Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 411 - AVS Forum
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post #12301 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 04:58 AM
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How is real world gaming on this panel? Xbox/PS gaming that is. I have read/been told Sports looks amazing on it, so I am now interested in the game aspect. I know movies/TV will look great.

I am waffling between the 64 and some 4K TV's. Unfortunatly, there is nowhere I can test/see/play around with the F8500.


Thanks!
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post #12302 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Since you are getting a 2014 model, the rising black issue has been fixed. You really don't want that with a plasma. Rising blacks reduce overall contrast and blacks do not look as black.
Can you expand on this? Or is there a posting somewhere that goes into this "issue" in detail?
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post #12303 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Can you expand on this? Or is there a posting somewhere that goes into this "issue" in detail?

Well it was discussed back in the early days of this thread. It was in the first few months or so of release when it was heavily discussed.

Ever since some grey market retailer said there was a 2013/2014 model it seems it has caught on. There are no 2014 models. There are 2013 models built in 2014 however. These 2014 build models since they come with newer software are more than likely to have most of the fixes that were issues early on. One of the biggest was that black level would rise when CS was engaged. This however was fixed awhile ago I believe.


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post #12304 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
The FW would have to be before 1114 and a build date before November 2013. that's what came with the tv I bought in January. Probably have to find out what the initial FW was with the tv. Then you have the issue if you do find one with the initial FW or one prior to 1114, you have rising blacks using cinema smooth.

Not only that l, but then you would need someone to go firmware by firmware to see which one is "the" one. I'm not sure anyone has the time or money for that endeavor here


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post #12305 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Well it was discussed back in the early days of this thread. It was in the first few months or so of release when it was heavily discussed.

Ever since some grey market retailer said there was a 2013/2014 model it seems it has caught on. There are no 2014 models. There are 2013 models built in 2014 however. These 2014 build models since they come with newer software are more than likely to have most of the fixes that were issues early on. One of the biggest was that black level would rise when CS was engaged. This however was fixed awhile ago I believe.


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Okay, so the later production displays do not have this "rising black level" issue?

I was reading it the other way around I guess, that the later ones were firmware upgraded and the display ended up with worse black levels.
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post #12306 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Okay, so the later production displays do not have this "rising black level" issue?

I was reading it the other way around I guess, that the later ones were firmware upgraded and the display ended up with worse black levels.
Chad B stated over on the other forum that he doubts the variance in light output was due to any firmware update. He's recently calibrated tv's that have output numbers in the 60s. Since he was the one that noted the difference in light output over the models he's calibrated to begin with, I tend to believe him.

Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)
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post #12307 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 11:09 AM
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I got a Question for everybody if these new tv's are coming with a new firmware what is the difference in FW1120 compared to FW1200 that is on these new 2014 made sets Are we ever going to see firmware 1200
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post #12308 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post
Chad B stated over on the other forum that he doubts the variance in light output was due to any firmware update. He's recently calibrated tv's that have output numbers in the 60s. Since he was the one that noted the difference in light output over the models he's calibrated to begin with, I tend to believe him.

Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)
I confess that while I did start at the beginning of the thread I also skipped ahead when ever the discussion veered off into non-topic areas and I may have missed the brightness discussion. I did see the posts over the last few days but it feels as if there's some crucial information missing that was talked about earlier.

Just so I understand, there appears to be a variance in the brightness levels between different panels of the very same model(F8500)? Is this a critical issue, or something not to worry about? From reading Chad B's post it seems as if they do vary but it's irrelevant as far as the final calibrated image goes. Is this a correct assessment, or is there more to it?

Thanks
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post #12309 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 11:34 AM
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It depends how much brightness you want/need. Most calibrators calibrate to 35/40 ftL or lower for TVs They can go higher for a "day mode" and that's where it will vary on bwo high it can get.


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post #12310 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
I confess that while I did start at the beginning of the thread I also skipped ahead when ever the discussion veered off into non-topic areas and I may have missed the brightness discussion. I did see the posts over the last few days but it feels as if there's some crucial information missing that was talked about earlier.

Just so I understand, there appears to be a variance in the brightness levels between different panels of the very same model(F8500)? Is this a critical issue, or something not to worry about? From reading Chad B's post it seems as if they do vary but it's irrelevant as far as the final calibrated image goes. Is this a correct assessment, or is there more to it?

Thanks
I'm not sure. Chad, if you're reading, could you clarify?

I suspect it's much the same reason why one person's calibration settings won't necessarily be spot on (or even close for that matter) for someone else' panel of the same model. Just panel variation in manufacturing.
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post #12311 of 12321 Old 07-23-2014, 02:46 PM
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See Ph8te's response above. The light output variation that I have seen on the F8500 may or may not be a limitation for a Day mode, depending on the environment and owner's tastes.

Yes, required settings also vary widely from set to set. There are some settings, like sharpness, that don't vary at all from one set to the next. Other settings, like CMS, brightness, contrast, etc vary somewhat but show strong family traits. Finally, you have the 2 and 10 point white balance controls that vary significantly from one set to the next. One interesting aspect of this is that even though CMS controls tend to be similar (though not identical) from set to set, unless the white balance is correct they will be thrown off. In other words, many of the controls are dependent on others being right in order for them to be right.
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post #12312 of 12321 Old Yesterday, 07:42 AM
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I've read through most of this thread, but I'm trying to get a grasp on the current input lag situation (sorry if the numbers are off; this is based on what I can glean from disparate sources).

It seems like at one point you had to enable Game Mode AND rename your input to PC in order to get the best lag scores (around 60ms); is that still the case? Some of the more recent posts seem to suggest that the PC re-name no longer matters; does that mean that:

A: the minimum input lag is the same as before (60ms), but available with Game Mode no matter what you name the input, or

B: the minimum input lag is now higher than before (80ms), as has always been available to Game Mode and some other input name?

If 60ms if input lag is still achievable, I'm currently planning to replace an older Samsung plasma (PN50B860) with the 51". I'm already a believer in the plasma master race, but what kind of PQ boost am I looking at here?
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post #12313 of 12321 Old Yesterday, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
See Ph8te's response above. The light output variation that I have seen on the F8500 may or may not be a limitation for a Day mode, depending on the environment and owner's tastes.

Yes, required settings also vary widely from set to set. There are some settings, like sharpness, that don't vary at all from one set to the next. Other settings, like CMS, brightness, contrast, etc vary somewhat but show strong family traits. Finally, you have the 2 and 10 point white balance controls that vary significantly from one set to the next. One interesting aspect of this is that even though CMS controls tend to be similar (though not identical) from set to set, unless the white balance is correct they will be thrown off. In other words, many of the controls are dependent on others being right in order for them to be right.
Thanks!

Given that 95% of my viewing is at night with the balance being almost exclusively sports broadcasts which are usually brightly lit images anyway it sounds like this "quirk" will be a non-issue for me.


(BTW, as you may already know, the links in your signature are broken. I posted in the forum op center about broken links and was directed to another thread on how to fix them. That thread is at The reason links in AVS Do/Don't Work Why this can not be done by the forum software people is unknown to me. )

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post #12314 of 12321 Old Yesterday, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdyson View Post
...I'm currently planning to replace an older Samsung plasma (PN50B860) with the 51". I'm already a believer in the plasma master race, but what kind of PQ boost am I looking at here?
I replaced a 50B850 with a 60F8500. Certainly the F8500 has far better black levels and more 'pop'. I am continually amazed by the PQ. Caveats:
  • I am not a gamer
  • I had the F8500 professionally calibrated whereas the B850 was calibrated by eye using the Spears & Munsil disc.

Good luck!
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post #12315 of 12321 Old Today, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
Obviously you've never attended an ISF or THX video calibration certification course.
Oh no! what am i going to do? ISF and THX calibration certification course is everything when it comes to understanding picture quality even Sony swore by these standards while producing stellar reference level CRT's, i am guessing even Pioneer Elite Plasma solely depended upon the amazing THX certification.

You must be really knowledgeable to still keep arguing about a paid certification like THX which from from my experience means zilch having seen so many mediocre THX certified products.
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post #12316 of 12321 Old Today, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cronuskronos View Post
Oh no! what am i going to do? ISF and THX calibration certification course is everything when it comes to understanding picture quality even Sony swore by these standards while producing stellar reference level CRT's, i am guessing even Pioneer Elite Plasma solely depended upon the amazing THX certification.

You must be really knowledgeable to still keep arguing about a paid certification like THX which from from my experience means zilch having seen so many mediocre THX certified products.
A month old quote? Cocktail hour start early today?

Anything I stated about black level and contrast ratio is nothing new.

"Prominent among the attributes of a visual display are uniformity, Resolution, relative size (Aspect Ratio), and orientation (Front or Rear Projection. There is another variable to add to this list which can have such a profound effect on image quality that its importance arguably exceeds all of the other factors combined. This feature is called contrast."

Widescreen Review, Imaging Science Theater 2000, page 190


Like I said, nothing new.

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post #12317 of 12321 Old Today, 11:06 AM
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So is firmware 1200 available now? Turned on my LED this morning and a message came up saying it was available. Never checked the 8500.
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post #12318 of 12321 Old Today, 11:11 AM
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So is firmware 1200 available now? Turned on my LED this morning and a message came up saying it was available. Never checked the 8500.

Not officially. Seems some of the June sets have had it installed, but haven't seen anything on an official release as of yet.


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post #12319 of 12321 Old Today, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
See Ph8te's response above. The light output variation that I have seen on the F8500 may or may not be a limitation for a Day mode, depending on the environment and owner's tastes.

Yes, required settings also vary widely from set to set. There are some settings, like sharpness, that don't vary at all from one set to the next. Other settings, like CMS, brightness, contrast, etc vary somewhat but show strong family traits. Finally, you have the 2 and 10 point white balance controls that vary significantly from one set to the next. One interesting aspect of this is that even though CMS controls tend to be similar (though not identical) from set to set, unless the white balance is correct they will be thrown off. In other words, many of the controls are dependent on others being right in order for them to be right.
Something I see on my 64F8500 is there are times when I make an adjustment (don't recall exactly where other than its not in cell or contrast) and the peak brightness will drops. I then have to wable up/down cell, brightness, and other settings until I eventually find the one that unsticks it and returns peak brightness to where it should be. Its very much like something in the firmware isn't working right.

Have you come across this phenomenon?

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post #12320 of 12321 Old Today, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Something I see on my 64F8500 is there are times when I make an adjustment (don't recall exactly where other than its not in cell or contrast) and the peak brightness will drops. I then have to wable up/down cell, brightness, and other settings until I eventually find the one that unsticks it and returns peak brightness to where it should be. Its very much like something in the firmware isn't working right.

Have you come across this phenomenon?
Hmmm, no, can't say I have.
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post #12321 of 12321 Old Today, 01:05 PM
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I've seen that in the two PC modes. I haven't seen it in any others.
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