2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 07:36 AM
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Can anyone explain what the IRE is and exactly what kind of picture you would notice setting changes at certain IRE levels? I.E. IRE 20 -6 Red, what type of picture would you have to look at to see a change in this setting? I just don't understand what it is at all.
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post #1262 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 07:52 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRE_(unit)

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post #1263 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 08:26 AM
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Total noob question, I just order the VT60 from Amazon yesterday and was planning on using D-Nice's settings eventually once he posts them. Since he hasn't yet, is it better to break the tv in with his slides now or to just watch normal 4:3 programming since there are no settings posted yet? Or would there be no difference as far as break in? i dont mind using the slides for 100 hours, so thats not an issue. i was hoping for some input from those of you who are way more experienced than myself. I will likely try Cnet's settings in the meantime. I tried searching the forum and found similar questions, but not quite the answer I was looking for and they were for different sets.

Thanks in advance!
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post #1264 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Can anyone explain what the IRE is and exactly what kind of picture you would notice setting changes at certain IRE levels? I.E. IRE 20 -6 Red, what type of picture would you have to look at to see a change in this setting? I just don't understand what it is at all.

Essentially it's a location on grey ramp. 0 being black & 100 being white. 10-90 being different stimulus of grey. To make up the grey patterns you have three colors, red/green/blue. In order to achieve a color temp of 6500 Kelvin(industry standard), you adjust red & blue to reach the desired temp. Why not green you ask? Because green is used to set the luminance of that particular level of grey. You use gamma to adjust you green stimulus either higher or lower, then once you have it dialed in, you adjust red/blue to balance out that grey pattern at the desired level. That is why when you see ire settings published usually red will be +/- a number & blue will be +/- a number. Green will usually be 0. If you use gamma to adjust for green, green essentially becomes your baseline.

Head over to the calibration forums if you really want to dive in & learn, but otherwise ire's are just levels for setting white balance.
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post #1265 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Cody1811 View Post

Total noob question, I just order the VT60 from Amazon yesterday and was planning on using D-Nice's settings eventually once he posts them. Since he hasn't yet, is it better to break the tv in with his slides now or to just watch normal 4:3 programming since there are no settings posted yet? Or would there be no difference as far as break in? i dont mind using the slides for 100 hours, so thats not an issue. i was hoping for some input from those of you who are way more experienced than myself. I will likely try Cnet's settings in the meantime. I tried searching the forum and found similar questions, but not quite the answer I was looking for and they were for different sets.

Thanks in advance!


you definitely do not want to run 4:3 programming with sidebars eek.gif D-nice slides seem find to me to run even if you do not use his settings, the are just solid color images. I was originally running the original break-in slides from dangelo for the first 75 hours or so then switched to d-nice for the last 30 or so. Slides are basically the same except I think dangelo had more colors/different shades of them.
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post #1266 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 08:56 AM
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I have a question. I was watching inception last night and I started to notice alot of noise/dithering during the movie. Now I sit about 14ft away from the screen and I could see it. Now I see it all the time is there anyway to adjust this in my settings. Brightness 84 contrast +2 and sharpness is at 20 in the custom settings so its weird that I notice it.

Any suggestions????
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post #1267 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

I have a question. I was watching inception last night and I started to notice alot of noise/dithering during the movie. Now I sit about 14ft away from the screen and I could see it. Now I see it all the time is there anyway to adjust this in my settings. Brightness 84 contrast +2 and sharpness is at 20 in the custom settings so its weird that I notice it.

Any suggestions????

Those two settings are fine. It's are hard to say. It could be several things, including the source(the movie itself).
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post #1268 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Those two settings are fine. It's are hard to say. It could be several things, including the source(the movie itself).

Ok cool, what I'll do is throw in a pixar movie tonight and post back this should be little to no grain in one of thos bad boys thanks for the quick response
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post #1269 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 10:23 AM
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Where is the noise and dithering? Is it specs in dark/shadow areas? it could be your Brightness / black level is set too high. Have you used anything to figure out where your black level / Brightness setting should be set?
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post #1270 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

you definitely do not want to run 4:3 programming with sidebars eek.gif D-nice slides seem find to me to run even if you do not use his settings, the are just solid color images. I was originally running the original break-in slides from dangelo for the first 75 hours or so then switched to d-nice for the last 30 or so. Slides are basically the same except I think dangelo had more colors/different shades of them.

Yep I'm a noob, I meant full screen material, I forgot that 4:3 is different. Well, sounds like I will just throw the tv in the guest room and run the slides for 100 hours, then start playing with different settings. Thanks for the reply!
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post #1271 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody1811 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

you definitely do not want to run 4:3 programming with sidebars eek.gif D-nice slides seem find to me to run even if you do not use his settings, the are just solid color images. I was originally running the original break-in slides from dangelo for the first 75 hours or so then switched to d-nice for the last 30 or so. Slides are basically the same except I think dangelo had more colors/different shades of them.

Yep I'm a noob, I meant full screen material, I forgot that 4:3 is different. Well, sounds like I will just throw the tv in the guest room and run the slides for 100 hours, then start playing with different settings. Thanks for the reply!
It might be helpful to get acquainted with aspect ratios.

Aspect Ratios I

Aspect Ratios II
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post #1272 of 3453 Old 07-12-2013, 04:29 PM
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Here are some interesting articles on the dangers of copying TV settings off the internet. Basically, unless your TV starts off very similar to the TV from the calibrated settings, you're either getting results that are no better or actually worse. In the 50 TVs they tested, only 4% had better PQ than just straight "cinema" mode after inputting random settings. And these were Pioneer Elite Plasmas.

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/05/i-know-what-love-is-i-mean-what-good-is/
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2012/12/the-fruits-of-copying-settings-the-pioneer-lottery/

If you look at and compare the various lists of settings, they are pretty drastically different, in terms of changing color and gamma balance.
Short of getting a pro out to calibrate your set, I think you're probably going to be better off calibrating just brightness/contrast and the basic settings on your own and leaving the TV in the best kind of Cinema mode...

My 2 cents...

I agree. I think you are just calibrating to the manufacturing tolerances of a particular set. The manufacturing tolerance of your set might be off in the opposite direction, in which case you are just making matters worse.

I would hypothesize that if one averages the calibration settings in the highest PQ mode of 30 or more sets from a first tier manufacturer, the average would be the factory default settings. This would be an interesting hypothesis to test.
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post #1273 of 3453 Old 07-19-2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

I have a question. I was watching inception last night and I started to notice alot of noise/dithering during the movie. Now I sit about 14ft away from the screen and I could see it. Now I see it all the time is there anyway to adjust this in my settings. Brightness 84 contrast +2 and sharpness is at 20 in the custom settings so its weird that I notice it.

Any suggestions????
I saw Inception at the theater and noticed it was a very noisy movie then. the Blu-ray is also.
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post #1274 of 3453 Old 07-19-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glantern30 View Post

I have a question. I was watching inception last night and I started to notice alot of noise/dithering during the movie. Now I sit about 14ft away from the screen and I could see it. Now I see it all the time is there anyway to adjust this in my settings. Brightness 84 contrast +2 and sharpness is at 20 in the custom settings so its weird that I notice it.

Any suggestions????
If you don't see the same thing in other Blu-ray movies then it's in the source for Inception. I'm assuming you were watching the Blu-ray version.
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post #1275 of 3453 Old 07-20-2013, 06:48 AM
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I talked my in laws into replacing their very old DLP with 65S60. I am looking for the calibration settings and all I can find are the ones for my ST65 by d-nice in the beginning post. Can someone tell me if these are OK to use on the S60 model if not point me to the S60 Calibration ?
I found this on Cnet also http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-591233/panasonic-tc-p50s60-picture-settings/
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post #1276 of 3453 Old 07-20-2013, 08:26 AM
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Ever since I hooked up my HDMI cable to my TC- 50s60, the default screen display size shrank, and any forced full screen res - h-fill, sidecut, zoom- results In a blurry picture. I have both my uverse box and TV set to 1080i, vivid, and full now - where it looks best, but doesn't fill the screen. My other tv - a Samsung- is set to 16:9 and looks great! I wish I could do the same for my panasonic. Does anyone have any settings they can share? Should i just go back to analog hook up? Thanks.
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post #1277 of 3453 Old 07-20-2013, 10:56 AM
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Ever since I hooked up my HDMI cable to my TC- 50s60, the default screen display size shrank, and any forced full screen res - h-fill, sidecut, zoom- results In a blurry picture. I have both my uverse box and TV set to 1080i, vivid, and full now - where it looks best, but doesn't fill the screen. My other tv - a Samsung- is set to 16:9 and looks great! I wish I could do the same for my panasonic. Does anyone have any settings they can share? Should i just go back to analog hook up? Thanks.

Analog is the worst connection you can use. There is no point of getting a HD plasma if you are going to use analog. The problem is your cable box, go into your aspect settings and double check them. Your tv should be set to set to full. Your box should be set to 1080i. Next if the problem is still there, try a different HDMI input on your tv, if its still there, try a different HDMI cable. Vivid is not a good setting to use, custom is best. Check Cnet if they have custom settings for your tv. Try that first.

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post #1278 of 3453 Old 07-21-2013, 06:43 AM
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After double checking settings, switching out cables, etc., it appears I need to upgrade to HD from AT&T. I don't understand why I wouldn't have the same issues with my Samsung. Anyone suggest I swap out receivers?
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post #1279 of 3453 Old 07-21-2013, 08:48 AM
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I had an issue with my ST60 yesterday. When I powered it on it wasn't detecting my receiver or cable box, although with my cable box the screen would flash blue intermittently. After I turned the TV off and then on again with the remote it detected my sources. Was this a bad handshake or something?

This is the first time this has happened in just over a month of owning my ST60.
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post #1280 of 3453 Old 07-21-2013, 09:07 AM
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I had an issue with my ST60 yesterday. When I powered it on it wasn't detecting my receiver or cable box, although with my cable box the screen would flash blue intermittently. After I turned the TV off and then on again with the remote it detected my sources. Was this a bad handshake or something?

This is the first time this has happened in just over a month of owning my ST60.

Assume you are using HDMI? If so sounds like HDCP handshake issue. Switching to component is one option.
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post #1281 of 3453 Old 07-21-2013, 10:32 AM
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Assume you are using HDMI? If so sounds like HDCP handshake issue. Switching to component is one option.

Yeah I'm using HDMI. If it's a handshake thing I'm not too worried about it. Thanks for replying!
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post #1282 of 3453 Old 07-21-2013, 03:05 PM
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After double checking settings, switching out cables, etc., it appears I need to upgrade to HD from AT&T. I don't understand why I wouldn't have the same issues with my Samsung. Anyone suggest I swap out receivers?

Are you telling us that you don't have an HD cable box with HD programming? No wonder it looks like crap, you need an HD receiver. rolleyes.gif

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post #1283 of 3453 Old 07-22-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Raikirik View Post

I had an issue with my ST60 yesterday. When I powered it on it wasn't detecting my receiver or cable box, although with my cable box the screen would flash blue intermittently. After I turned the TV off and then on again with the remote it detected my sources. Was this a bad handshake or something?

This is the first time this has happened in just over a month of owning my ST60.

I was having a similar problem, but with a pink screen every now and then instead. Although handshake was the obvious problem, the solution took me a while. Eventually I had my Harmony One remote power on my sources in this order: AVR, TV, Cable Box. I haven't had a pink screen since. *crosses fingers*
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post #1284 of 3453 Old 07-22-2013, 04:20 PM
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Hey members,

I don;t know if this questions has been asked and answered before in this thread. But it's a question begging to be asked. D=Nice was nice enough to adjust the ST60 and posted the number that he said would make this model as close to the perfect. That's great and much appreciated. However! CNET and HD GURU also did the same thing and posted their numbers. And NONE of them are even close to each other. Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, W/B, Gamma and the rest. So the question is. Which numbers should someone like me who has a TCP-60ST60 with well over 100 hours of viewing on it already use to get my TV as close to the "standard" or as close to perfect as possible if they all have such different and varying numbers????

Unless I and others have one of those calibration tools and all the graphic to see the pre and post adjustments, how would one be able to tell if the CNET numbers, or the HD GURU or D-NICE number are the ones that will best bring the TV as close to perfect????eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

I am really curious to know the answer to this because if the TV are all from the same factory and using pretty much the same component on the same production line. The then I believe the numbers should be very close to each other than what I and others have seen so far.
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post #1285 of 3453 Old 07-22-2013, 05:34 PM
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Unless I and others have one of those calibration tools and all the graphic to see the pre and post adjustments, how would one be able to tell if the CNET numbers, or the HD GURU or D-NICE number are the ones that will best bring the TV as close to perfect????eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

Use the free AVS709HD Black Clipping pattern to see if Brightness is set right, White Clipping for Contrast, and grayscale ramps to detect tinting. Beyond this, it's just a matter of seeing if high quality source material looks good. Here are some links to reviews where the appearance of various source material is discussed:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50st50/4505-6482_7-35117941-2.html
http://www.hometheater.com/content/sony-kdl-55hx850-3d-lcd-hdtv-page-2
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn51e8000/4505-6482_7-35117934-2.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p50u50/4505-6482_7-35149658-2.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60zt60/4505-6482_7-35567247-2.html

When assessing black levels, be aware that not all "obviously" black scenes are true black. For example, there are lots of space scenes in "2001" where outer space is considerably brighter than pure black. Also, the non-black parts of scenes greatly influence how the black level is perceived. All these plasmas will glow on a pure black slide, but small amounts of other content in real material will often cause the blacks to appear as deeply black as the bezels.

For colors, Disney WoW has a handful of nice reference images. The blue filters and gamma patterns however don't work well for plasmas, and I wouldn't even bother with them. If skin tones look overly red or green in a variety of high quality source material, then something's probably off.
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post #1286 of 3453 Old 07-22-2013, 05:36 PM
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Let your eyes be the judge.
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post #1287 of 3453 Old 07-22-2013, 07:24 PM
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Hey members,

I don;t know if this questions has been asked and answered before in this thread. But it's a question begging to be asked. D=Nice was nice enough to adjust the ST60 and posted the number that he said would make this model as close to the perfect. That's great and much appreciated. However! CNET and HD GURU also did the same thing and posted their numbers. And NONE of them are even close to each other. Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, W/B, Gamma and the rest. So the question is. Which numbers should someone like me who has a TCP-60ST60 with well over 100 hours of viewing on it already use to get my TV as close to the "standard" or as close to perfect as possible if they all have such different and varying numbers????
No two TV sets come off of an assembly line identical. Pioneer aimed at a 5% variance in quality control. My guess is that Panasonic, Samsung, and LG are aiming at a higher number.
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Unless I and others have one of those calibration tools and all the graphic to see the pre and post adjustments, how would one be able to tell if the CNET numbers, or the HD GURU or D-NICE number are the ones that will best bring the TV as close to perfect?
If you want to be sure, hire D-Nice or someone in his class that does tours to your area. Otherwise, use the settings that please you the most. You can also follow sawfish's suggestions and learn to tweak your set starting from the published settings that seem best to you.
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I am really curious to know the answer to this because if the TV are all from the same factory and using pretty much the same component on the same production line. The then I believe the numbers should be very close to each other than what I and others have seen so far.
As I wrote, that's not a valid assumption. Also, if you didn't exactly follow D-Nice's instructions for the first 100 hours, then the variation from a professional calibration will be even greater.
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post #1288 of 3453 Old 07-23-2013, 07:21 AM
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No two TV sets come off of an assembly line identical...
If you want to be sure, hire D-Nice or someone in his class that does tours to your area. Otherwise, use the settings that please you the most. ....

htwaits is correct when he says the reason for the variation between individual settings is due to differences in the panel. I think the value in looking at other people's settings is in determining a base point for making your own adjustments. For example, you will see that almost everyone uses Custom and Warm2. That can save you a lot of time in figuring out where to start with your own adjustment (ie, don't start with Vivid and then try and get an accurate picture).

I just had my 60ST60 calibrated by Chad B. Previously I was using Cadett's settings as a base and then tweaked by me using the Spears and Munsil test pattern disk. I tried several other settings before using Cadett's as the baseline for my set and found that his were a closer match for my particular panel.

After the professional calibration by Chad, the picture has become much more lifelike with flesh tones looking much more accurate. He was also able to get a brighter picture which helps with my less than optimal lighting situation. You can see the results in Chad's report (actual settings removed at Chad's request). Ricemanva Pan 60ST60 Custom.pdf 731k .pdf file I am very happy with the results of the calibration. In the report you can see the difference that using calibrated meters vs using someone else's settings can make in terms of accuracy.

At the end of the day, what matters is what looks good to you. Using the test patterns from the AVS files, the Disney WOW disk or any of the others may make it easier for you to get to a picture that looks good to you.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ricemanva Pan ST60 Custom no settings.pdf (731.4 KB, 82 views)
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post #1289 of 3453 Old 07-23-2013, 07:36 AM
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Nice cal and I agree with your points the more folks that understand this the less misperception there will be about sharing settings.

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post #1290 of 3453 Old 07-23-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricemanva View Post


I just had my 60ST60 calibrated by Chad B.
Thanks for posting your calibration comments. I've added a link to your post in the flat panel (post number two) lists that are linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.

If you have further comments to make about your audio or video calibration, it would be great if you could use the edit command to add them to your original post.

Enjoy. smile.gif
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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