Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 416 - AVS Forum
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post #12451 of 12462 Old 09-01-2014, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
The pros at the VE shootout even stated the difference in black levels between the F8500 and the OLED were quite noticeable especially with low contrast or black test patterns.
Newbie question for those of us Late To The Party: Sure, you want blacks to be black, but is it THAT critical to watching most movies ? How many scenes are really impacted by a mediocre vs. an outstanding black ?

I think the standard when HDTV first came out was the tunnel scenes in "THE ROCK". I think they said that the people kind of bled into the walls if you didn't have good blacks on your set.

OK, I get that. But how long in most movies do you have that tough a contrast to see ?

And are deep blacks anywhere near as important when watching regular TV or sports, let alone the majority of movies which aren't like DEATHLY HALLOWS (never seen it) or The Batman DARK KNIGHT movies or THE ROCK ??

The only other advantage I can think of is this grainy-film appearance that some movies/TV shows appear in -- like "BATTLESTAR GALACTICA" a few years ago -- might need good blacks.

Don't get me wrong, I want good colors for all including black, but the obsession with super-perfect blacks relative to motion lag, response time, picture sharpness, etc., always baffled me.
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post #12452 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 03:25 AM
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Didn't a famous car designer (Shelby, iirc) say something to the effect of:

"I don't give a *multilple expletives* about whether a car can drive 170, 180, or 200. Just tell me how fast it gets from 1-100"

How well a TV moves from black to white is probably more important than how completely dark or light it can get.
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post #12453 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
Newbie question for those of us Late To The Party: Sure, you want blacks to be black, but is it THAT critical to watching most movies ? How many scenes are really impacted by a mediocre vs. an outstanding black ?

I think the standard when HDTV first came out was the tunnel scenes in "THE ROCK". I think they said that the people kind of bled into the walls if you didn't have good blacks on your set.

OK, I get that. But how long in most movies do you have that tough a contrast to see ?

And are deep blacks anywhere near as important when watching regular TV or sports, let alone the majority of movies which aren't like DEATHLY HALLOWS (never seen it) or The Batman DARK KNIGHT movies or THE ROCK ??

The only other advantage I can think of is this grainy-film appearance that some movies/TV shows appear in -- like "BATTLESTAR GALACTICA" a few years ago -- might need good blacks.

Don't get me wrong, I want good colors for all including black, but the obsession with super-perfect blacks relative to motion lag, response time, picture sharpness, etc., always baffled me.
All else being equal, better black levels contribute to a better overall picture. It's not just a matter of wanting actual blacks to look, well, black. Think of your display's ability to render black as the canvas upon which the rest of the picture is placed. The better the black level, the better the canvas.


In the real world, better MLL translates to better contrast, which allows for a more dimensional, natural, "3D" looking picture. The worse your black levels, the more washed out your picture will appear, even while displaying bright content. Obviously you want a well-balanced picture, but a display with perfect colors, motion, sharpness, etc, but a poor contrast ratio, is not going to look very impressive.
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post #12454 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Not trying to be funny, but have you tried changing the batteries in the remote? Weak batteries can sometimes cause remotes to act weird.
The actual TV remote is in a drawer, not sure if it even has batteries in it or not. I guess I'll check that tonight. I use a Harmony universal remote which I wouldn't expect that to happen with. Thanks.
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post #12455 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
Newbie question for those of us Late To The Party: Sure, you want blacks to be black, but is it THAT critical to watching most movies ? How many scenes are really impacted by a mediocre vs. an outstanding black ?

I think the standard when HDTV first came out was the tunnel scenes in "THE ROCK". I think they said that the people kind of bled into the walls if you didn't have good blacks on your set.

OK, I get that. But how long in most movies do you have that tough a contrast to see ?

And are deep blacks anywhere near as important when watching regular TV or sports, let alone the majority of movies which aren't like DEATHLY HALLOWS (never seen it) or The Batman DARK KNIGHT movies or THE ROCK ??

The only other advantage I can think of is this grainy-film appearance that some movies/TV shows appear in -- like "BATTLESTAR GALACTICA" a few years ago -- might need good blacks.

Don't get me wrong, I want good colors for all including black, but the obsession with super-perfect blacks relative to motion lag, response time, picture sharpness, etc., always baffled me.
personally, I hate seeing the tv. so I want blacks as deep as possible so that the image on screen is not framed by a dark grey screen.


but as for the image itself, I understand wanting better motion, but other than that, I think a lack of 'true black' is the biggest problem to fix, so that's why it gets the most attention.


I would say the ONLY content not severely affected by black levels is cartoons. everything else looks obviously different to me on a display with good black levels vs one with poor blacks.
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Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #12456 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 03:47 PM
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The VE Shootout is pretty cool, would you say its the top place to look for the best results, the "GOLD STANDARD"?

I see that the 64F8500 has won both 2013 and 2014 (the first TV EVER to do so). Pretty cool.

Any suggestions for the best calibrations for the 64F8500? bright and dark room as well as 3D. PC?

I just got my 64f8500 and it is now broke in and I am ready to start playing with the settings, any suggestions would be appreciated.
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post #12457 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CoCo Kawon View Post
The VE Shootout is pretty cool, would you say its the top place to look for the best results, the "GOLD STANDARD"?

I see that the 64F8500 has won both 2013 and 2014 (the first TV EVER to do so). Pretty cool.

Any suggestions for the best calibrations for the 64F8500? bright and dark room as well as 3D. PC?

I just got my 64f8500 and it is now broke in and I am ready to start playing with the settings, any suggestions would be appreciated.

All anyone's settings will do, is get you into the ballpark. Not necessarily into the game. Your lighting, decor, electronics, panel, etc, all affect the final outcome. Want the best out of your set, get in a good calibrator.
You can try the F8500 Settings Forum for some passes into the ballpark.

F8500 Recommended Settings Thread.....
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post #12458 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
All anyone's settings will do, is get you into the ballpark. Not necessarily into the game. Your lighting, decor, electronics, panel, etc, all affect the final outcome. Want the best out of your set, get in a good calibrator.
You can try the F8500 Settings Forum for some passes into the ballpark.

F8500 Recommended Settings Thread.....
When you say a "good calibrator" are you talking in terms of a person that is a calibrator by trader a calibrator as in equipment? Can you make a suggestion please?

I am a newbie, thanks for the help.
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post #12459 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM
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^^^Go to the Display Calibration thread. ^^^
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post #12460 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoCo Kawon View Post
The VE Shootout is pretty cool, would you say its the top place to look for the best results, the "GOLD STANDARD"?

I see that the 64F8500 has won both 2013 and 2014 (the first TV EVER to do so). Pretty cool.

Any suggestions for the best calibrations for the 64F8500? bright and dark room as well as 3D. PC?

I just got my 64f8500 and it is now broke in and I am ready to start playing with the settings, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post
All anyone's settings will do, is get you into the ballpark. Not necessarily into the game. Your lighting, decor, electronics, panel, etc, all affect the final outcome. Want the best out of your set, get in a good calibrator.
You can try the F8500 Settings Forum for some passes into the ballpark.

F8500 Recommended Settings Thread.....
yeah, i had a couple different settings plugged into mine that i got from that thread, both i thought looked really good. when i took measurements though, they were both WAY off, so there's really no way to just use somebody else's settings. i would say grab the test patterns so you can adjust brightness, contrast, tint, and color(probably don't need to do much with tint or color), turn the sharpness down to 0-10(based on your preference), and if you want to plug somebody else's 2pt/10pt/color space settings in, it's really just guess and check, at best.


i just did a 'calibration' with a new meter i bought, and the difference is pretty spectacular!

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #12461 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CoCo Kawon View Post
When you say a "good calibrator" are you talking in terms of a person that is a calibrator by trader a calibrator as in equipment? Can you make a suggestion please?

I am a newbie, thanks for the help.
i just bought an i1d3(look up x-rite display pro) and I'm super happy with it so far. i was hesitant to spend a lot of money, and it seemed like it was a good place to start. so far, i see no reason i personally need to go beyond. you should be able to get one for around 250 or less, and it's really easy to use with the free HCFR software. learning how to use your TV's controls however, can be a bit more challenging. I'd never done anything beyond what you can do by eye, so there was a lot of learning when it came to fixing gamma and greyscale, and i still haven't learned the CMS stuff yet.


if you're willing to spend an entire weekend to learn, and calibrate, this is a good option. for the price of a best buy calibration, you can get better results yourself, and you can do as many displays as you like. it's still not going to be as good as hiring a pro calibrator, but instead of just getting you 'into the ballpark', it'll get you into the game. a pro will be able to take it a step further though, more accurate meters, and a lot more experience are definitely needed to get that last 5% or so.


but from one calibration newbie to another, the I1D3 has been perfect for me so far. easy enough to use, and the results are noticeably better.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #12462 of 12462 Old Yesterday, 11:03 PM
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i just did a 'calibration' with a new meter i bought, and the difference is pretty spectacular!
Can you give us an example of how something improved 'spectacularly' with a calibration ?
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