Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 92 - AVS Forum
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post #2731 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 07:22 PM
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Tron Legacy is in the collection. I'll give it a looksy for pops sometime this week.
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post #2732 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

sorry wink.gif knee jerk reaction, couldnt help myself! done now

It was pretty funny. biggrin.gif

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64

TY, hoped you had the 51", dying to get my hands on cal settings for the 51..
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post #2733 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Also wanted to mention that I just picked up a Darbee to go along with my new tv against the advice of David Abrams at Avical. I must say that when its good, boy is it good. I honestly didn't think I could get a more pleasing to my eye pq (notice I didn't say "better" or "more accurate"), but this thing does. It does actually make some things worse though. I am the type who is always adjusting things (much to my x's chagrin), and its easy to tell what material is appropriate for it, so I just keep the remote handy and shut it off as needed. It made Samsara, Skyfall and Zero Dark Thirty look better, but I had to turn it off for Lincoln and Argo. Video games also seem to greatly benefit.

Since you mentioned the Darbee and videogames you might find this article by Eurogamer on that exact subject worth a read:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-darbee-darblet-review

Brief Intro
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Meet the video processor designed to make your movies and games look richer and more detailed.



By David Bierton
Published Tuesday, 18 December 2012

Take a look at the comparison images at the top of this page. On the left we see an image grabbed from the Casino Royale Blu-ray, while on the right we see the same frame processed with our latest review subject, the Darbee Darblet. Is the perceived benefit you see - if any - enough to consider a £300 investment?

The Darblet's creators believe that their product can actually improve upon the quality of your source material, be it standard def or HD, movies or games. The quick comparison above - which is considerably downscaled by the way - certainly seems to indicate that more detail is being resolved, making the Darblet a hot topic in AV circles. It certainly isn't cheap, but compared to the thousands of pounds asked for some high-end image processing boxes out there, AV enthusiasts might consider it something of a bargain - especially as it features support for resolutions up to 1080p, including 3D, effectively covering all your bases.

.........
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post #2734 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 09:54 PM
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curious why film mode on auto2? what do you find diff there from off or auto1? thX!

I dont know, that setting I haven't spent time comparing it options. I have it at that because that it what a lot of posters have it at. Its not in Millers settings list, only the top category's. From everything Ive read on the tv, I think its good for non1080p content or worse feeds to help make the picture look better. If you know or find out anything on this setting, let me know. Thanks, eh.

Most of the settings Ive compared & like those (watching in movie theatre environment, hence celllight@14/mostly Millers movie settings).

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post #2735 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 10:10 PM
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PH8TE - you're very welcome smile.gif

Robinson - I was considering it, but it seems posting calibrated settings is taboo if done by anyone but the calibrator. I was thinking maybe it'd be alright as long as I left the white balance values (where the real magic is) out? What do you all think? I have no problem posting my settings if you all say it's cool.

Ken - you're also very welcome. I had it professionally calibrated by Ken Whitcomb from Avical (he's on these boards). He left me with both Cal Day and Cal Night settings and 3D cal settings as well. I'm happy to help. What specifically would you like me to do?

Do you see the pops when in cal day mode. If not, could you ask him/Whitcomb if hes ok with you posting the setting to that mode, since its the only verified settings (that noone has posted the settings to) that eliminate the pops... I dont know if its legal or frowned a upon to post professional calibrated settings (I can understand why). If hes ok with it (and let him know about the pops thing... thats why were all so interested in the settings specialy for the cal day mode). As for the white balance, is that the 2pt or 10pt. Miller has his 2pt white balance settings posted for all modes he did.

Thanks, eh. I also dont know if its frowned upon to post settings in this particular thread, but until more people(any) are posting in the settings thread. Im posting settings in this one.

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post #2736 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Also wanted to mention that I just picked up a Darbee to go along with my new tv against the advice of David Abrams at Avical. I must say that when its good, boy is it good. I honestly didn't think I could get a more pleasing to my eye pq (notice I didn't say "better" or "more accurate"), but this thing does. It does actually make some things worse though. I am the type who is always adjusting things (much to my x's chagrin), and its easy to tell what material is appropriate for it, so I just keep the remote handy and shut it off as needed. It made Samsara, Skyfall and Zero Dark Thirty look better, but I had to turn it off for Lincoln and Argo. Video games also seem to greatly benefit.

Waht were the differences for video games? How much does it cost?

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Oppo 103d
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post #2737 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

For some really high quality streaming videos, go to the youtube app on your 8500, and search for "4K Video". A sample 4k UHD (Ultra HD) video download by HQMEDIA was nice!

nice! great way to show off our new toys smile.gif

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post #2738 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Use a computer with a 4K graphics card and step it up a notch, watch out for imposter's though that say they are 4K, but actually can not display 4K.

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post #2739 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

I dont know, that setting I haven't spent time comparing it options. I have it at that because that it what a lot of posters have it at. Its not in Millers settings list, only the top category's. From everything Ive read on the tv, I think its good for non1080p content or worse feeds to help make the picture look better. If you know or find out anything on this setting, let me know. Thanks, eh.

Most of the settings Ive compared & like those (watching in movie theatre environment, hence celllight@14/mostly Millers movie settings).

interesting, ok i'll try it! thx

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post #2740 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 10:45 PM
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Has anyone else noticed what I would describe as ghosting (like cross talk in 3d land) on the 2d picture on this set? I first noticed it watching 3d and now I believe the reason I'm seeing it in 3d is because its actually not just a product of the 3d but of the panel itself. I'm remembering back to Kevin or chads (can't remember which one now) comment that during calibration that the white was bleeding into the black area of some test pattern they had up.

Is this an issue that's been discussed or am I the first to notice it? It's most obvious when a bright object is in the foreground against a black background. Much in the same way 3d cross talk is most obvious.
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post #2741 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Use a computer with a 4K graphics card and step it up a notch, watch out for imposter's though that say they are 4K, but actually can not display 4K.

it must be breath taking in true 4k!!!

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post #2742 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiznant View Post

Has anyone else noticed what I would describe as ghosting (like cross talk in 3d land) on the 2d picture on this set? I first noticed it watching 3d and now I believe the reason I'm seeing it in 3d is because its actually not just a product of the 3d but of the panel itself. I'm remembering back to Kevin or chads (can't remember which one now) comment that during calibration that the white was bleeding into the black area of some test pattern they had up.

Is this an issue that's been discussed or am I the first to notice it? It's most obvious when a bright object is in the foreground against a black background. Much in the same way 3d cross talk is most obvious.

whats the source? is it possible the 3D button on your remote got pushed by accident? i have noticed (at least what i think u are saying) it but i have very crummy directtv as source. not noticed on bluray content.

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post #2743 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

Concerns that I have with my 64F8500.

1. The picture seems to have a soap opera affect especially on news stations. Maybe it is because the picture is much softer on this set. It could also be due to the fact the display is much brighter than any other plasma. The motion judder is set to off and I have tried all the settings with judder. You really can't see any differences when changing the judder setting which makes me wonder if there is something wrong with the set.

I can also confirm that the set seems to be doing some type of frame interpolation even when the motion dejudder canceler (or whatever it's called, its convoluted) is off. Can't remember if it is just on hdmi sources or not or if its on the tuner input as well

2. The ABL fluctuations are what I would call severe on the set. It happens on most movies that I watch on Fios, HBO, Cinemax, etc. I know it isn't the source because I have checked same content on my other plasma and it doesn't do this. I have even seen this issue in movies with a dark background. You can pretty much count on seeing this when there is sky in the background. You can see the screen get brighter and it is always two fluctuations that are visible. I will post a video later that clearly shows this happening. My cell light is set to 20.

The brightness fluctuations can be remedied by setting the cell light to anything other than 16 or 17 and the black fluctuations can be remedied by turning off the black optimizer.

3. There is a faint horizontal band that is visible in lighter backgrounds especially if the scene is panning vertically. It goes across the entire screen. Been like this since day one. It almost looks like a band from the menu settings but I am not sure.

I too have a faint line or bar going across the screen about 1/2 the way up. Is rarely noticeable though. Like you said only on bright backgrounds with vertical scrolling.

Initially I thought this was a great set but now I am not so sure.

.
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post #2744 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

Do you see the pops when in cal day mode. If not, could you ask him/Whitcomb if hes ok with you posting the setting to that mode, since its the only verified settings (that noone has posted the settings to) that eliminate the pops... I dont know if its legal or frowned a upon to post professional calibrated settings (I can understand why). If hes ok with it (and let him know about the pops thing... thats why were all so interested in the settings specialy for the cal day mode). As for the white balance, is that the 2pt or 10pt. Miller has his 2pt white balance settings posted for all modes he did.

Thanks, eh. I also dont know if its frowned upon to post settings in this particular thread, but until more people(any) are posting in the settings thread. Im posting settings in this one.

i beleive k millers are 10pt white bal settings... unless i picked it up incorrectly, but i presumed the numbers after the high RGB (gains) are for the 10pt intervals

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post #2745 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

whats the source? is it possible the 3D button on your remote got pushed by accident? i have noticed (at least what i think u are saying) it but i have very crummy directtv as source. not noticed on bluray content.

Nope. I've checked that the 3d is not engaged. My source is blu ray disc feed by an oppo 95 using wireworld silver starlight hdmi cables. What amazes me is how good the picture looks despite the ghosting!

For anyone reading try watching the 3d demo material on the smart hub. Some of that material really show the ghosting in 3d mode. That said, avatar still looks amazing. But it's one of those things were I don't know if I can ignore the ghosting knowing that its there. I was wondering if the zt60 with its "no air layer" design would address this specific issue.
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post #2746 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by whiznant View Post

Nope. I've checked that the 3d is not engaged. My source is blu ray disc feed by an oppo 95 using wireworld silver starlight hdmi cables. What amazes me is how good the picture looks despite the ghosting!

For anyone reading try watching the 3d demo material on the smart hub. Some of that material really show the ghosting in 3d mode. That said, avatar still looks amazing. But it's one of those things were I don't know if I can ignore the ghosting knowing that its there. I was wondering if the zt60 with its "no air layer" design would address this specific issue.

figured it wouldnt be that simple! but thought i'd throw it out there anyway.

will check out the 3d demo when i get a chance... movie goin right now. but, maybe i dont want to know?!!!

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post #2747 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 11:21 PM
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I'm glad you love your Kuro, I certainly did. But if it's glowing, maybe you should turn your saturation down a bit? wink.gif

Unless of course your dinner and movie involves psyosibin mushrooms...
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post #2748 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

figured it wouldnt be that simple! but thought i'd throw it out there anyway.

will check out the 3d demo when i get a chance... movie goin right now. but, maybe i dont want to know?!!!

For real! Whatcha watchin?
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post #2749 of 12514 Old 04-15-2013, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by whiznant View Post

For real! Whatcha watchin?

kinda dumb, kinda funny! 'serious moonlight' netflicks

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post #2750 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiznant View Post

Nope. I've checked that the 3d is not engaged. My source is blu ray disc feed by an oppo 95 using wireworld silver starlight hdmi cables. What amazes me is how good the picture looks despite the ghosting!

For anyone reading try watching the 3d demo material on the smart hub. Some of that material really show the ghosting in 3d mode. That said, avatar still looks amazing. But it's one of those things were I don't know if I can ignore the ghosting knowing that its there. I was wondering if the zt60 with its "no air layer" design would address this specific issue.

wow big trouble! not what you are thinking tho........ ! but, man i'm gonna be spending $$ on some 3D movies! pretty cool i must say. the imax trailers are in ur face!
did notice a little ghosting but not bad and not much. either i'm just missing it or something? would have to see more to really get a handle on how prevalent it is... i have 51" what size is yours? good question re the zt... tho i'm not entertaining that one anyway regardless...

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post #2751 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

Do you see the pops when in cal day mode. If not, could you ask him/Whitcomb if hes ok with you posting the setting to that mode, since its the only verified settings (that noone has posted the settings to) that eliminate the pops... I dont know if its legal or frowned a upon to post professional calibrated settings (I can understand why). If hes ok with it (and let him know about the pops thing... thats why were all so interested in the settings specialy for the cal day mode). As for the white balance, is that the 2pt or 10pt. Miller has his 2pt white balance settings posted for all modes he did.

Thanks, eh. I also dont know if its frowned upon to post settings in this particular thread, but until more people(any) are posting in the settings thread. Im posting settings in this one.

Remember though, we want him to verify an instance of popping first in a mode other than Cal Day and then replay that same clip in Cal Day to see if it disappears. Otherwise we don't know if it was Cal Day or he simply has no popping in any mode.
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post #2752 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiznant View Post

.
Originally Posted by floridaman

Concerns that I have with my 64F8500.

1. The picture seems to have a soap opera affect especially on news stations. Maybe it is because the picture is much softer on this set. It could also be due to the fact the display is much brighter than any other plasma. The motion judder is set to off and I have tried all the settings with judder. You really can't see any differences when changing the judder setting which makes me wonder if there is something wrong with the set.

I can also confirm that the set seems to be doing some type of frame interpolation even when the motion dejudder canceler (or whatever it's called, its convoluted) is off. Can't remember if it is just on hdmi sources or not or if its on the tuner input as well

2. The ABL fluctuations are what I would call severe on the set. It happens on most movies that I watch on Fios, HBO, Cinemax, etc. I know it isn't the source because I have checked same content on my other plasma and it doesn't do this. I have even seen this issue in movies with a dark background. You can pretty much count on seeing this when there is sky in the background. You can see the screen get brighter and it is always two fluctuations that are visible. I will post a video later that clearly shows this happening. My cell light is set to 20.

The brightness fluctuations can be remedied by setting the cell light to anything other than 16 or 17 and the black fluctuations can be remedied by turning off the black optimizer.

3. There is a faint horizontal band that is visible in lighter backgrounds especially if the scene is panning vertically. It goes across the entire screen. Been like this since day one. It almost looks like a band from the menu settings but I am not sure.

I too have a faint line or bar going across the screen about 1/2 the way up. Is rarely noticeable though. Like you said only on bright backgrounds with vertical scrolling.

Initially I thought this was a great set but now I am not so sure.

Do you have the 64 inch model? The cell light settings on my set don't change the brightness pops regardless of where they are set to. I have been able to eliminate this issue by setting the contrast at 85. The band I am referring to is 1.5 inches from top to bottom is near the center of the screen. it is a horizontal band. Very faint but noticeable in lighter backgrounds.
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post #2753 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

3. There is a faint horizontal band that is visible in lighter backgrounds especially if the scene is panning vertically. It goes across the entire screen. Been like this since day one. It almost looks like a band from the menu settings but I am not sure.

I too have a faint line or bar going across the screen about 1/2 the way up. Is rarely noticeable though. Like you said only on bright backgrounds with vertical scrolling.

I saw this band on a 64" I've tested and decided not to buy this particular model, because screen uniformity is very important to me. Basicly it looked like this, but only very faint and visible on bright backgrounds like snow. Thinks it's related to the screen filters. You can easy test with grey and white slides.


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post #2754 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

I saw this band on a 64" I've tested and decided not to buy this particular model, because screen uniformity is very important to me. Basicly it looked like this, but only very faint and visible on bright backgrounds like snow. Thinks it's related to the screen filters. You can easy test with grey and white slides.


Were you close to the screen? I didnt see this band on the model I saw at Magnolia, of course I didnt watch Slides, but then I dont watch slides in my normal day to day either.....I actually looked for the band when white scenes came up and there were a few as well as snow scenes....
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post #2755 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

Waht were the differences for video games? How much does it cost?

The article I posted just above yours goes into great detail on the topic:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-darbee-darblet-review

Current online pricing is around $300.
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post #2756 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 06:50 AM
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I could see the band still from 3m distance, not only with slides also on bright scenes from Skyfall and Bourne Identity 4. But the slides showed the real outlooking of this band to me. Also have to admit that I'm quite sensitve to DSE. BTW I created his picture with Photoshop just to illustrate.
Think this model was not "normal", hopefully. But will check on some other models to verify. This could be a deal breaker for me.

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post #2757 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

I could see the band still from 3m distance, not only with slides also on bright scenes from Skyfall and Bourne Identity 4. But the slides showed the real outlooking of this band to me. Also have to admit that I'm quite sensitve to DSE. BTW I created his picture with Photoshop just to illustrate.
Think this model was not "normal", hopefully. But will check on some other models to verify. This could be a deal breaker for me.

It could be the filter, but usually it doesnt ahve any effect outside of maybe a 3tf or closer difference.....Floridaman seems to be an "ouside" sample as I ahve not really heard others report this issue, although its not out of the realm of possibility that this is an actual issue and cant be corrected, I would think we would hear more about it if it was that pronounced........

I would also verify settings and the like to make sure you are getting as close to "good" as possible smile.gif
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post #2758 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 07:14 AM
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If this is filter related, what I'm thinking, it can not be corrected by any setting. I also do not think this would be a common issue, cause there are nearly no customer reports about. Said before this probably was a bad set, but I will look out for it on others.
Regarding the settings, think I found the right ones, as my calibration was pretty well.

Also have to say that the PQ was really amazing. Sharpness and video processing much better than my VT50. Did notice that the black optimzer worked better since the last firmware update to 1004 but still triggers on too low APL. If You see that there were 3 firmware updates since release, seems there is much to fix for Samsung but I expect black optimizer to work better in future.

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post #2759 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

If this is filter related, what I'm thinking, it can not be corrected by any setting. I also do not think this would be a common issue, cause there are nearly no customer reports about. Said before this probably was a bad set, but I will look out for it on others.
Regarding the settings, think I found the right ones, as my calibration was pretty well.

Also have to say that the PQ was really amazing. Sharpness and video processing much better than my VT50. Did notice that the black optimzer worked better since the last firmware update to 1004 but still triggers on too low APL. If You see that there were 3 firmware updates since release, seems there is much to fix for Samsung but I expect black optimizer to work better in future.

Try with Contrast between 75 and 85 with Cell light at 20, the 75 and 85 seem to be the two points where the ABL fluctuations seem to be diminished the most......Make sure Black Tone is OFF and that Black Optimizer is set to either Dark Room or Off, these combinations seem to be the best from what I have seen.

If you are seeing teh filter than you are correct, it would not be "fixable".....from reports of other owners this hasnt been an issue except at extreme angles and up close however (outside of floridaman)).....Could have been a bad set as well, many vaiables that could be the casue of what you are seeing.....
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post #2760 of 12514 Old 04-16-2013, 07:45 AM
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Generally speaking, what is the rationale behind buying the F8500 so early in the 2013 season? The VT60 and ZT60 are coming soon. The ST60 is getting some terrific reviews. Are most of you Samsung fans or otherwise anti-Panasonic? Just curious.

For me I need a TV. And I have a return window that means I can likely check out VT60 to compare (maybe even buy it and bring it home) or be so thrilled with my F8500 that it doesn't matter. It's not like all sales are final in the US.

The idea of it revolving around being a Samsung "fan" or "anti-"Panasonic seems far-fetched. Having said that, I have a number of Samsung products, but not all of them have been perfect and, like most products, have their pluses and minuses.

Samsung PN64F8500 (still within return policy window and open minded)
Oppo BDP-93
DirecTV HR-24
Denon AVR 2309-CI
Definitive Technology 5.1 system
Harmony One remote
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