Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

Well I picked up my 51F8500 yesterday and all I can say is WOW... I meant to post my impressions yesterday but I've been totally engrossed watching it lol..
It's incredibly bright (I'd say as bright as a LED) and now I know what is meant when people describe Blacks as "inky", I really didn't think Blacks could ever wow me but WOW...
I still find myself tweaking the picture settings quite a bit but that normal for me with a new TV, funny thing is on my A850 I had the daytime settings done through Dynamic and night viewing settings in Movie but with this set I don't think Dynamic will ever be used, Movie and Standard are my new daytime/night time modes..

As for pops and fluctuations I haven't seen any and I watched ever type of content imaginable from Golf, Baseball, Hockey, HD through Comcast, Netflix through Smart and Argo on BR.. Yea I pretty much spend the whole afternoon, evening and night in front of this TV tongue.gif

I do want to send a big THANK YOU to Robert & Wendy at VE, it was such a total pleasure meeting them and dealing with real TV enthusiasts and knowledgeable people, much more enjoyable then big store "Sales" personnel. I'm SUPER happy to have purchased my TV from Robert and Wendy vs online or chain stores, sadly here in my in area the Best Buys, Walmarts and HH Greggs have killed all the family owned B&Ms here which I find truly sad.. I do know when its time to replace my F8500 I'll be taking another ride to VE.. biggrin.gif

Awesome! I had the same great experience with Robert and Wendy myself. I love this set!!
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post #1352 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 07:46 AM
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It's time to emphasize one clear point about the F8500...it offers the best picture quality of any tv...ever, at least at this moment in time. The only other tv that may rival it this year is the ZT60, it's the only other tv offering a unique panel design that may rival Samsung's super contrast panel. If removing the air layer from the plasma panel, as Panasonic has done with the ZT60, will result in as good, or an even better picture than the F8500 is unknown. The only information we have on that is from CES 2013 and I have not seen a single individual make a comparison between them, but...other than futuristic panels, the F8500 was the star of that show.

It's good to try to determine what issues the F8500 may have, but it's important not minimize the fact that it provides clarity and detail you have never seen before...a truly spectacular picture. Considering plasma picture quality has been pretty much stagnant for almost 10 years now, that's an incredibly wonderful feature : )
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post #1353 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

In the thread of F8000 I can understand the frustration about Flashlighting and clouding the users are concerned about as they really affect the watching experience in a dark room specially with dark materials and scenes, but sorry this brightness fluctuation here in this thread I'm not buying it. This is not a huge flaw. I don't even find it distracting even for those who will watch hockey.
This issue, is nothing compared to the issues of a "NON" local dimming LED........
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post #1354 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:05 AM
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I'm thinking of returning this set that I just bought 5 days ago. I've tried tweaking all the settings and I just can't get rid of these totally annoying flashes of light. These flashes mainly occur in bright scenes (and not just when the main on-screen colour is predominantly white either). I notice a lot of motion judder too.
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post #1355 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:11 AM
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I will give a little background info from what I have discovered on how Samsung panel drivers work that is relevant to both black and peak white level behavior being discussed. These are both low-level panel driving issues that are controlled from the TCON (timing) board, not the main board. Samsung chose a panel driving method that requires 2 priming pulses to avoid pixel misfires in high luminance scenes, this is why the black level floats by approximately a factor of 2. 1 pulse at low luminance, two at high. It appears the black optimizer is a switch in the timing board to set the low luminance priming to either 1 or 2 pulses, in this way you no longer have a floating black (it's always 2 pulses with the optimizer off) but you don't get the lowest blacks at low luminance.

At the high end you have discovered that there are occasional "hitches" in fast luminance changes, this is due to the ABL reaction circuitry reacting too quickly to certain types of scenes. The ABL circuit is designed to buffer the luminance throttling over a long enough time so as not to get any sudden frame to frame jumps and looks like it is not working exactly as expected in some examples cited above. The lower you set your peak luminance, the less evident it should be and I would it expect it to be generally less evident on the F series due to the increased efficiency (ABL is not driven as hard).

In either case do not expect any firmware changes to the timing board for the lifetime of the panel unless some more dramatic problem crops up.
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post #1356 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

it seems the same people no matter what's in front of them they find flaws. if you look hard for flaws you will always find them. And there are those who will never be happy I think it's because they spend 2K-3K expecting perfection and they don't find it.

First you are watching an iPhone recording on your monitor, hardly accurate to what the eyes see live on a big screen tv. Second, the person who recorded it is not the person who says he will return his tv, so you don't know if the problem is worse on his tv. Third, you watched 10 sec and declared it's no big deal. Try extrapolating that to two hours, then how many games a fan is going to watch a year.

You can say you don't think it will be a problem for you, or most people. That's fine. But don't dismiss the person who has a problem with it. Every one has their priority and what flaw they can tolerate. You may find something about this tv you can't live with. Does that mean you're being unreasonable and expecting perfection?
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post #1357 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:29 AM
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Holy cow, never realized how badly TVs needed calibrating.

Hey all, so I'm having Kevin Miller come calibrate my TV soon, but I needed to do something in the meantime as the whites were so yellow I was thinking of returning the TV thinking it was defective.
I used Kevin's settings from tweak tv (or as close to them as I could) and holy cow I'm so much happier with the TV, white is white, I couldn't believe how much better the set was with the white balance tweaking.

I really had to up the blue gain, it's at 38 to make white look white in movie mode with warm2 on. I can't wait to have Kevin tweak it even further.

Anyway, I have a whole new respect for calibration.
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post #1358 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:37 AM
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Ken,

Regarding the golf scene at MHT, it is the source. I saw it on all the sets I looked at. This included Plasma and LED.

TWD
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post #1359 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Monsterx View Post

Holy cow, never realized how badly TVs needed calibrating.

Hey all, so I'm having Kevin Miller come calibrate my TV soon, but I needed to do something in the meantime as the whites were so yellow I was thinking of returning the TV thinking it was defective.
I used Kevin's settings from tweak tv (or as close to them as I could) and holy cow I'm so much happier with the TV, white is white, I couldn't believe how much better the set was with the white balance tweaking.

I really had to up the blue gain, it's at 38 to make white look white in movie mode with warm2 on. I can't wait to have Kevin tweak it even further.

Anyway, I have a whole new respect for calibration.

Your probably used to a picture thats on the "cool" aka blue side of things. The Warm 1\2 settings are usually more accurate to the 6500 mark reference and at 1st these can look reddish\yellowish, give it tim though and allow yourself to become accustom to the picture and then go back and youll see aht what you were watching is "too blue" wink.gif ......This happens a lot when people get thier set calibrated or see the Warm 1/2 setting at 1st. After a week or two of watching content, it starts to look normal and tehn you go back and think how did I ever watcht eh picture before wink.gif Just be prepared for a picture tht is more correct but will look "off" at 1st, once you get it calibrated. give it time and allow yourself to get used to it...Then go back to what you would normally watch at and see the difference....

Of course in the end it all comes down to suer preference, the only "wrong" setting is the one you dont like smile.gif


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Originally Posted by TWD View Post

Ken,

Regarding the golf scene at MHT, it is the source. I saw it on all the sets I looked at. This included Plasma and LED.

yeah he went back and on further viewing discovered it was the feed not the TV smile.gif
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post #1360 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisinwpg View Post

I'm thinking of returning this set that I just bought 5 days ago. I've tried tweaking all the settings and I just can't get rid of these totally annoying flashes of light. These flashes mainly occur in bright scenes (and not just when the main on-screen colour is predominantly white either). I notice a lot of motion judder too.

Are you coming from an LCD? Have you tried the CS controls? You may be mroe sensitive to the fluctuations, and if you are then this may not be the set for you, as it can be lowered, but I dont think ever "totally" removed....
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

First you are watching an iPhone recording on your monitor, hardly accurate to what the eyes see live on a big screen tv. Second, the person who recorded it is not the person who says he will return his tv, so you don't know if the problem is worse on his tv. Third, you watched 10 sec and declared it's no big deal. Try extrapolating that to two hours, then how many games a fan is going to watch a year.

You can say you don't think it will be a problem for you, or most people. That's fine. But don't dismiss the person who has a problem with it. Every one has their priority and what flaw they can tolerate. You may find something about this tv you can't live with. Does that mean you're being unreasonable and expecting perfection?

I totally agree with you, everyone is sensitive to different things, for fluctuations if you are sensitive to them, this would be a MAJOR issue and one you couldnt get past. Not everyone is going to see it and even when they do, some will consider it a non factor while others will be forever bothered by it. There is no wrong or right viewpoint here. If you cant see them or are not bothered by them enjoy your set, if you are bothered by them, you may want to wait to see if there are settings that can get it to an acceptable level or choose a different TV..In the end the only opinion that matters is the one who is buying the set as they are the ones living with it and watching it.....
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post #1361 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I will give a little background info from what I have discovered on how Samsung panel drivers work that is relevant to both black and peak white level behavior being discussed. These are both low-level panel driving issues that are controlled from the TCON (timing) board, not the main board. Samsung chose a panel driving method that requires 2 priming pulses to avoid pixel misfires in high luminance scenes, this is why the black level floats by approximately a factor of 2. 1 pulse at low luminance, two at high. It appears the black optimizer is a switch in the timing board to set the low luminance priming to either 1 or 2 pulses, in this way you no longer have a floating black (it's always 2 pulses with the optimizer off) but you don't get the lowest blacks at low luminance.

At the high end you have discovered that there are occasional "hitches" in fast luminance changes, this is due to the ABL reaction circuitry reacting too quickly to certain types of scenes. The ABL circuit is designed to buffer the luminance throttling over a long enough time so as not to get any sudden frame to frame jumps and looks like it is not working exactly as expected in some examples cited above. The lower you set your peak luminance, the less evident it should be and I would it expect it to be generally less evident on the F series due to the increased efficiency (ABL is not driven as hard).

In either case do not expect any firmware changes to the timing board for the lifetime of the panel unless some more dramatic problem crops up.

zoyd thank you for the information very useful, is there any particular reason ir wouldnt\couldnt be fixed with a firmware update? forgive my ignorance on the subject. from the soudns of it, firmware updates sound like they can only be for the main board? Is the ABL buffer not large enough then? and is this a hardware or software based buffer....

Also, if I may ask how did you come across this information? smile.gif
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post #1362 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

+1
Exactly what I thought while watching the video several times.
I do not watch hockey but even if I did this so called pop looks non existent to me, I would not even notice it. I was thinking it was such a disaster while reading about it post after post.

Now we know about it, so please guys move on. No more talks about hockey. This is getting really boring

Oh I am so sorry to bore you... rolleyes.gif

I will talk about it as much as I want. Some people actually do watch hockey on here and some people are picky. But this really Isn't about looking for flaws. When this issue is bad enough it makes watching hockey impossible.

So yeah I am going to investigate and talk about the issue as much as I need to before I go and spend $3000 on a TV!

That is what these forums are for. If you don't like it just ignore it.

I appreciate all the effort that some of you have put into investigating this issue.
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post #1363 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Very simple, looking for an issue to hard ?

I don't think it was fatigue since every time we went back to the one clip that showed it, we didn't miss it. There were no other clips that showed it or had anything nearly as obvious. If we missed clips because the effect was so subtle, well, that's fine, we'd miss it during regular programming playing in real time.

I do agree that people shouldn't assume the manufacturer will fix an issue, it rarely happens with any manufacturer. Of course there's already been one software update for the 8500, so we can't rule it out either. But for those that are really sensitive to this issue and feel they can't live with it, look elsewhere. There are other really nice displays out there. They too have their shortcomings, but it gets down to what shortcomings you can live with and what PQ features you like. smile.gif
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post #1364 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Yes, that captures it but it is much worse and more noticeable in person (in my experience).

Maybe it's perception, but to my eyes the video conveyed precisely what Robert and I saw, no better, no worse.
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post #1365 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

zoyd thank you for the information very useful, is there any particular reason ir wouldnt\couldnt be fixed with a firmware update? forgive my ignorance on the subject. from the soudns of it, firmware updates sound like they can only be for the main board? Is the ABL buffer not large enough then? and is this a hardware or software based buffer....

Also, if I may ask how did you come across this information? smile.gif

By buffering I mean "smoothing out", if there is sudden drop or jump in power required, the ABL circuit is supposed to change luminance on a relatively slow time scale (a few seconds). It could be fixed with new timing board firmware but Samsung has only done this once to my knowledge with a user-based upgrade (D-series) as the upgrade process is more complicated and more prone to fail.

Research and testing.
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post #1366 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I will give a little background info from what I have discovered on how Samsung panel drivers work that is relevant to both black and peak white level behavior being discussed. These are both low-level panel driving issues that are controlled from the TCON (timing) board, not the main board. Samsung chose a panel driving method that requires 2 priming pulses to avoid pixel misfires in high luminance scenes, this is why the black level floats by approximately a factor of 2. 1 pulse at low luminance, two at high. It appears the black optimizer is a switch in the timing board to set the low luminance priming to either 1 or 2 pulses, in this way you no longer have a floating black (it's always 2 pulses with the optimizer off) but you don't get the lowest blacks at low luminance.

At the high end you have discovered that there are occasional "hitches" in fast luminance changes, this is due to the ABL reaction circuitry reacting too quickly to certain types of scenes. The ABL circuit is designed to buffer the luminance throttling over a long enough time so as not to get any sudden frame to frame jumps and looks like it is not working exactly as expected in some examples cited above. The lower you set your peak luminance, the less evident it should be and I would it expect it to be generally less evident on the F series due to the increased efficiency (ABL is not driven as hard).

In either case do not expect any firmware changes to the timing board for the lifetime of the panel unless some more dramatic problem crops up.

Thank you Zoyd!

So in lamens terms, We should not expect Samsung to do anything to fix these brightness fluctuations related to ABL that are happening with certain content (in particular hockey) ?

ANd in this case we should look for other TV options.
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post #1367 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

+1
Exactly what I thought while watching the video several times.
I do not watch hockey but even if I did this so called pop looks non existent to me, I would not even notice it. I was thinking it was such a disaster while reading about it post after post.

Now we know about it, so please guys move on. No more talks about hockey. This is getting really boring

I couldn't agree more Halimali. This so reminds me of the infamous 'cyan issue' with the Sharp Elite. Here was a stunning panel, with tremendous reviews and once the word of the cyan error got out (and I hold myself at least partly responsible for that), we had endless pages of the 'cyan error'. Endless. Never mind that no owner could actually see it or if they did see it, probably wouldn't even know they were seeing it. But this so distracted from the other superb qualities of that display, that it really got, as you put it, 'boring'.

The same is true here. Here is a stunning display, but we seem to be focusing on one issue, and one issue only. If this issue really bothers you, just get a different display. Go for a VT60, wait for the ZT60 or get some other nice panel. In 2013 there aren't a shortage of those. But the endless dwelling on this, I think we've beaten it to death. I'm really not sure what more can be said. Some see it, some don't, some see it only very occasionally.
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post #1368 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

By buffering I mean "smoothing out", if there is sudden drop or jump in power required, the ABL circuit is supposed to change luminance on a relatively slow time scale (a few seconds). It could be fixed with new timing board firmware but Samsung has only done this once to my knowledge with a user-based upgrade (D-series) as the upgrade process is more complicated and more prone to fail.

Research and testing.

I thought Samsung eliminated this issue with the 2012 series, but no?

I spent about four hours with my brother's F5300 last night looking hard for this issue with Blu-ray and a number of cable sources, but I found nothing (great display for the money by the way). It seems calibration plays a role as you alluded to with setting luminance levels.

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post #1369 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

I'm out in Saskatchewan. Looked at having an older set calibrated and all the names in Canada didn't make trips out here. I'm willing to try to activate these modes if I have detailed instructions to how to do so.

Micheal Chen is a THX/ISF calibrator he does make the odd trip out to Saskatchewan . He is based in Edmonton. Probably your best bet. His website is thelaservideoexperience.com, I think, just google it .
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post #1370 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

By buffering I mean "smoothing out", if there is sudden drop or jump in power required, the ABL circuit is supposed to change luminance on a relatively slow time scale (a few seconds). It could be fixed with new timing board firmware but Samsung has only done this once to my knowledge with a user-based upgrade (D-series) as the upgrade process is more complicated and more prone to fail.

Research and testing.

Thank you zoyd appreciate the information...TIme will only tell if they decide to fix it, and as always I would bet against them doing such a thing rather than bet for them doing it. The way it looks right now, personally I dont see it as a "must fix" situation for them since it affects a smaller group of people....Weirder things have happens so who knows wink.gif
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Originally Posted by wattheF View Post


Thank you Zoyd!

So in lamens terms, We should not expect Samsung to do anything to fix these brightness fluctuations related to ABL that are happening with certain content (in particular hockey) ?

ANd in this case we should look for other TV options.

I would never "expect" any company to fix anything reported here in the forums unless it turns out to be a "major" problem and right now this problem while major to some is not what I would call "major" in the larger sense of things. If you are sensitive to this issue then personally I would look at a differnt set (Panasonic) or LCD (which comes with its own demons)....either that or wait it out and see if this issue does get fixed...In the end you need to be happy and comfortable with the way the set performs smile.gif
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post #1371 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The method has not been released and if you are not familliar\comfortable with going into the Service Menu it is NOT something I would recommend doing as as mistake could brick you TV.......

EDIT:

I found out how to do it on the D7000\8000 and the F8000 they both look like the same method, but as I mentioned and other have, since you can brick your TV by doing something wrong, I am not going to post the instructions as it could lead to major trouble with an "oops" moment.....

+1
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post #1372 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by funkahdafi View Post

Hi,

I would like to talk about something other than brightness pops for a moment. I need some buying advice. Let me give you a short introduction to my current situation and where I want to go:

I've owned exactly one Plasma Panel in my life, I bought it back in 2006 or 2007 and yes, I still use it as my main TV. It's a Panasonic TH-50PZ700. I want to replace this TV and the only reason for that is that I want a larger TV. I always believed that plasma is the way to go and I already ordered the 64F8500. I am in Germany, the set won't be delivered before May. So in the meantime I stumbeled across a couple of reviews about the new Samsung LED F8000, and the reviews are quite good. Actually, even the black level is supposed to be very good for a LED. The prospect of having a 75 inch TV at my home is *very* tempting, to say the least.

What do you guys think? Should I go with a smaller 64 Plasma or a 75 inch LED? Look at my background, I am used to a very old Plasma TV and I am guessing any current high end TV will blow me away, no matter what screen tech I go with.

On the other hand, when I look at the comparison charts at http://www.displaywars.com/ then the step up from 50 inch (what I currently own) to 64 inch is much more dramatic then the difference between 64 inch and 75 inch.

I am really undecided right now.

Each tech has its pros & cons. I find motion judder on plasma worse than motion blurring on LED. I find viewing angle on LED far worse than on plasma. Brightness in general is much better on LED than plasma, but the F8500 is the first plasma to make that essentially a non-issue. I find sharpness of LED better than plasma, but again the F8500 has essentially eliminated that gap too. Many people find color more saturated on plasma than LED, but I haven't found that on a high quality LED.

There's no getting away from the attraction of a 75" TV as opposed to a 64-65" display. But remember the 75" is edge lit and although I suspect it's still very good, it won't be as good, in some respects, as a full array LED or plasma. So if it's pure PQ you're after, you're probably still better off with a smaller plasma or full array LED. As always, until you get a chance to audition the 75" display yourself, you'll never really know for certain. Even if you do, chances are you won't get to do it in a darkened environment since most retailers have store lighting that's much too bright to really assess some of the important PQ aspects of a display.
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post #1373 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:28 AM
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I couldn't agree more Halimali. This so reminds me of the infamous 'cyan issue' with the Sharp Elite. Here was a stunning panel, with tremendous reviews and once the word of the cyan error got out (and I hold myself at least partly responsible for that), we had endless pages of the 'cyan error'. Endless. Never mind that no owner could actually see it or if they did see it, probably wouldn't even know they were seeing it. But this so distracted from the other superb qualities of that display, that it really got, as you put it, 'boring'.

The same is true here. Here is a stunning display, but we seem to be focusing on one issue, and one issue only. If this issue really bothers you, just get a different display. Go for a VT60, wait for the ZT60 or get some other nice panel. In 2013 there aren't a shortage of those. But the endless dwelling on this, I think we've beaten it to death. I'm really not sure what more can be said. Some see it, some don't, some see it only very occasionally.

If these discussions didnt happen then these forums would be a lot quieter wink.gifbiggrin.gif This is what happens every year, a new panel comes out a problem is discovered then its "latched" on to and forever puts the panel in some type of purgatory biggrin.gif

I agree 100% with you that 2013 is shaping up to be a great year for Plasma owners hopefully everyone can find something that makes them happy regardles of the set the choose.
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post #1374 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

ken, or anybody can this be confirmed? (panel size mll) did kevin miller calibrate a 60" and 64" with different mll #'s? 51" lowest mll? guess I haven't seen this..

Airgas, I believe Kevin got a very slightly lower MLL for the 60". I don't think it would enough to really be seen. Certainly when I was at VE and we had both the 60 & 64 running the same BD, we saw absolutely no visible difference.
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post #1375 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

i agree...i'm one of the anal bunch, but after watching that video(yes saw the "pops" 1st try) if this is as bad as it gets the f8500 is one damn fine set that as soon as i sell my big 80" lcd has my name on it.

I can see the engraving, "Airgas1998". biggrin.gif
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post #1376 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I couldn't agree more Halimali. This so reminds me of the infamous 'cyan issue' with the Sharp Elite. Here was a stunning panel, with tremendous reviews and once the word of the cyan error got out (and I hold myself at least partly responsible for that), we had endless pages of the 'cyan error'. Endless. Never mind that no owner could actually see it or if they did see it, probably wouldn't even know they were seeing it. But this so distracted from the other superb qualities of that display, that it really got, as you put it, 'boring'.

The same is true here. Here is a stunning display, but we seem to be focusing on one issue, and one issue only. If this issue really bothers you, just get a different display. Go for a VT60, wait for the ZT60 or get some other nice panel. In 2013 there aren't a shortage of those. But the endless dwelling on this, I think we've beaten it to death. I'm really not sure what more can be said. Some see it, some don't, some see it only very occasionally.

Oh sure...now that you are sure the issue doesn't affect YOU, its time to move on right? rolleyes.gif

What a joke that Samsung can't figure out how to fix this simple issue. I'm done with them.
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post #1377 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I thought Samsung eliminated this issue with the 2012 series, but no?

I spent about four hours with my brother's F5300 last night looking hard for this issue with Blu-ray and a number of cable sources, but I found nothing (great display for the money by the way). It seems calibration plays a role as you alluded to with setting luminance levels.

the 2012 models from what I have read suffered something much much worse then what people are seeing here. of course we ahve differing reports and settigns that seeem to affect the severity of these events. Time will only tell how "serious" this issue really is, but if one is sensitive to this issue then I would avoid this set for now and start looking at another set.
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Each tech has its pros & cons. I find motion judder on plasma worse than motion blurring on LED. I find viewing angle on LED far worse than on plasma. Brightness in general is much better on LED than plasma, but the F8500 is the first plasma to make that essentially a non-issue. I find sharpness of LED better than plasma, but again the F8500 has essentially eliminated that gap too. Many people find color more saturated on plasma than LED, but I haven't found that on a high quality LED.

There's no getting away from the attraction of a 75" TV as opposed to a 64-65" display. But remember the 75" is edge lit and although I suspect it's still very good, it won't be as good, in some respects, as a full array LED or plasma. So if it's pure PQ you're after, you're probably still better off with a smaller plasma or full array LED. As always, until you get a chance to audition the 75" display yourself, you'll never really know for certain. Even if you do, chances are you won't get to do it in a darkened environment since most retailers have store lighting that's much too bright to really assess some of the important PQ aspects of a display.

+1 smile.gif
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post #1378 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

All this talk of pops, would this be a hardware limitation or software bug i.e. fixable in a firmware update?

I can't see anything described.

In theory yes, it should be able to be 'fixed' in a software update. It looks to be essentially an algorithm that tells the panel 'when you see this much brightness under these conditions, dim to this level'. Unless I'm not understanding how this works, it should be something that could be changed. All that would be needed is a smoother ramp up & down under certain situations. But since you can't see it in the video, don't worry about it. If you can't see it in that video, you won't see it in person IMO.
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post #1379 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:36 AM
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I have to smile to myself when people post that what ever they bought is the best car, tv, smarphone, ect. -- ever! I run into that on every car forum I've ever belonged to. Every subwoofer forum and so on. And then when I investigate what they owned prior to the "best" whatever -- it's usually something a few years old. Meaning just about anything with the latest tech will seem like the best ever.

Here's the deal about plasma -- the 9g and 9.5g Kuro was and is the best plasma ever. Backed by data and user reports.

Plasma is supposed to give a more film like experience which means to me -- softer and more natural. That has always been one of the big appeals of plasma over LCD. Samsung seems to have found a way to get LCD people excited about plasma but it's not the film like experience with a 3d perception that the Kuro gives.

I went to the Magnolia yesterday. The 8500 is physically impressive. I like the look of it. The guys there hadn't even fired it up. So we plugged it in, set it up and unfortunately they immediately the Mumford and Sons feed started running. Even with that feed I could see that it is bright and clear. I went into the menu and turned the optimizer on. Noticed that in movie mode they have contrast set at 100% by default.

I didn't go real deep into playing with it but it is indeed impressive. However I found ti to be too bright, too sharp, and some of the background images looked less than realistic to me. I went up & got got inches from the screen and saw in the black bars a lot of little popping flashing like molecule sized colored popcorn popping away. I'm not sure what that is and if it's anything to worry about but I looked at the black bars of my VT50 and saw no such activity.

The long and short of it that it is a wonderful TV and owners should be proud of their purchases -- but the Kuro hasn't been beat here imo -- unless you like LCD qualities in a TV.
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post #1380 of 12296 Old 04-06-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Does anyone use the OTA TV EPG guide? It is really sluggish slow when it looks for information but when it catches up its fast. When you change to smart hub or another input then go back to TV, the guide starts over again looking for information. Hopefully they update this also in the future to fix this. The guide is a nice feature for those that use OTA antenna.

Surfmlb, do you also use either a cable provider or satellite? If so, can't you use their guide info for the same channels? That would eliminate the lag. I know the guide on the 8500 is supposed to integrate very well with Directv. Not sure how that works, but that's what I've read.
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