Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 93 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2761 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

If this is filter related, what I'm thinking, it can not be corrected by any setting. I also do not think this would be a common issue, cause there are nearly no customer reports about. Said before this probably was a bad set, but I will look out for it on others.
Regarding the settings, think I found the right ones, as my calibration was pretty well.

Also have to say that the PQ was really amazing. Sharpness and video processing much better than my VT50. Did notice that the black optimzer worked better since the last firmware update to 1004 but still triggers on too low APL. If You see that there were 3 firmware updates since release, seems there is much to fix for Samsung but I expect black optimizer to work better in future.

don't recall a fw1004...org sh/b 1013 and the predecessor to that is 1015.

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post #2762 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 07:58 AM
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funny that I used Your mentioned settings, as for my desired luminance target cell light was 20 and contrast 75. Black Tone was OFF and Black Optimizer set to Dark Room. Could not see any ABL fluctuations so far. Also tested with contrast 80 (~134 cd/m²) and ABL fluctuations were also not an issue.
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don't recall a fw1004...org sh/b 1013 and the predecessor to that is 1015.

sorry, forgot to say this is an EU model.


BTW: does anyone know if the F8500 supports 48Hz input over HDMI? I forgot to read the EDID and don't have the TV anymore.
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post #2763 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 08:22 AM
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Hey Guys,

Got the ok from David to post my post cal settings. Here ya go. Post Call settings.pdf 28k .pdf file
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File Type: pdf Post Call settings.pdf (27.9 KB, 155 views)
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post #2764 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 08:27 AM
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Regarding the value of 3D recent discussion, after seeing 3D versions of How to Train Your Dragon and Avatar on my former 60E7000, and now current 60E8000, I FULLY agree that the 3D capabilities of these modern HD Plasma TV's are easily worth several hundred dollars in increased purchase price. Easily!!

Anybody who has a similarly capable TV and hasn't yet seen Life of Pi in 3D NEEDS to give that view at their earliest possible convenience. At times true visual 3D poetry is your reward. biggrin.gif

Totally agree. And Life of Pi in 3D is amazing. I sometimes feel that at least some people who purport not to like or not care about 3D haven't really watched a good 3D film (Prometheus, Life of Pi, Hugo) on a really good next-gen 3D set (and don't know quite what they are missing and/or unknowingly denying themselves). smile.gif While I always liked 3D in IMAX, I was never impressed with what I saw on home sets (too much crosstalk, lack of depth and/or definition, etc.. But that's all changed in the past year for me. Some of the 2012 and now the 2013 active 3D sets are really pretty astonishing and make movie watching (along with the excellent PQ and size) an incredibly engrossing experience. To each his own of course.

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post #2765 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 08:30 AM
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Waht were the differences for video games? How much does it cost?

There is an in depth description of the Darbee's effects for gaming included in the article that Icelt linked to a few posts up. Basically it just makes some of the textures look higher rez and less muddy due to the increased contrast. There is no effect on input lag. According the the Digital Foundry tests, there were no adverse effects to the enhancement at low levels, but David Abrams from Avical says that there is some resolution loss and says that Joe Kane is currently working on test patterns to demonstrate it.
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post #2766 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Hey Guys,

Got the ok from David to post my post cal settings. Here ya go. Post Call settings.pdf 28k .pdf file

Thanks always good to get as many data points as possible smile.gif
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post #2767 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Hey Guys,

Got the ok from David to post my post cal settings. Here ya go. Post Call settings.pdf 28k .pdf file

Thanks. I see you have black optimizer set to off. Have you tried it on yet?
Have you made any adjustments to your calibrated settings?
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post #2768 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 08:49 AM
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Exactly. Waiting. For 2013, not forever. Technology will move along and I'm happy for that. I'm not waiting for OLED, etc and I wouldn't expect anyone else to waste the next few years doing so.

I appreciate the views expressed in response to my curiosity. While I understand some of the rationale behind buying the first 2013 to ship, I will never understand why a reference tv would be used for watching daytime soaps or Oprah in broad daylight. Well, I guess some of you watch movies in the daylight of your living room, but I don't get that either (or sports, for that matter). Not on a reference panel. To each his own. I do wonder if conclusions can be reached as to the type of buyers who go for the F8500 rather than a VT60 or ZT60.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you're not married and/or don't have children. cool.gif (or maybe you have a dedicated home theater room outside of your usual living area perhaps...)

For me? There are times when my TV is a "reference TV", like the other night when I watched Skyfall - all the lights off, dark outside, drapes pulled, surround system driving all the AV glory home, etc). BTW It looked absolutely stunning in this set. I was just blown away by the audio and picture quality. But...

There are other times where my kid wants to watch Octonauts or, better, a Pixar movie (maybe even in 3D) during the - yup - the day! In our living room even. And maybe, just maybe, the family doesn't want all the curtains drawn and to be in darkness so we can see the TV.

This set allows versatility. I can watch any film I like at night and the incredible PQ looks nothing short of stunning (and could likely only be diminished by a meter reading or obsessive controlled viewing OCV? tongue.gif). But in the daytime, I have the option to let some ambient sun in the house and sit down and enjoy even a 3D movie and still enjoy great PQ. It really is kind of the best of both worlds.

Now this is all in theory and works for the most part in practice. It's why a bright plasma makes sense for my lifestyle.

If Samsung could cure the brightness pops I see in 3D material, Id never look back. If the VT allows the same or better performance. I'll look at it seriously if I can't live with the brightness pops n 3D. I also wouldn't mind a "low" setting for the MJC.

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post #2769 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Is it directional? (if you move off center does it go away?
you "could" have a defective set, but you may also jsut be more sensitive to the buzz frequency......
All Plasmas will "buzz" but ones sensitivity and the amount can differ from set to set....

I hear mine buzz a bit but only under certain scenarios. I hear it when close up behind t or sitting directly in front of it (around 12 feet away )if everything is pretty quiet, and especially with bright material on screen. I hear it right when the TV starts up and then it immediately diminishes to its normal, barely audible (and sometimes inaudible) level.

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post #2770 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

I hear mine buzz a bit but only under certain scenarios. I hear it when close up behind t or sitting directly in front of it (around 12 feet away )if everything is pretty quiet, and especially with bright material on screen. I hear it right when the TV starts up and then it immediately diminishes to its normal, barely audible (and sometimes inaudible) level.

That sounds just about what Robert reported and said it was "normal" 1 degree off center and the buzz would go away.....Most plasmas buzz, the amount and sensitivity vary by person and set however. From your explinations it seems that is "normal" plasma buzz, but I could be wrong.....
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post #2771 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:07 AM
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Hey Guys,

Got the ok from David to post my post cal settings. Here ya go. Post Call settings.pdf 28k .pdf file
Thanks for posting. Appreciate it!! I must say though, it's really hard to watch the tv with a cell light of 10, even at night. The tv pic seems so subdued. It's hard to see detail on the display, and I have a pitch black room for viewing. Bringing up the cell light to 14 helps a lot...at least for me. I am fine with cell light 20 during day use. I've got over 100 hours burn in time on my 51" 8500, and the picture has gotten even better than it did when I first viewed it. I had one issue that seemed to correct itself just a few days ago. I had a stuck pixel on the screen, which wouldn't change intensity, regardless if I turned off the tv, then back on, or if I changed channels. The pixel was a reddish color near the center of the screen. It was really hard to see from 6 ft back. You had to be up close to see it. Well, after a few days went by, the stuck pixel is gone....thank God!!
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post #2772 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:07 AM
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Hi All,

I'm not sure why some people are complaining about viewing angles, I have couches pretty much all around the viewing room and haven't been able to find a viewing angle that I thought was unwatchable.

I agree. I think the viewing angles are great and have trouble imagining a viewing scenario where the filter would cause an actual issue.
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I'm torn about how this thing handles motion. Most thing move very well compared to my old tv, but then every once in a while I get smacked in the face by some pretty bad judder. I've played around with some settings but I find it's either occasional judder or Soap Opera. To be honest, it's rare enough that I haven't spent too much time with the settings. Samsara's city vistas and speeding cars were handled with aplomb.

I'm torn about this as well. I generally like some frame interpolation on a lot of thinsg I watch. But the Samsung LCD sets allow 10 levels of granularity. The F8500 bascially has 2, both which I find a bit agressive. I'd love a "low" setting. Standard works for 3D, animation, documentaries, etc, but just looks a bit too SOE on some material IMO.

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The 3D is fantastic. Again, makes my D7000 look like a chump. I've tried some 3D br's and also tried the 2D-3D conversion, both bested my old panel handily.

Agreed, it is fantastic. The 2D to 3D conversion is surprisingly good.
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Did notice some video lag when gaming but it was only unacceptable during 1 of 5 games I played (Bioshock Infinite - which to be fair has been criticized for being laggy on Xbox). Once I turned on the game mode, that game was fine.

Rename your input to "PC" and it will cut the input lag by another good chunk that I felt was noticeable and brought the set inline with acceptable.

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post #2773 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:08 AM
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Hey Guys,

Got the ok from David to post my post cal settings. Here ya go. Post Call settings.pdf 28k .pdf file

Thanks David & mighty..
Always nice to see different settings BUT eagerly waiting for some cal settings for the 51", so far the settings for the 64" are not 51" compatible (PQ wise).
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post #2774 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:10 AM
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curious why film mode on auto2? what do you find diff there from off or auto1? thX!

Auto2 is the default for some reason. I haven't found any documentation that explains Auto1 and Auto2. Would love to know though.

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post #2775 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:14 AM
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Thanks David & mighty..
Always nice to see different settings BUT eagerly waiting for some cal settings for the 51", so far the settings for the 64" are not 51" compatible (PQ wise).
Why not?? Circuitry/firmware is same in all these models...just different screen sizes. Give me some info, please, as to why you think this way... ?? Those posted settings look mighty fine on my 51" screen....aside from the cell light 10 setting for dark viewing.
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post #2776 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:23 AM
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Glad you could find something smile.gif

Tron:Legacy maybe? I know people ahve watched Prometheus on the TV and really liked it as well......

Opening scene in Prometheus in 3D does it repeatedly and obviously (2D looks perfect). I know I've mentioned this a number of times...sorry...but would be great if someone could verify what I'm seeing. It starts as the camera is moving down the river towards the waterfall ahead and pans up to the ship. Then happens in the next scenes wth the engineer (on his face, in background, etc) before he finally falls into the water.

And this brings me to my fundamental problem with this set, even though I adore it in many many other respects): If this is Samsung's best picture quality available, and costs what it does, shouldn't I be able to watch one of the most recent 3D films without the entire picture changing brightness and hue repeatedly and obviously over a 30 second period? This is what keeps me on the fence and what I want to discuss with Sammy. Tier 2 support never called me back yesterday so I'll be calling this morning to hopefully get some kind of answer from them. Of course I'll relay any findings to the group here.

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post #2777 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Why not?? Circuitry/firmware is same in all these models...just different screen sizes. Give me some info, please, as to why you think this way... ?? Those posted settings look mighty fine on my 51" screen....aside from the cell light 10 setting for dark viewing.

As different people start to get professional calibrations you'll notice different panel sizes have greater variation between them when calibrated similarly than the variations between panels of the same size.
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post #2778 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

That sounds just about what Robert reported and said it was "normal" 1 degree off center and the buzz would go away.....Most plasmas buzz, the amount and sensitivity vary by person and set however. From your explinations it seems that is "normal" plasma buzz, but I could be wrong.....

I think so too and I appreciate your corroboration and thoughts on the subject.

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post #2779 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:32 AM
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Thanks for posting. Appreciate it!! I must say though, it's really hard to watch the tv with a cell light of 10, even at night. The tv pic seems so subdued. It's hard to see detail on the display, and I have a pitch black room for viewing. Bringing up the cell light to 14 helps a lot...at least for me. I am fine with cell light 20 during day use. I've got over 100 hours burn in time on my 51" 8500, and the picture has gotten even better than it did when I first viewed it. I had one issue that seemed to correct itself just a few days ago. I had a stuck pixel on the screen, which wouldn't change intensity, regardless if I turned off the tv, then back on, or if I changed channels. The pixel was a reddish color near the center of the screen. It was really hard to see from 6 ft back. You had to be up close to see it. Well, after a few days went by, the stuck pixel is gone....thank God!!

You're welcome. The cell light thing is surprising to me because it's pretty darn bright to me even at 10! I do have a pretty batcavey viewing space though...
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post #2780 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:35 AM
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Thanks. I see you have black optimizer set to off. Have you tried it on yet?
Have you made any adjustments to your calibrated settings?

Yes I use black optimizer set to Dark Room for Cal Night and Bright Room for Cal Day. I've messed around with the HDMI black level, and because of my experience with Zero Dark Thirty and some games, I've chosen to just leave it to Normal. I've also played around with the motion stuff but haven't found a sweet spot.
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post #2781 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:39 AM
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I'm torn about this as well. I generally like some frame interpolation on a lot of thinsg I watch. But the Samsung LCD sets allow 10 levels of granularity. The F8500 bascially has 2, both which I find a bit agressive. I'd love a "low" setting.
I'll give it a shot and report on findings. We have to figure out what the best option for this is...

Rename your input to "PC" and it will cut the input lag by another good chunk that I felt was noticeable and brought the set inline with acceptable.
Well I use this one input for all of my other equipment as well. So I wonder what the trade of for the lower lag is. Like will it be similar to the game mode and lock out some other options?
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post #2782 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:45 AM
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something else I noticed that I think warrants mentioning is that I was watching Justified on Amazon prime via my PS3 on the set when someone mentioned using the youtube app to look at some demo video. I saw a video I had already scene on youtube on this tv via my HTPC. Much to my surprise, I found that the video via the SMARTHUB youtube app looked much better to me than the version I saw on youtube via the HTPC. I decided to test this by watching the same Justified episode on the SMARTHUB Amazon Instant App. Once again, the SMARTHUB APP version looked way better than the PS3 version!. Found the same result to a lesser degree with Netflix and HBO Go. Maybe it's just a placebo effect, but I think the SMARTHUB clients for these app must be better optimized for our sets, than the client's for XBOX and PS3. I'd be curious to hear other's thoughts on this.
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post #2783 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 09:47 AM
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Yes I use black optimizer set to Dark Room for Cal Night and Bright Room for Cal Day. I've messed around with the HDMI black level, and because of my experience with Zero Dark Thirty and some games, I've chosen to just leave it to Normal. I've also played around with the motion stuff but haven't found a sweet spot.

do you find cal day/night to be better than movie mode? very tempted to open those up! also i didnt see any 10pt white bal info? ok if you cant publish just would like to know if i have missed something! thanks much

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do you find cal day/night to be better than movie mode? very tempted to open those up! also i didnt see any 10pt white bal info? ok if you cant publish just would like to know if i have missed something! thanks much

I haven't gone back to movie mode since the calibration was done. Just didn't see a need since I'm happy with the way it looks in the Cal mode. It wouldn't be fair to compare Cal mode (calibrated) to movie mode (uncalibrated). As far as 10 pt white balance I'm not sure, are those not the white balance values listed after color space?
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post #2785 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 10:03 AM
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I haven't gone back to movie mode since the calibration was done. Just didn't see a need since I'm happy with the way it looks in the Cal mode. It wouldn't be fair to compare Cal mode (calibrated) to movie mode (uncalibrated). As far as 10 pt white balance I'm not sure, are those not the white balance values listed after color space?

no, ljmart is correct i see no CMS #'s this is where you will find intervals from 1-10(10pt) with red through magenta.

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post #2786 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 10:23 AM
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I haven't gone back to movie mode since the calibration was done. Just didn't see a need since I'm happy with the way it looks in the Cal mode. It wouldn't be fair to compare Cal mode (calibrated) to movie mode (uncalibrated). As far as 10 pt white balance I'm not sure, are those not the white balance values listed after color space?

ok didnt know if movie m was or was not calibrated. as for other... there is just white bal then there is the 10pt white.... as someone mentioned 'thats where the magic happens' !! at least to my understanding!

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post #2787 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

I haven't gone back to movie mode since the calibration was done. Just didn't see a need since I'm happy with the way it looks in the Cal mode. It wouldn't be fair to compare Cal mode (calibrated) to movie mode (uncalibrated). As far as 10 pt white balance I'm not sure, are those not the white balance values listed after color space?

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ok didnt know if movie m was or was not calibrated. as for other... there is just white bal then there is the 10pt white.... as someone mentioned 'thats where the magic happens' !! at least to my understanding!

Which may be why they didnt add it to the settings printout wink.gif what we saw there was jsut a partial report and only the settings, I am sure there is more to the report wink.gif but the rest isnt really needed for settings....
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post #2788 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 10:33 AM
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no, ljmart is correct i see no CMS #'s this is where you will find intervals from 1-10(10pt) with red through magenta.

CMS and 10 point are two different things. CMS, Color Management System, is for adjusting primary and secondary colors using values from 0 to 100. The 10 point settings are for fine tuning the white balance/greyscale in 10 point intervals (whereas White Balance only uses 2 points).

Edit: the report posted by mightymouseusf has the CMS on Auto (i.e. not adjusted) and contains no 10 point settings.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.

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post #2789 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

CMS and 10 point are two different things. CMS, Color Management System, is for adjusting primary and secondary colors using values from 0 to 100. The 10 point settings are for fine tuning the white balance/greyscale in 10 point intervals (whereas White Balance only uses 2 points).

Edit: the report posted by mightymouseusf has the CMS on Auto (i.e. not adjusted) and contains no 10 point settings.

ok thanks! then am i understanding k.millers calibration settings correctly where his numbers after low/high red green blue (assume these are white balance offset/gains) to be 10pt white bal numbers?

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post #2790 of 13034 Old 04-16-2013, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Most plasmas buzz, the amount and sensitivity vary by person and set however. From your explanations it seems that is "normal" plasma buzz, but I could be wrong.....
I agree, these buzz about normal, the 64F8500 we had was quieter then the blu ray player.
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