Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 89 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2641 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Blinds dont always block out the light and as far as drapes go, that would be a big negative......That doesnt include the people who ahve bright rooms where blinds would be mroe expensive than the TV......If its beyond you then we cant help you think outside of the box......

add me to that list of people who have bright rooms with no drapes. Also add me to the list who have had both an LCD and a Plasma in that room and enjoys the better PQ of the plasma in the daytime and wouldn't want it to get any brighter than its already capable of. CNET reviewers and other reviews seem to be perpetuating this 'daytime' phenomenon....maybe its a quest to be balanced by giving brightness to the LCD's and coming up with one scenario where it could be a factor, and maybe not, I really don't know. In any case, I ended up reading those reviews, trying the 'bright' lcd first and not appreciating the extra brightness even in the daytime. In fact, all settings seen in the owners thread reduced that out of the box brightness....which leads me to believe LCD's not only have tons of brightness, but more than most want even when you boil it all back down to personal preferences.
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post #2642 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 11:53 AM
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Lots of assumptions and no facts? You mean like the assumption where you mention ANY Panasonic is not likely to beat let alone match the brightness of the 8500? I don't think he was second guessing. He simply asked a question. I will make an assumption. The number of people that bought now because they actually needed a display is very very small. By needed I mean they had no display to watch and thus could not wait the few months mentioned. I assume that most, and I would fall in this category, And I think you do also Ken (just a observational guess on my part) simply had the itch and could not resist the urge to scratch it.

There is nothing that Panasonic has stated in literature, that even implies they will match the Samsung's brightness. There was nothing I gleaned from speaking to the Panasonic Rep at last week's show that would indicate they will match The Samsung's brightness. In fact, he wasn't even able to tell me how much brighter it would be than last year's model. Contrast this with Samsung's claim about improved brightness over last year's model that have certainly panned out.

As far as how many have bought because they needed something quickly, I don't know nor do you. But it's reasonable to assume some have.
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post #2643 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

add me to that list of people who have bright rooms with no drapes. Also add me to the list who have had both an LCD and a Plasma in that room and enjoys the better PQ of the plasma in the daytime and wouldn't want it to get any brighter than its already capable of. CNET reviewers and other reviews seem to be perpetuating this 'daytime' phenomenon....maybe its a quest to be balanced by giving brightness to the LCD's and coming up with one scenario where it could be a factor, and maybe not, I really don't know. In any case, I ended up reading those reviews, trying the 'bright' lcd first and not appreciating the extra brightness even in the daytime. In fact, all settings seen in the owners thread reduced that out of the box brightness....which leads me to believe LCD's not only have tons of brightness, but more than most want even when you boil it all back down to personal preferences.

Ita always personal preference, but Id rather have too much than not enough if the need arose...we are all looking for something different and its a great year for Plasma. I just dont the problem people are having with the "bright room" staement, if it wasnt an issue then it wouldnt be brought up. It may not be an issue for some people, but it is for others....In the end it doesnt matter what set someone chooses as long as they are happy with that choice.....
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post #2644 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

JR thats taking cooling to the extreeme wink.gif great write up though....not sure people will go to those measures however......
You think? wink.gif
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post #2645 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 12:14 PM
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Thanks. Just wondering, did you ever watch hockey?

No, but I don't want hockey on the Sammy, either, and I see lots of pops on tv programs and even some on blurays.

Btw, when I said "I didn't know what the heck people were talking about when they talked about FBr", I meant other models. I don't think that was a problem for the 2012 Panny.

I returned my vt50 because of noisy fans and I didn't like that fios hd didn't look so good on it. Blurays looked beautiful. It's an excellent tv but you really need to feed it pristine source. I also didn't like the dithering and pwm noise. Maybe I'd gotten used to the clean look of LCD.

The st60 is reportedly less noisy and sharper than the st50. Panny is said to have improved video processing. I want to see what the vt60 and zt60 (with the new bonded glass) do. It's almost certain they will be blacker but less bright than the f8500. I don't need it that bright (I was fine with the vt50 brightness), but I like a clean and sharp picture and hope Panny has improved there. If Samsung gets the FBr sorted out, then I'll go with the f8500. Otherwise...

The shootout can't get here soon enough for me.
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post #2646 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

There is nothing that Panasonic has stated in literature, that even implies they will match the Samsung's brightness. There was nothing I gleaned from speaking to the Panasonic Rep at last week's show that would indicate they will match The Samsung's brightness. In fact, he wasn't even able to tell me how much brighter it would be than last year's model. Contrast this with Samsung's claim about improved brightness over last year's model that have certainly panned out.

As far as how many have bought because they needed something quickly, I don't know nor do you. But it's reasonable to assume some have.

put me in that 'needed' category! my 4 yr old 42" lg lcd became unwatchable due to scrolling pink and green lines all over... chip going bad or?? whatever.
'needed' the brightness variable option... not for my current situation but to 'future proof' a move back to florida....
wanted best PQ available and most current tech in 50" range. this set is just amazing! i personally dont think anything else will be hands down leaps and bounds better... measurable incrementally maybe, but certainly not drastically...

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post #2647 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Speaking of IR which is simply not an issue in which I have seen. I would deal with "pops" any day of the week over worrying about IR. every single Panasonic pdp that I have seen had at least some sort of it. this is one area that Samsung has controlled very well. I remember Ken and Rogo going at it and wanted to jump in, but it wasn't my place to do so. Rogo who I respect on this forum is simply wrong if he thinks it really is a vast few of Panasonic owners who don't have some issue with IR. I'm talking about the 2012 series, not past displays.

Well, I never saw any IR on my vt50, and I did not baby that thing at all; I threw it into the deep end. OTOH, I've seen pops and I hate them. So to me IR is not a concern but pops is a big deal.

On the LCD forum, you see people agonizing over banding and flashlighting and what not, but then they swear they'll never go near any plasma because of the horrible IR.

We are a funny bunch.
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post #2648 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

My PN60F8500 arrived last week. The first night, before going to bed, I started D-Nice's slides. After about an hour I got up and checked the set. The room felt warmer than usual. I ran my hand over the back of the set and found a very hot spot about a foot in diameter on the right back side in the unvented area. There was also a smaller not as hot spot on the left back side unvented area. I decided to stop the slides until I could improve the set’s cooling air flow. The rule of thumb for electronic components is that a 10 degree Celsius (18 degree Fahrenheit) increase in average operating temperature halves the life of the component.

The next day I purchased four Thermaltake Mobile Fan 12 External USB Cooling Fan 120mm AF0007 ( http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001625 ) and a Anker Uspeed USB 3.0 7 Port Hub + 1 Charging Port, with 12V 4A Power Adapter ( http://www.ianker.com/product/68UPHUB-B8U ) from Amazon . These fans are USB powered and have a speed control. The USB hub can power eight devices. I chose this model because of its 4 A Power Adapter. I already had one of these fans that I was using to exhaust my HL-T5689S DLP that was replaced with the PN60F8500. The individual fan specs are:

Max. Air Flow 47.28 CFM

Noise:
17 dBA at 1300 RPM
31 dBA at 3000 RPM

Combined the five fans at full speed should exhaust 236 CFM from the set. To mount the fans I removed the four screws that hold the stand and grills. Remounted the fan speed control bracket to the bottom right fan mounting hole with a twist tie. The power plug hung down from the right bottom of the fan. I wanted to temporarily mount the fans to find the best placement. It turned out that it was easy to get the twist ties thru the vent holes by bending the end of a tie back on itself about a eighth of an inch then poking that folded end into one of the holes. Crimping the paper on the tie made it easier to push into the hole. With a little twisting and pulling I could get the bent section to fold out and come out the hole below the entry hole. Unplugged the set during this operation because the ties contain metal wire. I used a fan grill to find the correct vent hole for the next tie. The fans come with two grills. Left the rear grill off the fan and used the flatter back grill on the front of the fan.

When mounted to exhaust air, the black fan hub is visible. If the colored side of the hub is visible then the fan is blowing air into the set and that is not good. Mounted two fans on the left and right vertical vented areas on the back of the set and one centered below the camera. I plugged the five fan’s USB plugs into the USB Port Hub. The AC plug for the Hub I plugged into the switched outlet on the back of my FiOS DVR. The fans will only run when the DVR is powered on.

The fan’s control knob index goes from low speed at 2 o’clock to high speed at 10 o’clock. I set the knobs to 6 o’clock and powered on the cold set to a news channel. After one hour, the only warm area on the back was below the two right side fans. There is a row of 9 capacitors located under the upper right vertical vent holes. Five of the nine caps were in the gap between the two fans and restricted air flow. Turned all the fans up to full speed. In an hour the warm area below the gap in the fans was noticeably cooler.

Because the slides make the set much hotter than normal use, I temporarily mounted a Thermaltake AF0064 80mm Sleeve Mobile fan III between the two right side 120mm fans. With all fans at full speed I started the D-Nice’s slides again. After 1 ½ hours there are no hot or even warm spots on the back of the set. After the 100 hours I will probably remove the 80 mm fan and set the other fans back to 6 o’clock. The two twist ties per fan hold each fan securely enough. I will not replace them.

Five 120 mm fans.JPG 1013k .JPG file

120 mm and temp 80 mm fans.JPG 1445k .JPG file

Now that's awesome work and applied problem solving right there. Would be kinda cool to get before and after temperature readouts, at a consistent local ambient dry bulb temperature, but still top notch handicraft regardless. smile.gif


Regarding the value of 3D recent discussion, after seeing 3D versions of How to Train Your Dragon and Avatar on my former 60E7000, and now current 60E8000, I FULLY agree that the 3D capabilities of these modern HD Plasma TV's are easily worth several hundred dollars in increased purchase price. Easily!!

Anybody who has a similarly capable TV and hasn't yet seen Life of Pi in 3D NEEDS to give that view at their earliest possible convenience. At times true visual 3D poetry is your reward. biggrin.gif
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post #2649 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

um...I have yet to see a perfect set. it's simply not going to happen. the primary reason I chose the f8500 over the vt/zt60 (in which probably will be better in some areas) is the overall panel brightness. I get unrestricted horizontal viewing angles and lcd like brightness. sounds like I did my homework for "MY" situation. do you dig what I'm saying?smile.gif

"You dig what I'm saying?" Hey, were you a beatnik in 8th grade too?? Is this Maynard G. Krebs? cool.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #2650 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

There is nothing that Panasonic has stated in literature, that even implies they will match the Samsung's brightness. There was nothing I gleaned from speaking to the Panasonic Rep at last week's show that would indicate they will match The Samsung's brightness. In fact, he wasn't even able to tell me how much brighter it would be than last year's model. Contrast this with Samsung's claim about improved brightness over last year's model that have certainly panned out.

As far as how many have bought because they needed something quickly, I don't know nor do you. But it's reasonable to assume some have.
Of course some have bought because they needed a new TV. My very very few statement is based heavily on the TV FANS that frequent these threads. I don't need a new TV. I want a new TV. Trying to explain this to my wife is a never ending battle. My current car runs fine but I want a new one. I'm not going to say it's a guy thing but it certainly seems to be a hard to describe emotional craving. Maybe craving is a good choice of words. I've probably read every post you've written on this and many other threads. I remember when you first got you Elite and read your comments for months about that TV. If I could afford it I would buy a new TV every year. Because for some reason I just really want to. I love feeling this way, I think. Maybe after 43 years of marriage my wife's practicality has rubbed off on me, but just a little.
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post #2651 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 01:48 PM
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Ill put it this way let say you wait, then if you wait until August its only ~4 months until CES 2014 and the new crop of sets where something new could be "crowned king" if you keep waiting forever then youll never buy a TV........

Amen. I started looking for my first HDTV in April 2012. I never bought one! Still looking! Now I am looking at the 2013 models! Reading the threads!
I think I would rather "research" than enjoy a TV. That is sick! Can you say "perfectionist"? How about "OCD"?

I can't even decide what kind of *stand* to buy!! (I need one; cannot wall mount here.)

Shoot me now. eek.gif
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post #2652 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind Broccoli View Post

Amen. I started looking for my first HDTV in April 2012. I never bought one! Still looking! Now I am looking at the 2013 models! Reading the threads!
I think I would rather "research" than enjoy a TV. That is sick! Can you say "perfectionist"? How about "OCD"?

I can't even decide what kind of *stand* to buy!! (I need one; cannot wall mount here.)

Shoot me now. eek.gif

Welcome to AVS wink.gif lol sooner or later you just have to jump biggrin.gif Ive held out long enough so this is the year I am jumping (I think wink.gif )
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post #2653 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:03 PM
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Just picked this up this weekend. I'm coming from a 42" inch Sony XBR2. Swore I would never buy a premium display again. Too much money considering next gen models can meet or exceed the performance in a few year's time for a LOT less $. The XBR2 was THE best display at that time (2007). Now a $900 display can easily beet its black level performance. Saw this display when getting ready to buy a Samsung 60ES7500 and was immediately impressed by the brightness it can produce. Initial observations...the screen size is huge (nice !). The clarity of the F8500 panel is awesome. No cliche...watching a move is like being there with the actors. I can't imagine a more clear or transparent panel. Black levels blow away my TV. Excellent ambient light rejection filter. Stunning industrial design. Dynamic setting can go toe to toe with almost any LED display (except maybe the Elite). Black levels are very good. Only in daylight due to I see any grayness to the panel. Putting on a movie makes the gray go away. I hear a buzz from the panel. Sometimes the buzz is not annoying. Sometimes the buzz is very annoying. Considering returning the display only due to the loud buzz at times. Magnolia has an open box 60" Elite for the same price I paid for the F8500. Considered for a long time about the Elite and now the buzz is making me consider returning F8500 and go for the Elite. If not for the buzz, I would not return the display. Plus my wife really likes skype, a built in camera, and the web browser seems to be very quick. Any comments form member regarding keeping this or getting the Elite? I have seen several Elites at Magnolia. Some look great. Others look like crap. I guess it depends on set up. What can I do about the buzz? I tried pushing on the back panel where the buzz is coming from to see if something was loose, but no change in pitch or loudness. I know if I return the F8500, I will likely not find a display than can match the clarity of this panel. Black levels and light output, yes. Clarity of picture, no way. Haven't seen one that beat this display. Really want to keep this F8500, bu the buzz annoys the hell out of me at times. BTW, the metal stand is top notch (not that such a thing would matter to anybody except me). My wife loves this TV, but I hate the buzz.

Samsung PN64F8500: Oppo 105D; Onkyo TX-SR805; Polk LSI x 5; Kimber Kable 12TC Speaker Cable; Monnster Cable Speaker Cable; Shunyata Research Aries interconnects; Shunyata Research Anaconda CX Power Cord; Monster Cable 700 and 1000 HDX HDMI Cables; John 3:16;
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post #2654 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

My PN60F8500 arrived last week. The first night, before going to bed, I started D-Nice's slides. After about an hour I got up and checked the set. The room felt warmer than usual. I ran my hand over the back of the set and found a very hot spot about a foot in diameter on the right back side in the unvented area. There was also a smaller not as hot spot on the left back side unvented area. I decided to stop the slides until I could improve the set’s cooling air flow. The rule of thumb for electronic components is that a 10 degree Celsius (18 degree Fahrenheit) increase in average operating temperature halves the life of the component.

The next day I purchased four Thermaltake Mobile Fan 12 External USB Cooling Fan 120mm AF0007 ( http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001625 ) and a Anker Uspeed USB 3.0 7 Port Hub + 1 Charging Port, with 12V 4A Power Adapter ( http://www.ianker.com/product/68UPHUB-B8U ) from Amazon . These fans are USB powered and have a speed control. The USB hub can power eight devices. I chose this model because of its 4 A Power Adapter. I already had one of these fans that I was using to exhaust my HL-T5689S DLP that was replaced with the PN60F8500. The individual fan specs are:

Max. Air Flow 47.28 CFM

Noise:
17 dBA at 1300 RPM
31 dBA at 3000 RPM

Combined the five fans at full speed should exhaust 236 CFM from the set. To mount the fans I removed the four screws that hold the stand and grills. Remounted the fan speed control bracket to the bottom right fan mounting hole with a twist tie. The power plug hung down from the right bottom of the fan. I wanted to temporarily mount the fans to find the best placement. It turned out that it was easy to get the twist ties thru the vent holes by bending the end of a tie back on itself about a eighth of an inch then poking that folded end into one of the holes. Crimping the paper on the tie made it easier to push into the hole. With a little twisting and pulling I could get the bent section to fold out and come out the hole below the entry hole. Unplugged the set during this operation because the ties contain metal wire. I used a fan grill to find the correct vent hole for the next tie. The fans come with two grills. Left the rear grill off the fan and used the flatter back grill on the front of the fan.

When mounted to exhaust air, the black fan hub is visible. If the colored side of the hub is visible then the fan is blowing air into the set and that is not good. Mounted two fans on the left and right vertical vented areas on the back of the set and one centered below the camera. I plugged the five fan’s USB plugs into the USB Port Hub. The AC plug for the Hub I plugged into the switched outlet on the back of my FiOS DVR. The fans will only run when the DVR is powered on.

The fan’s control knob index goes from low speed at 2 o’clock to high speed at 10 o’clock. I set the knobs to 6 o’clock and powered on the cold set to a news channel. After one hour, the only warm area on the back was below the two right side fans. There is a row of 9 capacitors located under the upper right vertical vent holes. Five of the nine caps were in the gap between the two fans and restricted air flow. Turned all the fans up to full speed. In an hour the warm area below the gap in the fans was noticeably cooler.

Because the slides make the set much hotter than normal use, I temporarily mounted a Thermaltake AF0064 80mm Sleeve Mobile fan III between the two right side 120mm fans. With all fans at full speed I started the D-Nice’s slides again. After 1 ½ hours there are no hot or even warm spots on the back of the set. After the 100 hours I will probably remove the 80 mm fan and set the other fans back to 6 o’clock. The two twist ties per fan hold each fan securely enough. I will not replace them.

Five 120 mm fans.JPG 1013k .JPG file

120 mm and temp 80 mm fans.JPG 1445k .JPG file

I can't afford that many fans!!! wink.gif
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post #2655 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:17 PM
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It just amazes me sometimes how one could question someone else's choice based on thier own train of thought. In the end it doesnt matter what or why they chose it. If they are happy then let them be happy.....

Couldn't agree more. It amazes me that some seem intent on making others feel badly about their choice. What drives some to do that?
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post #2656 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:30 PM
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Ken hasnt bought a set yet so you would assume wrong....hes waiting for the shootout where the VT and ZT go head to head asw well as the chance to see the sets properly calibrated.......

Exactly. Waiting. For 2013, not forever. Technology will move along and I'm happy for that. I'm not waiting for OLED, etc and I wouldn't expect anyone else to waste the next few years doing so.

I appreciate the views expressed in response to my curiosity. While I understand some of the rationale behind buying the first 2013 to ship, I will never understand why a reference tv would be used for watching daytime soaps or Oprah in broad daylight. Well, I guess some of you watch movies in the daylight of your living room, but I don't get that either (or sports, for that matter). Not on a reference panel. To each his own. I do wonder if conclusions can be reached as to the type of buyers who go for the F8500 rather than a VT60 or ZT60.

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post #2657 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:34 PM
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Because LED people who want to try plasma will find Samsung's model way more appealing than Panasonic.
Panasonic plasma is about blacker. Samsung is about brighter.

I don't like dim looking plasma TVs. So no Panasonic for me

And that's been the number one complaint from the TV buying public.
The F8500 is the brightest plasma ever buy a long shot and that's just plain bad news for Panasonic.
Why they even bother with the limited production ZT is beyond me.
Trying to 'save face' as the Japanese would say.rolleyes.gif
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post #2658 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:36 PM
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Exactly. Waiting. For 2013, not forever. Technology will move along and I'm happy for that. I'm not waiting for OLED, etc and I wouldn't expect anyone else to waste the next few years doing so.

I appreciate the views expressed in response to my curiosity. While I understand some of the rationale behind buying the first 2013 to ship, I will never understand why a reference tv would be used for watching daytime soaps or Oprah in broad daylight. Well, I guess some of you watch movies in the daylight of your living room, but I don't get that either (or sports, for that matter). Not on a reference panel. To each his own. I do wonder if conclusions can be reached as to the type of buyers who go for the F8500 rather than a VT60 or ZT60.

VERSATILITY!! for some of us its our Only tv..... rather, for me, its my only tv wink.gif

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post #2659 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:38 PM
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Couldn't agree more. It amazes me that some seem intent on making others feel badly about their choice. What drives some to do that?

Ken, who is doing that? The rationale behind purchasing decisions is informative to some. Besides, no one can "make" others feel badly.

If Mercedes, Audio and BMW each released their lineup over the course of 3 months then I'd expect a prospective buyer to hold off jumping on the very first one to the market. This would make sense in extreme circumstances, but I was not sure of the general rationale. I was particularly curious since Panny is the clear leader in plasma since Pioneer dropped out.

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post #2660 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:38 PM
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Exactly. Waiting. For 2013, not forever. Technology will move along and I'm happy for that. I'm not waiting for OLED, etc and I wouldn't expect anyone else to waste the next few years doing so.

I appreciate the views expressed in response to my curiosity. While I understand some of the rationale behind buying the first 2013 to ship, I will never understand why a reference tv would be used for watching daytime soaps or Oprah in broad daylight. Well, I guess some of you watch movies in the daylight of your living room, but I don't get that either (or sports, for that matter). Not on a reference panel. To each his own. I do wonder if conclusions can be reached as to the type of buyers who go for the F8500 rather than a VT60 or ZT60.

Again you are having a hard time stepping outside of your won train of thought. There are many who have families or spouses taht will also be watching the set and this could be in various settings. The F8500 offers a good selection of both LCD and Plasma qualities it looks like. Not everyone treats these sets as "reference" or watches in a batcave.

Nothing can be "concluded" except that they likied the set and bought it.
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post #2661 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:41 PM
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VERSATILITY!! for some of us its our Only tv..... rather, for me, its my only tv wink.gif

Versatility could include many things. I'd not considered needing a tv as bright as the sun in order to combat the sun. I like natural light. Love it. But even more, I like to control it. I suppose I figured that those who spend a large sum on a reference panel would be inclined to invest in drapery.

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post #2662 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:43 PM
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Again you are having a hard time stepping outside of your won train of thought. There are many who have families or spouses taht will also be watching the set and this could be in various settings. The F8500 offers a good selection of both LCD and Plasma qualities it looks like. Not everyone treats these sets as "reference" or watches in a batcave.

Nothing can be "concluded" except that they likied the set and bought it.

I'm having a great time learning about buying habits. If it isn't informative to you, then ignore it. I was curious. Is that so hard to grasp? Ask questions. Get answers. Ask follow ups. Learn.

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post #2663 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:43 PM
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Ken, who is doing that? The rationale behind purchasing decisions is informative to some. Besides, no one can "make" others feel badly.

If Mercedes, Audio and BMW each released their lineup over the course of 3 months then I'd expect a prospective buyer to hold off jumping on the very first one to the market. This would make sense in extreme circumstances, but I was not sure of the general rationale. I was particularly curious since Panny is the clear leader in plasma since Pioneer dropped out.

'clear'?? u just started ww3!!!!!!!
i also think spending 2k is very different than spending 50k or more... jmo

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post #2664 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Ken, who is doing that? The rationale behind purchasing decisions is informative to some. Besides, no one can "make" others feel badly.

If Mercedes, Audio and BMW each released their lineup over the course of 3 months then I'd expect a prospective buyer to hold off jumping on the very first one to the market. This would make sense in extreme circumstances, but I was not sure of the general rationale. I was particularly curious since Panny is the clear leader in plasma since Pioneer dropped out.

Your last statement just goes to prove our point even further.
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post #2665 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Exactly. Waiting. For 2013, not forever. Technology will move along and I'm happy for that. I'm not waiting for OLED, etc and I wouldn't expect anyone else to waste the next few years doing so.

I appreciate the views expressed in response to my curiosity. While I understand some of the rationale behind buying the first 2013 to ship, I will never understand why a reference tv would be used for watching daytime soaps or Oprah in broad daylight. Well, I guess some of you watch movies in the daylight of your living room, but I don't get that either (or sports, for that matter). Not on a reference panel. To each his own. I do wonder if conclusions can be reached as to the type of buyers who go for the F8500 rather than a VT60 or ZT60.

It's easy for me to understand why some would like a reference panel for night viewing and yet still watch a great picture during the day. Why not have a reference display that can do both?????

Why limit the best viewing to only dark room environments? Best results at night sure, but still great results during the day. Maybe it's just me, but that seems smart, very smart.
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post #2666 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:45 PM
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Versatility could include many things. I'd not considered needing a tv as bright as the sun in order to combat the sun. I like natural light. Love it. But even more, I like to control it. I suppose I figured that those who spend a large sum on a reference panel would be inclined to invest in drapery.

agreed! but i still want the versatility to not have to close those drapes every time the sun is out wink.gif

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post #2667 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Versatility could include many things. I'd not considered needing a tv as bright as the sun in order to combat the sun. I like natural light. Love it. But even more, I like to control it. I suppose I figured that those who spend a large sum on a reference panel would be inclined to invest in drapery.

Invest in drappery, yes becasue droppery will always get the WAF :it has nothing with being inclined to invest in drappery...I guess those who live in hirses and have floor to ceeling windows should drape then in black out shades? that wwuld look lovely wink.gif
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post #2668 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:48 PM
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It's easy for me to understand why some would like a reference panel for night viewing and yet still watch a great picture during the day. Why not have a reference display that can do both?????

Why limit the best viewing to only dark room environments? Best results at night sure, but still great results during the day. Maybe it's just me, but that seems smart, very smart.

exactly what i meant! versatility....

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I'm having a great time learning about buying habits. If it isn't informative to you, then ignore it. I was curious. Is that so hard to grasp? Ask questions. Get answers. Ask follow ups. Learn.

Its one thing to learn about "buying habits" its another to be dull to the reason why someone else would do something. On top of that you intertiwne your comments with your bias, which defeats the the purpose of said questions...
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post #2670 of 12956 Old 04-15-2013, 02:50 PM
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Just picked this up this weekend. I'm coming from a 42" inch Sony XBR2. Swore I would never buy a premium display again. Too much money considering next gen models can meet or exceed the performance in a few year's time for a LOT less $. The XBR2 was THE best display at that time (2007). Now a $900 display can easily beet its black level performance. Saw this display when getting ready to buy a Samsung 60ES7500 and was immediately impressed by the brightness it can produce. Initial observations...the screen size is huge (nice !). The clarity of the F8500 panel is awesome. No cliche...watching a move is like being there with the actors. I can't imagine a more clear or transparent panel. Black levels blow away my TV. Excellent ambient light rejection filter. Stunning industrial design. Dynamic setting can go toe to toe with almost any LED display (except maybe the Elite). Black levels are very good. Only in daylight due to I see any grayness to the panel. Putting on a movie makes the gray go away. I hear a buzz from the panel. Sometimes the buzz is not annoying. Sometimes the buzz is very annoying. Considering returning the display only due to the loud buzz at times. Magnolia has an open box 60" Elite for the same price I paid for the F8500. Considered for a long time about the Elite and now the buzz is making me consider returning F8500 and go for the Elite. If not for the buzz, I would not return the display. Plus my wife really likes skype, a built in camera, and the web browser seems to be very quick. Any comments form member regarding keeping this or getting the Elite? I have seen several Elites at Magnolia. Some look great. Others look like crap. I guess it depends on set up. What can I do about the buzz? I tried pushing on the back panel where the buzz is coming from to see if something was loose, but no change in pitch or loudness. I know if I return the F8500, I will likely not find a display than can match the clarity of this panel. Black levels and light output, yes. Clarity of picture, no way. Haven't seen one that beat this display. Really want to keep this F8500, bu the buzz annoys the hell out of me at times. BTW, the metal stand is top notch (not that such a thing would matter to anybody except me). My wife loves this TV, but I hate the buzz.

coming from a "B" series from the past which had a intolerable buzz I understand where you are coming from. my new set (8500 has a buzz to, but it is much more tolerable. I truly believe the frequency In which the buzz is emitted can only be heard by some. some will tell you that they can only here it from the rear. this is true however that same buzz is heard at the same tone/frequency when in front of the panel usually 3ft or greater. also if you turn your head either to the left or right with your ear acting like an amplifier it will be more pronounced. this is a con for me with this set, but the positives so far outweigh them greatly. try this experiment, have just your displays speakers on set it to clear voice and tell me at what level you can still hear the buzz at. anything greater that 11 I can't hear anything.

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