Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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post #2251 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Doesn't happen on my end in the traps

Again 51".
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post #2252 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:07 PM
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This may be a long shot, but has anyone tried duplicating the brightness pops in Vivid (or whatever they call torch mode)? or enabled store/demo mode and looked for them? I suspect if there were an internal setting that could smooth or limit the ABL that either of those two pre built in modes would be utilizing it.
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post #2253 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

well if you like 20ftl more power to ya.biggrin.gif
Ok...I understand what you mean now....of course...lol. I thought you were implying that the pops wouldn't go away if I lowered my contrast. I upped my contrast to 60, and I still don't see the fluctuations.....going to 70 now...
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post #2254 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Again 51".

only case where smaller is better! lol

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post #2255 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Ok...I understand what you mean now....of course...lol. I thought you were implying that the pops wouldn't go away if I lowered my contrast. I upped my contrast to 60, and I still don't see the fluctuations.....going to 70 now...

For me fluctuations came back when contrast reached about 75 or higher.

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post #2256 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

only case where smaller is better! lol

only case where that's NOT what she said...eek.gif

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post #2257 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

only case where smaller is better! lol

Touché my friend, touché.
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post #2258 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Come on guys.....I'm watching the hockey game too right now with my 51" 8500.....You can definitely see the brightness fluctuations....look carefully!! If you can't see the ice get brighter, there's something wrong with your eyes....lol!

It's amazing telling us you think something is wrong with our eyes next you'll say there is something wrong with my ears because my TV doesn't Buzz

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post #2259 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

For me fluctuations came back when contrast reached about 75 or higher.
Yes!!! We have agreement! Same thing for me....i started seeing the fluctuations with contrast set to 75 or higher! Nice!!
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post #2260 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

It's amazing telling us you think something is wrong with our eyes next you'll say there is something wrong with my ears because my TV doesn't Buzz
I can't hear buzzing on my new 8500 either, except when I put my ear to the upper left corner of the display. The slight buzz sound is coming from the air vents on the top left back of the tv. My ears are super sensitive.
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post #2261 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

only case where that's NOT what she said...eek.gif

lol exactly! wink.gif and im a she! hence the word only!

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post #2262 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

If you watch a lot of Hockey it would be a major issue no? wink.gif

Also regardless of settings Thelt may just have a defective set, sometimes however you get such a bad taste that you dont even want to take a chance with the next one......I belive Thelt was eeing it in more than just hockey, which leads me to believe that it was either settings or a defective set....but if he is ultra sensitive to this issue then it may just be the wrong set for him.....

JMU woosaahhhhhh I know youa re getting worried wink.gif this is what happens when new sets come out. There are a number of people who still ahve and enjoy thier sets, of course they dont post as much AND the problems wil always outweigh them since people are trying to figure out whats wrong and help the person fix if possible the issues that they are having
There have been enough reports of the brightness pops to conclude that the sets aren't defective IMO. My 64F8500 experiences the issue on content other than hockey and clearly the picture pops twice and gets brighter during each pop. It usually only happens in a background of a sky or a white background. It is a curious phenomena as I have yet to see it on a blu ray which would lead you to think it is related to the content from the provider. Regardless I don't like it but am managing to live with it and in time will hopefully forget it is there. It also appears the euro version of the VT does the same thing. Will the NA model have the same issue, we should know soon enough.
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post #2263 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

For me fluctuations came back when contrast reached about 75 or higher.

Good Job! You figured out the secret code to this problem. I can confirm. Brightness at 75 and no fluctuations. I feel like this should be in a review or some place where people can find it easily.
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post #2264 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Come on guys.....I'm watching the hockey game too right now with my 51" 8500.....You can definitely see the brightness fluctuations....look carefully!! If you can't see the ice get brighter, there's something wrong with your eyes....lol!
DLP rainbows all over again. eek.gif

I know you're joking. biggrin.gif

???
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post #2265 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Good Job! You figured out the secret code to this problem. I can confirm. Brightness at 75 and no fluctuations. I feel like this should be in a review or some place where people can find it easily.
Okay!! That's three owners now that can confirm this!! Anyone else??
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post #2266 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

There have been enough reports of the brightness pops to conclude that the sets aren't defective IMO. My 64F8500 experiences the issue on content other than hockey and clearly the picture pops twice and gets brighter during each pop. It usually only happens in a background of a sky or a white background. It is a curious phenomena as I have yet to see it on a blu ray which would lead you to think it is related to the content from the provider. Regardless I don't like it but am managing to live with it and in time will hopefully forget it is there. It also appears the euro version of the VT does the same thing. Will the NA model have the same issue, we should know soon enough.

have there been enough? We have a very small sample of a sub smaple here at AVS and ANY issue is going to look bigger than it may actually be.We have some people say they see it, some people who say they dont....We have variying reports of it occuring on some content but not others......To me right now there is no conclusive evience either way. We KNOW it happens, we jsut ahvent found the trigger as of yet, which is what we are trying to do via testing.....
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post #2267 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Thanks for the clarification. Interesting that we don't notice the brightness reduction fluctuations.

Totally agree with this. It seems every time I've seen it, it's just a ramp up in brightness. I've yet to see anything that looks like a 2-step ramp down in brightness. Any owners agree with what Dan and I are saying or are you guys seeing a 2-step ramp down?
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post #2268 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

So far the described behavior is consistent with the measured response of the E-series, more jagged response going down the APL curve than up.

Zoyd, but that's just it. The curve is implying precisely the opposite of what we're seeing. The curve implies a ragged step down in brightness and a relatively smooth ramp up in brightness. As Dan and I have suggested, we don't see any particular issue with dimming, but it's a 2-step 'jagged' response up in brightness. IOW, where you'd think you'd see a reduction in brightness, you actually get an increase. Very different behavior IMO than a typical ABL. In fact, I just can't recall seeing a dimming of the picture regardless of content, just a brightening that constitutes the 'popping' on the 8500.
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post #2269 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Totally agree with this. It seems every time I've seen it, it's just a ramp up in brightness. I've yet to see anything that looks like a 2-step ramp down in brightness. Any owners agree with what Dan and I are saying or are you guys seeing a 2-step ramp down?

what i saw was a barely noticeable one step down... very very subtle... so not really sure if it was abl or not. big help i know wink.gif

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post #2270 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:49 PM
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Read the entire page 76 of threads guys.....contrast adjustment is the trigger for the brightness pops. Contrast below 75, brightness pops are gone...above 75, they're back....So far, 3 of us have confirmed.....Looking for more to verify.....
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post #2271 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Zoyd, but that's just it. The curve is implying precisely the opposite of what we're seeing. The curve implies a ragged step down in brightness and a relatively smooth ramp up in brightness. As Dan and I have suggested, we don't see any particular issue with dimming, but it's a 2-step 'jagged' response up in brightness. IOW, where you'd think you'd see a reduction in brightness, you actually get an increase. Very different behavior IMO than a typical ABL. In fact, I just can't recall seeing a dimming of the picture regardless of content, just a brightening that constitutes the 'popping' on the 8500.

Ken, we have figured out it's the contrast setting. >75 contrast = 2 step brightness pop.
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post #2272 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SJA05 View Post


I definitely had it, but it is completely gone, and I have updated my firmware.

Now that would be great, but I seem to recall those who did the upgrade still were seeing the popping. But wow, what a nice thought...and logical. smile.gif
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post #2273 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

what i saw was a barely noticeable one step down... very very subtle... so not really sure if it was abl or not. big help i know wink.gif

and that sounds like ABL functioning as it should wink.gif
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post #2274 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SJA05 View Post

My recollection is that it rebooted once.

As far as sensitivity to the phenomenon, when I had it is was very obvious (my wife also remarked about it), and I remember thinking - I can't live with this. The fluctuations were not just on hockey, they were on sitcoms like Big Bang Theory, etc. With my current setup, I have watched a number of hockey games to see if I could detect the fluctuations anymore (including Toronto/New York and Boston/New Jersey last night). In the Boston/New Jersey game I noticed more strobe flashes than in the Toronto/New York game, plus it seemed a little over-exposed on my feed, but in neither case did I notice what I saw before.

I also wrote down my settings, for what it's worth:

Picture
Picture Mode - Movie
Cell Light - 20
Contrast - 70
Brightness - 54
Sharpness - 0
Color - 50
Tint - G50 - R50
Picture Size - Screen Fit
PIP - Off
Advanced Settings
Dynamic Contrast - Off
Black Temp - Off
Flesh Tone - 0
RGB Mode - Off
Color Space - Auto
Gamma - 0


Picture Options
Color Tone - Warm 2
Digital Clear View - Off
MPEG Noise Filter - Off
HDMI Black Level - Normal
Motion Judder Canceller - Off
Black Optimizer - Dark Room
System
Eco Solution

Energy Saving - Off
Eco Sensor - Off
No Signal Power off - Off
Auto Power Off - Off



SJA05, just to rule out one variable, when you got the upgrade, were your settings different than what you've posted here? IOW could a change in your settings be responsible for the improvement or are you sure it was just the upgrade that did it?
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post #2275 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 04:00 PM
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BTW this thread moves at the spead of light, you may be responding to something before you know it, youre a page behind....
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post #2276 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

and that sounds like ABL functioning as it should wink.gif

sweet! good to know... i would have totally missed it if i hadn't been seriously concentrating on looking for it

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post #2277 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 04:05 PM
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Ken,

One of the first things I did was upgrade the firmware - so the fluctuations were there post update. I'm sure I can reproduce them if I lower the cell light or up the contrast past 75. I will confirm when I get home.
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post #2278 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pitchman View Post

Thanks so much for sharing this! It is exactly the information I was looking for. There is one more thing I'd like to know, and that is what size screen ES7500 are you comparing F8500 to? Some folks have mentioned that the 3D performance on the ES7500 & ES8000 LED's varies by screen size.

Pitchman,

The E7500 was 60", F8500 64".
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post #2279 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Zoyd, but that's just it. The curve is implying precisely the opposite of what we're seeing. The curve implies a ragged step down in brightness and a relatively smooth ramp up in brightness. As Dan and I have suggested, we don't see any particular issue with dimming, but it's a 2-step 'jagged' response up in brightness. IOW, where you'd think you'd see a reduction in brightness, you actually get an increase. Very different behavior IMO than a typical ABL. In fact, I just can't recall seeing a dimming of the picture regardless of content, just a brightening that constitutes the 'popping' on the 8500.

I concur. The most crazy and obvious examples I've seen of this are in the opening of Prometheus (and then not again in rest of movie). At one point it flickers back and forth on the water. Looking for someone else to view what I've seen.

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post #2280 of 12272 Old 04-11-2013, 04:11 PM
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If what you guys are saying is true -- Contrast at 70 to 75 eliminates the fluctuations -- the 10 point grayscale controls will be difficult to use for a true calibration. Historically for Samsungs, at that Contrast setting only about 6 to 8 of the 10 point adjustments are useable. Also, at those Contrast settings, it becomes difficult to get the colors calibrated properly.

That being said, off hand I can't see any reason why the lower Contrast would interact with the screen driving logic to eliminate the fluctuations.

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