Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Does anyone with these FBr or ABL or pop issues have a decent video camera so we can see these issues? I'm sure someone has an HD camera that can post a video.Even If the video camera isn't that good we should be able to see the issues If they are that bad.

if you see it, you will know. you don't need a video showing you.

if you don't see it, be happy and enjoy your tv.

edit: by 'you' I don't mean you smurfmlb smile.gif just everyone in general.
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post #1262 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jdl15 View Post

Hi everyone,


My first post ever, although I have been reading a lot eek.gif. I just happened to buy this beauty and I can tell you it had a definitely visible upgrade from my PS51D6900.


I like the looks so far and the images it produces are much more smoother and the brightness has noticably been increased.


There is just a small flaw which worries me a little bit:

My TV-cabinet is quite low so when I stand in my room I stand way over the TV by half a meter.

What I notice then, is that all colours seem to be vague and not as clear as when you sit on the couch. I thought this TV would have great viewing angles. But when you stand over the TV from about a distance of 2 meter (or 3) viewing angles really mess up image quality.


I think I'm going to buy a new and larger TV-cabinet:D



I hope anyone can shed his light or expertise on this, many thanks on advance!

Cheers!


Jan

how close are you standing to your tv?

that is the louvre filter. it reduces light reflection, esp. from above and below. the side effect is when you view it from below and above at close range, the picture changes.

if you like to stand up, you may need to stand farther back. or put the tv higher. but then, that may not be optimal for viewing sitting down.

I'm kind of worried about this myself. I like to stand or lie on the floor as much as sitting on the couch.
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post #1263 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

And it seems the same people no matter what's in front of them they find flaws. if you look hard for flaws you will always find them. And there are those who will never be happy I think it's because they spend 2K-3K expecting perfection and they don't find it.

Disagree. I also have a 111FD and and older Sony LCD ( can't remember model off top of my head). I spent a lot on one and not so much on the other. Both are pleasing to watch. Imperfections in an image are one thing...annoyances are another.
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post #1264 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

You could always purchse the equipment (or I have even heard possibly "rent it" and calibrate it yourself smile.gif That way you get to fiddle with the TV AND adjsut it to a picture you like.

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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Maybe you shouldn't minimize the learning curve for calibrating with meters. I've taught several people how to do it and afterwards let them borrow one of my inexpensive (expendable) meters to adjust their own TVs. Some (those with a technical background) picked it up in four or five hours. Others never did get to the point where they could even understand the basic process. For those that have a technical aptitude, it still takes about 100 hours minimum of hands-on work with the equipment to become comfortable with the technique.

Yes, you can rent a meter for about $100 a week. An entry level colorimeter will cost about $250. And don't forget about the required software.

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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

How did I minimize the learning curve? Since the person I was replying to enjoys doing the adjustments themselves I simply stated that they may enjoy actually calibrating themselves as well. I know there is a learning curve to the art of calibration and highly respect those that do it as a profession as well as hobby. If the poster was interested I would point them to the Calibration section of the forums as a start to get their toes wet with the information available. It's not for everyone and I understand that, but I dont see how the suggestions I made minimized any learning curve involved with learning how to use the equipment and do a basic calibration.



Jeez guy, lighten up. My post was not a personal attack on you. Jeez.

Larry
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post #1265 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

if you see it, you will know. you don't need a video showing you.

if you don't see it, be happy and enjoy your tv.

I don't see it on mine and I am not looking for it either so I am thoroughly enjoying my TV biggrin.gif, but for the people that are having these issues maybe it would be good to show others on here what they are talking about.

Actually, I have looked for it but haven't seen it wink.gif

My Plasma is a PN51F8500 former 5010fd 8G Kuro owner


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post #1266 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post



Jeez guy, lighten up. My post was not a personal attack on you. Jeez.

Larry

Larry everything is okaaayyyyy on this side wink.gif
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post #1267 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Godzilla1964 View Post

Might be a bit soon but has anybody started a "settings" spreadsheet yet?

Probably a bit soon as some of the owners have had thier set calibrated and out of respect to the calbrator probably shouldnt post settings unless given the OK......

For those doing things themselves I ahvent seen any postings as of yet what has worked best for people, I dont think enough owners have bought the set yet. I give it about a month or so and youll start seeing more and more posts on it...
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post #1268 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I ahvent seen a design center Magnolia, both of the Magnolia sections in the BBs close to me have "dedicated" sections in the "back" corner with dimmer lighting and a seperate room for audio....Of course they still have the TVs on eyemelt settings, but its a MUCH different feel than the "regular store"
There seem to be two types of Magnolia departments in BB since they closed down almost all of their stand alone Magnolia stores. The "Home Theater" department are the same as they were when Magnolia Audio-Video stores existed. The Magnolia Design Centers carry more high end equipment and are supposed to have the experience to design a home theater for you. Generally they seem to have more rooms. They carry higher end audio equipment, and have a front projection room.

Calibration Resources:

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post #1269 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:40 PM
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Here is a video i took with my iPhone. It has two distinct brightness increases towards the end. This is when the crowd is introduced into the screen and the ABL is calming down because the is more dark pixels therefore the white increases.


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post #1270 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:49 PM
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Maybe I'm missing it but is ABL an automatic dimming feature the reduces power? Is the F8500 an Energy Star rated TV? If not, why worry about energy conservation?
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post #1271 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

Here is a video i took with my iPhone. It has two distinct brightness increases towards the end. This is when the crowd is introduced into the screen and the ABL is calming down because the is more dark pixels therefore the white increases.
Watched it twice and saw nothing.
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post #1272 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

Here is a video i took with my iPhone. It has two distinct brightness increases towards the end. This is when the crowd is introduced into the screen and the ABL is calming down because the is more dark pixels therefore the white increases.



wow I really had to watch it like 5 times to see anything but looks great to me wink.gif

My Plasma is a PN51F8500 former 5010fd 8G Kuro owner


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post #1273 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Watched it twice and saw nothing.

Neither did I. Didn't even see the strobe light flashes from the photo cameras.

Larry
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post #1274 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

Here is a video i took with my iPhone. It has two distinct brightness increases towards the end. This is when the crowd is introduced into the screen and the ABL is calming down because the is more dark pixels therefore the white increases.

Maybe you can post what setting you have with that.

My Plasma is a PN51F8500 former 5010fd 8G Kuro owner


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post #1275 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:56 PM
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It it hard to notice if you don't watch closely. I am only posting this for everyone that watches hockey. I do not watch hockey and am not bothered at all by this. I only see it during hockey. Now that i know what I am looking for it is every time the camera pans to the goal and the audience is brought into the picture the whites get much brighter. It happens all throughout the game but can easily be ignored or missed.

This is a great set and probably handles ABL better than most other plasma's. Just want to post it for extremely sensitive viewers who watch hockey a lot.
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post #1276 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

Here is a video i took with my iPhone. It has two distinct brightness increases towards the end. This is when the crowd is introduced into the screen and the ABL is calming down because the is more dark pixels therefore the white increases.


Watched the video and can see the brightness pops at the end of the video. I am watching Dolphin Tale and have seen probably 10 instances of the ABL especially in a white background. It is clearly evident on my set and it is very annoying. I am going to do a picture reset and see if this fixes the issue.
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post #1277 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Maybe you can post what setting you have with that.

I reset all my picture settings to the default and I was watching in Movie mode. I am done using the TV for a while. I am running breakin slides currently.
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post #1278 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

It it hard to notice if you don't watch closely. I am only posting this for everyone that watches hockey. I do not watch hockey and am not bothered at all by this. I only see it during hockey. Now that i know what I am looking for it is every time the camera pans to the goal and the audience is brought into the picture the whites get much brighter. It happens all throughout the game but can easily be ignored or missed.

This is a great set and probably handles ABL better than most other plasma's. Just want to post it for extremely sensitive viewers who watch hockey a lot.
I have owned many plasma sets and never seen anything like this.
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post #1279 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

It it hard to notice if you don't watch closely. I am only posting this for everyone that watches hockey. I do not watch hockey and am not bothered at all by this. I only see it during hockey. Now that i know what I am looking for it is every time the camera pans to the goal and the audience is brought into the picture the whites get much brighter. It happens all throughout the game but can easily be ignored or missed.

This is a great set and probably handles ABL better than most other plasma's. Just want to post it for extremely sensitive viewers who watch hockey a lot.

It can be easily ignored???? not in my opinion!
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post #1280 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:01 PM
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I have owned many plasma sets and never seen anything like this.

Floridaman,

You are seeing it on movies also? I tested a few earlier but after the picture reset and changed to movie mode I could not see them during any movies. I will try again later tonight when it is really dark.
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post #1281 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:01 PM
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I have owned many plasma sets and never seen anything like this.

You must not have owned any recent Samsung plasma's then! wink.gif

Its really too bad because I really like their TV's otherwise
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post #1282 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:02 PM
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It can be easily ignored???? not in my opinion!

Definitely not if you are a big hockey fan. Like I said I only see this on Hockey. I don't watch Hockey, trying to get a game on TV in Florida is next to impossible unless you have a NHL package. biggrin.gif
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post #1283 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

Here is a video i took with my iPhone. It has two distinct brightness increases towards the end. This is when the crowd is introduced into the screen and the ABL is calming down because the is more dark pixels therefore the white increases.

I noticed the brightness jumps at the end. That is exactly what I saw with the E7000 I tried and the F8500 at Magnolia with the Planet Earth clip I mentioned.
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post #1284 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:03 PM
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The two "pops" are at the 7-second mark. There is about a 1/2 second time between each "pop".
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post #1285 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:08 PM
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Also guys, this TV is not calibrated. I will eventually be getting it calibrated and will report back if the brightness pops go away. Any recommendations for a calibrator in Central Florida?
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post #1286 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:08 PM
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Well I successfully got the Cal-Day and night modes activated and I can confirm that these settings DO NOT eliminate the brightness pops. They are still there. If I left the image dark on the default Cal-Day setting, they are less noticeable, but as soon as you brighten the picture, they are just as noticeable. So The Cal-Day does not get rid of the pops. At least this tv is going back, hope the ZT60 is very close to equal to the old Pioneer Kuro. That was the best tv I've ever owned.
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post #1287 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Agreed, the only people who returned their D8000 were probably just 50 to 100 on this forum. Lol. My girlfriend thought I was crazy at first when I was complaining of the pops on that unit as she didn't see them until I started replaying certain scenes then she caught them. Without me saying something, she would have never probably saw them... And that is the case with probably 95% or more of the overall viewing population.

True. I had to watch the video a few times before I saw the two pops. Also, keep in mind, this was a smartphone video, hardly a replacement for real-world viewing.
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post #1288 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Well I successfully got the Cal-Day and night modes activated and I can confirm that these settings DO NOT eliminate the brightness pops. They are still there. If I left the image dark on the default Cal-Day setting, they are less noticeable, but as soon as you brighten the picture, they are just as noticeable. So The Cal-Day does not get rid of the pops. At least this tv is going back, hope the ZT60 is very close to equal to the old Pioneer Kuro. That was the best tv I've ever owned.

disappointing.

looks like a Samsung firmware fix is needed to take care of this issue, at least for some panels.
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post #1289 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:20 PM
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Ahaa...The cell structure.
What did Samsung change?
It's safe to say they made them smaller and closer together that allows more cells and more density.
Did they change the shape from square to something else?

Not sure about the shape, but the change in the walls was very dramatic and never done before. It makes a lot of sense in that it allows so much more light.
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post #1290 of 12511 Old 04-05-2013, 05:31 PM
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At this point I am not sure if the upgraded software helped the problem or the reset of picture settings but it definitely got better. I do not watch hockey so I am good there and now on the movies I can not reproduce the problem. There is a little flicker in the same scenes I used to test on my D7000 so there is something happening but it is so much better than it ever was on my D7000. Hardly noticeable and I think its fixed when enabling some options. Just don't know which ones yet.

I plan to get this TV calibrated and hopefully it will alleviate any problems I see. I am being very picky because I have been following this thread since the beginning. This TV is by far the best picture quality I have even seen out of a Plasma or any other TV. The blacks are night and day better than the D7000 and the Whites are so bright. Even when watching a baseball game on Directv the jersey's actually look white. Also when rebooting the Mac Mini it always has a white screen which used to look grey but now it is all white.

So far I am very happy with this TV purchase. I hope it gets even better. It seems every TV has some issue and so far i can live with this TV's issues because I do not watch Hockey.

Dan

Dan, interestingly I just got back from dinner & BB with my wife. They had gotten the 64" F8500 in at this store, but only the BB loop was playing. So I watched it on the F8500 as my wife got more and more bored. I saw one pop during a golf clip in this loop and another during skiing. So I watched it again to be sure I saw it right, and both repeated. So, since I'm a firm believer in first ruling out content as the source, I sat back and watched it on a rather dim looking VT50. The golf clip came up and BAM, there it was, precisely the same 'pop' as was on the F8500. I realized that this was actually the camera's iris responding rather abruptly to a light change as the camera panned down from shade to the brightly lit grass. Very interesting. I tried to show my wife but she was in the 'let's go' mode.

I didn't get a chance to check out the other instance with the skiing clip, so I can't confirm if that too was source material. The Magnolia manager was an unusually knowledgeable guy and we talked video for quite awhile. He had not seen any pops that he could attribute to the display. His comment was "I've been salivating over this display since we mounted it". At some point I'll go back and check out that skiing clip.

But I'll tell you, between the 2 hours at Robert's VE store and today, I'm going a little batty over this popping thing. If I wasn't staring at these screens so unbelievably attentively, looking for this one issue, I don't know if I would ever have spotted anything.
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