Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 373 - AVS Forum
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post #11161 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 07:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anakinskye View Post

I have CS on. Are you familiar with Life of Pi?

I don't have that movie. 3D discs that I do have don't exhibit the problem any more when CS is enabled. They used to no matter what CS was set to.
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post #11162 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskanAVGuy View Post

Yeah brother Dougofthenorth,

But don't forget Samsung has already made good on their promise with their First EVO KIT released already,
so at least were starting off with a good track record for the F8500, and it's looking really good for us now
that they have been kept it into Production thru the 2014 season. Thou Plasma tech is looking gloom so this
might be a short lived victory.

Hopefully H.265 will hold us over for a few years while the 4K & UHD battles begin....ahhh it's always something.

Would be nice to get feedback from 1st Evo kit owners to see what it did for their sets...

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post #11163 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

You know, most people don't respond to my posts about this subject matter when I make them (not referring to you specifically), but I'll try and give it one more go-around:

With CS enabled, there aren't any brightness pops whatsoever. I personally don't like watching 3D with CS enabled. There is a nauseating flicker in the motion for me that I just can't bear. I love CS on with 2D, but that's a different story.

So I'm assuming you're talking about CS being disabled. The thing is, we can call this issue whatever we want... but it's not coming from the television itself. These "brightness pops" (which I would call "darkness pops" since the image actually appears darker in these instances) are coming from your glasses. That's right, your glasses. Remove them, and replay that exact scenario. You won't see a hint of a difference coming from your TV.

Now, am I saying that the glasses are at fault? Of course not. I've tried three different Samsung models of glasses, and they all do the exact same things at the exact same times. So, obviously it's some sort of thing with the TV communicating with the active shutter thing to "slow your shutter speed," or whatever the hell it's doing. That's what Samsung needs to fix, but I just want to make sure that everybody here understands it is not the television that is fluctuating brightness. It is just the glasses that are getting dimmer... a lot dimmer, I do suppose.

I wonder if their real glasses do that? not the 10 cent a piece cost of the 4 pairs they included with the set ?

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post #11164 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 09:58 AM
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It appears Samsung is more interested currently, in getting the Samsung 9000 people their Evolution Kits!
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post #11165 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

I wonder if their real glasses do that? not the 10 cent a piece cost of the 4 pairs they included with the set ?

The three glasses models I own are:

- The "dimers" that came with the TV
- SSG-2100AB
- SSG-3570CR

All of them caused the problem. It's the way of the TV telling them to change their shutter action, in whichever way it tells it to. But again, take off the glasses, and you won't see the effect on the television at all. A better way to know it's happening is to just not be near the TV and look at something else (even if it's another TV). It will still happen, and you'll be wondering why your other TV is now getting the same issues haha.

And anakinskye, I have not ever seen the issue occur with CS enabled. Then again, I have not ever seen Life of Pi, much less its 3D Blu-ray. I don't know what problem you're facing then, because the one I'm referring to is actually inherent to CS being disabled.
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post #11166 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Ignoring the high end, sure, LCD won. By your definition, Samsung has already "figured it out" (no OLED announcements for 2014). I hope LG never "figures it out" and proves the naysayers wrong by carving out a high-end niche in the near-term. I agree that 4K is here to stay.

actually "figured it out" to me means they make a profit
the rest is a moot point if that is not the case

Since both Samsung and LG have continually been profitable in their Tv business...while many others have not
I would say someone in their camp knows what the public will buy
The "high end" ,per se, wont exist if they cant make a profit on the products that exist in that realm

I think the day and age of "halo" products that dont pull their own profitability weight, individually, is gone


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post #11167 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 11:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

...All of them caused the problem. It's the way of the TV telling them to change their shutter action...

I'm actually of the belief that it's the TV messing up a frame for the wrong eye.- The glasses are just switching on and off, left and right in a sequential manner as instructed. I don't think the command from the TV is able to turn the shutters on and off independently, but rather the TV just fires out a sync pattern that the glasses sync up to and that's your lot.


2c of course.
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post #11168 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 11:24 AM
 
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More laterally it could be when the glasses lose the sync stream (or the stream screws up due to a panel glitch) for a frame or two and both shutters stay open together (i.e. the glasses stop working for a tickle).
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post #11169 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 01:16 PM
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Quick question... Is there any difference between the 2014 Model and the 2013 model?  PN64F8500AF and PN64F8500FXA?

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post #11170 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billabong12789 View Post

Quick question... Is there any difference between the 2014 Model and the 2013 model?  PN64F8500AF and PN64F8500FXA?

later in the year you may get the New 2014 Evolution Kit.

they are the Same TV.
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post #11171 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 06:15 PM
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So hey dudes, I'm in the market for one of these sets. I'm moving into my first house in a couple months, and want to build myself a proper media room. Will be using the TV for all manner of things, sitcoms, prime-time dramas, blu-rays, and a ton of video games. I wanna get something big, beautiful, and calibrated. I was originally gonna get a Panasonic ZT but WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THERE so the internet has managed to convince me that the F8500 is basically the only remaining option if you want something truly excellent in all regards.

But I'm worried about gaming. It looks like the input lag can be massaged to a pretty low level on this set by renaming the inputs to PC, as noted a few pages back. But what's this I hear about losing image options by doing so? My whole goal here is to get a professionally calibrated set, and if I have to swap to no-calibration mode to play video games, the TV is a complete non-starter for me.

So the question is: can the PC mode be ISF calibrated? Can I use that as my main mode for everything? Will I still have access to the 24p modes for blu rays?

If I CAN'T use those picture settings and modes in the PC mode, the question becomes: will I actually be okay with the input lag in the standard "game" mode? (Assuming game mode still retains access to all those picture options.) I've got a TC-P50V10 right now, and I'm perfectly happy with its gaming performance on "custom" mode. I don't know what it's actual lag response is, though, I haven't been able to find that on the Internet anywhere. If it's comparable to 60 or whatever the Samsung game mode is, that might end up working out fine. Anyone able to help me figure out that number?
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post #11172 of 12369 Old 03-24-2014, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

I will never understand the pissing match between owners of these TV's. I'm still breaking in my freshly delivered F8500 (thanks Chris!). I bought one because Panny is done. That said, given this quote "but for critical viewing in a dimly-lit environment, the Panasonic ZT65/ZT60 is just a hair’s breadth better", unless I could have gotten one of those for a substantially better deal than the one I got, I still would probably have gotten the F8500. I will never watch something for the critical viewing of it, and I am rarely if ever, in a dimly lit room.
They sure are close enough to call a tie.......
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post #11173 of 12369 Old 03-25-2014, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tathanen View Post

But I'm worried about gaming. It looks like the input lag can be massaged to a pretty low level on this set by renaming the inputs to PC, as noted a few pages back. But what's this I hear about losing image options by doing so? My whole goal here is to get a professionally calibrated set, and if I have to swap to no-calibration mode to play video games, the TV is a complete non-starter for me.

So the question is: can the PC mode be ISF calibrated? Can I use that as my main mode for everything? Will I still have access to the 24p modes for blu rays?

If I CAN'T use those picture settings and modes in the PC mode, the question becomes: will I actually be okay with the input lag in the standard "game" mode? (Assuming game mode still retains access to all those picture options.) I've got a TC-P50V10 right now, and I'm perfectly happy with its gaming performance on "custom" mode. I don't know what it's actual lag response is, though, I haven't been able to find that on the Internet anywhere. If it's comparable to 60 or whatever the Samsung game mode is, that might end up working out fine. Anyone able to help me figure out that number?

First of all there are 2 huge threads on this TV the DISCUSSION thread & the OWNERS thread. With very detailed explanations.
Lag settings have been accepted to be roughly ~35ms with renaming tricks, not over 60ms either
- some say FW updates have changed that for the better - no apparent posted disputes to that.
Perhaps the 2014 sets & FW updates will help more - or the Evo Kits may also better the issue.

You can get all kinds of goodies by quickly scanning through them
- just cut & paste as you come across relevant posts & detailed Game settings , into a word type document for detailed reading info later on.

The F8500 allows for several settings to be all saved for all modes, or different settings saved mode by mode.
Due to the inherent nature of how game video is coded vs the way media (TV, movies etc) are coded they present/express the picture differently.
,Therefore no single ISF calibration will work perfect for the 2 different modes. But if the movie mode is used for all, it will/should give a better picture for all modes.
The good news is that, some ISF calibrators include different/individual modes, in what they consider "properly" calibrating a set.

Then there are the required setting changes to properly do for XBOXx & PSx menus to get the best out of the mix.

Also, most sets have evolved immensely since 2009 ones.
The F8500 out of the box, with a few minor DIY setting tweaks is amazing on its own!
It is not fair to the TC-P50V10 to compare it to this set. Especially due to that set's documented PQ decrease after 1,500 hrs http://www.cnet.com/news/tests-point-to-extent-of-loss-in-panasonic-plasma-black-level-performance/

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post #11174 of 12369 Old 03-25-2014, 09:38 AM
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2 Quick questions...

1. I just got the Disney WOW disc and started calibrating. On the brightness section, if I turn up the brightness high enough to make the "whiter than white" stars disappear, then I loose all my blacks. Brightness ends up being around 75, ouch! Is it not necessary to completely whiten those stars out?


2. This is my first plasma tv. When I watch movies, the black bars on top and bottom of the screen have crazy little colored dots flying around like digital noise. They disappear when I get 3-4 feet away from the set, but is this normal?

Thanks!
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post #11175 of 12369 Old 03-25-2014, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volktronic View Post

2 Quick questions...

1. I just got the Disney WOW disc and started calibrating. On the brightness section, if I turn up the brightness high enough to make the "whiter than white" stars disappear, then I loose all my blacks. Brightness ends up being around 75, ouch! Is it not necessary to completely whiten those stars out?


2. This is my first plasma tv. When I watch movies, the black bars on top and bottom of the screen have crazy little colored dots flying around like digital noise. They disappear when I get 3-4 feet away from the set, but is this normal?

Thanks!

Check the output resolution on the player (to 1080p) & the ratio setting 16:9 fill screen or whatever

Then check the TVs settings for 16:9 or Fill Screen toggle back & forth between then see what's up

If you go through an AVR then to TV make sure AVR's HDMI menu settings are not affecting the signal

Make sure you have a good HDMI cable & it's version is 1.3a or above (higher the better)

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post #11176 of 12369 Old 03-25-2014, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

First of all there are 2 huge threads on this TV the DISCUSSION thread & the OWNERS thread. With very detailed explanations.
Lag settings have been accepted to be roughly ~35ms with renaming tricks, not over 60ms either
- some say FW updates have changed that for the better - no apparent posted disputes to that.
Perhaps the 2014 sets & FW updates will help more - or the Evo Kits may also better the issue.

You can get all kinds of goodies by quickly scanning through them
- just cut & paste as you come across relevant posts & detailed Game settings , into a word type document for detailed reading info later on.

Thanks, I'll definitely give the owners thread a look.

Quote:
The F8500 allows for several settings to be all saved for all modes, or different settings saved mode by mode.
Due to the inherent nature of how game video is coded vs the way media (TV, movies etc) are coded they present/express the picture differently.
,Therefore no single ISF calibration will work perfect for the 2 different modes. But if the movie mode is used for all, it will/should give a better picture for all modes.
The good news is that, some ISF calibrators include different/individual modes, in what they consider "properly" calibrating a set.

My only real worry here is whether or not the PC-renamed mode will actually ALLOW for an ISF-calibration. If so, then great, I'm sure I can get something that'll make me happy. If using the "PC" mode means I have to stick to the default picture settings, though, that's where I quickly lose interest in the set.
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post #11177 of 12369 Old 03-25-2014, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volktronic View Post

2 Quick questions...

1. I just got the Disney WOW disc and started calibrating. On the brightness section, if I turn up the brightness high enough to make the "whiter than white" stars disappear, then I loose all my blacks. Brightness ends up being around 75, ouch! Is it not necessary to completely whiten those stars out?


2. This is my first plasma tv. When I watch movies, the black bars on top and bottom of the screen have crazy little colored dots flying around like digital noise. They disappear when I get 3-4 feet away from the set, but is this normal?

Thanks!

If you are setting your brightness at 75, you are killing your blacks. I can't see any reason going higher than 50 for brightness. Setting contrast between 90 and 95 seems to be the sweet spot on these tv's along with brightness between 45 and 50.

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post #11178 of 12369 Old 03-25-2014, 09:10 PM
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I've been playing around with the Smart Touch Control remote. I love this gadget!

For those that haven't bought the TV yet, the 8500 comes with 2 remotes: traditional one and an STC
Remote that's a bit narrower in size, but about the same length as an iPhone 4. It serves me as a Universal Remote
For the TV and the FiOS DVR/Cable Box. I'm pleasantly surprised at all the functionality
it has for my 2 most used components. It has a touch pad where one may write commands
Using finger tips. Also, voice commands may be used as well. Additional commands may be added to the
"Virtual Remote"- which has 3 displays on the TV- WOW! I'm enjoying learning more about this TV.

I'm using Wxman's settings and my TV has never looked or functioned better!

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post #11179 of 12369 Old 03-25-2014, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskanAVGuy View Post


I'm not sure as the 2014 Evo Kit won't be release for a while i've read.

I just talked with a Samsung Rep over at their websites Live Chat and was told that, "each model year will have
Three guaranteed kit upgrades." They count the first year from when you buy the new set as a whole year.
So, they say you have the current technology for four years. Only time will tell if this is a true statement.

Latest:

2014 One Connect Box
Samsung also announced a 2014 UHD Evolution Kit, model SEK-2500V in the form of a replacement outboard OneConnect box for its 4K 2013 F9000 series and UN85S9. The SEK-2500V offers an upgrade to 2014 Smart TV improvements as well as HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0 and HEVC, according to a Samsung spokesperson. It will be available in late Spring for $399


2014 Evolution Kit
The 2014 Evolution Kit, model SEK-2000 which will upgrade select 2012 and 2013 Samsung HDTVs to 2014 Smart TV functionality, including a new graphic user interface. The compatible 2013 series are the F7500and F8000 LED LCDs, the F8500 series plasma HDTVs and the KN55S9C OLED HDTV. It will be available in May for $249.

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post #11180 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgiorgio View Post

2014 Evolution Kit
The 2014 Evolution Kit, model SEK-2000 which will upgrade select 2012 and 2013 Samsung HDTVs to 2014 Smart TV functionality, including a new graphic user interface. The compatible 2013 series are the F7500and F8000 LED LCDs, the F8500 series plasma HDTVs and the KN55S9C OLED HDTV. It will be available in May for $249.
Found this description:
This kit will upgrade the following:
  1. New Samsung Smart Hub and Multi Link Screen
  2. Upgrade existing processors to the latest Quad Core Plus processors, improving TV's speed
  3. Latest version of Voice & Motion control, including motion control with just one finger
  4. Latest version of face recognition
  5. Latest 2014 Smart remote control also included
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post #11181 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Found this description:
This kit will upgrade the following:
  1. New Samsung Smart Hub and Multi Link Screen
  2. Upgrade existing processors to the latest Quad Core Plus processors, improving TV's speed
  3. Latest version of Voice & Motion control, including motion control with just one finger
  4. Latest version of face recognition
  5. Latest 2014 Smart remote control also included

This caught my attention. Maybe less lag?
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post #11182 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Found this description:
This kit will upgrade the following:
  1. New Samsung Smart Hub and Multi Link Screen
  2. Upgrade existing processors to the latest Quad Core Plus processors, improving TV's speed
  3. Latest version of Voice & Motion control, including motion control with just one finger
  4. Latest version of face recognition
  5. Latest 2014 Smart remote control also included

The only item that interest me is the processor upgrade to the latest Quad Core Plus processor.

It's be nice to know the difference between the original and the evo kit processors and how that difference shows up in terms of picture quality.

Given the price of the evo kit....can't imagine the processor being all that high end anyway.

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post #11183 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 04:50 AM
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So, basically $250 for a processor upgrade that does...what? If it helps with lag, that should be a free fix because it's pretty terrible without game mode enabled. Why would I be happy paying for that?
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post #11184 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

So, basically $250 for a processor upgrade that does...what? If it helps with lag, that should be a free fix because it's pretty terrible without game mode enabled. Why would I be happy paying for that?

I'm not all that awake yet but are you complaining that you get lag playing games unless you use the specific setting intended to reduce lag?

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post #11185 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 05:12 AM
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Yes, the setting that I've never needed to use on any other display before, because the lag was tolerable without having to use it. The F8500 with game mode ON feels about equal to my 5+ year-old 500M with it OFF. That seems a bit silly to me.

I'm not a big fan of not only having to switch the setting back and forth which takes a few menu screens, but also being forced into Standard mode. I'd gladly take a reasonable amount of lag and being able to keep the display in one mode, but games are virtually unplayable on the Samsung without game mode turned on.
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post #11186 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 05:13 AM
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You guys are still holding out for a false hope for a quick cash grab scam? People in the LCD forum have suffered enough with this Evolution Kit crap. Samsung originally promised for improved PQ, they didn't come through then. They sure are not now.
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post #11187 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 05:19 AM
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No use complaining by comparing input lag against other displays.

The Panasonic ST60's "Game Mode" has ALL the picture controls you can ask for and more

... It's precisely the reason why it's input lag is horrible. While not ideal, I'll still take the F8500's method over the ST60.
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post #11188 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 05:31 AM
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Hoi Guys,
A friend bought a 51 inch f8500 few months ago and he has a double image problem with his OPPO, PS3 and other external satelite tuner.
He had the local Samsung repair center come by and replace all boards except the MAIN input board the one that has the HDMI, USB and digital audio inputs on it.
That did not solve the problem then the repair center took the unit to their shop kept it for about 2 weeks and reported they could not find anything irregular in the tv. They did not replace the mainboard though.

Apicture of what he is seeing with external inputs.



Thx for any info anyone might have or suggest.

Rob
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post #11189 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooknl View Post

Hoi Guys,
A friend bought a 51 inch f8500 few months ago and he has a double image problem with his OPPO, PS3 and other external satelite tuner.
He had the local Samsung repair center come by and replace all boards except the MAIN input board the one that has the HDMI, USB and digital audio inputs on it.
That did not solve the problem then the repair center took the unit to their shop kept it for about 2 weeks and reported they could not find anything irregular in the tv. They did not replace the mainboard though.

Apicture of what he is seeing with external inputs.
Rob

Looks like a signal bleed or over processing by an HDMI bridge

Clean connectors - Then plug in each unit 1 by 1 & test each separately direct to TV - not through AVR or through OPPO

Try replacement (or better) HDMI (V 1.3a & up) & input cables - also check for any interference or touching from any electrical wires, plugs, sources etc
Using a line noise filtering plug or unit might also solve

If in a condo or apartment, the ground or "line return - white wire" could be compromised in the building

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post #11190 of 12369 Old 03-26-2014, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooknl View Post

Hoi Guys,
A friend bought a 51 inch f8500 few months ago and he has a double image problem with his OPPO, PS3 and other external satelite tuner.
He had the local Samsung repair center come by and replace all boards except the MAIN input board the one that has the HDMI, USB and digital audio inputs on it.
That did not solve the problem then the repair center took the unit to their shop kept it for about 2 weeks and reported they could not find anything irregular in the tv. They did not replace the mainboard though.

Apicture of what he is seeing with external inputs.



Thx for any info anyone might have or suggest.

Rob

I believe I'd try an older 3 RCA RGB cable and see what that resulted in directly from any of the outside sources BUT directly to the display NOT through an AVR. I'd think most of us have an old RCA RGB cable or two around.
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