Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 435 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13021 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
You'll find that many electronics not just your F8500 have processors that will get some weird code that will screw up things until you turn them off and unplug them. This is not uncommon in home theater any more than happens with computers, routers, printers, smart phones, etc.

In all honesty, sure it shouldn't happen but it does.
Yes, I've been in IT for 15 years and worked with electronics for more and I agree this is common to happen from time to time, but with this TV and AVR combo its happened a lot more than anything I've ever experienced in my life. I can't blame my Denon I can't blame my TV but one of them is to blame. I never experienced this before with the Denon and a difference LED Samsung I had. I don't know if I should change up the AVR or the TV to see if I can get away from this happening so much.

At the previous house, when the TV was just on a stand and I could easily get to back of it to unplug it, it wasn't as big a deal and happened more than a few times in a week. Its been very annoying.
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post #13022 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Your best option for quick power cycling is to plug it into a remote controlled switch like this.
This seems to be a not too bad idea, but annoyed that I have to consider it. I don't have a lot of room back behind there, but maybe it will work.
So this kind of device would actually "CUT" the power off event though the cable hasn't been removed? How many people have to use these for this issue, I guess its pretty common that this occurrence happens but I feel like for me its happening too often.
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post #13023 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisMc73 View Post
So this is a known issue with just this TV or this brand or all TVs? There is no fix? What's causing this? The breaker idea is not bad but still a PITA. Easier than getting behind the TV on the wall. Why is this acting this way!?
Your TV contains a computer that is continuously receiving power from your AC outlet. Any loss of power, even for 1/60th of a second, will cause computer operation failure. After the loss of power there can be a surge of very high voltage that will also cause computer failure. Unplugging and plugging the TV in again reboots the computer in the TV.

The fix for your TV is the same as for a desktop computer:
1) Absolute minimum protection is a surge protector that will cleanup power to the TV but not help with loss of power. It could be mounted behind the TV or at floor level, depending on your setup.

2) Battery backup UPS protects from both surges and loss of power. Could be mounted on a shelf built into the wall behind the TV or at floor level, depending on your setup. The size of the UPS required can be calculated with programs on the manufacturer's website.

Every piece of electronic equipment in my home is protected by one or the other. And, the whole house is protected by a, licensed electrician installed, surge protector in the main breaker box. My printers (3) and microwave have surge protectors and all the rest have UPS (9).

Clean power will extend the life of all your electronic equipment.

Last edited by JRWalker; 04-13-2015 at 09:51 AM.
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post #13024 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisMc73 View Post
I might have my HDMI cable plugged into the ARC port I don't recall, I'll have to look. I think it's in the 4th port which is yellow is that ARC? I don't use ARC intentionally though, so would moving to one of the other ports help? Again is this just Samsung or all TVs? I can't plug all devices directly into the TV unless I want cut a new holes in the wall to hide those cables. The current cables were pre wired in the wall so there are no cables hanging.
If you are not sending audio from tv back to avr via HDMI 3 (ARC) then it should not be an issue. The other issue you may have is the tv is looking for "stb" which is HDMI 1. So try using that port, or delete the label "stb" that the tv assigns HDMI 1.
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post #13025 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisMc73 View Post
I'm not very happy right now....

Then I went to turn on the AVR switched to the Set Top Box and the infamous No Signal screen...

I toyed around with different cables, to and from the box and AVR and components, tried every combo you can imagine, all of them. Ruled out the AVR by going straight from a component to the TV via the HDMI cable, nothing, tried lots of different cables in case I had some bad ones, nothing...

So this begs the question, whats causing this. If its the handshake stuff, why wouldn't a simple turn off the TV and back on fix it? Why is my only way to fix it, physically unplugging it from the wall or outlet on the back of the TV?

Please someone explain how I can avoid this.
Sorry to hear about this issue you're having....I've never run into this before with my A/V gear, but I've read that sometimes its the "order" with which you turn on your equipment, in addition to how long you wait for a piece of equipment to fully power up before turning on your next piece of equipment in your A/V chain that can have a big impact on hdmi handshaking issues. I always recommend turning the tv on last. Sources, such as blu-ray players, cable boxes, etc power up first....then your AVR...lastly, your display. Make sure each device boots/powers up fully before turning on next device. Glitches/residual voltages/garbage bits running thru the hdmi cables can hose up a piece of video equipment, which seems to be what's happening in your situation.
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post #13026 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
If you are not sending audio from tv back to avr via HDMI 3 (ARC) then it should not be an issue. The other issue you may have is the tv is looking for "stb" which is HDMI 1. So try using that port, or delete the label "stb" that the tv assigns HDMI 1.
When I go through the TV setup, with the 1 HDMI cable plugged in, it walks you through all the setup and who your cable provider is etc, and then in the end its showing AT&T (my TV service) on HDMI (whatever I'm plugged into) I can't remember if I'm in 1, 2, 3 or 4 right now, maybe the one on this TV that says ARC, I'll have to check. How do you delete the label and would I really want to?
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post #13027 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
Sorry to hear about this issue you're having....I've never run into this before with my A/V gear, but I've read that sometimes its the "order" with which you turn on your equipment, in addition to how long you wait for a piece of equipment to fully power up before turning on your next piece of equipment in your A/V chain that can have a big impact on hdmi handshaking issues. I always recommend turning the tv on last. Sources, such as blu-ray players, cable boxes, etc power up first....then your AVR...lastly, your display. Make sure each device boots/powers up fully before turning on next device. Glitches/residual voltages/garbage bits running thru the hdmi cables can hose up a piece of video equipment, which seems to be what's happening in your situation.
I can try this with the Harmony remote once I get everything plugged in and working again. I'm sure it will help with the number of occurrences, I'll try it.
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post #13028 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisMc73 View Post
When I go through the TV setup, with the 1 HDMI cable plugged in, it walks you through all the setup and who your cable provider is etc, and then in the end its showing AT&T (my TV service) on HDMI (whatever I'm plugged into) I can't remember if I'm in 1, 2, 3 or 4 right now, maybe the one on this TV that says ARC, I'll have to check. How do you delete the label and would I really want to?
If you are using HDMI 1, then don't delete the label. I misread and thought you were using only 1 HDMI cable connected to tv and that was via HDMI port 3, which also serves as the arc port. You should be able to use HDMI 3 with no problems. When you moved your tv, did you first unplug tv and then remove HDMI cables, and then after you re hung tv did you plug HDMI cable into tv and then plug in tv? Sometimes if you don't do that in that order, it can mess up HDMI handshakes.
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Last edited by wxman; 04-13-2015 at 11:13 AM.
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post #13029 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Your best option for quick power cycling is to plug it into a remote controlled switch like this.
Do you think my PN64F8500 which is hung with a tilt mount would have enough room for this Etekcity power cycle? Yours would work fine and allow the cable to dangle and probably fit well hidden behind the TV. But I like the look of this one even though I'll never see it, just wonder how thick it will make that area of the wall. Yours you linked is probably a better option.
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post #13030 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post
Your TV contains a computer that is continuously receiving power from your AC outlet. Any loss of power, even for 1/60th of a second, will cause computer operation failure. After the loss of power there can be a surge of very high voltage that will also cause computer failure. Unplugging and plugging the TV in again reboots the computer in the TV.

The fix for your TV is the same as for a desktop computer:
1) Absolute minimum protection is a surge protector that will cleanup power to the TV but not help with loss of power. It could be mounted behind the TV or at floor level, depending on your setup.

2) Battery backup UPS protects from both surges and loss of power. Could be mounted on a shelf built into the wall behind the TV or at floor level, depending on your setup. The size of the UPS required can be calculated with programs on the manufacturer's website.

Every piece of electronic equipment in my home is protected by one or the other. And, the whole house is protected by a, licensed electrician installed, surge protector in the main breaker box. My printers (3) and microwave have surge protectors and all the rest have UPS (9).

Clean power will extend the life of all your electronic equipment.
This reminds me I need to swap out the power outlet that is behind the TV with one that is a surge protected one and now maybe also allow me to cut the power with a remote, do they make such a thing as a power outlet that has surge protection and remote power?
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post #13031 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 11:26 AM
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If you are using HDMI 1, then don't delete the label. I misread and thought you were using only 1 HDMI cable connected to tv and that was via HDMI port 3, which also serves as the arc port. You should be able to use HDMI 3 with no problems. When you moved your tv, did you first unplug tv and then remove HDMI cables, and then after you re hung tv did you plug HDMI cable into tv and then plug in tv? Sometimes if you don't do that in that order, it can mess up HDMI handshakes.
Well we had the TV unplugged from everything for a while, as we were measuring the wall mount and putting it up. Then I plugged them both back in while it was on the ground before we lifted it up to the mount as I knew we wouldn't be able to reach behind it. I don't remember the exact order probably the power first then the HDMI into the 3rd slot, the one that is labeled with yellow/orange writing, is that the ARC port on this TV?

The thing is this happened quite a bit before when it was just on a TV stand and not hung on the wall. I just don't want the frequency of how often it happened before when on the stand, to be there now that its on the wall.

I agree with what everyone is saying about this situation and all the inputs are good. I wished I could just move all my HDMI inputs to the TV and not use HDMI switching with the AVR, but thats not the case and not ideal for me. Thats why I bought the AVR so I could do the HDMI switching. I feel like I'm the only one experiencing this but know that I'm not.

I guess a combo of getting the order of turn on/off with the remote in line and having the power remote on the back ready if it does it again will help me with this issue.

Is there a thread where people complain about this kind of issue a lot, I'd like to read and share my experiences.
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post #13032 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 11:50 AM
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Well we had the TV unplugged from everything for a while, as we were measuring the wall mount and putting it up. Then I plugged them both back in while it was on the ground before we lifted it up to the mount as I knew we wouldn't be able to reach behind it. I don't remember the exact order probably the power first then the HDMI into the 3rd slot, the one that is labeled with yellow/orange writing, is that the ARC port on this TV?

The thing is this happened quite a bit before when it was just on a TV stand and not hung on the wall. I just don't want the frequency of how often it happened before when on the stand, to be there now that its on the wall.

I agree with what everyone is saying about this situation and all the inputs are good. I wished I could just move all my HDMI inputs to the TV and not use HDMI switching with the AVR, but thats not the case and not ideal for me. Thats why I bought the AVR so I could do the HDMI switching. I feel like I'm the only one experiencing this but know that I'm not.

I guess a combo of getting the order of turn on/off with the remote in line and having the power remote on the back ready if it does it again will help me with this issue.

Is there a thread where people complain about this kind of issue a lot, I'd like to read and share my experiences.
Since you are only connecting one HDMI cable to tv, you should connect to HDMI 1 on tv, as the tv is looking for stb on startup, which is port 1. That's probably why you are getting handshake issues. If you don't want to tv to look for stb, you can try this.

ftp://andthatsjazz.org/pub/avshd709/RemoveSTB
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post #13033 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Since you are only connecting one HDMI cable to tv, you should connect to HDMI 1 on tv, as the tv is looking for stb on startup, which is port 1. That's probably why you are getting handshake issues. If you don't want to tv to look for stb, you can try this.

ftp://andthatsjazz.org/pub/avshd709/RemoveSTB
I'm not opposed to being on HDMI 1, I will move it tonight and see how it does, if that works I'll be very happy and send you your reward!
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post #13034 of 13046 Old 04-13-2015, 03:13 PM
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ChrisMC73,

I plugged in my PN60F8500 the first week of April 2013 and have not had to unplug since. That I believe is typical F8500 owner experience.

Go for the simplest and cheapest solution first.
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post #13035 of 13046 Old 04-14-2015, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Since you are only connecting one HDMI cable to tv, you should connect to HDMI 1 on tv, as the tv is looking for stb on startup, which is port 1. That's probably why you are getting handshake issues. If you don't want to tv to look for stb, you can try this.

ftp://andthatsjazz.org/pub/avshd709/RemoveSTB
So I was connected to HDMI 1 port already, I did't experience the issue yesterday, which is good.
I'll continue to use this until the issue shows up again. I'm not sure what if any good the steps in the link you sent will do, does it just remove my initial setup when I walked through the Samsung wizard to setup the set top box?

Quote:
On the included touchpad remote
- click the Source button on the top center
- swipe upwards on the touchpad to get to the 2 small icons on the top right of the TV screen
- swipe to the icon on the left 'Universal Remote Setup'
- In that menu, you can now Delete the STB
djbluemax1
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post #13036 of 13046 Old 04-14-2015, 01:59 PM
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So I was connected to HDMI 1 port already, I did't experience the issue yesterday, which is good.
I'll continue to use this until the issue shows up again. I'm not sure what if any good the steps in the link you sent will do, does it just remove my initial setup when I walked through the Samsung wizard to setup the set top box?
Don't bother doing the steps in the link if you connect the hdmi cable to port 1. If you chose not to use port 1, then I would give the link a try so the tv wasn't looking for a stb.
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post #13037 of 13046 Old 04-14-2015, 04:41 PM
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Don't bother doing the steps in the link if you connect the hdmi cable to port 1. If you chose not to use port 1, then I would give the link a try so the tv wasn't looking for a stb.

Ok makes sense, thanks!


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post #13038 of 13046 Old 04-16-2015, 09:27 AM
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Don't bother doing the steps in the link if you connect the hdmi cable to port 1. If you chose not to use port 1, then I would give the link a try so the tv wasn't looking for a stb.
I am testing my setup now powering on the TV last to see if its just a handshake issue. Pretty sure thats probably the issue I'm seeing.
Once I have more time to test this out, I'll know for sure. So far my tests point towards the hand shake issue, as I haven't had a problem since powering on the TV last.
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post #13039 of 13046 Old 04-16-2015, 10:27 AM
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I am testing my setup now powering on the TV last to see if its just a handshake issue. Pretty sure thats probably the issue I'm seeing.
Once I have more time to test this out, I'll know for sure. So far my tests point towards the hand shake issue, as I haven't had a problem since powering on the TV last.
Good to hear that you solved your handshake issue.
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post #13040 of 13046 Old 04-16-2015, 10:40 AM
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I am testing my setup now powering on the TV last to see if its just a handshake issue. Pretty sure thats probably the issue I'm seeing.
Once I have more time to test this out, I'll know for sure. So far my tests point towards the hand shake issue, as I haven't had a problem since powering on the TV last.
I have tried to read all your posts in this thread but may have missed some things.

Your problem seems to have started when you wall mounted the set after running with stand for a year. Have you confirmed that the in wall cables are good and support ARC (HDMI 1.4)?

You could drop external, known good HDMI 1.4 cable from the set to your equipment and test the port that worked when on stand. If that works then test ARC with ARC port and known good cables.

Once you get the configuration you want working with external, known good cables then try with in wall cables.

Good Luck!
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post #13041 of 13046 Old 04-16-2015, 11:07 AM
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I have tried to read all your posts in this thread but may have missed some things.

Your problem seems to have started when you wall mounted the set after running with stand for a year. Have you confirmed that the in wall cables are good and support ARC (HDMI 1.4)?

You could drop external, known good HDMI 1.4 cable from the set to your equipment and test the port that worked when on stand. If that works then test ARC with ARC port and known good cables.

Once you get the configuration you want working with external, known good cables then try with in wall cables.

Good Luck!
Actually this issue did occur a lot more before when the TV was on the stand, thats when it first appeared and I ran into the issue a lot.
I was able to easily reach behind the TV and unplug the power cord, which got annoying after like the 20th + time.
So it wasn't the just now because I hung the TV and used the builder HDMI cable in the wall. Now I don't know the rating on that one, I hope its a good rated one. So far its worked on the STB and Xbox gaming I've done since hanging it. I will test out the Blu Ray tonight and see if I see any issues with speed. I'd hope since the house was built just last year 2014, that the cable they used is a high speed one. The builder did have a A/V company install and run all the cable so lets hope they didn't mess that up. So far so good.

The post with my complaint happened as I was setting up all the new cables and after the TV was hung and I did use a high speed cable plugged directly into the AVR and still had the issue, that one time. The only time at the new house and the reason I posted this. So I don't think its related to that cable in the wall at all. Just yesterday I swapped out all my 3ft and 6ft HDMI cables that run from each component to the AVR with 1.5ft ones, since now they are all stacked really close to the AVR on their own shelves in the left side of my new TV stand.
I'm hoping those shorter and fast cables help with any handshake issues.

So for now I'm going to believe that my issue has been due to handshake and that I need to make sure the TV powers last as best as I can. I still will try to keep my firmware updated on TV and AVR and other components as well. Though that hasn't really had any affect on the situation. I don't expect it to in the future either.

If I come across any other revelations in this scenario, I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks all.
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post #13042 of 13046 Old 04-16-2015, 11:19 AM
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ChrisMc73, Be aware that HDMI cables shorter that 6' can introduce timing issues with some equipment (e.g., Darbee Darblet) and equipment combinations, because of the HDMI chips used in the equipment. Getting a setup working first with 6' cables can save a lot of trouble shooting time. After working with 6' cables, replace and test one at a time if you want shorter cables.

Last edited by JRWalker; 04-16-2015 at 11:24 AM.
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post #13043 of 13046 Old 04-16-2015, 11:23 AM
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...

Just yesterday I swapped out all my 3ft and 6ft HDMI cables that run from each component to the AVR with 1.5ft ones, since now they are all stacked really close to the AVR on their own shelves in the left side of my new TV stand.
I'm hoping those shorter and fast cables help with any handshake issues.

Thanks all.
Chris, be very careful with short (under 6') hdmi cables. I stated this in a reply earlier to you (you thanked me on my reply ) about shorter length hdmi cables. They can be every bit and sometimes more problematic than longer hdmi cables with regards to handshaking. I'm just making you aware of this....again!
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post #13044 of 13046 Old 04-16-2015, 11:24 AM
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ChrisMc73, Be aware that HDMI cables shorter that 6' can introduce timing issues with some equipment (e.g., Darbee Darblet) and equipment combinations, because of the HDMI chip used in the equipment. Getting a setup working first with 6' cables can save a lot of trouble shooting time.
I have a very simple setup no special equipment. Just the AT&T Uverse STB, Xbox 1, Samsung BluRay and a Apple TV 3. Simple.
So far the 1.5' cables haven't caused anything issues I'm aware of. The fit a lot better in my cabinet too.
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Since you are only connecting one HDMI cable to tv, you should connect to HDMI 1 on tv, as the tv is looking for stb on startup, which is port 1. That's probably why you are getting handshake issues. If you don't want to tv to look for stb, you can try this.

ftp://andthatsjazz.org/pub/avshd709/RemoveSTB
dude,

you rule, I have been trying to figure out how to stop that STB message, that did it.

thanks!!

now, if I can just figure out why it stopped connecting to the internet all the sudden, LOL. it connects to my router but says no internet connection. this just started out of no where

64PNF8500 Plasma, Yamama RX-V1900, BIC Acoustech 5.1
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Originally Posted by Breathing Borla View Post
dude,

you rule, I have been trying to figure out how to stop that STB message, that did it.

thanks!!

now, if I can just figure out why it stopped connecting to the internet all the sudden, LOL. it connects to my router but says no internet connection. this just started out of no where
Don't than me, thank WantsNWarrants for lot's of useful info. I did the easy part and posted his link. :-)
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