it anyway, or it is so slight as noted its no a big deal.
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post #7219 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:47 AM
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Dave, have you noticed this with any 8500 you've seen in the store?

I have no real access to an F8500 in a store.

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post #7220 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:56 AM
 
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I have no real access to an F8500 in a store.
Dave canyou still exchange the set?
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post #7221 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 08:59 AM
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Dave canyou still exchange the set?

Yes.

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post #7222 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

That is very interesting data - no ABL processing until 40% is reached. A very high percentage of content would be ABL free. Kudos to Samsung for the new PDP pixel technology. There is little reason to believe that Cell Light 20 and Contrast 100 would have too much visible effect in a bright room, although even without testing I can suspect that dark room 3D viewing with those settings might be tell tale in high luminance scenes.

I have seen the referenced thread previously but I'll certainly give it a re-read. Thanks. smile.gif

That's also my thought, and yes max. cell light and contrast is far too much (also got clipping with this settings), but it was only a test and incomplete.
And I would expect even better ABL behavior on a lower brightness target like 120 cd/m² (35FL), but had no time to check.
As for cell light, Zoyd's testing on his D-series showed that lower settings than 20 will lead to harder ABL kick-in. So I would only use contrast to target the desired light output and leave cell light at max.
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post #7223 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:07 AM
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DrFaxe make a comment about the faint horizontal band of the 64F8500. You think is a factory fault? Many owners have it...
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post #7224 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:30 AM
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my personal opinion:
it is a factory fault. It seems that the filters are not applied well. I would get an exchange if my TV would show this band
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post #7225 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

my personal opinion:
it is a factory fault. It seems that the filters are not applied well. I would get an exchange if my TV would show this band

Factory fault of my tv or every F8500 made?
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post #7226 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

That's also my thought, and yes max. cell light and contrast is far too much (also got clipping with this settings), but it was only a test and incomplete.
And I would expect even better ABL behavior on a lower brightness target like 120 cd/m² (35FL), but had no time to check.
As for cell light, Zoyd's testing on his D-series showed that lower settings than 20 will lead to harder ABL kick-in. So I would only use contrast to target the desired light output and leave cell light at max.

Max Cell has always been correct but the light output of the F8500 has made Cell reduction a requirement for any sort of normal viewing. This is truly an interesting TV and I can't imagine how fierce the competition might become for the 2014 comparisons.

The present PDP tech is so good that even if next year's models are better I see little reason to believe that an F, VT, or ZT could not hold its own until OLED or whatever the next best thing might be appears on the store shelves. I'm presently in the market for one and as many as three 2013s, two of which would have to be Fs due to the viewing environments.

Anybody in central Wisconsin wanna buy a low time ISF enabled fully calibrated 65VT50???? lololol

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post #7227 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

I think it's also forgotten that floating blacks is mentioned in the very first post of this thread (in Chad's review):
Asked later:
Answer:

i quoted you just because you brought it up recently, but this is for anybody that has an opinion...

with regards to floating blacks, and maybe this isn't exactly the case, but why would it be a concern? i mean, if black optimizer makes blacks lower on dark scenes how is that anything but good? now if it was making blacks levels brighter, i could understand that, even though i'd never personally be able to see it. i mean 'black' looks black to me on pretty much all displays when most of the image is bright.

so, is his the case, if you compare the blacks levels of the f8500 on bright scenes with the optimizer on and off is there any difference? if the only difference between the two is that instead of holding the higher black level and being consistent it goes blacker when possible, that's a great feature imo.

so for numbers, to be clear is it like this:
optimizer off
dark scene - 0.003
bright scene - 0.003

optimizer on
dark scene - 0.0018
bright scene - 0.003

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post #7228 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:43 AM
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I'm so jealous but it's not a matter of deciding to get the 8500 or another brand I had to settle on the F5500 for now because of my budget and I'm very impressed with the 5500 I will be replacing my 60E8000 by year's end I can only imagine the clarity that the 8500 will bring. Because the 5500 is much clearer then my E8000 so I can only imagine I love the feed back this forum brings

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post #7229 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

That is what it's sounds like he is saying, of course that is his opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. I am sure people still notice this issue on there Samsung's, there is always unit variation. Most can not see it anyway, or it is so slight as noted its no a big deal.

so far the f8500 is the best dark room tv i've owned since crt. i have not had the 2013 panny's, but ppl seem to right off the f8500 way too quickly. reminds me of those fedex commercials, just because you're good at one thing, doesn't mean you can't be good at another.

aside from the 2013 panny's, the f8500 is the next best plasma for dark room viewing made since the kuros. that's kind of like saying you shouldn't pick up that olympic athlete for your beer team because he only finished 5th place. it's still more than good enough for the vast majority of ppl. you should not be scared away from the f8500 for dark viewing.

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post #7230 of 12672 Old 05-24-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Factory fault of my tv or every F8500 made?

common error maybe? i can not see any lines on my tv. i'm pretty sure if it's as obvious as others say, it's at least better if not totally fixed on the 'good' units

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