Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 411 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk]
ParityBit's Avatar ParityBit 05:58 AM 07-23-2014
How is real world gaming on this panel? Xbox/PS gaming that is. I have read/been told Sports looks amazing on it, so I am now interested in the game aspect. I know movies/TV will look great.

I am waffling between the 64 and some 4K TV's. Unfortunatly, there is nowhere I can test/see/play around with the F8500.


Thanks!

Keenan's Avatar Keenan 10:27 AM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Since you are getting a 2014 model, the rising black issue has been fixed. You really don't want that with a plasma. Rising blacks reduce overall contrast and blacks do not look as black.
Can you expand on this? Or is there a posting somewhere that goes into this "issue" in detail?
Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te 10:46 AM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Can you expand on this? Or is there a posting somewhere that goes into this "issue" in detail?

Well it was discussed back in the early days of this thread. It was in the first few months or so of release when it was heavily discussed.

Ever since some grey market retailer said there was a 2013/2014 model it seems it has caught on. There are no 2014 models. There are 2013 models built in 2014 however. These 2014 build models since they come with newer software are more than likely to have most of the fixes that were issues early on. One of the biggest was that black level would rise when CS was engaged. This however was fixed awhile ago I believe.


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Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te 10:48 AM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
The FW would have to be before 1114 and a build date before November 2013. that's what came with the tv I bought in January. Probably have to find out what the initial FW was with the tv. Then you have the issue if you do find one with the initial FW or one prior to 1114, you have rising blacks using cinema smooth.

Not only that l, but then you would need someone to go firmware by firmware to see which one is "the" one. I'm not sure anyone has the time or money for that endeavor here


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Keenan's Avatar Keenan 10:50 AM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Well it was discussed back in the early days of this thread. It was in the first few months or so of release when it was heavily discussed.

Ever since some grey market retailer said there was a 2013/2014 model it seems it has caught on. There are no 2014 models. There are 2013 models built in 2014 however. These 2014 build models since they come with newer software are more than likely to have most of the fixes that were issues early on. One of the biggest was that black level would rise when CS was engaged. This however was fixed awhile ago I believe.


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Okay, so the later production displays do not have this "rising black level" issue?

I was reading it the other way around I guess, that the later ones were firmware upgraded and the display ended up with worse black levels.
mightymouseusf's Avatar mightymouseusf 10:53 AM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Okay, so the later production displays do not have this "rising black level" issue?

I was reading it the other way around I guess, that the later ones were firmware upgraded and the display ended up with worse black levels.
Chad B stated over on the other forum that he doubts the variance in light output was due to any firmware update. He's recently calibrated tv's that have output numbers in the 60s. Since he was the one that noted the difference in light output over the models he's calibrated to begin with, I tend to believe him.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...-talk-224.html
dusty123's Avatar dusty123 12:09 PM 07-23-2014
I got a Question for everybody if these new tv's are coming with a new firmware what is the difference in FW1120 compared to FW1200 that is on these new 2014 made sets Are we ever going to see firmware 1200
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 12:22 PM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post
Chad B stated over on the other forum that he doubts the variance in light output was due to any firmware update. He's recently calibrated tv's that have output numbers in the 60s. Since he was the one that noted the difference in light output over the models he's calibrated to begin with, I tend to believe him.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-pl...-talk-224.html
I confess that while I did start at the beginning of the thread I also skipped ahead when ever the discussion veered off into non-topic areas and I may have missed the brightness discussion. I did see the posts over the last few days but it feels as if there's some crucial information missing that was talked about earlier.

Just so I understand, there appears to be a variance in the brightness levels between different panels of the very same model(F8500)? Is this a critical issue, or something not to worry about? From reading Chad B's post it seems as if they do vary but it's irrelevant as far as the final calibrated image goes. Is this a correct assessment, or is there more to it?

Thanks
Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te 12:34 PM 07-23-2014
It depends how much brightness you want/need. Most calibrators calibrate to 35/40 ftL or lower for TVs They can go higher for a "day mode" and that's where it will vary on bwo high it can get.


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mightymouseusf's Avatar mightymouseusf 01:37 PM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
I confess that while I did start at the beginning of the thread I also skipped ahead when ever the discussion veered off into non-topic areas and I may have missed the brightness discussion. I did see the posts over the last few days but it feels as if there's some crucial information missing that was talked about earlier.

Just so I understand, there appears to be a variance in the brightness levels between different panels of the very same model(F8500)? Is this a critical issue, or something not to worry about? From reading Chad B's post it seems as if they do vary but it's irrelevant as far as the final calibrated image goes. Is this a correct assessment, or is there more to it?

Thanks
I'm not sure. Chad, if you're reading, could you clarify?

I suspect it's much the same reason why one person's calibration settings won't necessarily be spot on (or even close for that matter) for someone else' panel of the same model. Just panel variation in manufacturing.
Chad B's Avatar Chad B 03:46 PM 07-23-2014
See Ph8te's response above. The light output variation that I have seen on the F8500 may or may not be a limitation for a Day mode, depending on the environment and owner's tastes.

Yes, required settings also vary widely from set to set. There are some settings, like sharpness, that don't vary at all from one set to the next. Other settings, like CMS, brightness, contrast, etc vary somewhat but show strong family traits. Finally, you have the 2 and 10 point white balance controls that vary significantly from one set to the next. One interesting aspect of this is that even though CMS controls tend to be similar (though not identical) from set to set, unless the white balance is correct they will be thrown off. In other words, many of the controls are dependent on others being right in order for them to be right.
jpdyson's Avatar jpdyson 08:42 AM 07-24-2014
I've read through most of this thread, but I'm trying to get a grasp on the current input lag situation (sorry if the numbers are off; this is based on what I can glean from disparate sources).

It seems like at one point you had to enable Game Mode AND rename your input to PC in order to get the best lag scores (around 60ms); is that still the case? Some of the more recent posts seem to suggest that the PC re-name no longer matters; does that mean that:

A: the minimum input lag is the same as before (60ms), but available with Game Mode no matter what you name the input, or

B: the minimum input lag is now higher than before (80ms), as has always been available to Game Mode and some other input name?

If 60ms if input lag is still achievable, I'm currently planning to replace an older Samsung plasma (PN50B860) with the 51". I'm already a believer in the plasma master race, but what kind of PQ boost am I looking at here?
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 10:57 AM 07-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
See Ph8te's response above. The light output variation that I have seen on the F8500 may or may not be a limitation for a Day mode, depending on the environment and owner's tastes.

Yes, required settings also vary widely from set to set. There are some settings, like sharpness, that don't vary at all from one set to the next. Other settings, like CMS, brightness, contrast, etc vary somewhat but show strong family traits. Finally, you have the 2 and 10 point white balance controls that vary significantly from one set to the next. One interesting aspect of this is that even though CMS controls tend to be similar (though not identical) from set to set, unless the white balance is correct they will be thrown off. In other words, many of the controls are dependent on others being right in order for them to be right.
Thanks!

Given that 95% of my viewing is at night with the balance being almost exclusively sports broadcasts which are usually brightly lit images anyway it sounds like this "quirk" will be a non-issue for me.


(BTW, as you may already know, the links in your signature are broken. I posted in the forum op center about broken links and was directed to another thread on how to fix them. That thread is at The reason links in AVS Do/Don't Work Why this can not be done by the forum software people is unknown to me. )
markus46's Avatar markus46 03:27 PM 07-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdyson View Post
...I'm currently planning to replace an older Samsung plasma (PN50B860) with the 51". I'm already a believer in the plasma master race, but what kind of PQ boost am I looking at here?
I replaced a 50B850 with a 60F8500. Certainly the F8500 has far better black levels and more 'pop'. I am continually amazed by the PQ. Caveats:
  • I am not a gamer
  • I had the F8500 professionally calibrated whereas the B850 was calibrated by eye using the Spears & Munsil disc.

Good luck!
cronuskronos's Avatar cronuskronos 05:34 AM 07-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Obviously you've never attended an ISF or THX video calibration certification course.
Oh no! what am i going to do? ISF and THX calibration certification course is everything when it comes to understanding picture quality even Sony swore by these standards while producing stellar reference level CRT's, i am guessing even Pioneer Elite Plasma solely depended upon the amazing THX certification.

You must be really knowledgeable to still keep arguing about a paid certification like THX which from from my experience means zilch having seen so many mediocre THX certified products.
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767 07:01 AM 07-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by cronuskronos View Post
Oh no! what am i going to do? ISF and THX calibration certification course is everything when it comes to understanding picture quality even Sony swore by these standards while producing stellar reference level CRT's, i am guessing even Pioneer Elite Plasma solely depended upon the amazing THX certification.

You must be really knowledgeable to still keep arguing about a paid certification like THX which from from my experience means zilch having seen so many mediocre THX certified products.
A month old quote? Cocktail hour start early today?

Anything I stated about black level and contrast ratio is nothing new.

"Prominent among the attributes of a visual display are uniformity, Resolution, relative size (Aspect Ratio), and orientation (Front or Rear Projection. There is another variable to add to this list which can have such a profound effect on image quality that its importance arguably exceeds all of the other factors combined. This feature is called contrast."

Widescreen Review, Imaging Science Theater 2000, page 190


Like I said, nothing new.
mark_b's Avatar mark_b 12:06 PM 07-25-2014
So is firmware 1200 available now? Turned on my LED this morning and a message came up saying it was available. Never checked the 8500.
Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te 12:11 PM 07-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
So is firmware 1200 available now? Turned on my LED this morning and a message came up saying it was available. Never checked the 8500.

Not officially. Seems some of the June sets have had it installed, but haven't seen anything on an official release as of yet.


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JimP 01:03 PM 07-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
See Ph8te's response above. The light output variation that I have seen on the F8500 may or may not be a limitation for a Day mode, depending on the environment and owner's tastes.

Yes, required settings also vary widely from set to set. There are some settings, like sharpness, that don't vary at all from one set to the next. Other settings, like CMS, brightness, contrast, etc vary somewhat but show strong family traits. Finally, you have the 2 and 10 point white balance controls that vary significantly from one set to the next. One interesting aspect of this is that even though CMS controls tend to be similar (though not identical) from set to set, unless the white balance is correct they will be thrown off. In other words, many of the controls are dependent on others being right in order for them to be right.
Something I see on my 64F8500 is there are times when I make an adjustment (don't recall exactly where other than its not in cell or contrast) and the peak brightness will drops. I then have to wable up/down cell, brightness, and other settings until I eventually find the one that unsticks it and returns peak brightness to where it should be. Its very much like something in the firmware isn't working right.

Have you come across this phenomenon?
Chad B's Avatar Chad B 01:57 PM 07-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Something I see on my 64F8500 is there are times when I make an adjustment (don't recall exactly where other than its not in cell or contrast) and the peak brightness will drops. I then have to wable up/down cell, brightness, and other settings until I eventually find the one that unsticks it and returns peak brightness to where it should be. Its very much like something in the firmware isn't working right.

Have you come across this phenomenon?
Hmmm, no, can't say I have.
Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude 02:05 PM 07-25-2014
I've seen that in the two PC modes. I haven't seen it in any others.
p5browne's Avatar p5browne 07:41 PM 07-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by cronuskronos View Post
Oh no! what am i going to do? ISF and THX calibration certification course is everything when it comes to understanding picture quality even Sony swore by these standards while producing stellar reference level CRT's, i am guessing even Pioneer Elite Plasma solely depended upon the amazing THX certification.

You must be really knowledgeable to still keep arguing about a paid certification like THX which from from my experience means zilch having seen so many mediocre THX certified products.
THX or ISF Calibrations, are only as good as the person doing them. Not everyone in the class gets 100%.
Cleveland Plasma's Avatar Cleveland Plasma 08:06 AM 07-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Just so I understand, there appears to be a variance in the brightness levels between different panels of the very same model(F8500)? Is this a critical issue, or something not to worry about? From reading Chad B's post it seems as if they do vary but it's irrelevant as far as the final calibrated image goes. Is this a correct assessment, or is there more to it?

Thanks
A unit can only be so bright, you do not want to watch your TV with shades on right ?
Stereodude's Avatar Stereodude 08:21 AM 07-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
A unit can only be so bright, you do not want to watch your TV with shades on right ?
Well, it wouldn't be all bad. It would improve the perceived black level and reduce the visibility of reflections.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan 10:57 AM 07-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
A unit can only be so bright, you do not want to watch your TV with shades on right ?
Oh no, I'm not one that craves magnesium burning brightness!

All facets of a display work in conjunction to create the final image, I was just wondering if this discussion of brightness variations over different individual displays of the very same model was anything to worry about and the answer appears to be a pretty solid "no".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Well, it wouldn't be all bad. It would improve the perceived black level and reduce the visibility of reflections.
Probably a good way to minimize the effects of a hangover also. If one partakes in an excessive manner that is.
USMCj's Avatar USMCj 09:20 PM 07-26-2014
My 2014 made 60f8500 with 2014 sek-2000 evo kit got a software update from ver 1002 to ver 1004 sometime last night.

Anyone know what's new in this version?
Macroblocker's Avatar Macroblocker 11:58 PM 07-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Since you are getting a 2014 model, the rising black issue has been fixed. You really don't want that with a plasma. Rising blacks reduce overall contrast and blacks do not look as black.
ok i would like this settled because now i am confused , my TV which i just got last month was built in June 2013 but i updated to the latest firmware so the rising black level should not be a issue correct? btw i never even use cinesmooth as it looks very un-film like.
wxman's Avatar wxman 12:33 AM 07-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macroblocker View Post
ok i would like this settled because now i am confused , my TV which i just got last month was built in June 2013 but i updated to the latest firmware so the rising black level should not be a issue correct? btw i never even use cinesmooth as it looks very un-film like.
Rising blacks should not be an issue if you have latest FW.
cooknl's Avatar cooknl 12:48 AM 07-27-2014
Well finally got my 51" 8500 calibrated, it had just over 1500 hrs on it.
standard mode has been calibrated to 60fl as DAY mode.
and moviemode has been calibrated at 32FL as NITE mode.

It looks stunning!!!!
JimP 01:09 AM 07-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooknl View Post
Well finally got my 51" 8500 calibrated, it had just over 1500 hrs on it.
standard mode has been calibrated to 60fl as DAY mode.
and moviemode has been calibrated at 32FL as NITE mode.

It looks stunning!!!!
Who did your calibration?
Tags: Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv
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