Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 325 - AVS Forum
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post #9721 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post

I have probably contributed to your concern on the firmware changing the picture with what happened from 1114 to 1115. In hindsight it pretty much seems the issue was actually the update process and not the update itself. While I did end up doing a by eye tune on 1115 after the factory reset, I think given that no one else seems to have had any change to the picture from 1115 it was likely the reset that pushed me into a new tune, and not the contents of 1115. I just got 1116 and see no change and from 1110 where I started through 1114 I had no real issues.

The good news is that this picture now is the best it has ever been, that started at 1115, the factory reset, and by-eye tune and held perfectly on the move to 1116. I think a lot of the improvement came from aging and acclimation, aging of the screen and my acclimation, the picture on my last tv was "softer" than this picture. I also think it is actually good that we are seeing a lively set of firmware releases as it shows they are actively working on things. Perhaps my biggest surprise was seeing them fix a very annoying problem with the "No Signal" error message when switching sources, you still get the message but not it goes away instantly when the picture shows up, before it lingered and you have to use the remote to clear (at least you did if you are as impatient as me). To my eye they also fixed the black popping in 2D.

My understanding is the best shopping time for sets of this ilk is Jan/Feb after CES in LV early Jan, they need to start unloading last years models for the new ones. At this point in the year I would wait until after Christmas unless this is planned as your "big" present.

Ok thanks for the info and that clears this issue up for me. I am now going to wait until CES to see what happens. I was going to possibly buy this set now from someone like Crutchfield who has a 60 day return and price matching policy but I may as well wait at this point.
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post #9722 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 07:35 AM
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Ok thanks for the info and that clears this issue up for me. I am now going to wait until CES to see what happens. I was going to possibly buy this set now from someone like Crutchfield who has a 60 day return and price matching policy but I may as well wait at this point.
Thats what I would do. Though so far from what ive read Samsung has been being coy when asked if they will be releasing a 2014 plasma panel. I google every day to see if there is any new news on this and the evo kit. Hope they say something before CES.

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9723 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 07:37 AM
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...I was considering the extended warranty. But with this being 20 percent of the cost of the 8500 it's very difficult to justify. I know the postings about extended warranties on this forum but what is the thought about Samsung's products. Do I really need to plan for a failure over the best five years in hopes of best buy giving me a new oled set?

I know I am the one who has to answer this, but just need a forum to guide me on Samsung's history with Plasma quality issues and decide if the PQ is remarkably better than the lower end products since the local store is not a Magnolia store... Right now a Costco 6350 and Square Trade warranty make a lot more sense than an unknown 8500 (probably discontinued in 2014) and $600 extended BB warranty.

First off, forget the BB warranty, that is the caddy of extended warranties and total overkill in my opinion, it is for the person that wants 200% protection since it covers every possible aspect of dealing with a failure, even a new tune after any repair or replacement, so if you have a 300+ buck tune on the set it might be worth it.

SquareTrade was under 10% for me, my policy is for $3,500 and cost $269 for 4 years of coverage, SquareTrade is always having sales just wait for a sale day to buy it.

Now more to your question, my experience with Samsung is that they make very reliable gear, I have had years direct experience with their TV's and more recently their tablets, so far no issues at all. Still, this is a 3,000 dollar purchase that while the odds are highly against it, it could die the day after the factory warranty expires, but on the other hand it could run for 10 years without an issue. Finding the failure rates / MTBF for any consumer product is next to impossible, the best you can do is hunt forums like this and see what people are saying.

That said, if something is going to fail it tends to happen in the early days, first few weeks are actually the highest failure rate for most electronics and I have seen very few infant mortality reports on Samsung TV's in general. If you make part the warranty without issues then chances are it will go the distance.

As you noted, it is clearly your call in the end based on your risk tolerance, given the cost of the set vs the insurance I opted for SquareTrade and bought the TV from BB, the idea of ending up with a 3,000 dollar crappy mirror after one year was past my risk tolerance. The TV I replaced was a pani plasma that had a 5 year warranty from Panasonic so I never got an extended warranty on it, but with a one year I felt the risk is just too high for what I think is a pretty reasonable price.

As to your buying decision, if you really like a LCD/LED picture you might not be as happy with a plasma, at least not on day one, it is not about what really is better but what you are used to and like. I went Tube to Plasma as I was trying to hold on to the qualities of a tube TV (I loved the picture on my last tube TV) and Plasma in my opinion is the only game in town for likeness to a tube TV. I have 2 very high end 24" PC led monitors and often have TV playing on one of them and it really looks great, but not what I like for really watching TV or movies if that is all I am doing at the time and since I spend way too much time in front of a PC monitor, it makes for a very nice switch up to watch things on the big screen plasma.

Good luck on your decision, I wanted something to cover me the 3-5 years I figure it will take OLED to hit the size and price point I am willing to pay and am glad I got the F8500 to hold me over until then.
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post #9724 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by psu85 View Post

Ok thanks for the info and that clears this issue up for me. I am now going to wait until CES to see what happens. I was going to possibly buy this set now from someone like Crutchfield who has a 60 day return and price matching policy but I may as well wait at this point.

Sounds like a good call to me, and for not using their extended return period for preference shopping, you get good karma points for that you can apply to your new TV smile.gif
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post #9725 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post


SquareTrade was under 10% for me, my policy is for $3,500 and cost $269 for 4 years of coverage, SquareTrade is always having sales just wait for a sale day to buy it.

CamaroDrvr do you (or anyone else reading this) have any opinion on directvs protection plan? I was thinking of going with it because it would cover not only my tv (up to a 2,000 repair)
but all their equipment and other electronics in my home plus free directv equipment upgrades every 2 years.

http://www.directv.com/technology/protection_plan

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9726 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

CamaroDrvr do you (or anyone else reading this) have any opinion on directvs protection plan? I was thinking of going with it because it would cover not only my tv (up to a 2,000 repair)
but all their equipment and other electronics in my home plus free directv equipment upgrades every 2 years.

http://www.directv.com/technology/protection_plan

Hmmmmm, and hmmmm, not really a tough call, I have no direct experience with DirectTV warranty or them for that matter so I can only speak to what I just read. It seems a bit high in price and low in coverage. It costs $239.88 per year (19.99 * 12), plus 50 bucks per service call, so you use it once and now the cost is $290 for that year. Keep in mind you get 100% coverage for 4 years for $269.99 from Square Trade.

Also there are some things in the fine print I don't like, for example, if they need to replace it, it can be whatever they want within the terms that are highly favorable to them so it could be refurbished or worse "like", it does not even have to be the same brand or model and it is only good to 2000 bucks, so your list price 3,000+ buck set will be replaced by something that costs under $2,000 (no thanks to that deal for me). I seriously doubt many people see cash, they probably get stuck with a Visio or something refurbished.

Their 8 buck deal for end-to-end coverage of the Direct TV gear sounds pretty good and I did not see any ugly caveats to that policy, no service fee for a call, no limit on calls or cost, and replaced with equal or better equipment is actually a sweet sounding deal, not so much for the 20 buck deal in my view.

I would get the 8 buck deal from Direct TV and a SquareTrade on the TV, the DirectTV warranty will cost you $959.52 for the same 4 year coverage SquareTrade offers, and not really fully cover you and cost 50 bucks a call.

4 Year Cost Premium with DTV = $960 (Everything but only 67% coverage of your TV cost)
4 Year Cost TV Only with STW = $270 (100% TV)
4 Year Cost Basic with DTV = $384 (100% DTV component coverage and new stuff every 2 years)
4 Year All-In DTV/STW Combo = $654

The combo gives you way better coverage for $306 bucks less over 4 years and you get the 2 year "free" upgrades. I do not know anything about DirectTV component costs or their equipment upgrade history/frequency so can't speak to if the upgrade part is worth $384 bucks for best case 2 upgrades, but I think the "hey it is broke, fix" part would be worth it to me for the peace of mind that if the system breaks they troubleshoot it an fix it. I have never regretted buying that from Comcast, even if I have to remind them I have the end-to-end deal, everything short of a broken TV is their people to fix on their dime.

If you are a math guy I think the answer is clear smile.gif
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post #9727 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post


I would get the 8 buck deal from Direct TV and a SquareTrade on the TV, the DirectTV warranty will cost you $959.52 for the same 4 year coverage SquareTrade offers, and not really fully cover you and cost 50 bucks a call.

If you are a math guy I think the answer is clear smile.gif

Hey thanks for reading and responding smile.gif
I already have the 8 buck directv deal and they will be giving me brand new receivers in April when im eligible. I had a directv tech also come to my home to realign my dish and it was indeed free. So yes the 8 buck deal is great. As for the other deal I agree that the 2,000 dollar limit is not enough. SquareTrade seems to be the way to go as for as extended warranties go. They also seem to have the best reputation out there too.

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9728 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:07 AM
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Hey thanks for reading and responding smile.gif
I already have the 8 buck directv deal and they will be giving me brand new receivers in April when im eligible. I had a directv tech also come to my home to realign my dish and it was indeed free. So yes the 8 buck deal is great. As for the other deal I agree that the 2,000 dollar limit is not enough. SquareTrade seems to be the way to go as for as extended warranties go. They also seem to have the best reputation out there too.

I have been using SquareTrade for around 10 years now and called on them twice in that time, my camera got lcd cancer to the point you could not see the picture anymore and no optical viewfinder and they offered a replacement that was two models up from the one I had, I was pretty happy. The second was a Sony TV, and they had a local repair guy there the next day (not saying it will always work out like that but it did for me), he needed a part he did not have but he came back the next day and it fixed it. I was not happy at the time with the extra day (the only other TV was in our bedroom at the time and so nearly 3 days of it being the family room, but still pretty good considering.)
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post #9729 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:13 AM
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I have been using SquareTrade for around 10 years now and called on them twice in that time, my camera got lcd cancer to the point you could not see the picture anymore and no optical viewfinder and they offered a replacement that was two models up from the one I had, I was pretty happy. The second was a Sony TV, and they had a local repair guy there the next day (not saying it will always work out like that but it did for me), he needed a part he did not have but he came back the next day and it fixed it. I was not happy at the time with the extra day (the only other TV was in our bedroom at the time and so nearly 3 days of it being the family room, but still pretty good considering.)

Sounds great. Thats pretty awesome they replaced and upgraded your camera. Cant get better then that. I wish samsung had a tv upgrade program so we could trade in our tvs every year for the latest model lol. tongue.gif

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9730 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:16 AM
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I agree. Standard mode looks way better now and I notice Black Optimizer is much more effective now also. I can now really see the difference in Dark vs. Bright room.

I really like what Bright room did for my last tune, if it stays I am actually done messing with it, this took a little longer that my last set to get to this point, but I am there now, whew!
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post #9731 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

Sounds great. Thats pretty awesome they replaced and upgraded your camera. Cant get better then that. I wish samsung had a tv upgrade program so we could trade in our tvs every year for the latest model lol. tongue.gif

Well on the camera it was due to price drops over the nearly 3 years since I bought it, your mileage may vary as they say.

That would be nice, I think BB has some kind of program for that, not sure it covers TV's but that I can't remember the details of it suggests it was not as good as it sounded.

I think the issue is there is not a big after market with the right profitability for anyone to figure out how to make this work on a big scale and the biggest part of the problem is that the price vs feature / function / performance go in the opposite direction big time, such as in the camera situation. Look at how many folks are sitting on a 4,000+ buck 65ZT60 now selling for a little over 3K, in 6 months and for 4K you can get a 4K...
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post #9732 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post

I really like what Bright room did for my last tune, if it stays I am actually done messing with it, this took a little longer that my last set to get to this point, but I am there now, whew!

Im using philwojos d nice settings with black optimizer on auto. I used to have it on dark always.

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9733 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:31 AM
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I agree. Standard mode looks way better now and I notice Black Optimizer is much more effective now also. I can now really see the difference in Dark vs. Bright room.

so whats improved in standard mode? and did this change when upgrading the firmware to 1116? im currently in relaxed mode for uverse with cell light at 15.
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post #9734 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:34 AM
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Well on the camera it was due to price drops over the nearly 3 years since I bought it, your mileage may vary as they say.

That would be nice, I think BB has some kind of program for that, not sure it covers TV's but that I can't remember the details of it suggests it was not as good as it sounded.

I think the issue is there is not a big after market with the right profitability for anyone to figure out how to make this work on a big scale and the biggest part of the problem is that the price vs feature / function / performance go in the opposite direction big time, such as in the camera situation. Look at how many folks are sitting on a 4,000+ buck 65ZT60 now selling for a little over 3K, in 6 months and for 4K you can get a 4K...

for 4k you can get a 4k.
Watch sammy or panasonic use that line now lol.

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9735 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by goldicon12 View Post

so whats improved in standard mode? and did this change when upgrading the firmware to 1116? im currently in relaxed mode for uverse with cell light at 15.

Standard looks brighter now and clearer then before IMO. I still prefer movie mode though. I first noticed an improvement in 1115 actually. Seems even better in 1116 though.

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9736 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:42 AM
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Im using philwojos d nice settings with black optimizer on auto. I used to have it on dark always.

Do you have a link to his settings or message number? While I am happy with these, I do like to check out others, never know what you might find.

This set is the family set and in the living room, most of the time lights are on, enough to comfortably read by as someone is usually doing something in addition to watching TV only really darken it when watching a Blu-ray movies and that is about 10% of its use. So most of the time it is in Cal-Day, when just the kids are watching then often in Dynamic (they love Dynamic and I have it pushed even hotter than it comes out of the box, I let them guide the tune on that one using Cars), I am mixed between Movie (tuned) and Cal Night that I tuned specifically for movies in ideal lighting, there is something in Movie I just can't seem to get in Cal-Night, more of a "quality" than a specific setting, Movie is for darker films and 2D, Cal-Night for brighter films and 3D. That said, 90% of the time it is in Cal-Day, tuned with DVE and WOW, but then "fine" tuned to HD TV content from the HTPC, which oddly looks better than from the Comcast cable box directly. (HTPC has a Ceton Quad tuner board with a Comcast Cable card so we can watch and record from cable, 22TB DVR...)
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post #9737 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

Standard looks brighter now and clearer then before IMO. I still prefer movie mode though. I first noticed an improvement in 1115 actually. Seems even better in 1116 though.

Agreed and while still the leased used on our set (it is mostly on Cal-Day), I would describe standard from 1111 to now as cleaner and brighter at the defaults, which are the same.
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post #9738 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 10:00 AM
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Do you have a link to his settings or message number? While I am happy with these, I do like to check out others, never know what you might find.

This set is the family set and in the living room, most of the time lights are on, enough to comfortably read by as someone is usually doing something in addition to watching TV only really darken it when watching a Blu-ray movies and that is about 10% of its use. So most of the time it is in Cal-Day, when just the kids are watching then often in Dynamic (they love Dynamic and I have it pushed even hotter than it comes out of the box, I let them guide the tune on that one using Cars), I am mixed between Movie (tuned) and Cal Night that I tuned specifically for movies in ideal lighting, there is something in Movie I just can't seem to get in Cal-Night, more of a "quality" than a specific setting, Movie is for darker films and 2D, Cal-Night for brighter films and 3D. That said, 90% of the time it is in Cal-Day, tuned with DVE and WOW, but then "fine" tuned to HD TV content from the HTPC, which oddly looks better than from the Comcast cable box directly. (HTPC has a Ceton Quad tuner board with a Comcast Cable card so we can watch and record from cable, 22TB DVR...)

Im basically in a batcave and Dynamic is too LED like, too bright on this tv for me and also too bluish. I therefore never use it. Also Dynamic's nickname is torch mode because they say it will make your tv wear out faster. When I want that bright picture effect for say like animation for instance ill use standard. I also never use relax. To me movie is the best because it is darker and with the right settings brings out the blacks better then any other mode on the tv IMO. Anyway heres a link to the settings

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467675/f8500-recommended-settings-thread/930#post_23423384

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9739 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 10:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post

I think the issue is there is not a big after market with the right profitability for anyone to figure out how to make this work on a big scale and the biggest part of the problem is that the price vs feature / function / performance go in the opposite direction big time, such as in the camera situation. Look at how many folks are sitting on a 4,000+ buck 65ZT60 now selling for a little over 3K, in 6 months and for 4K you can get a 4K...
Even so, they'd be downgrading in everything except resolution. To that I say, no thanks.
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post #9740 of 12337 Old 12-19-2013, 02:14 PM
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@CamaroDrvr - The 1114-1116 fw updates also knocked my set out of tune. I would like to do a factory reset like you. Will you please explain the steps to do this? I had the standard remote for the f8500 delivered, so I have that on hand to get into the service menu. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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post #9741 of 12337 Old 12-20-2013, 10:44 AM
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Well, after reading all the interesting comments about the firmware update, I had to go and see what would happen.... Yea, it's a character defect.

Result: Nothing changed in my settings. So, I am wondering if it is a function of having turned on the day/night mode, prior to the update or just a failure during the update that basically resets like exiting the service menu. I haven't bothered to activate those modes yet, as I have been seasoning the display to calibrate, etc...

I'm sure this is somewhere in the thread, but just to make sure it's common knowledge...... If you go into the service menu, then when you exit, it resets the picture settings to their default state and exits in Dynamic mode. So, (being a bit lazy here), are folks talking about this condition?

FWIW, I'm not sure the buzz changed much if at all.
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post #9742 of 12337 Old 12-20-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by randomhero11 View Post

@CamaroDrvr - The 1114-1116 fw updates also knocked my set out of tune. I would like to do a factory reset like you. Will you please explain the steps to do this? I had the standard remote for the f8500 delivered, so I have that on hand to get into the service menu. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24098884

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24098899
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post #9743 of 12337 Old 12-20-2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tbaudoin View Post

Well, after reading all the interesting comments about the firmware update, I had to go and see what would happen.... Yea, it's a character defect.

Result: Nothing changed in my settings. So, I am wondering if it is a function of having turned on the day/night mode, prior to the update or just a failure during the update that basically resets like exiting the service menu. I haven't bothered to activate those modes yet, as I have been seasoning the display to calibrate, etc...

I'm sure this is somewhere in the thread, but just to make sure it's common knowledge...... If you go into the service menu, then when you exit, it resets the picture settings to their default state and exits in Dynamic mode. So, (being a bit lazy here), are folks talking about this condition?

FWIW, I'm not sure the buzz changed much if at all.

Buzz didn't change, and that's the only reason I updated (not that the buzz ever really mattered on my F8500, though it does on my D7000).

But no, the service menu always resets picture settings. We're just talking about a full-on factory reset. Unfortunately for me, it only made it look as good as it did when I updated to 1115, which still includes fuzz and the like.

Damien said his looks fine after a factory reset, but after he explained he has Digial Clean View and MPEG Noise Filter set to Auto, that must explain it. I can't have them on Auto and in all good consciousness call it a superior image, especially for Blu-rays. I can maybe afford with setting one of them on Low and increasing the sharpness setting a little bit for DirecTV, but that's about the extent of it. Any more is killing the source material and softening it.
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post #9744 of 12337 Old 12-20-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

Buzz didn't change, and that's the only reason I updated (not that the buzz ever really mattered on my F8500, though it does on my D7000).

But no, the service menu always resets picture settings. We're just talking about a full-on factory reset. Unfortunately for me, it only made it look as good as it did when I updated to 1115, which still includes fuzz and the like.

Damien said his looks fine after a factory reset, but after he explained he has Digial Clean View and MPEG Noise Filter set to Auto, that must explain it. I can't have them on Auto and in all good consciousness call it a superior image, especially for Blu-rays. I can maybe afford with setting one of them on Low and increasing the sharpness setting a little bit for DirecTV, but that's about the extent of it. Any more is killing the source material and softening it.

I noticed you said that your cal-day and night settings didn't change much after factory reset. Mine were completely gone after I did it. Did you have your cal modes turned on by a pro calibrator? in which case they probably have a way of locking them in. Its just odd that my were gone.
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post #9745 of 12337 Old 12-20-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Buffin View Post

I noticed you said that your cal-day and night settings didn't change much after factory reset. Mine were completely gone after I did it. Did you have your cal modes turned on by a pro calibrator? in which case they probably have a way of locking them in. Its just odd that my were gone.

My presets were removed so I had to go back into the SM to unlock them again, but when I unlocked them, many of their settings stuck (cell light, contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, tint, gamma, white balance, etc). There were a few things that changed, but the fact that some was the same is a bit peculiar to me.

I got mine professionally calibrated, but that's all I can say on the matter there.
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post #9746 of 12337 Old 12-20-2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

My presets were removed so I had to go back into the SM to unlock them again, but when I unlocked them, many of their settings stuck (cell light, contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, tint, gamma, white balance, etc). There were a few things that changed, but the fact that some was the same is a bit peculiar to me.

I got mine professionally calibrated, but that's all I can say on the matter there.

Interesting. I haven't unlocked my cal presets yet after the reset. When I do, I will check and let you know if my cal modes stayed the same or defaulted back. Not sure if I will have time today though.
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post #9747 of 12337 Old 12-20-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

Hey thanks for reading and responding smile.gif
I already have the 8 buck directv deal and they will be giving me brand new receivers in April when im eligible. I had a directv tech also come to my home to realign my dish and it was indeed free. So yes the 8 buck deal is great. As for the other deal I agree that the 2,000 dollar limit is not enough. SquareTrade seems to be the way to go as for as extended warranties go. They also seem to have the best reputation out there too.
Ya, and when you get the new equipment I bet you have to sign a 2 year contract. New clients get the BIG price breaks and new equipment.
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post #9748 of 12337 Old 12-20-2013, 09:03 PM
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Ya, and when you get the new equipment I bet you have to sign a 2 year contract. New clients get the BIG price breaks and new equipment.

Yeah new customers get the biggest breaks thats for sure. But I cant complain I love directv's dvr and the picture. I split the bill 4 ways in my home so the price is fine. There is no FIOS, time warner or comcast in my area only optimum. I tried optimums dvr and its just awful. FIOS is at least 2 years away from my area anyway so signing up to directv for more years isnt a problem at all. Been using them actually since 1998.

Samsung F8500 Service menu factory reset and activating cal modes instructions

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072
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post #9749 of 12337 Old 12-21-2013, 04:25 AM
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Well its official now. Just got word they are in. Since no official thread was started I thought I would do the honors. Chad will be here soon to do his things, pics to come asap !!
.



Review: Samsung PN-64F8500 plasma


When I arrived at Cleveland Plasma to check out this latest beauty from Samsung, Chris could barely contain himself as he told me of the excitement the F8500 has been generating online. Big improvements over last year's E series were expected, and specifics were just beginning to trickle in. I was appreciative of Samsung's previous lines, though I admit feeling somewhat let down at the E series' limited brightness and lack of substantial improvement over the D series. Chris said it looked like the F series was going to change all that, and he was right on the money.

This is an attractive TV, with a narrow pewter bezel, slim profile, and a tiny, top mounted Skype camera. The remote is a small but solid-feeling clickable touchpad device.

The screen soaks up ambient light very well. With very bright ceiling lights on, reflections were dark and well suppressed. I could see myself looking at the screen with some effort, but my reflection appeared to be a mostly featureless silhouette.

I could hear a small amount of buzzing very close to the screen, though by about a 6 foot distance the whirring of a Blu Ray player masked the slight buzzing with most content. Some bright test patterns, like the ANSI checkerboard pattern, generated a little more buzzing that was audible from 8 or 9 feet. This can vary from one set to the next, but it is safe to say it will not be an issue on this sample.

The viewing angle is perfect from side to side, and as long as you don't stand close to a F8500 that is on the floor you shouldn't be bothered by any dimming in the vertical direction.

Before calibration:

Standard

The F8500 initially defaults to Standard mode, which looked a bit etched and artificially enhanced. Pans had the uber-smooth soap opera feel, though at times motion broke up and appeared choppy. Despite the fact that still images looked excessively grainy, it appeared that strong noise reduction was at work with moving images, making them smoother but somewhat smeared. The picture lacked stability, with brightness pumping and flashing apparent at times. Colors were vibrant and fairly pleasing, though not quite lifelike and natural. Whites appeared bright, bluish, and somewhat flat; and brightly lit faces were overexposed and suffered from a caked on makeup look. Deep blacks and fairly good shadow detail hinted of good things to come, but this display's as-delivered state hardly puts it's best foot forward.

Relax

Relax was quite similar to Standard, though without the overexposed look. Colors popped and skin tones were not as offensive as one might expect, though the overall look was more subdued and “doctored” than realistic.

Movie

Colors, which were respectable in the previous modes, improved quite a bit by switching over to Movie mode. They appeared much more realistic, though perhaps a bit pale in overall balance. In addition, the picture gained brightness and pop, and realism took a leap forward. However, depth could be a bit lacking, and whites had a bit of an off-white or greenish tinge. At times, I thought I glimpsed hints of the dirty screen effect, in which bright panning objects appeared smudged or dirty until they stop moving. Though to a much smaller degree than in the two previous modes, graininess with still images and glazed over motion were visible. Stability, contrast, and shadow detail were impressive. It appeared that Movie mode has some great qualities, though it was not quite seductively rich or lifelike yet.

Dynamic

Ugh... With it's cartoonish colors and gaudy whites, Dynamic wore thin in a hurry. However, it was bright and punchy, which will appeal to some at least in the short term.

Tweaks

A few simple things can be done by anyone to bring out significantly more performance in Movie mode. Turning sharpness down to half or less of it's starting position will reduce graininess, and with 1080 HD sources changing the Picture Size from 16:9 to Screen Fit will improve sharpness and eliminate overscan. In Picture options, changing Color Tone from Warm2 to Warm1 alleviates the off white and greenish tinge, and turning off the other various “enhancements” found there will increase the accuracy of the picture. Finally, in the advanced settings, reducing gamma to -1 eliminated a slightly flat sensation. Later, after examining the measurements, I was surprised at this since gamma was already quite high, but I did feel it made an improvement short of a more complete calibration with the aid of test equipment. After making these simple changes, without the aid of test patterns of any kind, the F8500's performance improved significantly. Thus configured and viewed in a light controlled room, the F8500 is a real head turner.

Black levels

The richness of blacks and contrast is arguably the toughest test for any display, and traditionally a good plasma will outperform a conventional LED in that regard. While last year's E series took a timid step forward, there is no doubt the F8500's blacks take a more confident leap ahead. In Movie mode's picture options, a selection called Black optimizer does seem to make the blacks darker when set to Dark room. In that setting, the black level, which appeared excellent before, improved even further; coaxing what appears to be state of the art black level performance out of the F8500. Do the blacks appear illuminated with the lights out in the Dark room setting? Yes; not even the last run of Elite Kuros could claim otherwise. However, the F8500 is so good that nearly any significant picture content made the blacks appear extremely or even totally devoid of light, which is a significant accomplishment. Bright objects appear to come out of a velvety, inky black background. However, the extra darkness comes at the price of stability. Later testing revealed that Dark room caused dynamic fluctuation of the blacks, so it will be a judgment call on whether to take advantage of that circuitry.

Black levels were measured with a C6 meter profiled with a Jeti 1211 reference spectro to the F8500.

Black level measured .0069 fL with Black optimizer off and a 1080P/60 source. With the Black optimizer set to Dark room or Auto, it measured .0025 fL. With 1080P/24 and cinema smooth on, black level was .0072/.0025 fL, which is not significantly different. With Black Optimizer set to either auto or Dark room, Movie mode's modified ANSI contrast ratio was 7436:1, at 34.95/.0047 fL. That was further evidence of some black level floating, as the black level on a dark screen was significantly lower than black level of the checkerboard. Because of this fluctuating black level in the Dark room setting, I made the decision to do the calibration in Movie mode with the Black optimizer off. As calibrated, with Black optimizer off, the modified ANSI contrast ratio measured 6034:1, at 38.62/.0064 fL.

Calibration

After going into the service menu, I opened up the Cal-Day and Cal-Night modes, which are normally not present in the TV's menu. In a departure from previous Samsungs, these modes, before calibration, produced one of the worst, most peculiar pictures I've seen yet on a modern plasma. After resetting some curiously strange settings, things looked much, much better.

The F8500 is a light output heavyweight, breaking records in my experience for large plasmas. Light output could have been as high as 58 fL after calibration in Movie mode, though I backed that down to about 51 fL after viewing some program material. Cal-Day could be calibrated up to an astonishing 84.1 fL, but otherwise behaved similarly to Movie mode once the proper groundwork was laid. The light output with a 100% full white screen was a super strong 23.4 fL. Cal-Day could reach well into the 40's with the ANSI checkerboard pattern, which is a record in my experience. These are wonderful numbers for hockey fans, because the F8500 will maintain brightness better when showing a bright rink than any other plasma I know of. It's also great news for those who have brighter rooms, because the F8500 will remain punchy when other plasmas begin to look bland.

Calibration of Movie mode was straightforward, until I got to the CMS adjustment. In the past year, thanks to advances in software capability, I've transitioned from calibrating only fully saturated colors to focusing more on 75% saturations at 75% luminance, which gives a better approximation of real world picture content. With the F8500, it's just not possible to accurately calibrate the CMS at 75% saturation; it's color gamut shrinks as saturation is reduced. I ended up targeting somewhere in between the old standard of 100% saturation/75% luminance and 75% saturation/75% luminance. What I got was a perfectly acceptable compromise, with all color saturation delta errors below about 2, but with slightly pale shades below full purity.

Unlike the E series, the F8500 goes blue the more load is placed on the ABL circuitry by progressively larger measurement windows. This is subjectively more pleasing than the more earthy tone the E series exhibited with bright scenes. In my estimation, good window sizes to use for calibration seem to be either 5% conventional windows or approximately 18% APL windows.

With a 1080P/24 signal and Cinema Smooth engaged, my meter synced at around 96 Hz.

Cinema Smooth caused a significant shift in gamma and white balance, adding an average of 3 dE to the grayscale run. Because of this, it may be desirable to either send a Blu Ray signal to a dedicated input, put up with some motion judder by leaving Cinema Smooth off if you're not much of a movie watcher, or calibrate with Cinema Smooth on and let TV content be a bit less accurate.

After calibration:

How does the F8500 look after all the tweaks have been made? Majestic, with bright scenes oodling pop and excitement like I've never seen on a large plasma. It's textures are smooth, devoid of graininess. Colors look very lifelike, but on the polite side of accurate. Blacks and contrast are excellent, though not a substitute for the late, great Kuro king. The black bars are just visible with letterbox movies, but only in a dark room. Because of the way bright objects change our perception, the bars tend to be more visible with dark movie scenes than bright ones. Shadow detail is superb, looking correct in intensity and neutral in color. Resolution and sharpness are as good as I've seen.

I've calibrated many Panasonic 65VT50s, with the last one being just a couple of days ago. Though I did not have one available for a side by side comparison, I know it extremely well and can give impressions of how it and the F8500 compare.

Compared to the VT50 calibrated in the normal fashion of ISF Day using mid panel brightness, the F8500 is punchier in bright scenes. It is also a bit smoother, especially up close. The VT50 has slightly superior color accuracy, though it looks a bit more “hot” and colored with skin tones than the F8500's more relaxed color palette. If you are easily offended by the sunburnt look skin tones have on many displays, the F8500's less saturated but still seductive colors will be like a soothing balm on your eyes. The VT50's blacks are superior, though subjectively they appear extremely close. Dark movie scenes in dark rooms may show the VT50's slightly superior blacks. Motion quality will depend on if you use Cinema Smooth or not, but I prefer the VT50's motion overall. The F8500's edge in brightness makes it superior in slightly brighter rooms or if you just like brighter images.

The F8500 is a winner, with special appeal to lovers of bright and punchy images. It's color was very natural and easy on the eyes, and over all it's performance keeps pace with the very best.

Samsung 64F8500 movie.pdf 785k .pdf file

Chad B
.


Chad B

We'd really like to hear any updates to this review you made back in March.
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post #9750 of 12337 Old 12-22-2013, 10:26 PM
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Ok, hooked up my new 64" 8500. All i can say is 'wow"! How can anyone complain about anything with this televisions.
Brightness, black, quality. all just so fluid and rich in depth and color. Having some issues integrating control4 into system, but holy cow, no regrets.

Any help with settings to maximize satisfaction would be greatly appreciated.
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7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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