Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 343 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk]
SeLfMaDe111985's Avatar SeLfMaDe111985 04:28 PM 02-10-2014
I may also be going from a VT60 to a F8500
Just do to the fact that everyone is going crazy about the blacks on both sets but I'm just not seeing that inky feel on my vt60 which is a possible defect. I feel most TVs can reach the blacks I'm seeing on the VT60 and if it's suppose to be better in black level than the VT50 then I definitely wouldn't like a VT50 which I almost purchased about 8 months ago. So with that said I'm hoping that if most are saying the F8500 is close to the ZT60 and so close that it's indistinguishable by the human eye and only measurements and approve other wise then I'm liking the sounds of the F8500. I see most of the issues have been fixed with FW like floating blacks and lag. It's either a F8500 since Amazon no longer has any for trade or grab a 60ZT60 for 2999$ from Pauls. I'm going nuts here

vinnie97's Avatar vinnie97 04:33 PM 02-10-2014
Do you use bias lighting? If so, you will be hard pressed to see if a difference. On the other hand, if you watch at night in total darkness, low APL scenes (i.e. portrayals of space) will be superior on the ZT60. That mattered the most to me, so the ZT was the natural choice. That being said, if the VT60 isn't dark enough to you, neither the F8500 nor the ZT60 will satisfy you (I highly doubt your VT60 is defective).
Jabber5's Avatar Jabber5 06:46 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

Yes, the advantage of using the HDMI 3 ARC connection instead of the optical cable is that you can control the soundbar volume from the TV remote. That had some attraction, because before getting the Samsung F8500, we were drowning in remotes (Samsung cable box, Samsung soundbar, TV remote, sometimes Blu-Ray remote or DVR and Comcast DTA ). Getting everything under the control of one remote was attactive. Using the "Universal Remote" feature with the IR blaster, the TV can even control the Comcast DTA that feeds our DVD-burning DVR.

With the HDMI connection and Anynet+, the TV does turn the soundbar on and off.

Incidentally, taking the Samsung cable box off of the HDMI pass-through on the soundbar and giving it it's own HDMI input on the TV enabled the TV to completely control the cable box. I guess that HDMI "pass through" does not include much "pass back". What "pass back" existed did enable the TV to turn the cable box off and on, but not to change channels, and the HDMI handshake from the cable box to the soundbar was shaky when they powered on at the same time, requiring one or the other to be power cycled again. Just works right when they are on different inputs.

As far as MRT, when we finally got the TV fired up, my wife was in no mood to watch me go into the service menu (she had helped me wall-mount the 64" panel), so I let her finish her recorded "Kitten Bowl" and then watch an HGTV program. Then I checked the MRT, and it said 2 hours, from which I inferred that the MRT was zero hours when the TV was delivered.

Thank you for checking the MRT and confirms as I suspected. The PCR Mgr put me on the phone will supposedly the local Samsung rep who insisted that ALL Plasmas, Samsung and Pannys are tested 100+ hours before leaving the factory floor. With 84 hours, two flickering pixels, and noticable buzz, I will be exchanging my set tomorrow - so hats off to PCR for that. I will however need to keep the delivery guys here until I do a thorough look over on the new one before I take the other off the wall. My only concern is tomorrow is supposed to be 26 degrees out and I have not turned on sets until it reached room temperature. I won't have much of a choice though. How much of a risk is this in creating condensation on the boards and damaging them?

I've also noticed that the voice command prompt will come up spontaneously without having pressed the button on the remote. Has anyone experienced that? I'm assuming this is a glitch of some sort.

One other question regarding the HDMI ARC on the soundbar? Does it automatically power on/off with the TV like the optical cable or just allow the control of volume from the TV remote?
Jabber5's Avatar Jabber5 06:58 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

I may also be going from a VT60 to a F8500
Just do to the fact that everyone is going crazy about the blacks on both sets but I'm just not seeing that inky feel on my vt60 which is a possible defect. I feel most TVs can reach the blacks I'm seeing on the VT60 and if it's suppose to be better in black level than the VT50 then I definitely wouldn't like a VT50 which I almost purchased about 8 months ago. So with that said I'm hoping that if most are saying the F8500 is close to the ZT60 and so close that it's indistinguishable by the human eye and only measurements and approve other wise then I'm liking the sounds of the F8500. I see most of the issues have been fixed with FW like floating blacks and lag. It's either a F8500 since Amazon no longer has any for trade or grab a 60ZT60 for 2999$ from Pauls. I'm going nuts here

As I said, I went with the VT60 first before it died and replaced it with the F8500. Without having them side-by-side I can only tell you this in terms of comparison:

1) Watching Blu-rays and HD Netflix, the sets are comparable, both amazing pictures. Rich, smooth film like scenes - saturated colors. If there is any reduction in black level on the Sammy I could never tell without having them side-by-side. Note, though I have the TV set up in a living room with two windows on the opposite wall, so in retrospect I think the F8500 has turned out to be better choice for me, given the higher light output. If it were in a Man Cave - who knows.

2) Broadcast HD television is noticeably better (to me) on the Sammy. Clearer, brighter picture.

3) The F8500's filter is noticeably darker than the VT60's - great when looking head on, but not so great when close up and looking down on the TV (hardly a position though that I find myself in watching TV).

3) The Samsung is lighter and has a more discrete looking bezel/casing (to me) compared to the VT60's single panel of glass.

4) The Smart Functions/technology - there's really no comparison here (again to me). Samsung makes Panasonic's Smart functions look like an afterthought.

Hope that helps in making your decision.
WVZR1's Avatar WVZR1 07:07 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabber5 View Post

Thank you for checking the MRT and confirms as I suspected. The PCR Mgr put me on the phone will supposedly the local Samsung rep who insisted that ALL Plasmas, Samsung and Pannys are tested 100+ hours before leaving the factory floor. With 84 hours, two flickering pixels, and noticable buzz, I will be exchanging my set tomorrow - so hats off to PCR for that. I will however need to keep the delivery guys here until I do a thorough look over on the new one before I take the other off the wall. My only concern is tomorrow is supposed to be 26 degrees out and I have not turned on sets until it reached room temperature. I won't have much of a choice though. How much of a risk is this in creating condensation on the boards and damaging them?

One other question regarding the HDMI ARC on the soundbar? Does it automatically power on/off with the TV like the optical cable or just allow the control of volume from the TV remote?

Have the "replacement" powered on before it leaves the store with you there. Do your inspections there and when it's delivered you'll only need to confirm the serial number, look over once again for damage and then let it acclimate before the power up at your home. The latches in the Samsung boxes are constructed very well and will allow a good repack for the delivery. You won't have to actually unbox it completely to check what you want checked. They should have remotes around the store that will work or carry the one that you have now with you.

That I believe should make the delivery and exchange quite "painless"!!
Jabber5's Avatar Jabber5 07:13 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVZR1 View Post

Have the "replacement" powered on before it leaves the store with you there. Do your inspections there and when it's delivered you'll only need to confirm the serial number, look over once again for damage and then let it acclimate before the power up at your home. The latches in the Samsung boxes are constructed very well and will allow a good repack for the delivery. You won't have to actually unbox it completely to check what you want checked. They should have remotes around the store that will work or carry the one that you have now with you.

That I believe should make the delivery and exchange quite "painless"!!

Sound advice. Unfortunately, they don't carry the F8500 in the store's backroom. The large TVs like this come from a central warehouse, so I won't have the luxury of testing before it gets on the truck.
wxman's Avatar wxman 07:21 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabber5 View Post

Thank you for checking the MRT and confirms as I suspected. The PCR Mgr put me on the phone will supposedly the local Samsung rep who insisted that ALL Plasmas, Samsung and Pannys are tested 100+ hours before leaving the factory floor. With 84 hours, two flickering pixels, and noticable buzz, I will be exchanging my set tomorrow - so hats off to PCR for that. I will however need to keep the delivery guys here until I do a thorough look over on the new one before I take the other off the wall. My only concern is tomorrow is supposed to be 26 degrees out and I have not turned on sets until it reached room temperature. I won't have much of a choice though. How much of a risk is this in creating condensation on the boards and damaging them?

I've also noticed that the voice command prompt will come up spontaneously without having pressed the button on the remote. Has anyone experienced that? I'm assuming this is a glitch of some sort.

One other question regarding the HDMI ARC on the soundbar? Does it automatically power on/off with the TV like the optical cable or just allow the control of volume from the TV remote?

My tv had zero hours on it. Now they very well may have tested for 100 hours, but that did not show up on my tv.
JimP 08:14 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

I may also be going from a VT60 to a F8500
Just do to the fact that everyone is going crazy about the blacks on both sets but I'm just not seeing that inky feel on my vt60 which is a possible defect. I feel most TVs can reach the blacks I'm seeing on the VT60 and if it's suppose to be better in black level than the VT50 then I definitely wouldn't like a VT50 which I almost purchased about 8 months ago. So with that said I'm hoping that if most are saying the F8500 is close to the ZT60 and so close that it's indistinguishable by the human eye and only measurements and approve other wise then I'm liking the sounds of the F8500. I see most of the issues have been fixed with FW like floating blacks and lag. It's either a F8500 since Amazon no longer has any for trade or grab a 60ZT60 for 2999$ from Pauls. I'm going nuts here

If you aren't getting inky blacks on your VT60, then you probably have brightness or some other setting set wrong.

I have both the 64F8500 and the 65VT50. I bought the 64F8500 primarily for it's brighter output for my living room as the 65VT50 wasn't quite bright enough.

Regarding the black levels.....I have found that the F8500 plays a little trick where you don't get the .002 ftl black levels unless the entire screen is almost black. If you raise the surround of a windows patter to 18% brightness, your black level in the window pattern goes up to .008 ftl. With the VT50, even though a full black screen would measure .003 ft lamberts, if you add the 18% surround to the windows pattern, your window stays at .003 ft lamberts. In other words, your blacks on the F8500 are slightly lighter when playing content than the VT50's. When rolling credits at the end of a movie, the F8500 is technically a little darker.

Part of this comes back to how Black Optomizer is reducing the screen frequency from 60 to 30 in order to make it darker during the really dark scenes. It also introduces slight dithering on those dark scenes. The VT50 does show dithering for most content...not just dark scenes. Speculating a little here, Samsung went with the higher frequency for a cleaner image and only drops to 30 in scenes where elevated blacks would be detected. All in all, I prefer the F8500.

By the way, the Olympics look fantastic on the F8500. Those whites during the down hill combined skiing really do look white.
fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt 08:32 PM 02-10-2014
who is saying the fw has fixed input lag? or floating blacks(assuming this is still the BO doing it's things, so it won't ever get 'fixed')

I'm running 1118, have done all the updates pretty much since I bought it in april, and nothing has changed the input lag, it's still very bad, unless you use PC or game mode, in which case it's about average. And the floating blacks, again, have not changed at all for me. With BO on, you can detect a deeper black on dark scenes if you look for it. but that's how it works, it's not so much a defect as it is a feature. I'd rather have dark blacks only when the image is dark than never have deep blacks at all. what'd be even better is if panny had used a similar thing and could have had deep blacks that get even darker
KOF's Avatar KOF 08:33 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

If you aren't getting inky blacks on your VT60, then you probably have brightness or some other setting set wrong.

I have both the 64F8500 and the 65VT50. I bought the 64F8500 primarily for it's brighter output for my living room as the 65VT50 wasn't quite bright enough.

Regarding the black levels.....I have found that the F8500 plays a little trick where you don't get the .002 ftl black levels unless the entire screen is almost black. If you raise the surround of a windows patter to 18% brightness, your black level in the window pattern goes up to .008 ftl. With the VT50, even though a full black screen would measure .003 ft lamberts, if you add the 18% surround to the windows pattern, your window stays at .003 ft lamberts. In other words, your blacks on the F8500 are slightly lighter when playing content than the VT50's. When rolling credits at the end of a movie, the F8500 is technically a little darker.

Part of this comes back to how Black Optomizer is reducing the screen frequency from 60 to 30 in order to make it darker during the really dark scenes. It also introduces slight dithering on those dark scenes. The VT50 does show dithering for most content...not just dark scenes. Speculating a little here, Samsung went with the higher frequency for a cleaner image and only drops to 30 in scenes where elevated blacks would be detected. All in all, I prefer the F8500.

By the way, the Olympics look fantastic on the F8500. Those whites during the down hill combined skiing really do look white.

Ah so that explains the floating black. Do you think it can be addressed by firmware then? Speaking of Panasonic plasmas, my S60 shows interlacing effect when viewed very close. Is this the same 30hz frenquency you mention? When I was a non-Panasonic plasma owner, the S60 was the dirtiest in my eyes when it came to dithering, but when I actually took it home, it wasn't as bad as I've noticed it in store under pitch dark environment.
KOF's Avatar KOF 08:35 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

who is saying the fw has fixed input lag? or floating blacks(assuming this is still the BO doing it's things, so it won't ever get 'fixed')

I'm running 1118, have done all the updates pretty much since I bought it in april, and nothing has changed the input lag, it's still very bad, unless you use PC or game mode, in which case it's about average. And the floating blacks, again, have not changed at all for me. With BO on, you can detect a deeper black on dark scenes if you look for it. but that's how it works, it's not so much a defect as it is a feature. I'd rather have dark blacks only when the image is dark than never have deep blacks at all. what'd be even better is if panny had used a similar thing and could have had deep blacks that get even darker

Input lag is still terrible? That's not a music to my ears. frown.gif I really hope Samsung can work some magic there. Does the double game mode give better input lag than PC mode?
fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt 08:36 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Ah so that explains the floating black. Do you think it can be addressed by firmware then? Speaking of Panasonic plasmas, my S60 shows interlacing effect when viewed very close. Is this the same 30hz frenquency you mention? When I was a non-Panasonic plasma owner, the S60 was the dirtiest in my eyes when it came to dithering, but when I actually took it home, it wasn't as bad as I've noticed it in store under pitch dark environment.

if you want to get rid of floating blacks, turn black optimizer off.

just be warned, it won't keep blacks dark all the time, it'll keep them high all the time.
I still consider the BO to be a feature worth turning on, but if you find the change distracting, turning it off might be a better option
fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt 08:41 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Input lag is still terrible? That's not a music to my ears. frown.gif I really hope Samsung can work some magic there. Does the double game mode give better input lag than PC mode?

it's still extremely noticeable when in a 'normal' viewing mode. I do not think that will change, processing causes lag, no two ways around it.

I'm currently using the game/game mode setting as it provides more picture adjustment options, and imo a better image overall(actually not much worse than my movie mode settings). that being said, I have noticed 'screen tearing' while playing games recently, and the only thing I've changed was going from PC mode to game/game. I have not had a chance to try going back to PC to see if it fixes that issue, so I have no idea if they are actually related yet.

the PC mode does still provide a good image. it's a little softer, and I found turning the sharpness up to around 10 or so helped with that. otherwise, I found it fairly good, good enough for playing games imo.

the input lag using either pc or game/game seems about the same(not measured, just experienced) and both are acceptable for me. I'm not real sensitive to input lag while gaming, but I can notice it using the cursor on my htpc. in movie mode, it feels really sluggish, and if I try to go quickly I usually overshoot what I'm trying to click on. in pc or game/game mode it feels natural
KOF's Avatar KOF 08:43 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

if you want to get rid of floating blacks, turn black optimizer off.

just be warned, it won't keep blacks dark all the time, it'll keep them high all the time.
I still consider the BO to be a feature worth turning on, but if you find the change distracting, turning it off might be a better option

Haha, that would be akin to saying "If you don't want ABL, keep it dark." tongue.gif The BO is practically what sets the F8500 apart from the E8000. If the BO can operate under 30hz for most of low ABL scenes instead of just 18fL, that would be a win-win for everybody. I mean, here I am, an owner of the dirtiest plasma called the S60 and I'm fine with dithering and 48hz flickers.
KOF's Avatar KOF 08:46 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

it's still extremely noticeable when in a 'normal' viewing mode. I do not think that will change, processing causes lag, no two ways around it.

I'm currently using the game/game mode setting as it provides more picture adjustment options, and imo a better image overall(actually not much worse than my movie mode settings). that being said, I have noticed 'screen tearing' while playing games recently, and the only thing I've changed was going from PC mode to game/game. I have not had a chance to try going back to PC to see if it fixes that issue, so I have no idea if they are actually related yet.

the PC mode does still provide a good image. it's a little softer, and I found turning the sharpness up to around 10 or so helped with that. otherwise, I found it fairly good, good enough for playing games imo.

the input lag using either pc or game/game seems about the same(not measured, just experienced) and both are acceptable for me. I'm not real sensitive to input lag while gaming, but I can notice it using the cursor on my htpc. in movie mode, it feels really sluggish, and if I try to go quickly I usually overshoot what I'm trying to click on. in pc or game/game mode it feels natural

I see. I will have to avoid PC gaming as much as possible on the F8500/H7000 then. Even on my S60, it puts a serious damper on fluid gameplay I have to turn off V-sync and FXAA. I will gladly trade off more tearing for less input lag.
fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt 08:48 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Haha, that would be akin to saying "If you don't want ABL, keep it dark." tongue.gif The BO is practically what sets the F8500 apart from the E8000. If the BO can operate under 30hz for most of low ABL scenes instead of just 18fL, that would be a win-win for everybody. I mean, here I am, an owner of the dirtiest plasma called the S60 and I'm fine with dithering and 48hz flickers.

I know exactly what you mean. truth is, I'd like to see them add a BO setting that allows you to keep it 'dark' all the time. I have my cell light set to 50%, brightness is not something I'm needing more of.

but I don't fully understand exactly what BO does, so there may be other benefits to that 'brighter' setting. maybe what they should be doing is adding more levels, so it's not as sudden of a jump? or maybe just a different tipping point between the two. I've tried the different BO settings, and dark room seems to stay dark the most, but i would like more
fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt 08:52 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

I see. I will have to avoid PC gaming as much as possible on the F8500/H7000 then. Even on my S60, it puts a serious damper on fluid gameplay I have to turn off V-sync and FXAA. I will gladly trade off more tearing for less input lag.

i should note, i never once experienced screen tearing when using it in pc mode. i actually thought it was my 360 not keeping up with the newer games at first, but then read some other owners complaining of it. eventually i made the link between screen tearing appearing, and me switching out of PC mode into Game mode. I've just been too busy since to play any games for long enough to really test this out.

i figure i need to play a game and produce screen tearing, switch it to pc mode, play long enough to ensure i should have seen screen tearing if it were to happen, then go back to game mode and produce screen tearing again. if that happens, i'll know i should leave it in PC mode and deal with the limited adjustments.
wxman's Avatar wxman 08:52 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

By the way, the Olympics look fantastic on the F8500. Those whites during the down hill combined skiing really do look white.

I agree. By far, the F8500 produces the best whites of any plasma. Better than the Kuros, better than the Panasonics. So although the F8500 can't match their blacks, neither of those 2 can match the F8500 whites.
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar Cleveland Plasma 09:01 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

I may also be going from a VT60 to a F8500
Just do to the fact that everyone is going crazy about the blacks on both sets but I'm just not seeing that inky feel on my vt60 which is a possible defect.
Downsize to the LG 55EA9800 OLED, black levels are 5 times darker than a Kuro, and 25 times brighter ! Beyond inky blacks........
KOF's Avatar KOF 09:08 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

I agree. By far, the F8500 produces the best whites of any plasma. Better than the Kuros, better than the Panasonics. So although the F8500 can't match their blacks, neither of those 2 can match the F8500 whites.

It would be great to have both VT60 and the F8500. The VT60 can take care of low ABL materials while the F8500 can take care of high ABL materials. Too bad both are not quite a 'gamer''s display input lag wise. Hope Panny can also work magic to reduce input lag on their plasmas. I keep hearing rumors of the ST60 improving in input lag, but there are no hard numbers that I know of.
p5browne's Avatar p5browne 10:00 PM 02-10-2014
For Gamers it's easy - play your games on a proper PC Monitor, and leave the F8500 for Video Viewing!
KOF's Avatar KOF 10:50 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

For Gamers it's easy - play your games on a proper PC Monitor, and leave the F8500 for Video Viewing!

Yeah right. And deal with dinky sizes, terrible color/black/uniformity? And since when have "console" gamers generally played on "PC" monitors? They've been using TVs for over 4 decades. Sony doesn't seem to have problems encouraging playing Playstation games on their LCD TVs. In fact, they encourage it by reducing input lag.

I play my games on my 65 inch Panasonic plasma and I love it! tongue.gif
shadowspawn's Avatar shadowspawn 11:19 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabber5 View Post

Thank you for checking the MRT and confirms as I suspected. The PCR Mgr put me on the phone will supposedly the local Samsung rep who insisted that ALL Plasmas, Samsung and Pannys are tested 100+ hours before leaving the factory floor. With 84 hours, two flickering pixels, and noticable buzz, I will be exchanging my set tomorrow - so hats off to PCR for that. I will however need to keep the delivery guys here until I do a thorough look over on the new one before I take the other off the wall. My only concern is tomorrow is supposed to be 26 degrees out and I have not turned on sets until it reached room temperature. I won't have much of a choice though. How much of a risk is this in creating condensation on the boards and damaging them?

I've also noticed that the voice command prompt will come up spontaneously without having pressed the button on the remote. Has anyone experienced that? I'm assuming this is a glitch of some sort.

One other question regarding the HDMI ARC on the soundbar? Does it automatically power on/off with the TV like the optical cable or just allow the control of volume from the TV remote?

My own experience, and what I have read here, suggests not accepting an F8500 that has more than a really small MRT number. My MRT was zero, or close to zero.

The Samsung soundbar, connected via HDMI, does exactly what one would hope. Off / On with the TV, as well as volume control.

It's really nice, One Remote to Rule them All (including the Samsung cable box, which is another topic entirely().
JimP 11:21 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Ah so that explains the floating black. Do you think it can be addressed by firmware then? Speaking of Panasonic plasmas, my S60 shows interlacing effect when viewed very close. Is this the same 30hz frenquency you mention? When I was a non-Panasonic plasma owner, the S60 was the dirtiest in my eyes when it came to dithering, but when I actually took it home, it wasn't as bad as I've noticed it in store under pitch dark environment.

Hmmmmm.....one thing I didn't check is how black level changes as the surround in an APL pattern changes.

I clearly know about how black optimizer kicks in with very dark scenes and it makes the blacks darker by reducing the frequency. That's a given. But it would be worth while to take a closer look at black level changes with APL changes.

Let me get back to you on that in a few days when I've had a chance to check it out.

As to firmware updates to change how this feature works....I wouldn't think it's likely because if you lowered the frequency to make the blacks blacker all the time, it would seem that bright scenes would also be darkened....and that's something that most of us don't want. Plus...it may introduce dithering on those brighter scenes.
JimP 11:30 PM 02-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I know exactly what you mean. truth is, I'd like to see them add a BO setting that allows you to keep it 'dark' all the time. I have my cell light set to 50%, brightness is not something I'm needing more of.

but I don't fully understand exactly what BO does, so there may be other benefits to that 'brighter' setting. maybe what they should be doing is adding more levels, so it's not as sudden of a jump? or maybe just a different tipping point between the two. I've tried the different BO settings, and dark room seems to stay dark the most, but i would like more


I'm not so sure that what you're seeing isn't the ABL (automatic brightness limiter) in the F8500.

To be sure that we're talking about the same thing... isn't the entire picture dimming slightly? It's not just a change in the brightness of blacks.
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 06:12 AM 02-11-2014
The F8500s ABL function is far superior to the Panasonic IMO. This helps give much better whites as JimP has stated and helps tremendously for material such as the Winter Olympics. I've just watched the VT and the F8500 side-by-side both 37fL professionally calibrated and the difference in pure white snow scenes is massive. +1 for Sammy.
JimP 06:34 AM 02-11-2014
That's the thing about ABL. We've always had it with plasma displays but never really noticed it until Panasonic brought it to the extreme. With the F8500, its there but to a lot less degree and very likely not be noticed.
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 06:47 AM 02-11-2014
^ We threw a meter on a full screen paused snow scene (split HDMI) and measured several times and took the average and the Panasonic dropped +/-7fL compared to the Samsung. It's nuts.
White snow took on a grey/dirty look.

*I was told both TVs were calibrated using APL patterns to achieve the same luminance.
KOF's Avatar KOF 06:49 AM 02-11-2014
Ironic considering the Fujitsu EDTV plasma I've seen back in the day was brighter than a lot of LCDs.
turnne1's Avatar turnne1 06:51 AM 02-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

If they were priced evenly today (the F8500 and the ZT60), I'd go with the latter again in a heartbeat. They are very close in many respects, and someone above mentioned the shootout but failed to disclose that the pros preferred the ZT. The parameters that matter to me the most are those that most predominately affect cinematic viewing in a darkened environment. The current elevated price of the Panasonics is of course due to the law of supply and demand.
If you have a completely darkened environment...I agree with you

With ANY light in the room..it completely changes the game to Samsung...hence the reason, maybe, it won the shootout as people were considering realistic environments for most people

On another note...IMO, Samsung did a great marketing move in making a plasma panel bright enough to appeal to some LED buyers

Those people that complain that plasmas are simply not bright enough, cant be used in lighted areas, or have "dirty" whites...And coincidentally , represent 85% of the total HDTV buying market



Warren
Tags: Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv
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