Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 406 - AVS Forum
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post #12151 of 12891 Old 06-10-2014, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I believe this has been posted before that the PC rename is no longer needed. The benefit that was gotten by the rename has been for the most part neutralized in the other modes (they have the same lag as PC mode used to). There were a number of posts on this in either this thread or the owners thread. If you do a search I'm sure you'll find the discussions that occurred.


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Hmm, the information that I found was a little different. Before the change, there were three "tiers" of lag:

 

1st: input name changed to 'PC'. ~35ms
2nd: any input name(other than PC), with game mode activated. ~50ms
3rd: any input name(other than PC), with game mode off. ~120ms

 

​After the change, supposedly this is the result: 

 

1st: game mode on ~50ms
2nd: game mode off ~120ms

 

Thus, the loss of the PC input trick means that the best option currently available is game setting in any input (PC or otherwise). Unfortunately, this is still ~15ms slower than what was available when the PC input trick worked. 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I found the post you mentioned:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/5970#post_24730305

 

I believe I am actually still correct. When the poster mentions "...there is no longer any 'pc name trick'. switching between pc and game and anything else makes no difference now...", he does not mean that the benefit of PC name trick now applies to everything. Rather he is saying the PC name benefit is entirely GONE, which is why there is no difference now (every input name conforms to the worse input lag now). 

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post #12152 of 12891 Old 06-11-2014, 10:06 PM
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My f8500 doesn't have game mode that I can find. How does one turn on game mode on this tv?
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post #12153 of 12891 Old 06-11-2014, 10:32 PM
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^ Menu-> System -> General -> Game Mode
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post #12154 of 12891 Old 06-12-2014, 08:08 AM
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^ Menu-> System -> General -> Game Mode
Thanks. So renaming the input to PC is no longer needed huh?
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post #12155 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 11:39 AM
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Is there any significant difference between the SEK-1000/ZA Evolution Kit sold by Samsung and the SEK-1000 Evolution Kit listed on Crutchfield's web site?

Are they the same device & Crutchfield just neglected to list the device's full model description?

I don't really understand this FAQ from Samsung's web site:

"Can I Use The Evolution Kit On Any Other TV?

No, the evolution kit will only work with the compatible 2012 models. There are 2013 models with evolution ports but because this Evolution Kit (SEK-1000) updates a 2012 TV to a 2013 interface and features adding the SEK-1000 to a 2013 TV will add no benefit. When the 2014 Evolution is released you can add that Evolution Kit to your TV and it will update your TV to a 2014 interface and features."

Isn't the F8500 a 2013 smart TV?

Last edited by 9179mhb; 06-13-2014 at 12:05 PM.
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post #12156 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post
Is there any significant difference between the SEK-1000/ZA Evolution Kit sold by Samsung and the SEK-1000 Evolution Kit listed on Crutchfield's web site?

Are they the same device & Crutchfield just neglected to list the device's full model description?

Thoe are last years models and would serve no benefit for the f8500 since it already has the 2013 "upgrades" offered by the SEK-1000, for the F8500 the correct evolution kit is the SEK-2000 (2014 version)
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post #12157 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 12:46 PM
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Thanks, so what is the 2014 model for the F8500?

I thought the EVO kit was supposed to deliver (5) years of updates?

sorry... I see the 2014 model you listed... how about the (5) years of updates?

How do I determine what EVO kit is compatible with the 64F8500?

SEK-2000 | SEK-2000/XM
SEK-2000 | SEK-2000/ZA
SEK-2500U | SEK-2500U/XM
SEK-2500U | SEK-2500U/ZA

Nevermind... I got pro-active and figured it out...

SEK-2000/ZA

Compatibility

Compatible Models

- 2012 PDP E7000 (no SI) and E8000
- 2012 LED ES7500 and ES8000
- 2013 PDP F8500
- 2013 LED F7000, F7450, F7500, F8000, F8500


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post #12158 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingmuzmo View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Ph8te

I believe this has been posted before that the PC rename is no longer needed. The benefit that was gotten by the rename has been for the most part neutralized in the other modes (they have the same lag as PC mode used to). There were a number of posts on this in either this thread or the owners thread. If you do a search I'm sure you'll find the discussions that occurred.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmm, the information that I found was a little different. Before the change, there were three "tiers" of lag:

1st: input name changed to 'PC'. ~35ms
2nd: any input name(other than PC), with game mode activated. ~50ms
3rd: any input name(other than PC), with game mode off. ~120ms

​After the change, supposedly this is the result:

1st: game mode on ~50ms
2nd: game mode off ~120ms

Thus, the loss of the PC input trick means that the best option currently available is game setting in any input (PC or otherwise). Unfortunately, this is still ~15ms slower than what was available when the PC input trick worked.




EDIT: I found the post you mentioned:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/of...#post_24730305

I believe I am actually still correct. When the poster mentions "...there is no longer any 'pc name trick'. switching between pc and game and anything else makes no difference now...", he does not mean that the benefit of PC name trick now applies to everything. Rather he is saying the PC name benefit is entirely GONE, which is why there is no difference now (every input name conforms to the worse input lag now).


give me some time, i'll set up the test again and see how it stands.


a few fw's ago, those were my results. I haven't actually tested since the pc trick disappeared. seeing as how I couldn't tell the difference between game mode and PC before(other than picture quality changes) I'm sure i'll need to do the test to find out if game mode still gives 50ms or if it's dropped down to the pc level of 35ms.
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post #12159 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
give me some time, i'll set up the test again and see how it stands.


a few fw's ago, those were my results. I haven't actually tested since the pc trick disappeared. seeing as how I couldn't tell the difference between game mode and PC before(other than picture quality changes) I'm sure i'll need to do the test to find out if game mode still gives 50ms or if it's dropped down to the pc level of 35ms.
ok, interesting...


first, i don't remember how fast of a shutter speed i used the first time around, but i know i kept making it faster as i was getting less consistent results. i THINK by the time i got to testing the pc and game modes, it was fast enough to be accurate. but i do know when i was testing the normal mode i was getting between 110 and 120ms. so it wasn't a fast enough shutter.


back to today. i took some shots using 1/250 shutter speed and the results seemed to be all over the place. i got 80, 100, 130, 100,110,130. so i knew that wasn't gonna cut it. i decreased the exposure to 1/640th and got super consistent results(although they didn't line up at all with my previous test, which makes me wonder a bit)


here's what i got today:


Game mode off: 100ms(3x consecutively)

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...07854004_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...41051880_n.jpg
Game mode on: 70ms(4x consecutively)

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...37062271_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...99390663_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...54918184_n.jpg

and again, these numbers are compared to an lcd screen that can not assume has 0ms, so actually lag times are like 10-20ms higher, at least.


wish i had a time machine to go back a couple fw's and double check this, but unfortunately i can't. it does seem odd to me though that game mode off seems to have improved(although I'm guessing that was error on my first test, since that was the first one i did, and the one that had a range of results from 110-120) and gotten worse with game mode on(went from ~50ms to 70ms). this is definitely not an improvement that would make the PC name trick useless, if anything it seems to make it more important to have!

Last edited by fierce_gt; 06-13-2014 at 01:47 PM.
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post #12160 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 01:43 PM
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Thanks. So renaming the input to PC is no longer needed huh?
imo, it's still needed, but it's not 'available' anymore. in that naming it to pc now does nothing, so that 'feature' is not an option anymore, unfortunately. the only way to reduce lag is turn game mode on, and imo, it's not enough.
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post #12161 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 02:07 PM
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imo, it's still needed, but it's not 'available' anymore. in that naming it to pc now does nothing, so that 'feature' is not an option anymore, unfortunately. the only way to reduce lag is turn game mode on, and imo, it's not enough.
Hmmm. I wonder if the 2014 evolution kit helps at all since video processing is handled by the faster processor in the evo box and not the one built into the tv.

Is there an easy way for me to test? I have a evo kit installed and have a ps3.
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post #12162 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 02:33 PM
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Hmmm. I wonder if the 2014 evolution kit helps at all since video processing is handled by the faster processor in the evo box and not the one built into the tv.

Is there an easy way for me to test? I have a evo kit installed and have a ps3.


you need a way to hook up a pc, and split the video output to two monitors(preferably one that is a low lag monitor)


I have a HTPC hooked up to my f8500, and a 4way HDMI splitter(use it for my projector and stuff). I just hook an hdmi connection from the splitter into a second tv, and use that to compare.


even if you do it, you'd have to make your own baseline measurements before you install the evo kit. it would be interesting to see though


if you have the following available:
-laptop or pc with video outputs
-splitter for video output
-second low-lag display
-camera with adjustable exposure(preferably 1/500 or faster)


just google input lag test, there's a link to the program I used in the first result that pops up(I think it's a cnet article?)
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post #12163 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
you need a way to hook up a pc, and split the video output to two monitors(preferably one that is a low lag monitor)


I have a HTPC hooked up to my f8500, and a 4way HDMI splitter(use it for my projector and stuff). I just hook an hdmi connection from the splitter into a second tv, and use that to compare.


even if you do it, you'd have to make your own baseline measurements before you install the evo kit. it would be interesting to see though


if you have the following available:
-laptop or pc with video outputs
-splitter for video output
-second low-lag display
-camera with adjustable exposure(preferably 1/500 or faster)


just google input lag test, there's a link to the program I used in the first result that pops up(I think it's a cnet article?)
Just so you know, you don't need to download the program. An HTML based version is available:

http://tft.vanity.dk/inputlag.html

It's a shame to hear about Samsung's terrible decision to remove the effect of the PC input trick. I'll be sure to run some tests myself when my set arrives next week.

Last edited by amazingmuzmo; 06-13-2014 at 06:29 PM.
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post #12164 of 12891 Old 06-13-2014, 07:30 PM
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Anyone see the new Pixie app on the F8500? Supposed to have been released today, but can't find it.

http://gizmodo.com/samsungs-smart-tv...lly-1590343358
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post #12165 of 12891 Old 06-14-2014, 08:31 AM
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Does the Samsung Evolution Kit provide a (1) & done upgrade for their smart TV's?

By that I mean if I purchase a SEK-2000/ZA EVO kit to update the smart features for my 64F8500 to the 2014 version, next year will I have to buy an SEK-3000/ZA EVO kit to receive the 2015 updates if any are available?
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post #12166 of 12891 Old 06-14-2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post
By that I mean if I purchase a SEK-2000/ZA EVO kit to update the smart features for my 64F8500 to the 2014 version, next year will I have to buy an SEK-3000/ZA EVO kit to receive the 2015 updates if any are available?
Yes, that's how it works. Anything that can't be done with a firmware / software update is going to require new hardware.
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post #12167 of 12891 Old 06-14-2014, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingmuzmo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
you need a way to hook up a pc, and split the video output to two monitors(preferably one that is a low lag monitor)


I have a HTPC hooked up to my f8500, and a 4way HDMI splitter(use it for my projector and stuff). I just hook an hdmi connection from the splitter into a second tv, and use that to compare.


even if you do it, you'd have to make your own baseline measurements before you install the evo kit. it would be interesting to see though


if you have the following available:
-laptop or pc with video outputs
-splitter for video output
-second low-lag display
-camera with adjustable exposure(preferably 1/500 or faster)


just google input lag test, there's a link to the program I used in the first result that pops up(I think it's a cnet article?)
Just so you know, you don't need to download the program. An HTML based version is available:

http://tft.vanity.dk/inputlag.html

It's a shame to hear about Samsung's terrible decision to remove the effect of the PC input trick. I'll be sure to run some tests myself when my set arrives next week.
semantics, I call everything 'downloaded' if it's online
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post #12168 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post
By that I mean if I purchase a SEK-2000/ZA EVO kit to update the smart features for my 64F8500 to the 2014 version, next year will I have to buy an SEK-3000/ZA EVO kit to receive the 2015 updates if any are available?
Yes, that's how it works. Anything that can't be done with a firmware / software update is going to require new hardware.

Thanks. At $200(+) per year that is one pricey upgrade. I suppose I can buy last year's version for ~$100 instead.


Is there any "must have" features included w/the EVO kit that justify the expense?
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post #12169 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post
By that I mean if I purchase a SEK-2000/ZA EVO kit to update the smart features for my 64F8500 to the 2014 version, next year will I have to buy an SEK-3000/ZA EVO kit to receive the 2015 updates if any are available?
Yes, that's how it works. Anything that can't be done with a firmware / software update is going to require new hardware.

Thanks. At $200(+) per year that is one pricey upgrade. I suppose I can buy last year's version for ~$100 instead.


Is there any "must have" features included w/the EVO kit that justify the expense?
Seems that Samsung would have to walk the tightrope to not give you too much. They still rather you buy a new display.

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post #12170 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post
By that I mean if I purchase a SEK-2000/ZA EVO kit to update the smart features for my 64F8500 to the 2014 version, next year will I have to buy an SEK-3000/ZA EVO kit to receive the 2015 updates if any are available?
Yes, that's how it works. Anything that can't be done with a firmware / software update is going to require new hardware.

Thanks. At $200(+) per year that is one pricey upgrade. I suppose I can buy last year's version for ~$100 instead.


Is there any "must have" features included w/the EVO kit that justify the expense?
$200 vs 3000 for a new TV. Why would you buy the previous years when you already have that tech in the TV?

The features are the improved processors, smart remote and new Smart interface. I don't think most will upgrade every year, unless there is another need for it. Rather every other year would probably be more useful.





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post #12171 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that's how it works. Anything that can't be done with a firmware / software update is going to require new hardware.
I have seen one hardware update in 10 years, so I would not count on it.
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post #12172 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 09:44 AM
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By that I mean if I purchase a SEK-2000/ZA EVO kit to update the smart features for my 64F8500 to the 2014 version, next year will I have to buy an SEK-3000/ZA EVO kit to receive the 2015 updates if any are available?
Yes, that's how it works. Anything that can't be done with a firmware / software update is going to require new hardware.

Thanks. At $200(+) per year that is one pricey upgrade. I suppose I can buy last year's version for ~$100 instead.


Is there any "must have" features included w/the EVO kit that justify the expense?
Your tv is a 2013 model. Buying last years (2013) evo kit will do nothing for you.
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post #12173 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 09:58 AM
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but if he waits until 2015 to buy 'last years' 2014 on clearance, and then in 2016 he buys 'last years' 2015 model on clearance...etc


you guys obviously aren't frugal enough to understand this, it seemed obvious to me what he was talking about


i'm still not sure why I would consider this. remote is useless, I use a harmony anyway, and i'm not sure how much a little processor can affect picture quality. this seems like an option of buying new features, like if your tv wasn't a smart tv when you bought it, then a 200 dollar upgrade to make it a smart tv might make sense for some.


for me, it's a display, it's used as a display, and it will always be just a display. so the only thing that matters is the picture performance, and i'm not sure how that's going to be improved with a processor only
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post #12174 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 10:12 AM
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Yes, that's how it works. Anything that can't be done with a firmware / software update is going to require new hardware.
I have seen one hardware update in 10 years, so I would not count on it.
Uh... Samsung is releasing new Evolution kits every year. That's new hardware.
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post #12175 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 12:13 PM
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but if he waits until 2015 to buy 'last years' 2014 on clearance, and then in 2016 he buys 'last years' 2015 model on clearance...etc


you guys obviously aren't frugal enough to understand this, it seemed obvious to me what he was talking about


i'm still not sure why I would consider this. remote is useless, I use a harmony anyway, and i'm not sure how much a little processor can affect picture quality. this seems like an option of buying new features, like if your tv wasn't a smart tv when you bought it, then a 200 dollar upgrade to make it a smart tv might make sense for some.


for me, it's a display, it's used as a display, and it will always be just a display. so the only thing that matters is the picture performance, and i'm not sure how that's going to be improved with a processor only
Sure, he can also wait till 2020 and buy the 2017 evo kit for $25
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post #12176 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
but if he waits until 2015 to buy 'last years' 2014 on clearance, and then in 2016 he buys 'last years' 2015 model on clearance...etc


you guys obviously aren't frugal enough to understand this, it seemed obvious to me what he was talking about


i'm still not sure why I would consider this. remote is useless, I use a harmony anyway, and i'm not sure how much a little processor can affect picture quality. this seems like an option of buying new features, like if your tv wasn't a smart tv when you bought it, then a 200 dollar upgrade to make it a smart tv might make sense for some.


for me, it's a display, it's used as a display, and it will always be just a display. so the only thing that matters is the picture performance, and i'm not sure how that's going to be improved with a processor only
Sure, he can also wait till 2020 and buy the 2017 evo kit for $25


I'm sure you're making a point, but I don't see what it is.


the solution of waiting a year makes PERFECT sense, and it's a much better value to do so.


your exaggeration is the problem. nobody said anything about waiting 6yrs. I mean if we're going to say stupid things, then we should probably make fun of the ppl who haven't preordered their 2018 evo kits yet
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post #12177 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 06:03 PM
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but if he waits until 2015 to buy 'last years' 2014 on clearance, and then in 2016 he buys 'last years' 2015 model on clearance...etc


you guys obviously aren't frugal enough to understand this, it seemed obvious to me what he was talking about


i'm still not sure why I would consider this. remote is useless, I use a harmony anyway, and i'm not sure how much a little processor can affect picture quality. this seems like an option of buying new features, like if your tv wasn't a smart tv when you bought it, then a 200 dollar upgrade to make it a smart tv might make sense for some.


for me, it's a display, it's used as a display, and it will always be just a display. so the only thing that matters is the picture performance, and i'm not sure how that's going to be improved with a processor only
Sure, he can also wait till 2020 and buy the 2017 evo kit for $25


I'm sure you're making a point, but I don't see what it is.


the solution of waiting a year makes PERFECT sense, and it's a much better value to do so.


your exaggeration is the problem. nobody said anything about waiting 6yrs. I mean if we're going to say stupid things, then we should probably make fun of the ppl who haven't preordered their 2018 evo kits yet
That's just silly everyone on this board had already pre ordered their 2018 evo kits. No one left to make fun of.
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post #12178 of 12891 Old 06-15-2014, 08:51 PM
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I have owned my 64 inch Sammy going on 6 months now. Still very happy with it. 2 little add ons have made a difference. First is the fan I attached to the upper vent on side where HDMI inputs are. It really has reduced the heat on the backside. The other add on is my Monoprice Power center. I didn't realize how much my voltage fluctuated. Generally around 120 volts during the day, but jumps up to around 124-126 volts at night. I use to hear a slight buzz before I got it, now no buzz whatsoever, with more clean power as opposed to my old power strip. Other than that, no real issues with the tv. Glad I bought it before plasmas disappear forever.
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post #12179 of 12891 Old 06-16-2014, 07:15 AM
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but if he waits until 2015 to buy 'last years' 2014 on clearance, and then in 2016 he buys 'last years' 2015 model on clearance...etc


you guys obviously aren't frugal enough to understand this, it seemed obvious to me what he was talking about


i'm still not sure why I would consider this. remote is useless, I use a harmony anyway, and i'm not sure how much a little processor can affect picture quality. this seems like an option of buying new features, like if your tv wasn't a smart tv when you bought it, then a 200 dollar upgrade to make it a smart tv might make sense for some.


for me, it's a display, it's used as a display, and it will always be just a display. so the only thing that matters is the picture performance, and i'm not sure how that's going to be improved with a processor only
Sure, he can also wait till 2020 and buy the 2017 evo kit for $25


I'm sure you're making a point, but I don't see what it is.


the solution of waiting a year makes PERFECT sense, and it's a much better value to do so.


your exaggeration is the problem. nobody said anything about waiting 6yrs. I mean if we're going to say stupid things, then we should probably make fun of the ppl who haven't preordered their 2018 evo kits yet

Hey, what's this? A voice of reason out here in the wilderness? We can't have that.


Seriously though, fierce_gt gets exactly the intent of my post. I misunderstood Samsung's assertions regarding their EVO kit when they said they would provide 5 years of updates for their smart TVs. I did not realize this would require buying a new EVO kit @ ~$250 per year.


I'm old school, born and raised during a different era, and my 800(+) credit score tells me it is a better value to buy last years EVO kit (which for me isn't available until next year) at ~$100 to achieve what amounts to some "nickel & dime" upgrade for my PDP.
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post #12180 of 12891 Old 06-16-2014, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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but if he waits until 2015 to buy 'last years' 2014 on clearance, and then in 2016 he buys 'last years' 2015 model on clearance...etc
Good luck guessing when these will be gone, they will go up just like the Panasonic's did before they go away. TC-P65ZT60 are on Amazon for $6900, LOL. If you still have high demand at the end, which these 8500's will, the price will go up, not down........
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