Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 88 - AVS Forum
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post #2611 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I don't know so that's why I asked.
Who said anything about "bragging rights"? If the ST60 is a better value, then why the rush to get the first plasma o ship? If the VT60 is flat out better all-around and for a similar price, then why not wait a few weeks? For those who want the VERY best, then the ZT60 is only a few months down the line.

If you have a bright room, right now the F8500 is the best set to get. It melds the worlds of LCD and Plasma very well........Not everyone has a batcave or is able to control the light in thier room....we are talking hypotheticals in regards to the VT and ZT which is something I dont deal with...... The Zt is due out in Jue and for some in August...Thats late in teh cycle and if you are looking now then August wouldnt due heck even June is pushing it.....

Ill put it this way let say you wait, then if you wait until August its only ~4 months until CES 2014 and the new crop of sets where something new could be "crowned king" if you keep waiting forever then youll never buy a TV........

Lets not also forget any problems or issues that will crop up with the VT\ZT once you start pushing into late summer early fall its not "a few months" if you dont ahve one or you like the F8500 and its perfect for you then why am I going to wait until May\June\August????

Not everyone needs the "top rated" TV they only need the best TV for them....there are a ton of reasons why you wouldnt wait.....
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post #2612 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

I've had this set for two days now and I am happy to say that I have absolutely no complaints about the PQ so far. I really can't wait until more people start posting their settings (preferably for the 60 inch) in the other thread so I can try to improve the PQ even more. Once I give it a few months I will probably try to see if I can convince the wife to let me have Chad B or someone come out and calibrate it for me.

The only complaints I have about the entire set:

a) The remote - I get what Samsung was trying to do but the remote is such a nightmare to use compared to the standard remote that comes with most sets. I'm lucky that the Magnolia guy didn't care about taking the remote with him when they took my D series so I have a fully functional remote with all of the buttons. I'm still not sure how you do some of the basic functions with the included remote.

b) Stand functionality - I was surprised when I realized that I really do like how the stand looks. I absolutely hated the look when I first saw the pictures a few months back but it really does look sharp. However, I'm not sure why Samsung would take away one of the best things about their previous stands - swivel. I found this to be very useful and will probably have to consider mounting in the future to try to get some of that functionality back.


I'm happy to say that the picture is very stable on my set (especially compared to my D series) and I am very impressed with this effort from Samsung.

I agree about the stand, swivel stand is more practical than this one. Now you cannot place your center speaker in front of the TV too as the stand is very low

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post #2613 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 07:51 AM
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Speaking of IR which is simply not an issue in which I have seen. I would deal with "pops" any day of the week over worrying about IR. every single Panasonic pdp that I have seen had at least some sort of it. this is one area that Samsung has controlled very well. I remember Ken and Rogo going at it and wanted to jump in, but it wasn't my place to do so. Rogo who I respect on this forum is simply wrong if he thinks it really is a vast few of Panasonic owners who don't have some issue with IR. I'm talking about the 2012 series, not past displays.

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post #2614 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I don't know so that's why I asked.
Who said anything about "bragging rights"? If the ST60 is a better value, then why the rush to get the first plasma o ship? If the VT60 is flat out better all-around and for a similar price, then why not wait a few weeks? For those who want the VERY best, then the ZT60 is only a few months down the line.

Because LED people who want to try plasma will find Samsung's model way more appealing than Panasonic.
Panasonic plasma is about blacker. Samsung is about brighter.

I don't like dim looking plasma TVs. So no Panasonic for me

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post #2615 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by koan View Post

Ah, a Panny fanboy. You've made a couple of assumptions there that the VT60 is flat out better all-around and the ZT60 will be the very best. You are probably correct at least on the latter, but let's wait for the direct comparison. Another reason to prefer the Samsung is that Samsung plasmas generally handle IR better.
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post #2616 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Well if you have a 51" that is probably why you don't see it. I have a 64" and it is all over the place on hockey and bright transitioning to dark content. I love everything about this TV except for this. I can never tell when the screen is dimming. Just when it "pops" in brightness. If Samsung could figure out how to make it look more natural I would be happy. Which brings me to my next question.

Does this type of transition even exist on a 64" or 65" TV? Will I be able to watch hockey and other bright content on a plasma tv without the pop? Can the ABL activation and deactivation ever look natural?

Again, thanks for the input and dealing with someone who has never owned a plasma.

The mroe people that call up and report the issue the mroe likely Samsung is to "fix" it IF it is fixable......I would never count on a manufacturer to fix any problems found in these forums, thats jsut me though. Could they "fix" it, possibly, will they? no one knows.......
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post #2617 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The mroe people that call up and report the issue the mroe likely Samsung is to "fix" it IF it is fixable......I would never count on a manufacturer to fix any problems found in these forums, thats jsut me though. Could they "fix" it, possibly, will they? no one knows.......

Thanks Ph8te. Any suggestions as far as my ABL natural transition question?
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post #2618 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Well if you have a 51" that is probably why you don't see it. I have a 64" and it is all over the place on hockey and bright transitioning to dark content. I love everything about this TV except for this. I can never tell when the screen is dimming. Just when it "pops" in brightness. If Samsung could figure out how to make it look more natural I would be happy. Which brings me to my next question.

Does this type of transition even exist on a 64" or 65" TV? Will I be able to watch hockey and other bright content on a plasma tv without the pop? Can the ABL activation and deactivation ever look natural?

Again, thanks for the input and dealing with someone who has never owned a plasma.

Fwiw, I had the 65"vt50 for a month and never saw any pop. I didn't know what the heck people were talking about when they talked about FBr. Then I bought a Samsung plasma (64E533). Woot, there it is!
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post #2619 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Speaking of IR which is simply not an issue in which I have seen. I would deal with "pops" any day of the week over worrying about IR. every single Panasonic pdp that I have seen had at least some sort of it. this is one area that Samsung has controlled very well. I remember Ken and Rogo going at it and wanted to jump in, but it wasn't my place to do so. Rogo who I respect on this forum is simply wrong if he thinks it really is a vast few of Panasonic owners who don't have some issue with IR. I'm talking about the 2012 series, not past displays.

My 2011 ST30 has IR issues.

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post #2620 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Well if you have a 51" that is probably why you don't see it. I have a 64" and it is all over the place on hockey and bright transitioning to dark content. I love everything about this TV except for this. I can never tell when the screen is dimming. Just when it "pops" in brightness. If Samsung could figure out how to make it look more natural I would be happy. Which brings me to my next question.

Does this type of transition even exist on a 64" or 65" TV? Will I be able to watch hockey and other bright content on a plasma tv without the pop? Can the ABL activation and deactivation ever look natural?

Again, thanks for the input and dealing with someone who has never owned a plasma.

I have a 60" and the ABL "pops" for hockey on this set are much better than they were on my D series. Even during the time when I thought the D series was amazing (the months I got where the Fbr fix worked) the ABL was super noticeable on hockey games. I'm a huge hockey fan and initially they were an issue, but I soon adjusted to them and just focused on the action. Now that the effect is lessened (in my experience) on this latest panel, I am really enjoying the nice punchy picture that the hockey games have.

It's just weird because this effect was drastic on my D series, but I don't recall seeing this many people complaining about it during hockey.
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post #2621 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

Fwiw, I had the 65"vt50 for a month and never saw any pop. I didn't know what the heck people were talking about when they talked about FBr. Then I bought a Samsung plasma (64E533). Woot, there it is!

Thanks. Just wondering, did you ever watch hockey?
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post #2622 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Thanks Ph8te. Any suggestions as far as my ABL natural transition question?

The natural transition would most likely come in the same "fix" as at least form my udnerstanding on in the same thing. Its the way Samsug handles it that casues these "pops".....They are reacting too quickly which it should be a smooth\slower response.....this is just my humble opinion though...I never count on anyone to fix anything that is found, its all a matter of "how big" the issue turns out to be. As we can see here even with owners of this set we have varrying reports of how bothersome it is. Regardles of its bothersome you SHOULD report it so that it gets taken down. The more reports the mreo likely they will take it seriously.....
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post #2623 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

My 2011 ST30 has IR issues.

I understand, but the 12's appear to be vastly greater in reports of it.

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post #2624 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

I understand, but the 12's appear to be vastly greater in reports of it.

do you mean it was worse in 2012 models and do you know what IR is on the 2013's Panasonics

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post #2625 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 08:51 AM
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because i would and will put up with a little POP's but i can't put up with IR

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post #2626 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

do you mean it was worse in 2012 models and do you know what IR is on the 2013's Panasonics

Still too early for the 2013 Panasonics....From early reports however it seemss to be greatly reduced from what was reported last year...As with any issue though these forums tend to "magnify" any issue to many times greater than it actually may be....
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post #2627 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by koan View Post

Ah, a Panny fanboy. You've made a couple of assumptions there that the VT60 is flat out better all-around and the ZT60 will be the very best. You are probably correct at least on the latter, but let's wait for the direct comparison. Another reason to prefer the Samsung is that Samsung plasmas generally handle IR better.

Well, I did say "if". If I had any brand loyalty, then it would be to Samsung since I can't stand Apple and Sammy is fighting the good fight (I have a Galaxy S and a Galaxy Tab). I want either the very, very best panel PQ or, if not that, then the best value.

The bright room thing is beyond me. Doesn't anyone have blinds and/or drapes!? LOL. I do understand the point about the LCD (LED) folks trying out the new Sammy plasma, but again, why not wait to compare with the ST60 and VT60?

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post #2628 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Who said anything about "bragging rights"? If the ST60 is a better value, then why the rush to get the first plasma o ship? If the VT60 is flat out better all-around and for a similar price, then why not wait a few weeks? For those who want the VERY best, then the ZT60 is only a few months down the line.

Lots of assumptions here with no facts to back them up.

It's already been explained to you that some needed a display right away. Some are looking for brightness with the 8500 that any Panasonic is not likely to beat let alone match.

These seem pretty easy to understand as motivations to jump on the 8500 right away. If they don't apply to you, then wait, don't buy the Samsung. But I see no reason to second guess those that have already bought.
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post #2629 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:19 AM
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Well, I did say "if". If I had any brand loyalty, then it would be to Samsung since I can't stand Apple and Sammy is fighting the good fight (I have a Galaxy S and a Galaxy Tab). I want either the very, very best panel PQ or, if not that, then the best value.

The bright room thing is beyond me. Doesn't anyone have blinds and/or drapes!? LOL. I do understand the point about the LCD (LED) folks trying out the new Sammy plasma, but again, why not wait to compare with the ST60 and VT60?


Blinds dont always block out the light and as far as drapes go, that would be a big negative......That doesnt include the people who ahve bright rooms where blinds would be mroe expensive than the TV......If its beyond you then we cant help you think outside of the box......
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post #2630 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:22 AM
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My PN60F8500 arrived last week. The first night, before going to bed, I started break-in slides. After about an hour I got up and checked the set. The room felt warmer than usual. I ran my hand over the back of the set and found a very hot spot about a foot in diameter on the right back side in the unvented area. There was also a smaller not as hot spot on the left back side unvented area. I decided to stop the slides until I could improve the set’s cooling air flow. The rule of thumb for electronic components is that a 10° Celsius (18° Fahrenheit) increase in average operating temperature halves the life of the component.

The next day I purchased four Thermaltake Mobile Fan 12 External USB Cooling Fan 120mm AF0007 ( http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001625 ) and a Anker Uspeed USB 3.0 7 Port Hub + 1 Charging Port, with 12V 4A Power Adapter ( http://www.ianker.com/product/68UPHUB-B8U ) from Amazon . These fans are USB powered and have a speed control. The USB hub can power eight devices. I chose this model because of its 4 A Power Adapter.

Update 5/14/2013: Purchased Antec Bias Lighting for HDTV with 51.1-Inch Cable (HDTV BIAS LIGHTING) which uses USB port for power.

I already had one of these fans that I was using to exhaust my HL-T5689S DLP that was replaced with the PN60F8500. The individual fan specs are:

Max. Air Flow 47.28 CFM
Noise:
17 dBA at 1300 RPM
31 dBA at 3000 RPM

Combined the five fans at full speed should exhaust 236 CFM from the set. To mount the fans I removed the four screws that hold the stand and grills. Remounted the fan speed control bracket to the bottom right fan mounting hole with a twist tie. The power plug hung down from the right bottom of the fan. I wanted to temporarily mount the fans to find the best placement. It turned out that it was easy to get the twist ties thru the vent holes by bending the end of a tie back on itself about a eighth of an inch then poking that folded end into one of the holes. Crimping the paper on the tie made it easier to push into the hole. With a little twisting and pulling I could get the bent section to fold out and come out the hole below the entry hole. Unplugged the set during this operation because the ties contain metal wire. I used a fan grill to find the correct vent hole for the next tie. The fans come with two grills. Left the rear grill off the fan and used the flatter back grill on the front of the fan.

When mounted to exhaust air, the black fan hub is visible. If the colored side of the hub is visible then the fan is blowing air into the set and that is not good. Mounted two fans on the left and right vertical vented areas on the back of the set and one centered below the camera. I plugged the five fan’s USB plugs into the USB Port Hub. The AC plug for the Hub I plugged into the switched outlet on the back of my FiOS DVR. The fans will only run when the DVR is powered on.

Update 5/14/2013: Discovered that my DVR's switched outlet is turned off if its HDMI output is not received for an interval. Purchased from Amazon a ZuniDigital ZG7000B-15 7 Outlet Digital Smart Green Surge Protector with 1 Master, 4 Controlled, and 2 Constant outlets. Plugged the TV into the Master outlet and USB Hub into a Controlled outlet which is only on when TV is on.
My controlled devices are:
Powered USB Hub
MoCA Router (Provides wired Internet connection for TV, Blu-ray player ,Video Game, and Receiver)
Video Game

The last two had been 24/7 power vampires.


The fan’s control knob index goes from low speed at 2 o’clock to high speed at 10 o’clock. I set the knobs to 6 o’clock and powered on the cold set to a news channel. After one hour, the only warm area on the back was below the two right side fans. There is a row of 9 capacitors located under the upper right vertical vent holes. Five of the nine caps were in the gap between the two fans and restricted air flow. Turned all the fans up to full speed. In an hour the warm area below the gap in the fans was noticeably cooler.

Because the slides make the set much hotter than normal use, I temporarily mounted a Thermaltake AF0064 80mm Sleeve Mobile fan III between the two right side 120mm fans. With all fans at full speed I started the http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2600_100#post_23205805 slides again. After 1 ½ hours there are no hot or even warm spots on the back of the set. After the 100 hours I will probably remove the 80 mm fan and set the other fans back to 6 o’clock. The two twist ties per fan hold each fan securely enough. I will not replace them.

Update 5/29/2013: Purchased an Extech 401012 Indoor/Outdoor Temperature Alarm to monitor my TV's temperature. It displays both the room temperature and temperature at a sensor on a 10' wire. Attached the remote sensor with a twist tie to the grill of the 120mm fan above the Main Board. After checking for several days, the fan exhaust temperature has always been less than 10° F above room temperature during normal viewing, with all fans set a 6 o'clock (half speed).

Did some testing with the break-in slides. After running break-in slides for one hour with fans off and remote sensor on horizontal vent holes directly above Main Board measured air temperature got up to 110.4° F.


This post is continued at http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/3200_100#post_23226905 , with information about monitoring TV's temperature with Extech 401012 Indoor/Outdoor Temperature Alarm http://www.extech.com/testequipment/product.asp?catid=67&prodid=392 .

Pictures

Heat sources in PNxxF8500 can be seen below.
Most of the heat seems to come from the CPU (covered by black heatsink) on the Main Board but the X-Main and Y-Main also produce heat.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

Five 120 mm fans installed:



Right side view of 120 mm and temporary 80 mm fans which cool the Main and X-Main boards:



USB Hub mounted with Velcro below center fan:



Extech 401012 Indoor/Outdoor Temperature Alarm a few minutes after turning on TV.
Remote sensor in fan exhaust stream:

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

Temperatures after running break-in slides for one hour with fans off and
remote sensor on horizontal vent holes directly above Main Board.
Highest observed temperature 110.4° F but picture blurred:

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
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post #2631 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:29 AM
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JR thats taking cooling to the extreeme wink.gif great write up though....not sure people will go to those measures however......
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post #2632 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Lots of assumptions here with no facts to back them up.

It's already been explained to you that some needed a display right away. Some are looking for brightness with the 8500 that any Panasonic is not likely to beat let alone match.

These seem pretty easy to understand as motivations to jump on the 8500 right away. If they don't apply to you, then wait, don't buy the Samsung. But I see no reason to second guess those that have already bought.
Lots of assumptions and no facts? You mean like the assumption where you mention ANY Panasonic is not likely to beat let alone match the brightness of the 8500? I don't think he was second guessing. He simply asked a question. I will make an assumption. The number of people that bought now because they actually needed a display is very very small. By needed I mean they had no display to watch and thus could not wait the few months mentioned. I assume that most, and I would fall in this category, And I think you do also Ken (just a observational guess on my part) simply had the itch and could not resist the urge to scratch it.
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post #2633 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Well, I did say "if". If I had any brand loyalty, then it would be to Samsung since I can't stand Apple and Sammy is fighting the good fight (I have a Galaxy S and a Galaxy Tab). I want either the very, very best panel PQ or, if not that, then the best value.

The bright room thing is beyond me. Doesn't anyone have blinds and/or drapes!? LOL. I do understand the point about the LCD (LED) folks trying out the new Sammy plasma, but again, why not wait to compare with the ST60 and VT60?

your "waiting" assumptions are odd to me. why should anybody buy anything right now. after all 2014 CES is only nine months around the corner. I do not need to wait for the Panasonic's as I have chosen a different path. believe it or not some of us on here are actually married, and have to compromise with the significant other.ie;leaving the drapes/blinds open during the day. when i'm watching normal broadcast other than a movie I have no need or desire to close off the ambient light. if I choose to watch a movie then yes shades would do their job. I guess what i'm getting at with you is your appearing to look at things through a very narrow point of view. please expand that opening a little bit, would you.smile.gif
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post #2634 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

The bright room thing is beyond me. Doesn't anyone have blinds and/or drapes!? LOL. I do understand the point about the LCD (LED) folks trying out the new Sammy plasma, but again, why not wait to compare with the ST60 and VT60?

I'll tell you why i chose the F8500 over the ST60 and not to wait for the VT60. The VT60 was an easy exclusion, as I dont need anything over 50", simple. F8500 over the ST was a harder decision, as my last two sets were Panasonic displays and the price of the ST60, but after comparing the two, to my eyes the F8500 looked significantly better, so i chose to pay the premium. And yes, i view it in an open concept living space, with plenty of light/windows, but I dont wish to close the drapes every time i want to watch tv, just a pain to do that on 4 separate windows.
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post #2635 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Rogo own a 65 inch VT50(2012 model) He says that he had tried very hard to generate an IR problem on it, and has not been able to make it do so. That is why anecdotal accounts should not be projected as applying for all units, regardless of which products or perceived problems one is talking about. I am sure that other owners probably see IR on their sets. In fact if IR was not something to be dealt with, Panasonic would not have included the Orbiter and Screenwash tools to deal with it.

point taken....but all you have to do is see the increased IR reports here, and come to the conclusion that it seems 12' Panasonic pdp's may be more prone than previous years.

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post #2636 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 09:58 AM
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Lots of assumptions and no facts? You mean like the assumption where you mention ANY Panasonic is not likely to beat let alone match the brightness of the 8500? I don't think he was second guessing. He simply asked a question. I will make an assumption. The number of people that bought now because they actually needed a display is very very small. By needed I mean they had no display to watch and thus could not wait the few months mentioned. I assume that most, and I would fall in this category, And I think you do also Ken (just a observational guess on my part) simply had the itch and could not resist the urge to scratch it.

Ken hasnt bought a set yet so you would assume wrong....hes waiting for the shootout where the VT and ZT go head to head asw well as the chance to see the sets properly calibrated........From what he has seen (and he has seen the ZT) he doesnt believe the F8500 will be beat as far as brightness goes, so his assumptions are based more on personal oberservations more than "I heard it from so and so).........I think Ken was right partially either they couldt or didnt want to wait to find out. TIs also possible that they went to see the set, liked it and bought it feeling no need to wait for months on a possible chance that another set may be better......

It just amazes me sometimes how one could question someone else's choice based on thier own train of thought. In the end it doesnt matter what or why they chose it. If they are happy then let them be happy.....
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post #2637 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

a couple observations on the "pops". hockey does appear to be the "be all, end all" nuisance to the ABL circuitry. even w/ my contrast at 74 I still see the two-step ramps. I avoid this by simply not watching hockey. sorry hockey fans not my cup of tea. now if I go back to the 95/20 settings I see it every now and then usually with commercials. even with a reduced contrast level to minimize the "pops" it is still plenty bright for my LR. I woke up this morning when it was still dark out, and turned on the display to watch some news and was nearly blinded. I thought maybe someone or something was showing me the stairway to heaven.biggrin.gif I still can't get over how intense this panel is.

So my friend, a figurative gun to your head, you need to choose between the Elite (even though you sold it) and the 8500. Which one...the clock is ticking. wink.gif
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post #2638 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 10:18 AM
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Generally speaking, what is the rationale behind buying the F8500 so early in the 2013 season? The VT60 and ZT60 are coming soon. The ST60 is getting some terrific reviews. Are most of you Samsung fans or otherwise anti-Panasonic? Just curious.

Why wait??? I was ready for a new 50" TV in Jan and wanted the best 50" period.. Originally I was going for the ST50 but the rumors started here about the ST60 and F8500 being released in March/April so I waited a few months for what we all know was going to be the 2 best 50" TVs which was the ST60 and F8500. I saw both and it was the F8500 hands down in every aspect from PQ to bells and whistles... Again money was not in the equation just the best TV with PQ as the #1 factor,.
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post #2639 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

So my friend, a figurative gun to your head, you need to choose between the Elite (even though you sold it) and the 8500. Which one...the clock is ticking. wink.gif

I'll have to get back to you on that one.rolleyes.gif

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post #2640 of 12337 Old 04-15-2013, 10:40 AM
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JR thats taking cooling to the extreeme wink.gif

Definitely extreme and loud at the 10 o’clock position setting. But effective and silent at 6 o’clock and below.
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