Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 268 - AVS Forum
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post #8011 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 02:56 AM
 
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^Either place the TV on a riser (but you will likely need to make one or have one made yourself as all the ones I've found on Amazon at least are too narrow to safely accommodate the TV) or by using an entertainment center with a specifically designed compartment for a center channel, or install the TV on something like a BDI Arena freestanding panel mount that sits behind the entertainment center. All are pretty costly options.
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post #8012 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

yeah, I agree with that. but isn't that all how they are marketed?

if the showrooms weren't so bright...
if sales staff didn't talk about 'burn-in'...
if plasmas weren't marketed as being 'only good for dark rooms', and were instead more correctly marketed as 'the only good tv for dark rooms'...

I bought into it. i'm still looking for a 'good' LCD because I want to have a tv I can mistreat and not worry about. I want to use it as my computer monitor, I want to leave it on with an image paused for 3hrs, I want to use less energy... but all the 'features' in the world can't make up for a terrible picture. and the only LCD TV's I've seen that looked really good cost thousands more than the top end plasmas

I don't think there's anything wrong with LED blacks. I was super happy with how black the d6300 was. the problem was it wasn't all black. only about 70% of the screen ever got black, the rest was some weird tie-dye grey pattern... but I had to dig DEEP to find the terms 'flashlighting' and 'clouding'. I tried 2 different sets and stared at the display model for hours trying to figure out how these TV's were even sold.

imo, the flashlight/clouding is the single worst characteristic/flaw I've ever seen in any tv technology. the only way I can see cheaper edgelit TV's selling is because nobody talks about it. led's should be full array. I don't understand why samsungs EH series wasn't touted as the best value in LED's in the past 10yrs. it was the only LED backlit display I've seen retailing under 1000bux that was watchable in a 'normal' media room.

anyway, perhaps i'm overly biased. just annoyed with all my friends thinking ALL led's are better than ALL lcds which are better than ALL plasmas

Interesting....as the sales guys in Magnolia ..in my experience..have always told me they preferred plasma

Its typically darker in Magnolia as well

The Samsung EH series dont have very good black levels or picture processing. I also believe for this series they went the way of the lower end LG's etc and dont have true motion interpolation( 120/240hz). Instead use the scanning/blinking backlight to simulate the effect of a panel that offers this

Things that allow them to market a TV at an LG price point for a given size


Warren

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post #8013 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Either place the TV on a riser (but you will likely need to make one or have one made yourself as all the ones I've found on Amazon at least are too narrow to safely accommodate the TV) or by using an entertainment center with a specifically designed compartment for a center channel, or install the TV on something like a BDI Arena freestanding panel mount that sits behind the entertainment center. All are pretty costly options.

all of those are going to be WAY below the cost of the TV that has been purchased

I guess I might be somewhat the odd ball..LOL

My Samsung E8000 is in an entertainment center that has dedicated areas for HT equipment...shelves above the TV and a place for the center channel below the TV

As some know here..my 64E8000 was a warranty replacement for a 64D8000 I bought at frys that failed...at a blowout price of $1299

I paid about $1500 for the entertainment center

If I were buying a $3500 TV... which I am not..
.I would consider what it took to get my TV "right" at a much higher $$ level....meaning I would be willing to spend a considerable amount more

I consider $3500 to be a LOT of money to pay for a TV...but if one decides to do so I would consider it just a relative purchase


Warren
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post #8014 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jav1 View Post

Hi, thinking of wall mounting my f8500. Would have it where the bottom portion of the screen would be at eye level. Obviously the panel has a very aggressive vertical filter if standing near it looking top down. Wondering if I need to be concerned looking bottom up when mounted?

Thanks

if you're more than 10feet away, it'll be no problem. inside of 5feet, it'll be annoying approaching unwatchable as you get closer. between the two, i'm not sure. it is an aggressive filter for sure. i'd guesstimate the vertical viewing angle at about 30* or less before you start to notice things.

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post #8015 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Interesting....as the sales guys in Magnolia ..in my experience..have always told me they preferred plasma

Its typically darker in Magnolia as well

The Samsung EH series dont have very good black levels or picture processing. I also believe for this series they went the way of the lower end LG's etc and dont have true motion interpolation( 120/240hz). Instead use the scanning/blinking backlight to simulate the effect of a panel that offers this

Things that allow them to market a TV at an LG price point for a given size


Warren

better sales staff in 'higher end' stores. compare it to the mass market of salespeople at walmart, bestbuy, etc and i don't think a large portion of the overall market gets good advice at the store level.

my comments about the EH series was more to show that the market wants thin. if i'm not mistaken(which i could be) the EH series was very comparable in most aspects to the edge lit versions of the same models. they were never going to be high end tv's, but they were LED tvs with good uniformity. and when the average consumer chooses, they end up taking the thin tv with poor uniformity over the 'thick' tv with great uniformity, and they were even willing to pay extra for it.

i think it's a shame, because if those tv's were marketed better, and the improvements in uniformity were pointed out, it might have led to the use of full array's in higher models with better panels in front of those backlights.

i just think it's sad that i need to 'downgrade' to CCFL LCD's in order to get a watchable picture(for me) in the dark. and it's quite a huge step up to a full array(when even available) because of low production which always increases price per unit.

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post #8016 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jrcfire4 View Post

Experiencing motion blur on fast paced sports and some action scenes on my Samsung Pn51f8500 - any suggestions?

Source? (i.e. cable/sat/broadcast vs Blu Ray?) Anything other than BD will be overcompressed and will have blur during fast motion especially if there's a lot of detail in the content. HD from sat/cable/broadcast is usually running 12-14 mbps at best, BD can run close to 40 mbps.

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post #8017 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 09:42 AM
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Already placed the order to get the 64", now still thinking whether to mount it on the wall or place it on the stand...
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post #8018 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Source? (i.e. cable/sat/broadcast vs Blu Ray?) Anything other than BD will be overcompressed and will have blur during fast motion especially if there's a lot of detail in the content. HD from sat/cable/broadcast is usually running 12-14 mbps at best, BD can run close to 40 mbps.
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post #8019 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 09:56 AM
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Thanks Steve - source is Comcast cable.
Most noticeable on hockey games, etc.
Any downside to activating the fast motion settings in setup guide.
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post #8020 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcfire4 View Post

Thanks Steve - source is Comcast cable.
Most noticeable on hockey games, etc.
Any downside to activating the fast motion settings in setup guide.

What are your settings? Also, you are at the mercy of the source, if you are coming from a smaller set certain things will stand out more.
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post #8021 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 11:42 AM
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I am really stuck between a rock and a hard place. I know this has been discussed till everyone was blue in the face. I have a 60" F7100 that started having power cycling issues so I will be returning it. I have a plasma in the bedroom and now I am considering the F8500 as a replacement to the f7100. My only issue is the dreaded lag I keep hearing about on this system and the old burn in issue. I don't play games often but sometimes I go on a tangent and may play 2-3 hours at a time.
Any truth to the rumors about a firmware update to improve lag times or is it really that much of an issue?
I really love the PQ of the F8500 how is the 3D compared to the F LCD series?

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post #8022 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by XBRSteve View Post

I am really stuck between a rock and a hard place. I know this has been discussed till everyone was blue in the face. I have a 60" F7100 that started having power cycling issues so I will be returning it. I have a plasma in the bedroom and now I am considering the F8500 as a replacement to the f7100. My only issue is the dreaded lag I keep hearing about on this system and the old burn in issue. I don't play games often but sometimes I go on a tangent and may play 2-3 hours at a time.
Any truth to the rumors about a firmware update to improve lag times or is it really that much of an issue?
I really love the PQ of the F8500 how is the 3D compared to the F LCD series?

I really don't think you will have a problem.

If the regular modes bother you too much (they don't bother me) then just switch to PC/Game mode and you should be fine.

Definitely don't think it's a reason to not go with this set unless someone is an absolutely hardcore gamer and sensitive to these issues.
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post #8023 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcfire4 View Post

Thanks Steve - source is Comcast cable.
Most noticeable on hockey games, etc.
Any downside to activating the fast motion settings in setup guide.
just my 2 cents but are you going through an av receiver and trying to upscale the scource like maybe to 24P i have a TX-NR818 and when i upscale the scource i get all kinds of lag and blur

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post #8024 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 12:46 PM
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I saw my 2nd ZT60 at another MHT location, giving me a chance to compare them with the F8500s located on the same wall.

To start, I noticed an issue with both of the ZT60s at both locations, a vertical line down the right side of the picture. The line tended to be darker than the surrounding area and appeared to be about 1" or so wide. On the first ZT60, due to the dark scene from Skyfall that was being repeated at the first MHT location, the line wasn't too bad, but still visible. However at the 2nd location, where the MHT store manager does a great job of setting up these panels (certainly better than the average MHT location), the vertical line was much more visible. At this location they were playing an HD nature video and there was a mix of bright daytime scenes together with some darker scenes. In the brighter scenes, you couldn't help but notice the line and its visibility varied depending on the color of the background. No other panel showed this and they were all playing the same material.

Now either this is inherent in the ZT60 or BB has gotten a bad shipment of ZT60s.

However with that said, the comparison of the ZT60 & F8500 was pretty much on par with that of the VT60 & F8500. The daytime scenes were really dramatic, IMO, in that the F8500 had much more depth and looked far more as you'd expect an outdoor scene to look. The ZT60 simply did not have the contrast to show these bright scenes like the F8500 could. At times it was dramatic.

I tried changing the mode to THX Bright Room. Basically that brightened the picture, but also flattened it out in a sense. So the picture was brighter, but the apparent contrast seemed even less. Regardless of settings, I could clearly make out more detail in the F8500.

All things considered, I'm glad I chose the 8500! smile.gif
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post #8025 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cosmos5861 View Post

What are some of the negatives on this Panel. I have heard buzzing is one. Any others?
you could go to any thread on any brand of TV and find issues just read everything you can and make a choice. i think everyone needs to look more for the positives that should be what you are looking for. because if your looking for negative stuff you will find it in anything
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post #8026 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

I really don't think you will have a problem.

If the regular modes bother you too much (they don't bother me) then just switch to PC/Game mode and you should be fine.

Definitely don't think it's a reason to not go with this set unless someone is an absolutely hardcore gamer and sensitive to these issues.

CNET article comparing input lag on various model tv's. Not looking very good for our baby: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/
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post #8027 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

CNET article comparing input lag on various model tv's. Not looking very good for our baby: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/
This was the writer's comment about PC mode......"The PC mode/renaming thing seems LG specific and a weird quirk, and again, I'm interested in keeping things as simple as possible for the moment--so for now I'll stick to straight game mode.".....
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post #8028 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I saw my 2nd ZT60 at another MHT location, giving me a chance to compare them with the F8500s located on the same wall.

To start, I noticed an issue with both of the ZT60s at both locations, a vertical line down the right side of the picture. The line tended to be darker than the surrounding area and appeared to be about 1" or so wide. On the first ZT60, due to the dark scene from Skyfall that was being repeated at the first MHT location, the line wasn't too bad, but still visible. However at the 2nd location, where the MHT store manager does a great job of setting up these panels (certainly better than the average MHT location), the vertical line was much more visible. At this location they were playing an HD nature video and there was a mix of bright daytime scenes together with some darker scenes. In the brighter scenes, you couldn't help but notice the line and its visibility varied depending on the color of the background. No other panel showed this and they were all playing the same material.

Now either this is inherent in the ZT60 or BB has gotten a bad shipment of ZT60s.

However with that said, the comparison of the ZT60 & F8500 was pretty much on par with that of the VT60 & F8500. The daytime scenes were really dramatic, IMO, in that the F8500 had much more depth and looked far more as you'd expect an outdoor scene to look. The ZT60 simply did not have the contrast to show these bright scenes like the F8500 could. At times it was dramatic.

I tried changing the mode to THX Bright Room. Basically that brightened the picture, but also flattened it out in a sense. So the picture was brighter, but the apparent contrast seemed even less. Regardless of settings, I could clearly make out more detail in the F8500.

All things considered, I'm glad I chose the 8500! smile.gif

yup, V line has been documented in the owners thread. sounds like it could be a mass produced issue.

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post #8029 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

yup, V line has been documented in the owners thread. sounds like it could be a mass produced issue.

Same line on my VT50 non issue

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post #8030 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 03:52 PM
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Have updated my bias lighting post at
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/6100_100#post_23323328 and Avatar.
Getting much more bias lighting below screen now.
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post #8031 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I saw my 2nd ZT60 at another MHT location, giving me a chance to compare them with the F8500s located on the same wall.

To start, I noticed an issue with both of the ZT60s at both locations, a vertical line down the right side of the picture. The line tended to be darker than the surrounding area and appeared to be about 1" or so wide. On the first ZT60, due to the dark scene from Skyfall that was being repeated at the first MHT location, the line wasn't too bad, but still visible. However at the 2nd location, where the MHT store manager does a great job of setting up these panels (certainly better than the average MHT location), the vertical line was much more visible. At this location they were playing an HD nature video and there was a mix of bright daytime scenes together with some darker scenes. In the brighter scenes, you couldn't help but notice the line and its visibility varied depending on the color of the background. No other panel showed this and they were all playing the same material.

Now either this is inherent in the ZT60 or BB has gotten a bad shipment of ZT60s.

However with that said, the comparison of the ZT60 & F8500 was pretty much on par with that of the VT60 & F8500. The daytime scenes were really dramatic, IMO, in that the F8500 had much more depth and looked far more as you'd expect an outdoor scene to look. The ZT60 simply did not have the contrast to show these bright scenes like the F8500 could. At times it was dramatic.

I tried changing the mode to THX Bright Room. Basically that brightened the picture, but also flattened it out in a sense. So the picture was brighter, but the apparent contrast seemed even less. Regardless of settings, I could clearly make out more detail in the F8500.

All things considered, I'm glad I chose the 8500! smile.gif

I originally had the 60" F8500 which I returned for the 64" F8500. During the period between sets I really considered the ZT60. The reviews were off the charts. However the VE shootout revealed the VT60 and the ZT60 had the same black levels when calibrated. I had seen the VT60 before the shootout and the F8500 just blew the VT60 out of the water with the sharpness of the picture and the brightness of the panel. Waiting, waiting, waiting for the ZT60 show up in my neighborhood. That didn't happen and still has not happened that I know off. While waiting for the ZT I could have bought a demo 60" or 70" Elite. The 60" was priced right, but the 70" was still too much money I thought. Plus I had talked myself into getting the 64" F8500. Therefore, I took advantage of a recent sale on the F8500 and got the 64". This TV constantly delights me. Watched a portion of Tron last night and was very satisfied with choosing the F8500. I've taken pictures of the F8500 with my iPhone, but the iPhone does not have a really good camera for low light environments and the pictures I have taken do not do the F8500 any kind of justice. The F8500's video processing is excellent. Samsung is doing something to the video signal to make the picture look so sharp. If I turn the sharpness control all the way to zero, I see a significant loss of detail. Whatever Samsung is doing, they are doing really well. I am constantly amazed at the amount of detail the panel can show.
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post #8032 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Same line on my VT50 non issue

Sure as heck was not a 'non-issue' on the 65" ZT60 I saw today. Quite visible with quite a bit of content. Also visible on the one I saw yesterday, but not as much since the repeated chapter from Skyfall was dark. Once the material is brighter, as I saw today, it's quite visible.
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post #8033 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

Have updated my bias lighting post at
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/6100_100#post_23323328 and Avatar.
Getting much more bias lighting below screen now.

Do you find it's worth it? I tried bias lighting on my Pro151 Kuro and eventually found it more distracting than anything.
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post #8034 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Sure as heck was not a 'non-issue' on the 65" ZT60 I saw today. Quite visible with quite a bit of content. Also visible on the one I saw yesterday, but not as much since the repeated chapter from Skyfall was dark. Once the material is brighter, as I saw today, it's quite visible.

I believe I read this same issue has also been reported by ST60 owners..
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post #8035 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

If I turn the sharpness control all the way to zero, I see a significant loss of detail.
So what do you normally set your sharpness to? A lot of folks say 0 sharpness is the normal setting for the Samsung tv.
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post #8036 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Same line on my VT50 non issue

sure...ok....if you say so.

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post #8037 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

So what do you normally set your sharpness to? A lot of folks say 0 sharpness is the normal setting for the Samsung tv.

Dan, this is probably the biggest deviation from 'recommended settings' I have with any display I've ever owned. I never like the '0' setting or its equivalent from any manufacturer's display. On the 8500 I keep it at 20 and see absolutely no artifacts. If I saw ringing or edge enhancement, I'd back off, but I don't. It was the same thing with my Kuro, Sharp Elite and Fujitsus. I've had Kevin Miller doing my ISF calibrations for years and I know he likes the more conservative sharpness settings. But when I've set it the way I like, I ask him to show me any artifacts he's seeing and invariably he sees none.

So I guess this is more 'adjust to taste'. I know some may say they may see a bit of edginess to test patterns, but if I can't see it in actual content, I don't worry about it.
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post #8038 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I saw my 2nd ZT60 at another MHT location, giving me a chance to compare them with the F8500s located on the same wall.

To start, I noticed an issue with both of the ZT60s at both locations, a vertical line down the right side of the picture. The line tended to be darker than the surrounding area and appeared to be about 1" or so wide. On the first ZT60, due to the dark scene from Skyfall that was being repeated at the first MHT location, the line wasn't too bad, but still visible. However at the 2nd location, where the MHT store manager does a great job of setting up these panels (certainly better than the average MHT location), the vertical line was much more visible. At this location they were playing an HD nature video and there was a mix of bright daytime scenes together with some darker scenes. In the brighter scenes, you couldn't help but notice the line and its visibility varied depending on the color of the background. No other panel showed this and they were all playing the same material.

Now either this is inherent in the ZT60 or BB has gotten a bad shipment of ZT60s.

However with that said, the comparison of the ZT60 & F8500 was pretty much on par with that of the VT60 & F8500. The daytime scenes were really dramatic, IMO, in that the F8500 had much more depth and looked far more as you'd expect an outdoor scene to look. The ZT60 simply did not have the contrast to show these bright scenes like the F8500 could. At times it was dramatic.

I tried changing the mode to THX Bright Room. Basically that brightened the picture, but also flattened it out in a sense. So the picture was brighter, but the apparent contrast seemed even less. Regardless of settings, I could clearly make out more detail in the F8500.

All things considered, I'm glad I chose the 8500! smile.gif

I would say this means they got a bad shipment at BB...as I doubt very seriously this is a standard issue at Panasonic

curiously though....as you continue to look at TV's

are you still in your return period of the 8500?...and what would you do if the ZT60 now looked better in the showroom than the F8500?


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post #8039 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 07:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

...but if I can't see it in actual content, I don't worry about it.

100 is the way to go.
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post #8040 of 12837 Old 06-06-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I would say this means they got a bad shipment at BB...as I doubt very seriously this is a standard issue at Panasonic

curiously though....as you continue to look at TV's

are you still in your return period of the 8500?...and what would you do if the ZT60 now looked better in the showroom than the F8500?


Warren

Warren, I'm at BB frequently for one reason or another and when I'm there, I never pass up the opportunity to drop into MHT. My wife says it's an 'obsession' and I wouldn't argue the case. wink.gif

At any rate, judging from the two I've seen and from what Airgas said above (some ZT owners reporting the same vertical line), I'm not so sure it's a bad shipment as opposed to issues revolving around the bonded glass screen that caused so many production problems for Panasonic. I know some conjectured what would happen to production models considering the issues Panasonic was having with the bonding process. So this may or may not be a manifestation of that.

I knew I wouldn't find the PQ to be better to my eyes than the 8500 one way or the other. I say that because I've seen the VT countless times in close proximity to the 8500, the ZT at the shootout and the Panasonic show and now twice on the same wall with the 8500. I never felt it was 'close' since I think the 8500 is a better overall performer.

But trust me, if for some reason I really did think the ZT was better, I'd find a way to get the ZT and either exchange or sell my 8500. Anyone that knows me at AVS over the years, knows this to be true. biggrin.gif
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