Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 90 - AVS Forum
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post #2671 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Besides, no one can "make" others feel badly.

Really? It's human nature for many to feel 'buyer's remorse'. Critical comments that have no constructive purpose can simply feed that buyers remorse and, get ready for it, make people 'feel badly'. Those who are empathetic know what I'm talking about, others not so much.

You asked.
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post #2672 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I appreciate the views expressed in response to my curiosity. While I understand some of the rationale behind buying the first 2013 to ship, I will never understand why a reference tv would be used for watching daytime soaps or Oprah in broad daylight. Well, I guess some of you watch movies in the daylight of your living room, but I don't get that either (or sports, for that matter). Not on a reference panel. To each his own. I do wonder if conclusions can be reached as to the type of buyers who go for the F8500 rather than a VT60 or ZT60.

Shouldn't it be evident that people would prefer to watch their favorite programming, even if that happens to be staic fuzz, on the best display that they can afford? It confounds me that you would even think to suggest that such a simple inherent human motivation needs any explanation.

A car enthusiast could technically get away with using a 1980 VW Beetle for all commuter needs. However let's say that same enthusiast can afford a Porsche Boxster S and is happy to do so. Even if they know they will hardly, if ever, get to enjoy anywhere near the full dynamic range of the cars capabilities why would anyone question their desire to own it?
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post #2673 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

'clear'?? u just started ww3!!!!!!!
i also think spending 2k is very different than spending 50k or more... jmo

Didn't one major reviewer declare a Samsung plasma the 'best' a year or so ago?
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post #2674 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Exactly. Waiting. For 2013, not forever. Technology will move along and I'm happy for that. I'm not waiting for OLED, etc and I wouldn't expect anyone else to waste the next few years doing so.

I appreciate the views expressed in response to my curiosity. While I understand some of the rationale behind buying the first 2013 to ship, I will never understand why a reference tv would be used for watching daytime soaps or Oprah in broad daylight. Well, I guess some of you watch movies in the daylight of your living room, but I don't get that either (or sports, for that matter). Not on a reference panel. To each his own. I do wonder if conclusions can be reached as to the type of buyers who go for the F8500 rather than a VT60 or ZT60.

seriously. Now I should only buy reference quality displays for critical viewing. I guess i'll return it, and buy a Haier no need for a reference panel in my living room since I don't have a dedicated HT/batcave room.rolleyes.gif

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post #2675 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Versatility could include many things. I'd not considered needing a tv as bright as the sun in order to combat the sun. I like natural light. Love it. But even more, I like to control it. I suppose I figured that those who spend a large sum on a reference panel would be inclined to invest in drapery.

who needs drapes when you have a plasma TV as bright as the F8500 cool.gif
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post #2676 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

coming from a "B" series from the past which had a intolerable buzz I understand where you are coming from. my new set (8500 has a buzz to, but it is much more tolerable. I truly believe the frequency In which the buzz is emitted can only be heard by some. some will tell you that they can only here it from the rear. this is true however that same buzz is heard at the same tone/frequency when in front of the panel usually 3ft or greater. also if you turn your head either to the left or right with your ear acting like an amplifier it will be more pronounced. this is a con for me with this set, but the positives so far outweigh them greatly. try this experiment, have just your displays speakers on set it to clear voice and tell me at what level you can still hear the buzz at. anything greater that 11 I can't hear anything.

my experience is i had a e7000 for a month, it had a definite buzz, but was tolerable for me... my new f8500 has NO buzz relatively speaking. it does have very slight buzz behind the tv, but nothing i can hear otherwise...

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post #2677 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by icelt View Post

Shouldn't it be evident that people would prefer to watch their favorite programming, even if that happens to be staic fuzz, on the best display that they can afford? It confounds me that you would even think to suggest that such a simple inherent human motivation needs any explanation.

A car enthusiast could technically get away with using a 1980 VW Beetle for all commuter needs. However let's say that same enthusiast can afford a Porsche Boxster S and is happy to do so. Even if they know they will hardly, if ever, get to enjoy anywhere near the full dynamic range of the cars capabilities why would anyone question their desire to own it?

wow, well said smile.gif

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post #2678 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:03 PM
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A
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Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

who needs drapes when you have a plasma TV as bright as the F8500 cool.gif

Anybody consider the possibility that he's a drapery salesman? wink.gif
funkahdafi and icelt like this.
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post #2679 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Lots of assumptions and no facts? You mean like the assumption where you mention ANY Panasonic is not likely to beat let alone match the brightness of the 8500?

Andy in one of the early threads when the tests/calibrations were done D Nice stated the ZT is not as bright
or even close to the record setting brightness levels of the F8500.
So it's not an assumption, just a fact.
Besides Panasonic is not even going for bright, are they?
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post #2680 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

A
Anybody consider the possibility that he's a drapery salesman? wink.gif

HA!! biggrin.gif



Anyways that was one heck of a way to get this thread derailed.....back to the regularly scheduled programming of over analyzing the F8500 tongue.gif
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post #2681 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:18 PM
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I'll have to check. I run my audio through my HT setup so when I have heard the buzz, the volume on the TV has been at mute. I put my ear up to the display model in the store before I bought mine and I could hear a buzz, but it was so faint I could have cared less. My TV has a much higher buzz.

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post #2682 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

I'll have to check. I run my audio through my HT setup so when I have heard the buzz, the volume on the TV has been at mute. I put my ear up to the display model in the store before I bought mine and I could hear a buzz, but it was so faint I could have cared less. My TV has a much higher buzz.

Is it directional? (if you move off center does it go away?
you "could" have a defective set, but you may also jsut be more sensitive to the buzz frequency......
All Plasmas will "buzz" but ones sensitivity and the amount can differ from set to set....
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post #2683 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

seriously. Now I should only buy reference quality displays for critical viewing. I guess i'll return it, and buy a Haier no need for a reference panel in my living room since I don't have a dedicated HT/batcave room.rolleyes.gif

in going along with jhs' rationale, i should have a one seater car!!!
edit...(jh901)

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post #2684 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Andy in one of the early threads when the tests/calibrations were done D Nice stated the ZT is not as bright
or even close to the record setting brightness levels of the F8500.
So it's not an assumption, just a fact.
Besides Panasonic is not even going for bright, are they?
I must have missed D Nice's statement. I do know that the ZT won't be out till August and won't be available for the Shootout. Now come on. I never said or even insinuated that Panasonic is going for bright. Is the F8500 going to be compared to the ZT or the VT? I'm sure some will compare it to both anyway. Ken, do you think there is any downside to the F8500's increased brightness?
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post #2685 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 02:54 PM
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Hi All,

I have a 64F8500 that's been calibrated after 100hr break in period. I've intentionally left the board over the last week because I wanted to evaluate my new tv for a while without any influence from the forum. Holy crap you guys have been chatty over the last week! Here are some impressions:

This is the best tv I've ever owned hands down. I just upgraded from a D7000 and this thing is in another league. Its' clarity (somehow this tv looks way "clearer" than my last panel. Must be the pixel structure), color reproduction, blacks and brightness make my D7000 look like a chump by comparison...(I love the word "chump" It just feels so good to say. Do yourself a favor and find someone you know won't punch you and call them a chump).

My panel is flush with the stand, but the stand itself is not flush with the furniture it rests on. In order to be at rest, it has to be tilted either slightly forward or backward. Going to call and see if I can get Samsung to send someone out to try and properly assemble the stand (if the delivery guys assembled it wrong), or replace it all together if need be. I have this terrible fear of someone tipping it over.

There is a slight buzz on my panel but it's way less than the tesla coil crackling I heard from my D7000. I have a HT audio so I don't notice it anyway.

I'm not sure why some people are complaining about viewing angles, I have couches pretty much all around the viewing room and haven't been able to find a viewing angle that I thought was unwatchable.

I'm torn about how this thing handles motion. Most thing move very well compared to my old tv, but then every once in a while I get smacked in the face by some pretty bad judder. I've played around with some settings but I find it's either occasional judder or Soap Opera. To be honest, it's rare enough that I haven't spent too much time with the settings. Samsara's city vistas and speeding cars were handled with aplomb.

The 3D is fantastic. Again, makes my D7000 look like a chump. I've tried some 3D br's and also tried the 2D-3D conversion, both bested my old panel handily.

I've noticed the flicker but once I changed the cell light, it is completely gone. I've also not noticed a single instance of brightness pops. This is a big one for me coming from the D series. I think I'm extremely sensitive to it. I hated it on my last panel. Got the firmware fix to work for a few months, then the pops came back. I decided to live with it, but I died a little inside every time I saw it, which was quite often. None on the F series whatsoever.

No rebooting to speak of, but one annoyance I'm finding is that the voice control occasionally thinks that people speaking in the programing I'm watching is me trying to make commands. The little notification comes up asking me what I just said. This causes me to say "close menu" aloud.

No banding at all. Slight almost imperceptible IR. but only if you are very close to the panel and specifically looking for it.

Also I had been using the "Low" option on the HDMI Black Level settings for a while because it produced visibly darker images which I liked. Then I watched the Zero Dark Thirty compound raid sequence. The whole scene was basically a black screen with the occasional shadow of a face visible. This is the one time I saw ridiculous brightness pops and even with the pops I couldn't make out what I was in the scene at all. I tested that setting on some video games and other still images and noticed I was losing details in the blacks every time. "Crushing" is the term the kids are using these days I believe.

Did notice some video lag when gaming but it was only unacceptable during 1 of 5 games I played (Bioshock Infinite - which to be fair has been criticized for being laggy on Xbox). Once I turned on the game mode, that game was fine.

I'll continue to edit this post as more things occur to me, but once again, all I can say is that I am in love with this damn tv. Even with the few flaws I've listed.
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post #2686 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:00 PM
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Just picked this up this weekend. I'm coming from a 42" inch Sony XBR2. Swore I would never buy a premium display again. Too much money considering next gen models can meet or exceed the performance in a few year's time for a LOT less $. The XBR2 was THE best display at that time (2007). Now a $900 display can easily beet its black level performance. Saw this display when getting ready to buy a Samsung 60ES7500 and was immediately impressed by the brightness it can produce. Initial observations...the screen size is huge (nice !). The clarity of the F8500 panel is awesome. No cliche...watching a move is like being there with the actors. I can't imagine a more clear or transparent panel. Black levels blow away my TV. Excellent ambient light rejection filter. Stunning industrial design. Dynamic setting can go toe to toe with almost any LED display (except maybe the Elite). Black levels are very good. Only in daylight due to I see any grayness to the panel. Putting on a movie makes the gray go away. I hear a buzz from the panel. Sometimes the buzz is not annoying. Sometimes the buzz is very annoying. Considering returning the display only due to the loud buzz at times. Magnolia has an open box 60" Elite for the same price I paid for the F8500. Considered for a long time about the Elite and now the buzz is making me consider returning F8500 and go for the Elite. If not for the buzz, I would not return the display. Plus my wife really likes skype, a built in camera, and the web browser seems to be very quick. Any comments form member regarding keeping this or getting the Elite? I have seen several Elites at Magnolia. Some look great. Others look like crap. I guess it depends on set up. What can I do about the buzz? I tried pushing on the back panel where the buzz is coming from to see if something was loose, but no change in pitch or loudness. I know if I return the F8500, I will likely not find a display than can match the clarity of this panel. Black levels and light output, yes. Clarity of picture, no way. Haven't seen one that beat this display. Really want to keep this F8500, bu the buzz annoys the hell out of me at times. BTW, the metal stand is top notch (not that such a thing would matter to anybody except me). My wife loves this TV, but I hate the buzz.

Mine buzz for a day of the first8days I had it, then after breakin time, no buzz. There will always be a little on all plasmas if you put your ear next to it. The buzz I heard was loud enough to hear from 5ft, but only that day. I actually turned down cell light 20 to 14 and it made a big difference in the volume of buzz. After breakin days, Ive turned cell to 20, no buzz. I wouldnt use cell at 20 until after breakin hrs. I did until I heard buzz, then had it 14 for a day, then put it back to 20... no buzz.

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post #2687 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:03 PM
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Hi All

I have a quick question to ask for those who own the 51' set. Does it have any internal fans? And on a complete different note: the endless debate about Panasonic or Samsung will be determined by the larger TV buying public, not us on a forum most Americans have never heard of. If Samsung sells a ton of these bright plasmas then Panasonic might have to reevaluate their product line. If not, the endless debate continues unabated. I am looking at this TV after my disappointment with the 50' ST50: IR, dithering (could see it from 6 feet away), poor video processing (OTA) and ABL (I felt it was too aggressive). Don't have a batcave and if I did my family would worry.
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post #2688 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:13 PM
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Hi All

I have a quick question to ask for those who own the 51' set. Does it have any internal fans? And on a complete different note: the endless debate about Panasonic or Samsung will be determined by the larger TV buying public, not us on a forum most Americans have never heard of. If Samsung sells a ton of these bright plasmas then Panasonic might have to reevaluate their product line. If not, the endless debate continues unabated. I am looking at this TV after my disappointment with the 50' ST50: IR, dithering (could see it from 6 feet away), poor video processing (OTA) and ABL (I felt it was too aggressive). Don't have a batcave and if I did my family would worry.
I own the 64",but I assure you it does not have internal fans. just keep those rear vents free and clear.

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post #2689 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I must have missed D Nice's statement. I do know that the ZT won't be out till August and won't be available for the Shootout. Now come on. I never said or even insinuated that Panasonic is going for bright. Is the F8500 going to be compared to the ZT or the VT? I'm sure some will compare it to both anyway. Ken, do you think there is any downside to the F8500's increased brightness?

Actually the ZT WILL be at the shootout per the insider at HDJ.......Ken ahs compared his viewing of the ZT at the Panasonic event already as have a few others....hes one of the few that have seen both.....the F8500 will probably be compared to both, but price wise its closer to the VT than the ZT.....
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post #2690 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:19 PM
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mightymouse,
I to have over 120hrs breakin time...
can you post your settings, I would like to compare to what I have. See if I like anything better by trying it out... heres mine

celllight-14 (16&17 flickers)
contrast-95
brightness-45
sharpness-0
dyn contrast-off
blacktone-off (this is the one to me that crushed details...)
whitebalance-22,25,24,25,24,25 ()Millers movie settings
gamma (-3)
colortone-warm1 (warm2 white is too greenish&yellow, not white...)
digital-off
mpeg-off
hdmiblacklevel-low
filmmode-auto2
motion-off
blackoptimizer-darmroom

Thanks, eh.

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post #2691 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Hi All,

I have a 64F8500 that's been calibrated after 100hr break in period. I've intentionally left the board over the last week because I wanted to evaluate my new tv for a while without any influence from the forum. Holy crap you guys have been chatty over the last week! Here are some impressions:

This is the best tv I've ever owned hands down. I just upgraded from a D7000 and this thing is in another league. Its' clarity (somehow this tv looks way "clearer" than my last panel. Must be the pixel structure), color reproduction, blacks and brightness make my D7000 look like a chump by comparison...(I love the word "chump" It just feels so good to say. Do yourself a favor and find someone you know won't punch you and call them a chump).

My panel is flush with the stand, but the stand itself is not flush with the furniture it rests on. In order to be at rest, it has to be tilted either slightly forward or backward. There is a slight buzz on my panel but it's way less than the tesla coil crackling I heard from my D7000. I have a HT audio so I don't notice it anyway. I'm not sure why some people are complaining about viewing angles, I have couches pretty much all around the viewing room and haven't been able to find a viewing angle that I thought was unwatchable.

I'm torn about how this thing handles motion. Most thing move very well compared to my old tv, but then every once in a while I get smacked in the face by some pretty bad judder. I've played around with some settings but I find it's either occasional judder or Soap Opera. To be honest, it's rare enough that I haven't spent too much time with the settings. Samsara's city vistas and speeding cars were handled with aplomb.

The 3D is fantastic. Again, makes my D7000 look like a chump. I've tried some 3D br's and also tried the 2D-3D conversion, both bested my old panel handily.

I've noticed the flicker but once I changed the cell light, it is completely gone. I've also not noticed a single instance of brightness pops. This is a big one for me coming from the D series. I think I'm extremely sensitive to it. I hated it on my last panel. Got the firmware fix to work for a few months, then the pops came back. I decided to live with it, but I died a little inside every time I saw it, which was quite often. None on the F series whatsoever.

No rebooting to speak of, but one annoyance I'm finding is that the voice control occasionally thinks that people speaking in the programing I'm watching is me trying to make commands. The little notification comes up asking me what I just said. This causes me to say "close menu" aloud.

Also I had been using the "Low" option on the HDMI Black Level settings for a while because it produced visibly darker images which I liked. Then I watched the Zero Dark Thirty compound raid sequence. The whole scene was basically a black screen with the occasional shadow of a face visible. This is the one time I saw ridiculous brightness pops and even with the pops I couldn't make out what I was in the scene at all. I tested that setting on some video games and other still images and noticed I was losing details in the blacks every time. "Crushing" is the term the kids are using these days I believe.

Did notice some video lag when gaming but it was only unacceptable during 1 of 5 games I played (Bioshock Infinite - which to be fair has been criticized for being laggy on Xbox). Once I turned on the game mode, that game was fine.

I'll continue to edit this post as more things occur to me, but once again, all I can say is that I am in love with this damn tv. Even with the few flaws I've listed.

Mighty thanks for the review smile.gif
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post #2692 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:24 PM
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in going along with jhs' rationale, i should have a one seater car!!!

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Originally Posted by jhck66 View Post

Hi All

I have a quick question to ask for those who own the 51' set. Does it have any internal fans? And on a complete different note: the endless debate about Panasonic or Samsung will be determined by the larger TV buying public, not us on a forum most Americans have never heard of. If Samsung sells a ton of these bright plasmas then Panasonic might have to reevaluate their product line. If not, the endless debate continues unabated. I am looking at this TV after my disappointment with the 50' ST50: IR, dithering (could see it from 6 feet away), poor video processing (OTA) and ABL (I felt it was too aggressive). Don't have a batcave and if I did my family would worry.

No fan and no buzz or IR issues and like you I don't view in a bat cave and this 51F8500 is more then up to bright room viewing.
I've found its done a great job in video processing and no ABL issues although some 60"&64" guys are reporting some.. Almost head mine 2 weeks and absolutely no regrets.. Good luck with your decision..
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post #2693 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

mightymouse,
I to have over 120hrs breakin time...
can you post your settings, I would like to compare to what I have. See if I like anything better by trying it out... heres mine

celllight-14 (16&17 flickers)
contrast-95
brightness-45
sharpness-0
dyn contrast-off
blacktone-off (this is the one to me that crushed details...)
whitebalance-22,25,24,25,24,25 ()Millers movie settings
gamma (-3)
colortone-warm1 (warm2 white is too greenish&yellow, not white...)
digital-off
mpeg-off
hdmiblacklevel-low
filmmode-auto2
motion-off
blackoptimizer-darmroom

Thanks, eh.

curious why film mode on auto2? what do you find diff there from off or auto1? thX!

Samsung PN51F8500. Marantz SR5008. Oppo BDP 103D. Sony BDP S5100. Emp Tek E55TIB LR, E5CIB, E55WIB. Sennheiser Momentum. Sennheiser 598.
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post #2694 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I must have missed D Nice's statement. I do know that the ZT won't be out till August and won't be available for the Shootout. Now come on. I never said or even insinuated that Panasonic is going for bright. Is the F8500 going to be compared to the ZT or the VT? I'm sure some will compare it to both anyway. Ken, do you think there is any downside to the F8500's increased brightness?

Actually I'm not sure that Robert has made any final decisions on what the status of the ZT is for the shootout.

I don't think there's any downside at all to the added brightness. IMO it's only a big plus. Having additional headroom is a very nice thing in my book.

I don't think it's accurate to equate the brightness with the popping. Remember that Kevin's Cal Day calibration eliminated the one instance of popping we saw, yet the Cal Night still had it.
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post #2695 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

curious why film mode on auto2? what do you find diff there from off or auto1? thX!

I know one of them does 3:2 pulldown, but can't remember if it's 1 or 2.

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Maybe I missed an answer to an earlier question but regarding the reason given for the implementation of ABL, technology. What do they mean when "preventing a meltdown"? What would happen if there was no ABL?
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post #2697 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

With heavily tinted windows smile.gif
No fan and no buzz or IR issues and like you I don't view in a bat cave and this 51F8500 is more then up to bright room viewing.
I've found its done a great job in video processing and no ABL issues although some 60"&64" guys are reporting some.. Almost head mine 2 weeks and absolutely no regrets.. Good luck with your decision..

I'm confused as why you jumped on this display right away. the vt's are now triclking out, and the zt will be out in a few months.biggrin.gif I also do not understand why you have this in a bright room.rolleyes.gif

sorry, i couldn't resist..

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post #2698 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Maybe I missed an answer to an earlier question but regarding the reason given for the implementation of ABL, technology. What do they mean when "preventing a meltdown"? What would happen if there was no ABL?

Apparently it is possible for a combination of conditions to occur that results in the display portion of the TV attempting to draw more electrical current from the power supply than it is rated. IF this were to happen the power supply could overheat, and I suppose depending on circumstances, an overheating power supply might catch fire (itself or something close bye with a low enough ignition temperature). Naturally with the amounts of plastic involved in modern manufacturing an exceedingly hot or burning power supply would lead to the surrounding plastics melting, if not worse.

So, to the best of my understanding, that is where the concept of "melt down" regarding the ABL feature is derived.
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Mightymouse, nice review, thanks! You mentioned your panel has been calibrated. Is that professionally? If so, did the calibrator leave you with a calibrated Cal Day mode? If so, and this critical to many owners, it would be great if you could locate some scene with popping, such as hockey recorded or buffered on a DVR.

If you can detect popping in the Movie mode, it would give us another datapoint if you're able to replay that scene in the Cal Day mode. If the popping is eliminated in your Cal Day mode, that would be two professionally calibrated panels where that occurred. If it's not eliminated, it would still be useful to know. Thanks.
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post #2700 of 12346 Old 04-15-2013, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Maybe I missed an answer to an earlier question but regarding the reason given for the implementation of ABL, technology. What do they mean when "preventing a meltdown"? What would happen if there was no ABL?

From my brief and VERY limited googling the ABL circuit controls the number of light pulses, according to teh APL.....Since Plasma is power on demand at "full white" screen this would be max power consumption, which "could" lead to overload and malfunctions if not held in check (at least IMO)......It helps with power consumption, but I would also thinks protects the boards from being overloaded and giving off too much heat......
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