2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

You can achieve a reference WB & Color calibration graph with the brightness & contrast set incorrectly.

Then how would one ever know if it was set correctly?
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post #1442 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JayPSU View Post

Then how would one ever know if it was set correctly?
Experience. You can burn the AVS709 disc to a dvd. Go to the brightness pattern & see if it correct. The contrast setting is usually set with a meter. With this set anything from 75-85 would be sufficient(Depending on the lighting of the room). This is with the panel set to mid though, however setting the panel to low does very little. There is more of a jump going from mid to high then there is going from low to mid.
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post #1443 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Experience. You can burn the AVS709 disc to a dvd. Go to the brightness pattern & see if it correct. The contrast setting is usually set with a meter. With this set anything from 75-85 would be sufficient(Depending on the lighting of the room). This is with the panel set to mid though, however setting the panel to low does very little. There is more of a jump going from mid to high then there is going from low to mid.
That is also true of the 50 series.

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post #1444 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Experience. You can burn the AVS709 disc to a dvd. Go to the brightness pattern & see if it correct. The contrast setting is usually set with a meter. With this set anything from 75-85 would be sufficient(Depending on the lighting of the room). This is with the panel set to mid though, however setting the panel to low does very little. There is more of a jump going from mid to high then there is going from low to mid.


For about sixty-five years, people have been setting the contrast without meters. If the picture is too dim and dull, the contrast control is increased. If the screen is so bright that it hurts your eyes, decrease the contrast control.

Larry
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post #1445 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

For about sixty-five years, people have been setting the contrast without meters. If the picture is too dim and dull, the contrast control is increased. If the screen is so bright that it hurts your eyes, decrease the contrast control.

Larry
lol People used to start cars by cranking them by hand too.

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post #1446 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

lol People used to start cars by cranking them too.


Let's not get silly. Those of us with meters are an insignificant portion of TV viewers. It is arrogant to think that only we are able to set the contrast properly. Go argue with Michael over in the calibration forum if you believe that a meter is required.

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post #1447 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

For about sixty-five years, people have been setting the contrast without meters. If the picture is too dim and dull, the contrast control is increased. If the screen is so bright that it hurts your eyes, decrease the contrast control.

Larry

Thanks for the tip. I'll add it to my arsenal.
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post #1448 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Let's not get silly. Those of us with meters are an insignificant portion of TV viewers. It is arrogant to think that only we are able to set the contrast properly. Go argue with Michael over in the calibration forum if you believe that a meter is required.

Larry
A meter is only required to do it properly. I was just amused at your oversimplification.

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post #1449 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:06 PM
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A meter is not needed to set the Contrast... you can use your eyes and a test pattern like the AVS white clipping pattern. You just have to make sure there's no clipping or discoloration. Then just make sure that you don't experience eye strain. A meter cannot help you determine this, it just tells you how bright your white level is.
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post #1450 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

I agree with Larry... a meter is not needed to set the Contrast... you can use your eyes and a test pattern like the AVS white clipping pattern. You just have to make sure there's no clipping or discoloration. Then just make sure that you don't experience eye strain. A meter cannot help you determine this, it just tells you how bright your white level is.
Correct a meter is not needed, but it's helpful to know how much light you are outputting.
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post #1451 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

A meter is only required to do it properly. I was just amused at your oversimplification.

Oversimplification? You are insulting all the people that used their TVs before disks and meters were available -- that's more than fifty years worth of people worldwide and that's a lot of people.

Larry
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post #1452 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Oversimplification? You are insulting all the people that used their TVs before disks and meters were available -- that's more than fifty years worth of people worldwide and that's a lot of people.

Larry
Sorry. biggrin.gif

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post #1453 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Experience. You can burn the AVS709 disc to a dvd. Go to the brightness pattern & see if it correct. The contrast setting is usually set with a meter. With this set anything from 75-85 would be sufficient(Depending on the lighting of the room). This is with the panel set to mid though, however setting the panel to low does very little. There is more of a jump going from mid to high then there is going from low to mid.

The gentleman who did my calibration was using this very disc and when he was finished the calibration he used some of the test patterns on the disc to double check himself.
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post #1454 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:24 PM
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Bond,

What meter do you use now to set your contrast? And what meter did you use twenty years ago?

And before you ask, I have a colorimeter and a spectrometer neither of which has ever been used to set contrast. Twenty years ago I set the contrast the same as I do now -- without a meter since I had none.

Larry

edited to correct spelling
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post #1455 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Bond,

What meter do you use now to set your contrast? And what meter did you use twenty years ago?

And before you ask, I have a colorimeter and a spectometer neither of which has ever been used to set contrast. Twenty years ago I set the contrast the same as I do now -- without a meter since I had none.

Larry
I was talking about more than contrast and I have no meter.
Relax. You no longer amuse me.

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post #1456 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I was talking about more than contrast and I have no meter.
Relax. You no longer amuse me.

Right. Change the subject, say you were misunderstood, and insult again.

Good night, children. Sleep well.

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post #1457 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 09:00 PM
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I use a meter to set my contrast to 35fl. I like to know how much light I'm outputting. This is a common practice by a lot of people. Not necessary but useful. If you choose not to know, then good for you.
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post #1458 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JayPSU View Post

The gentleman who did my calibration was using this very disc and when he was finished the calibration he used some of the test patterns on the disc to double check himself.
We're just trying to let you know that the numbers you are reporting seem way off(mainly brightness). If you are fine & confident with it, so be it.
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post #1459 of 3453 Old 08-16-2013, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

I use a meter to set my contrast to 35fl. I like to know how much light I'm outputting. This is a common practice by a lot of people. Not necessary but useful. If you choose not to know, then good for you.
I agree. I usually target around 35fL for a darker room because I know that how bright I like my picture to be. But ultimately I still use my eyes.
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post #1460 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 06:35 AM
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As far as how much light output, it just depends on the screen size and seating distance. The bigger the screen and closer the seating distance means less light output needed and necessary to minimize eye strain particularly in a dark room. I am around 8 - 8.5 feet back from my 65VT60 at 33 ftl in a dark room and that is probably just a hair too bright for me although it was perfect when I had my 65ST30, but I am sitting about a foot closer now so that changes things a little. The better contrast of the VT60 also surely plays a role.
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post #1461 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 02:29 PM
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Here are the results of a calibration that I did on my 65VT60 a week ago:

grayscale


gamma


CIE diagram



Data was taken with my i1 D3 colorimeter profiled to my i1 Pro spectrometer.

Max luminance is 30.8 ftL. Min luminance is 0.00144 ftL.

Need to do a little work on the saturation points. Maybe next week when I get some free time.


Larry
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post #1462 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

I use a meter to set my contrast to 35fl. I like to know how much light I'm outputting. This is a common practice by a lot of people. Not necessary but useful. If you choose not to know, then good for you.

Hey caddet im still in my 90 day period of buying my 65 inch s64 from costco, one nagging issue in the back of my mind is that the brightness is still pretty weak

can you by any chance measure your st60 and see what kind of foot lamberts you get with a 100% white image

From what I read the tcp65s64 gets a pretty low number (something like 11 foot lamberts with 100 white frown.gif) while the st60 gets around 18
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post #1463 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by shenaniganz08 View Post

Hey caddet im still in my 90 day period of buying my 65 inch s64 from costco, one nagging issue in the back of my mind is that the brightness is still pretty weak

can you by any chance measure your st60 and see what kind of foot lamberts you get with a 100% white image

From what I read the tcp65s64 gets a pretty low number (something like 11 foot lamberts with 100 white frown.gif) while the st60 gets around 18
Read Chad B's review, he has it in his write up.
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post #1464 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Snip
Data was taken with my i1 D3 colorimeter profiled to my i1 Pro spectrometer.

Max luminance is 30.8 ftL. Min luminance is 0.00144 ftL.

Need to do a little work on the saturation points. Maybe next week when I get some free time.


Larry

I am glad you got rid of your D2, and you are now using a D3. wink.gif
I think you will like using the 30.8 flt. wink.gif

I think your meter may be a little off with your Min luminance (0.00144 ftL) reading looking at your CIE chart. Keep a eye on that reading when you adjust your CIE chart.
Try and stay away from your Gamma gain adjustments, it looks like you are staying away from adjusting Green that's good.

Without seeing your numbers and settings It is hard to gauge, once you are all done run all the charts and see/test how close they come too what you are seeing now without doing any adjustments when you run all the test's. That will help you understand if your meter is a tad off and where your settings may vary. smile.gif
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post #1465 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 06:17 PM
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Thanks, silly. But I've been doing this stuff for about 7 years now. I think I know what I am doing.

Anyway, thanks for telling me that my new meter is no good. It's great that you can tell that from looking at a chart. (0.005 cd/m^2 -- 0.00493 cd/m^2 on mine -- is about what everyone is getting on the 65VT60.)


Bye,
Larry
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post #1466 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 06:44 PM
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Np, I always like to help.

Yes I have been doing this for about as many years as you, but the more I learn the more I understand how a calibration can be flawed. And I sure you know that your charts mean next to nothing without the corresponding numbers an settings. So what was the point of posting those charts.

No I am not saying your new D3 has any problems outside of what it can and can't do, It sure is a improvement over your old D2 as I have suggested to you. All I am saying is keep a eye on your low luminance readings. Its that point outside your CIE chart at about 06/04 that is suggesting to me its off.

Yes I have posted the range is around 0.0014 to 0.0011, but that all depends on your finished calibration. smile.gif
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post #1467 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 08:00 PM
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ss, I know you like to help people, but Larry is also an experienced DIY calibrator... IF he needed help he would ask for it in the appropriate forum. At this point it just seems like you're trying to push his buttons whenever you get a chance. There's obviously something you two disagree on, but just agree to disagree and move on.
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post #1468 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

ss, I know you like to help people, but Larry is also an experienced DIY calibrator... IF he needed help he would ask for it in the appropriate forum. At this point it just seems like you're trying to push his buttons whenever you get a chance. There's obviously something you two disagree on, but just agree to disagree and move on.

What's wrong with offering opinions and suggests on an online forum? Just because someone has "experience", doesn't mean they're above critique.

He seems to have pretty thin skin and gets offended easily. Hes taken offense to a few ppl recently at no cause. This is just another case. SS said nothing inappropriate...

If you have thin skin or can't take critique, don't post.
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post #1469 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

What's wrong with offering opinions and suggests on an online forum? Just because someone has "experience", doesn't mean they're above critique.

He seems to have pretty thin skin and gets offended easily. Hes taken offense to a few ppl recently at no cause. This is just another case. SS said nothing inappropriate...

If you have thin skin or can't take critique, don't post.
+1 I wasnt going to say anything but that pretty much sums it up for me.

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post #1470 of 3453 Old 08-17-2013, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

What's wrong with offering opinions and suggests on an online forum? Just because someone has "experience", doesn't mean they're above critique.

He seems to have pretty thin skin and gets offended easily. Hes taken offense to a few ppl recently at no cause. This is just another case. SS said nothing inappropriate...

If you have thin skin or can't take critique, don't post.
There's nothing wrong with offering opinions or suggestions. Initially ss was just trying to be helpful by offering Larry advice with how he calibrates, not knowing Larry is also an experienced DIYer. But when it comes to calibration, there are just some things that people do differently and they have been arguing through PMs and through posts for weeks now. If it is what I think they're arguing about, it is somewhat of a subjective topic. Lately I've seen ss continuing to try to push his buttons and frankly I just want their arguing to stop. If I missed some posts where Larry was doing the same, I apologize to ss. But in the end, they obviously disagree on something and that's not going to change.

And FWIW, Larry is open to suggestions when he needs help... he has asked questions in the Display Calibration forum before, where discussion about calibration belongs.
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