Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 265 - AVS Forum
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post #7921 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 01:01 PM
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Made the update from 1103 to 1104. No "optimizing" message. Camera was updated, but the stupid "camera is not on" message has not gone away. I'll report any chances in pq I observe.
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post #7922 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Made the update from 1103 to 1104. No "optimizing" message. Camera was updated, but the stupid "camera is not on" message has not gone away. I'll report any chances in pq I observe.

Make sure that Motion Control is Off under Smart Features. That should cure the Camera not on message.
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post #7923 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 01:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

....but the stupid "camera is not on" message has not gone away....

You will need to turn off any Samsung function that want to use the camera such as motion control. It should go away then wink.gif
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post #7924 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 02:12 PM
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ok, has a little more viewing time today.

I still don't believe there was any change in black levels, but there may have been a fix/reduction in floating blacks.

last week I started watching the star trek movies, and while watching search for spock I did notice the letterbox bars change. it was fairly subtle, but once I saw it and looked for it, it was very obvious. so far that's been the only example I've noticed. I turned the movie on again today and went to some scenes that flipped back and forth between bright/dim scenes and did not notice any change in the letterbox bars.

definitely not a definitive result, but seems promising.

I can also confirm that there was no 'optimizing' but it did update the camera when I turned the tv off for the first time after updating, and I no longer get any message about the camera being deactivated when it's tucked away with motion control turned off.

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post #7925 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post


I still don't believe there was any change in black levels, but there may have been a fix/reduction in floating blacks.

Floating blacks remained the same pre/post FW update per buzz's measurements in the settings thread.
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post #7926 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 04:15 PM
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@pieandchips

i have a never-yet-used STB (Hi-Def) that I got from Roadrunner (Time Warner). I own no other equipment as yet. I've never even seen a Blu-Ray! The box is a Scientific American Explorer 8300 HD. So I would be watching through that. Unless I dump Time Warner. Are you from Great Britain? What kind of pie? Some kind of meat pie I gather? I do intend to get a Blu Ray and most likely an AVR especially if I go beyond the soundbar idea. Someone said I needed a wireless router as well but I'm not sure why.

@Auditor55 you're probably right, but I am trying to find a good rationalization for over-spending my proper withdrawal rate in retirement wink.gif I think I am thinking about my cash flow the wrong way. Denying myself, unlike most Americans. I rarely buy on credit. I have to fight my own excessive thrift. Before I moved into this place, a flagrantly excessive self-indulgence given the size of my nest egg, I lived in a real dump for 27 years.

@Ken Ross I probably won't move. I'll probably drop dead in this God-forsaken place. Jk. I do have blinds but they don't keep out all the light: they are white or grey.

If I decided not to bite the bullet on a high-priced 8500 what is my best bet on a (dare I say it?!) El-Eee-Dee with vastly inferior but not horrible PQ for under 2K and preferably a LOT under 2K? Is there any such thing?
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post #7927 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Floating blacks remained the same pre/post FW update per buzz's measurements in the settings thread.

to be honest, I still don't think I know what floating blacks are... haha one of those things that I've never noticed, but when everybody complains about it you try to see it I guess.

being that I was watching off the HTPC, it could have easily been processing on the pc too.

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post #7928 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Floating blacks remained the same pre/post FW update per buzz's measurements in the settings thread.

to be honest, I still don't think I know what floating blacks are... haha one of those things that I've never noticed, but when everybody complains about it you try to see it I guess.

being that I was watching off the HTPC, it could have easily been processing on the pc too.

yeah, you might never notice it. It's hard to pick out unless you know what to look for and you have the right material in the right environment.
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post #7929 of 12621 Old 06-02-2013, 10:47 PM
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Have not updated the firmware yet. Blacks look pretty good to me smile.gif The lights reflecting in the screen are not visible when viewing program material, but my iPhone camera picked them up. The F8500 eats light.

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post #7930 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

the majority of the market are sheep. they will buy whatever the manufacturers advertise most favourably. if you took a random sample of non-enthusiasts and asked them what was better, plasma, lcd, or led. they'd pick LED because of the marketing.

not sure I would go as far to call the majority of people uninformed sheep

However...I think a "bright" picture sells TV's and most people are not extremely critical of things like panel uniformity and off angle viewing capability

Bigger difference sin black levels are more obvious...but there are several LED's that do a very good job in this area

A good, but very different, example is I highly prefer German cars over anything else for the driving experience

Many manufacturers claim to be "just as good"...and use the Germans as the standard for engineering...but its never the same.

I think ..IMO...there should be more of them on the road...however they by no means have the lion's share of the auto market in the US


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post #7931 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

Logically how can an edge lit TV have pin point dimming doesn't make sense to me.

agreed

though LG, Sony and samsung all have "technology" they say that can do this

As I said in an earlier post...the majority of the market likes a bright sharp picture with a reasonably good black level

You can achieve that with a good edge lit LED TV

though as we all know,,,accurate color, off angle viewing and panel consistency may not be part of the equation


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post #7932 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 08:17 AM
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there are two components to an LCD TV, the light source (LED, CCFL, etc.) and the LCD panel itself which filters the light by changing the polarization state of the liquid crystals. If they can block the light on a local scale in the LCD part instead of dimming the light source (LED) then they can do it.
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post #7933 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

not sure I would go as far to call the majority of people uninformed sheep

However...I think a "bright" picture sells TV's and most people are not extremely critical of things like panel uniformity and off angle viewing capability

Bigger difference sin black levels are more obvious...but there are several LED's that do a very good job in this area

A good, but very different, example is I highly prefer German cars over anything else for the driving experience

Many manufacturers claim to be "just as good"...and use the Germans as the standard for engineering...but its never the same.

I think ..IMO...there should be more of them on the road...however they by no means have the lion's share of the auto market in the US


Warren

i think you're just helping my point. if a superior product doesn't have a higher share of the market, marketing is almost always to blame.

funny anecdote. my last car purchase i did some heavy research on reliability since i wanted a second car that wouldn't break down as much as 'my baby'. from most review sites it appeared that domestic, european, and japanese cars were pretty close. they all seemed to get rated between 4-4.5 stars from owners. then i read the comments, and to sum them up them went something this:
domestic:
-car runs and drives awesome, when it works. occasionally has random 'no-start' issues that seem to fix themselves with time. mechanic couldn't identify the problem, but it only happens once every month or so. the rest of the time the car runs mint and i'm very happy - 4.25/5
european
-overall i enjoy the car, but it's riddled with electrical gremlins. power locks quit working, power seats only adjust one way, the power antenna got stuck in the down position and now i only receive the stronger radio stations. 4/5
japanese
-i'm so mad at this car right now. everywhere i read it's rated to get 45mpg and no matter how i drive i can never even get 40mph. i've taken it in to the dealer 5 times already, and they can't find the problem! I guess otherwise the car is ok, but do NOT buy this car thinking it'll get good fuel economy. 4.5/5

i thought it was funny anyway...

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post #7934 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

there are two components to an LCD TV, the light source (LED, CCFL, etc.) and the LCD panel itself which filters the light by changing the polarization state of the liquid crystals. If they can block the light on a local scale in the LCD part instead of dimming the light source (LED) then they can do it.

what if they are using a combination of LED's/LED banks to illuminate each area.

the led light up more than one area, and many led's light up each area. perhaps they can use different combinations to come up with more zones than they have led's.

i can't think of a simply way to explain it, but it makes sense in my head. instead of thinking that one led dimming would dim a single zone significantly. we could think of one led dimming would dim several zones only minorly. the zone would only dim noticeably if several leds that affected it dimmed at the same time.

the system that would allow this seems crazy complicated though, and i would not want to be the guy in charge of determining the zones/led layout or dimming algorithms

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post #7935 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Blind Broccoli View Post

If I decided not to bite the bullet on a high-priced 8500 what is my best bet on a (dare I say it?!) El-Eee-Dee with vastly inferior but not horrible PQ for under 2K and preferably a LOT under 2K? Is there any such thing?

May I suggest you have a look at the Samsung F5500?

Avoid the 60" but the 51" and 64" are well worth checking out.
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post #7936 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 11:07 AM
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where did you see the possible issues with OLED's?...I hadnt read anything about that

also I think a big reason for the discontinuation of full array is price...not thinness. I don't think manufacturing a full array with local dimming is cheap...relatively speaking

That and the fact they are far more expensive than TV's with equal or IMO, better , picture quality

The market is probably only those that WILL NOT buy a plasma but will spend the extra $$ for a much better picture than edge lit can provide


Warren

There have been a couple of articles lately regarding a breakthrough in OLED technology, referred to as "iOLED" the I shanding for inverted. If you Google that you will find the technical problems with OLED dealt with in detail. I am excited that they seem to have licked the longevity issue and that the technology to achieve this seems to be very simple to implement with existing manufacturing capacity.
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post #7937 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 02:15 PM
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Read a few hundred threads on avs last few weeks. Settled on the 64 inch f8500. Looks awesome.... my buzzing is terrible, I've read some have no buzz. Since it is open to interpretation of what is good or bad I installed app on android phone, sound meter by smart tools (free). I'm getting 58 db inch away from tv on right side, playing white breakin slide, google webpage should be similar. Pure colors on breakin slides produce no buzz (it's so nice!). white screens the worst. I Plan on calling BB to send service, but I figure I'd see if some people can measure there buzz (not alcohol related biggrin.gif) with same app so we can compare. Not really noticible in movie. Real bad in hockey and surfing web pages w majority white backround.Usually some buzz watching tv. Oh TV is mounted with slim tilting wall bracket. If I tilt TV then put back or move it fades or disapears, but always comes back. so I'm Thinking some mechanical mounting or stress maybe? Thanks......

ps just tested with radio shack sound meter 56db. also tv is pretty cranked, 20, 94, 55.fairly bright room. prob 60 hrs of use/breakin so far..
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post #7938 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffnh View Post

Read a few hundred threads on avs last few weeks. Settled on the 64 inch f8500. Looks awesome.... my buzzing is terrible, I've read some have no buzz. Since it is open to interpretation of what is good or bad I installed app on android phone, sound meter by smart tools (free). I'm getting 58 db inch away from tv on right side, playing white breakin slide, google webpage should be similar. Pure colors on breakin slides produce no buzz (it's so nice!). white screens the worst. I Plan on calling BB to send service, but I figure I'd see if some people can measure there buzz (not alcohol related biggrin.gif) with same app so we can compare. Not really noticible in movie. Real bad in hockey and surfing web pages w majority white backround.Usually some buzz watching tv. Oh TV is mounted with slim tilting wall bracket. If I tilt TV then put back or move it fades or disapears, but always comes back. so I'm Thinking some mechanical mounting or stress maybe? Thanks......

ps just tested with radio shack sound meter 56db. also tv is pretty cranked, 20, 94, 55.fairly bright room. prob 60 hrs of use/breakin so far..

What's crazy is my set buzzes slightly louder on dark scenes than bright scenes, and I've seen a couple other people post this as well.

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post #7939 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffnh View Post

Read a few hundred threads on avs last few weeks. Settled on the 64 inch f8500. Looks awesome.... my buzzing is terrible, I've read some have no buzz. Since it is open to interpretation of what is good or bad I installed app on android phone, sound meter by smart tools (free). I'm getting 58 db inch away from tv on right side, playing white breakin slide, google webpage should be similar. Pure colors on breakin slides produce no buzz (it's so nice!). white screens the worst. I Plan on calling BB to send service, but I figure I'd see if some people can measure there buzz (not alcohol related biggrin.gif) with same app so we can compare. Not really noticible in movie. Real bad in hockey and surfing web pages w majority white backround.Usually some buzz watching tv. Oh TV is mounted with slim tilting wall bracket. If I tilt TV then put back or move it fades or disapears, but always comes back. so I'm Thinking some mechanical mounting or stress maybe? Thanks......

ps just tested with radio shack sound meter 56db. also tv is pretty cranked, 20, 94, 55.fairly bright room. prob 60 hrs of use/breakin so far..

Jeff, I too have a 60" that buzzes. I'll be honest here and say that I am on my 3rd set because of this. First two returned to BB. All of them buzzed loud enough to be annoying and distracting especially watching material that is fairly quiet. I have to turn the sound up beyond reasonable IMO to overcome the buzz level. I'll keep this 3rd set because it has the best picture I've seen but the buzzing is an issue that my wife and I will have to deal with. I've tried several things to deaden the buzz but the only thing that worked sufficiently was actually holding blanket up in front of the panel which has it's obvious drawbacks... eek.gif I did read a post that someone used one of these: http://www.amazon.com/40-Vizomax-Screen-Protector-Plasma/dp/B0030DDC1I and that it absolutely stopped the buzzing from passing through..
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post #7940 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 05:32 PM
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Loudest for me coming out side vents on right side in middle height wise..... sounds like you are talking about buzz from screen.... sounds like different issue. Also popping watching hockey which i thought was resolved. I have latest firmware. I'll have to read more when I have time.... actually watching bruins now... so sounds like i need to call BB. hopefully someone can measure there hum, but I think mine is uncharacterically loud.
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post #7941 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

i think you're just helping my point. if a superior product doesn't have a higher share of the market, marketing is almost always to blame.

funny anecdote. my last car purchase i did some heavy research on reliability since i wanted a second car that wouldn't break down as much as 'my baby'. from most review sites it appeared that domestic, european, and japanese cars were pretty close. they all seemed to get rated between 4-4.5 stars from owners. then i read the comments, and to sum them up them went something this:
domestic:
-car runs and drives awesome, when it works. occasionally has random 'no-start' issues that seem to fix themselves with time. mechanic couldn't identify the problem, but it only happens once every month or so. the rest of the time the car runs mint and i'm very happy - 4.25/5
european
-overall i enjoy the car, but it's riddled with electrical gremlins. power locks quit working, power seats only adjust one way, the power antenna got stuck in the down position and now i only receive the stronger radio stations. 4/5
japanese
-i'm so mad at this car right now. everywhere i read it's rated to get 45mpg and no matter how i drive i can never even get 40mph. i've taken it in to the dealer 5 times already, and they can't find the problem! I guess otherwise the car is ok, but do NOT buy this car thinking it'll get good fuel economy. 4.5/5

i thought it was funny anyway...

agreed...unless marketing dictated that they come to market with a product that the public really didn't want or see value in

After all...its all about sales and profit. History is full of great products that weren't successful

Case in point...the Pioneer Kuro
On the car thing...anyone who values the driving experience as their most important criteria( along with $$ ofcourse)... .IMO...is looking at the Germans as they offer driving performance like no other. After all it is a car...smile.gif

BUT...clearly...that is not a priority for many people

Same difference in Tv's


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post #7942 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

there are two components to an LCD TV, the light source (LED, CCFL, etc.) and the LCD panel itself which filters the light by changing the polarization state of the liquid crystals. If they can block the light on a local scale in the LCD part instead of dimming the light source (LED) then they can do it.

a CNET explanation of dimming technology....a brief one

http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-6482_7-399.html



Warren

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Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
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post #7943 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

i think you're just helping my point. if a superior product doesn't have a higher share of the market, marketing is almost always to blame.

funny anecdote. my last car purchase i did some heavy research on reliability since i wanted a second car that wouldn't break down as much as 'my baby'. from most review sites it appeared that domestic, european, and japanese cars were pretty close. they all seemed to get rated between 4-4.5 stars from owners. then i read the comments, and to sum them up them went something this:
domestic:
-car runs and drives awesome, when it works. occasionally has random 'no-start' issues that seem to fix themselves with time. mechanic couldn't identify the problem, but it only happens once every month or so. the rest of the time the car runs mint and i'm very happy - 4.25/5
european
-overall i enjoy the car, but it's riddled with electrical gremlins. power locks quit working, power seats only adjust one way, the power antenna got stuck in the down position and now i only receive the stronger radio stations. 4/5
japanese
-i'm so mad at this car right now. everywhere i read it's rated to get 45mpg and no matter how i drive i can never even get 40mph. i've taken it in to the dealer 5 times already, and they can't find the problem! I guess otherwise the car is ok, but do NOT buy this car thinking it'll get good fuel economy. 4.5/5

i thought it was funny anyway...

IMO, i believe most ppl buy lcds/leds, because most of what is in Bestbuy are lcds, not to mention, the lcds almost always look much brighter and vibrant, in the showrooms, and generally have thinner bezels. Other than the bad viewing angles, i think lcds are more practical and a better choice, for being a "family tv".. The black levels on good leds are excellent and generally more than adequate for
the average user.

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post #7944 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

Man thanks now I look pretty dumb LOL

What does LOL mean? and you think you feel dumb?????

8.3 Surround, protected by APC H15 & UPS BC750G
Speakers: SpeakerCraft: 6 AIM8 Fives & 2 TIME Fives used as Wides
Woofers: SVS PB13-Ultra (1), HSU MBM-12 MK2 (2)
Samsung PN64F8500
Oppo 93, Denon 4311CI, Harmony 1100, 9 Noctua cooling fans, Darbee Darblet
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post #7945 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

What does LOL mean? and you think you feel dumb?????

biggrin.gif

My main setup
PN60E8000 Plus evolution 2013Kit + Directv genie + Panasonic 3D blu-ray player + Onkyo TX-NR 818 9.2 Bic F12 subs Onkyo M-5010 2-Channel Amplifier for wides.
MY 10' X 15' DEN
PN51F5500 + Directv Genie + Panasonic 3D blu-ray player + Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos top front Ceiling Speakers
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post #7946 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

What does LOL mean? and you think you feel dumb?????
Laugh Out Loud

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
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post #7947 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 09:25 PM
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Anyone have issues with blurays playing at 24p after the latest firmware update? Before I ran the update, my bluray player was outputing 24p, but now the tv will only accept a 60p input.

Samsung PN64F8500: Oppo 105D; Onkyo TX-SR805; Polk LSI x 5; Kimber Kable 12TC Speaker Cable; Monnster Cable Speaker Cable; Shunyata Research Aries interconnects; Shunyata Research Anaconda CX Power Cord; Monster Cable 700 and 1000 HDX HDMI Cables; John 3:16;
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post #7948 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 09:59 PM
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IMO, i believe most ppl buy lcds/leds, because most of what is in Bestbuy are lcds, not to mention, the lcds almost always look much brighter and vibrant, in the showrooms, and generally have thinner bezels. Other than the bad viewing angles, i think lcds are more practical and a better choice, for being a "family tv".. The black levels on good leds are excellent and generally more than adequate for
the average user.

yeah, I agree with that. but isn't that all how they are marketed?

if the showrooms weren't so bright...
if sales staff didn't talk about 'burn-in'...
if plasmas weren't marketed as being 'only good for dark rooms', and were instead more correctly marketed as 'the only good tv for dark rooms'...

I bought into it. i'm still looking for a 'good' LCD because I want to have a tv I can mistreat and not worry about. I want to use it as my computer monitor, I want to leave it on with an image paused for 3hrs, I want to use less energy... but all the 'features' in the world can't make up for a terrible picture. and the only LCD TV's I've seen that looked really good cost thousands more than the top end plasmas

I don't think there's anything wrong with LED blacks. I was super happy with how black the d6300 was. the problem was it wasn't all black. only about 70% of the screen ever got black, the rest was some weird tie-dye grey pattern... but I had to dig DEEP to find the terms 'flashlighting' and 'clouding'. I tried 2 different sets and stared at the display model for hours trying to figure out how these TV's were even sold.

imo, the flashlight/clouding is the single worst characteristic/flaw I've ever seen in any tv technology. the only way I can see cheaper edgelit TV's selling is because nobody talks about it. led's should be full array. I don't understand why samsungs EH series wasn't touted as the best value in LED's in the past 10yrs. it was the only LED backlit display I've seen retailing under 1000bux that was watchable in a 'normal' media room.

anyway, perhaps i'm overly biased. just annoyed with all my friends thinking ALL led's are better than ALL lcds which are better than ALL plasmas

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #7949 of 12621 Old 06-03-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Laugh Out Loud

I know

8.3 Surround, protected by APC H15 & UPS BC750G
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post #7950 of 12621 Old 06-04-2013, 12:29 AM
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Read a few hundred threads on avs last few weeks. Settled on the 64 inch f8500. Looks awesome.... my buzzing is terrible, I've read some have no buzz. Since it is open to interpretation of what is good or bad I installed app on android phone, sound meter by smart tools (free). I'm getting 58 db inch away from tv on right side, playing white breakin slide, google webpage should be similar. Pure colors on breakin slides produce no buzz (it's so nice!). white screens the worst. I Plan on calling BB to send service, but I figure I'd see if some people can measure there buzz (not alcohol related biggrin.gif) with same app so we can compare. Not really noticible in movie. Real bad in hockey and surfing web pages w majority white backround.Usually some buzz watching tv. Oh TV is mounted with slim tilting wall bracket. If I tilt TV then put back or move it fades or disapears, but always comes back. so I'm Thinking some mechanical mounting or stress maybe? Thanks......

ps just tested with radio shack sound meter 56db. also tv is pretty cranked, 20, 94, 55.fairly bright room. prob 60 hrs of use/breakin so far..


So sad today. I too have the dreaded buzz on 60 inch sitting 12 feet away, like a neon sign or a light bulb hum. Mine sits on a stand and I have noticed that if (as I sit on the couch) I bend forward lowering my ear level about a foot to a foot and a half...or if stand, getting about half-way to full height, thus raising my ear height a foot to a foot and a half, the buzz fades dramatically and is surely bearable. My Best Buy where purchased tried to sell me on a power conditioner to alleviate the buzz. He suggested I come in for a demo. My thought is that this tv is expensive enough that I should not have to invest further to make a product function as it should.

I am so torn as I can exchange, but I feel that the next one will buzz the same. I could try to have the tv sit higher, but on a stand, this would be impossible to raise a foot. Wall mounting in current location won't work because it sits angled in a corner.
Wall mounting above fireplace is an option, but I fear that tilting it down would create the same directional buzz (although the tilt could be reduced i guess).

My feeling is that I will have to jump to the led side, perhaps the F8000, but then I have the visual issues of flashlighting, etc to deal with. The one thing I have on my side is that movie watching is via projector, so I would seldom have to watch letterbox on the LED.

1. Has anyone experienced buzz reduction when using a power conditioner? Is so, which brand/model?

I do applaud Samsung for a beautiful tv design and picture quality with the F8500 series, as I have been holding out since returning a 64C8000 due to buzzing some years ago and hoped it had finally been solved...to no avail.
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