Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:25 PM
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I tried movie mode, standard, and dynamic, all had the brightness pops. Turned down the cell light in movie mode, still visable. So not sure what is causing it or what can be done to fix it. I came from a VT50 because it had faint vertical lines that could be seen during hockey broadcasts that was deemed a defect, but I'd rather have that then brighness pops. Lines that you had to know where to look in order to see them vs brightness pops that are easily visable no matter where you look. I also have the 64F8500 if that makes a difference.

The one thing I am trying, and wondering if it makes a difference, is the software update that is supposed to help improve the picture. Maybe once the update runs the brightness pops disappear. Maybe that's why some see it and some don't. The ones that don't ran the update on setup and the ones that do didn't run it. I didn't run it right away, so hoping that by installing it, it clears up. Will let you know if that helps.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I'd also like to see a black scene coming out of a bright one. Someone mentioned they saw a bit of a lag before the blacks were fully black. We'll try to check that out as well as the brightness fluctuations for something like hockey (if there's a hockey game when I'm there).

If you ahve it to test Harry POtter Deathly Hallows Pt 2 death eater attack hogwarts scene would probably be a tourture test wink.gif
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:31 PM
 
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Thats a good movie, not sure if that would be my choice to unwind though wink.gif Since i WFH and watch sports, movies\tv during the day I need a more versitile set.....Im am trying to convince myself to hold off though, but my upgrageitis is starting to get the better of me....I stil have yet to retire my BDP5K since it still works lol, but that will be "put in the closet" this year as well.....
Cost and current expenses are a few of the things keeping me from jumping in. And wow, you haven't been to that universal BD player thread in a while. wink.gif Some new films (Life of Pi) are not working at all according to reports (I ditched mine already, and it's one of the things that keeps me from making Samsung my first brand choice, though I have a washer, dryer, and phone that have worked out pretty well).
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Don't do it Vinnie. Watch Rise of the Guardians or something uplifting. Or I fear we'll have to carry you out on your plasma like the Romans carried fallen soldiers out of the field of battle on their shields. smile.gifwink.gifsmile.gifwink.gifsmile.gif
(Already saw that one). Still, maybe that is a bad idea, especially with the neglected child, but I don't have a drug problem. I'll just laugh at the characters' plight thinking how much worse I could have it. biggrin.gifwink.giftongue.gifrolleyes.gif
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

I tried movie mode, standard, and dynamic, all had the brightness pops. Turned down the cell light in movie mode, still visable. So not sure what is causing it or what can be done to fix it. I came from a VT50 because it had faint vertical lines that could be seen during hockey broadcasts that was deemed a defect, but I'd rather have that then brighness pops. Lines that you had to know where to look in order to see them vs brightness pops that are easily visable no matter where you look. I also have the 64F8500 if that makes a difference.

The one thing I am trying, and wondering if it makes a difference, is the software update that is supposed to help improve the picture. Maybe once the update runs the brightness pops disappear. Maybe that's why some see it and some don't. The ones that don't ran the update on setup and the ones that do didn't run it. I didn't run it right away, so hoping that by installing it, it clears up. Will let you know if that helps.

What are your Brightness\Contrast settings? what wer the cell light settings you tested?

Im wondering if we are seeing the difference betweeen calibrated and non calibrated sets. If you can adjsut Gamma try the setting of -1 ..I wonder if the gamma setitngs will effect anything......Also be sure you have all of the ECO mode settings set to off as I have heard reports of the ECO mode causing havoc with sets especially with bright scenes........

Now are you seeing Brightness fluctuations or the strobes, there are two things happening during haocky games (FLuctuations, where you will see viable darkening and lightining of the entire screen) and the storbe\flash of the phtotogrophers which look like flashes of light......One cant be fixed, the other can (sometimes)......

I am guessing your VT50 was the 65" version yes?
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Cost and current expenses are a few of the things keeping me from jumping in. And wow, you haven't been to that universal BD player thread in a while. wink.gif Some new films (Life of Pi) are not working at all according to reports (I ditched mine already, and it's one of the things that keeps me from making Samsung my first brand choice, though I have a washer, dryer, and phone that have worked out pretty well).
(Already saw that one). Still, maybe that is a bad idea, especially with the neglected child, but I don't have a drug problem. I'll just laugh at the characters' plight thinking how much worse I could have it. biggrin.gifwink.giftongue.gifrolleyes.gif

I drop in now and then, but really dont post there wink.gif Mine is still chugging along though and I dont buy as many titles as I once did and am mroe selective, so my troubles are few and far betweeen....The only real reason I keep it around is for the large HD DVD collection I still have. I have an Xbox HD DVD player in the box and in the closet, but its time I move to a dedicated BR player smile.gif

I udnertand the cost and current expenses...I dont upgrade often. so when I upgrade this year (unless soemthing come up) I probably wont upgrade again for another 5+ years.....

As far as Trainspotting goes, not so sure you can laugh that one off wink.gif
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:41 PM
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My VT50 was a 55", so big upgrade in size. The brightness pops are just that, not the strobes. The whole picture brightens at certain areas of the screen, more so when play is in one end. And it jumps twice, so not the strobes, I've seen those. Never did check the ECO settings, I'll check them when the update is finished. I just assumed everything would be turned off there. My settings are just baisc movie mode for now, with color setting to normal and motion stuff turned off. Haven't done much else. Contrast 95 and brightness what ever the default is. Other then the pops, great tv. Really hoping the update clears that up
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I drop in now and then, but really dont post there wink.gif Mine is still chugging along though and I dont buy as many titles as I once did and am mroe selective, so my troubles are few and far betweeen....The only real reason I keep it around is for the large HD DVD collection I still have. I have an Xbox HD DVD player in the box and in the closet, but its time I move to a dedicated BR player smile.gif

I udnertand the cost and current expenses...I dont upgrade often. so when I upgrade this year (unless soemthing come up) I probably wont upgrade again for another 5+ years.....

As far as Trainspotting goes, not so sure you can laugh that one off wink.gif
I don't buy much either, but I do rent! Gotta' give this Kuro the beef that it craves. wink.gif
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:48 PM
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When I was at Magnolia last week, they had a 64" and a 51" running the same BestBuy demo reel. The 64" looked great while the 51" have some sort of flashing going on no matter what setting, content, or source. I overheard the manager and other employees looking at the 51" talking about what they did (cable swaps, etc) to try to eliminate the problem and came to the conclusion that the unit was defective and that they were going to get it replaced. Im going back to the store this weekend for another viewing so I'll see if they actually did anything.

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Old 04-03-2013, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

My VT50 was a 55", so big upgrade in size. The brightness pops are just that, not the strobes. The whole picture brightens at certain areas of the screen, more so when play is in one end. And it jumps twice, so not the strobes, I've seen those. Never did check the ECO settings, I'll check them when the update is finished. I just assumed everything would be turned off there. My settings are just baisc movie mode for now, with color setting to normal and motion stuff turned off. Haven't done much else. Contrast 95 and brightness what ever the default is. Other then the pops, great tv. Really hoping the update clears that up

Im wondering since the set that Ken saw was calibrated and had gamma, etc adjusted (as well as another member who doesnt see it) if its one of those settings that is effecting what you see......Of course jumping from a 55 to a 64 will make any "defect" more pronounced as well....Have you seen them outside of the hockey game?
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I don't buy much either, but I do rent! Gotta' give this Kuro the beef that it craves. wink.gif

Once I get the new BR player and TV I have a feeling Ill be renting more as well wink.gif
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

My VT50 was a 55", so big upgrade in size. The brightness pops are just that, not the strobes. The whole picture brightens at certain areas of the screen, more so when play is in one end. And it jumps twice, so not the strobes, I've seen those. Never did check the ECO settings, I'll check them when the update is finished. I just assumed everything would be turned off there. My settings are just baisc movie mode for now, with color setting to normal and motion stuff turned off. Haven't done much else. Contrast 95 and brightness what ever the default is. Other then the pops, great tv. Really hoping the update clears that up

This is exactly what I was seeing. frown.gif

What about the black optimizer thingy? Could that be causing it? Try shutting that off too after you do the update and check the Eco settings.

I think that was what Chad mentioned caused the fluctuations in the black during his review. Maybe its causing issues in brights too?
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

When I was at Magnolia last week, they had a 64" and a 51" running the same BestBuy demo reel. The 64" looked great while the 51" have some sort of flashing going on no matter what setting, content, or source. I overheard the manager and other employees looking at the 51" taking about what they did (cable swaps, etc) to try to eliminate the problem and came to the conclusion that the unit was defective and that they were going to get it replaced. Im going back to the store this weekend for another viewing so I'll see if they actually did anything.

If it was happening to all scenes then I would agree its defective, all comes down to setitngs etc as well.....Hopefully marks set isnt defective and its jsut a setting that needs to be changed...I would really be interested in the gamma since this is the "real" contrast adjustment, it was adjsuted to -1 on some of the calibrations......

I jsut wish a BB close to me had them (I even had 2 BBs with Magnolia within 15 minutes)had the set showing up in the system, as "in stock" I might just ahve to call them to see if they ahve them on display.....
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:08 PM
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Update somehow cancelled, had to start again. Adjusting gamma didn't fix it, and turning black optimizer off had no effect. Really hoping this update does the trick. Kind of annoying for someone that watches tons of hockey.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Update somehow cancelled, had to start again. Adjusting gamma didn't fix it, and turning black optimizer off had no effect. Really hoping this update does the trick. Kind of annoying for someone that watches tons of hockey.

Did you check the Eco settings? wink.gif try that too.....
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

Re judder: does the F8500 have 24->96hz? If so, turning that off and using plain old 24->60hz may give better result. (I don't know what Samsung calls that feature.)

If any F8500 owner here uses an HTPC, give madvr with smooth motion frame rate conversion a try. Set your card to output 59.94hz and let madvr do 24->60 conversion. I think it works really well.

Barth, that's what I did on Robert's 8500 because I saw a bit of the SOE. I turned that off and thus all motion enhancing was defeated. All I saw then was what looked to me like normal judder.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Update somehow cancelled, had to start again. Adjusting gamma didn't fix it, and turning black optimizer off had no effect. Really hoping this update does the trick. Kind of annoying for someone that watches tons of hockey.

I think the firmware update and adjusting cell light are your best bets.

Do you have a LCD TV you can use to make sure it is the TV and not source? If you have a smart phone or tablet, your cable may have an app that lets you stream TV to it.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:23 PM
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Im wondering if we are seeing the difference betweeen calibrated and non calibrated sets. If you can adjsut Gamma try the setting of -1 ..I wonder if the gamma setitngs will effect anything......Also be sure you have all of the ECO mode settings set to off as I have heard reports of the ECO mode causing havoc with sets especially with bright scenes........

I like the idea of the ECO setting Ph8te, that's a distinct possibility. I believe it's defaulted to 'on'. Kevin's calibration had it off. Those things really are bad. I remember panicking when I first got a Sony and I just couldn't get any degree of contrast out of the picture. It was the room sensor causing it.

I wish the manufacturers would default these things to 'off'.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Update somehow cancelled, had to start again. Adjusting gamma didn't fix it, and turning black optimizer off had no effect. Really hoping this update does the trick. Kind of annoying for someone that watches tons of hockey.

I really wish you had turned off the ECO setting before resuming the update. It would be great if we could isolate the issue. If the update doesn't fix it, make certain the ECO setting is turned off (and any other 'green' setting...not sure if there are more, I think the Elite has several).
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:26 PM
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That is probably judder. It's a byproduct of essentially all TV content being at 30 frames per second, while the display (essentially -- plasma refresh is a bit more complex than just 60 flashes, but I'm trying to keep it simple) refreshes 60 times per second. So single frames get flashed twice, and this creates a bit of a motion judder because of the way your eyes track motion. LCD doesn't do this because it's a sample and hold format; The previous frame stays on the screen until the new one is rendered. This method creates a different problem, the phenomenon of motion blur (moving images appear to be an almost liquid-like blur). I'm afraid that, at this time, the only regular video content that you can get at 60fps is generally sports broadcasts (and even then a cable box that insists on converting from 720p to 1080i will ruin it). You'll also see the full motion capability with a 60 fps game, however that likely means hooking up a PC as most console games are capped at 30fps and will display the same judder effect.

Motion interpolation improves judder on plasmas and it improves (but doesn't remove) motion blur on LCD, however a lot of people won't use it (myself included) because it can produce really bad artifacts in the image (it's essentially creating a number of frames based on the previous and next frames). So for many the choice is between judder and blur, and for me at least, judder is the better option (I'd rather have a bit of a double image on moving scenes that's clear than a big blur). You'll have to assess the two options and decide which you prefer, because for normal (30fps) TV there's really no perfect motion handling option out there (and there basically can't be unless you create a screen that strobes at 30fps, which would be really unpleasant).

Just curious, is this your first plasma TV? Because if it's worse than another plasma you're comparing to, that's a different matter entirely that I think everyone here would like to know about.
Generally every plasma will have some buzz. My Pioneer 5080 has a buzz, my GT50 has a buzz. Some people say it can be worse at high altitudes, but I haven't had much opportunity to bring my plasmas down from ~5000 ft to test that. It's only really a problem if it interferes with audio during normal viewing. In your case, is it loud when you're sitting directly in front of the screen in the center? I ask because this was a problem with the 2012 Samsungs; The buzz seemed to be focused right into the center and was very loud if you sat there. If the noise is only behind the screen and you don't really notice it during normal viewing, then it's probably standard plasma buzz.

Yes it's my first plasma and I'm coming from LCD. A Samsung LNT5271. The buzz seems like its directional and It isn't noticeable when watching content. The judder is annoying the hell out of me.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:28 PM
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Just got my 64" today, upgraded from Sammy PN58B860 I bought a few years back and... I'm in love! Now to burn it in like crazy to get over 100 hours before my scheduled Jeff Meier calibration later this month!!! :-)
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:49 PM
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Another shot of this beauty of a TV.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mzakos1 View Post

Yes it's my first plasma and I'm coming from LCD. A Samsung LNT5271. The buzz seems like its directional and It isn't noticeable when watching content. The judder is annoying the hell out of me.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Headlesschicken's explanation was vividly illustrated in a scene I just watched on TDK. I was actually looking for a rapid light to dark transition, but accidentally came upon the scene I mentioned previously that showed significant judder on the VT50 & 8500. For a minute I couldn't figure out why I wasn't seeing the bad judder until I realized I was watching it on the Elite, an LED. You forget how significant the difference is in this aspect of motion and I can easily see why people might prefer the blur to the judder. Put simply, I think our eyes more commonly see fast action in the real world as 'blur' as opposed to 'judder'. Let's face it, we never really see judder in the real world.

Mzakos, you actually may want to try some of the motion settings and see if you prefer a bit of the SOE in trade for some judder.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:57 PM
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Just got my 64" today, upgraded from Sammy PN58B860 I bought a few years back and... I'm in love! Now to burn it in like crazy to get over 100 hours before my scheduled Jeff Meier calibration later this month!!! :-)

Congrats Elvamir and please let us know if you see any of these brightness fluctuations. Please turn off any & all ECO settings so that the anomalies these things create won't be a factor.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

NO buzz here smile.gif unless i put my head behind the tv then it's very very very slight.... the E7000 i had buzzed but not obnoxiously so.
No buzz on ours either..........Chad even commented the Blu Ray was making more noise.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Got the tv today, turned it on, and watched hockey immediatelu and what do I see, brightness fluctuations on hockey and really noticeable. Does the update help correct this?

Give me a break with this hockey pops are you sure it's not camera flashes

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Old 04-03-2013, 09:35 PM
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No buzz on mine either.

However, with that said, as much as I like this tv, I'm not sure I can keep it. The fluctuating brightness/pops are so annoying. I watch a ton of hockey and tried to not pay attention to it, but it is very obvious. You can't ignore it. Yet when the menu is on, it doesn't happen.

Eco settings are all off, update did nothing. Sounds like a defective tv, which I'm starting to get very pissed off at. Two VT50's both defective and now the Samsung. Maybe i should just use my computer and get rid of all tvs.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:49 PM
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With that kind of track record I'm thinking its not the TVs...
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

No buzz on mine either.

However, with that said, as much as I like this tv, I'm not sure I can keep it. The fluctuating brightness/pops are so annoying. I watch a ton of hockey and tried to not pay attention to it, but it is very obvious. You can't ignore it. Yet when the menu is on, it doesn't happen.

Eco settings are all off, update did nothing. Sounds like a defective tv, which I'm starting to get very pissed off at. Two VT50's both defective and now the Samsung. Maybe i should just use my computer and get rid of all tvs.

Sounds like your cursed when you spend this much for a TV you have to be happy and not have buyers regret that what sucks and makes you question everything good luck man

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Old 04-03-2013, 10:00 PM
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It's not the camera flashes, I know what those are like. This is the camera pans to one end of the ice, so you get part of the crowd in the picture, picture brightens 3 or 4 times. As the camera goes back to center ice, picture dims, gets to the other end brightens again. Not the camera flashers. If the menu is up, doesn't do it at all. It's the tv, not the camera flashes.

Track record, what track recrod. Flashing constant green pixel is not me, lines on the screen, not me, brightness pops, not me.

Go to youtube and look up the brightness pops, thats exactly what I'm seeing.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

It's not the camera flashes, I know what those are like. This is the camera pans to one end of the ice, so you get part of the crowd in the picture, picture brightens 3 or 4 times. As the camera goes back to center ice, picture dims, gets to the other end brightens again. Not the camera flashers. If the menu is up, doesn't do it at all. It's the tv, not the camera flashes.

Track record, what track recrod. Flashing constant green pixel is not me, lines on the screen, not me, brightness pops, not me.

Go to youtube and look up the brightness pops, thats exactly what I'm seeing.

The YouTube stuff was the PNxxD8000 that was all the chatter back in 2011, I have a C7000 it doesn't do it I also have a PN60E8000 and it doesn't do it either so if you see these pops then I would contact Samsung or just return it for a new TV.

My main setup PN60E8000 / Directv genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray Onkyo TX-NR 1030 7.2.4 /Onkyo M-5010 Amplifier for top middle Bic Acoustech speakers,MICCA M-8S FH/TM on wall / in ceiling speakers 2 Bic F12 subs
MY 10' X 15' DEN PN51F5500 / Directv Genie / Panasonic 3D blu-ray / Onkyo TX-NR 737 5.2.2 Atmos Bose 161 top front on Ceiling Speakers
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

It's not the camera flashes, I know what those are like. This is the camera pans to one end of the ice, so you get part of the crowd in the picture, picture brightens 3 or 4 times. As the camera goes back to center ice, picture dims, gets to the other end brightens again. Not the camera flashers. If the menu is up, doesn't do it at all. It's the tv, not the camera flashes.

Track record, what track recrod. Flashing constant green pixel is not me, lines on the screen, not me, brightness pops, not me.

Go to youtube and look up the brightness pops, thats exactly what I'm seeing.

Going to a larger TV will also make any anomaly stick out that you might have not seen before. You may be more sensitive to the fluctuations due to ABL as well. As a test you may want to go to your dealer and see if you can replicate what you are seeing on the display unit. The only true way to avoid ABL is to move to LCD however.
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