Two budget plasma questions (image retention and Wii) (Panasonic vs Samsung) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 04-03-2013, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I am finally about to upgrade from my old 27" CRT, since the lines have taken over the screen. I have been doing some research, and it seems like plasma may be the best route for my budget and needs. I will not be using cable, and I will mostly be watching Netflix (streaming) and some Amazon TV episodes. Also, I will be playing the crap out of old NES games throug the Wii.

I was in Best Buy and saw the Samsung PN43F4500AFXZA and Panasonic TC-P42X60. They both looked pretty good, although I could definitely see the stairstep effect on text. My questions are:

1. I have heard about image retention issues when an image stays in one place on the screen for a while. I am worried about my kid leaving the Wii games paused for long periods of time. Is that a habit I will have to break, or is image retention not really a big deal? Also, it looks like the Panasonic has a screensaver to deal with this. Can anyone confirm or deny this, and does anyone know if the Samsung has a similar feature?

2. Since both my Wii and DVD player output at 480, will the image look cruddy on either of these 720 TV's? I have also considered the Vizio E420i-A0 in the LED world. Would that give a better or worse image since it is 1080?

Thanks for any help you can offer.
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post #2 of 12 Old 04-03-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mrdude View Post

I am finally about to upgrade from my old 27" CRT, since the lines have taken over the screen. I have been doing some research, and it seems like plasma may be the best route for my budget and needs. I will not be using cable, and I will mostly be watching Netflix (streaming) and some Amazon TV episodes. Also, I will be playing the crap out of old NES games throug the Wii.

I was in Best Buy and saw the Samsung PN43F4500AFXZA and Panasonic TC-P42X60. They both looked pretty good, although I could definitely see the stairstep effect on text. My questions are:

1. I have heard about image retention issues when an image stays in one place on the screen for a while. I am worried about my kid leaving the Wii games paused for long periods of time. Is that a habit I will have to break, or is image retention not really a big deal? Also, it looks like the Panasonic has a screensaver to deal with this. Can anyone confirm or deny this, and does anyone know if the Samsung has a similar feature?

2. Since both my Wii and DVD player output at 480, will the image look cruddy on either of these 720 TV's? I have also considered the Vizio E420i-A0 in the LED world. Would that give a better or worse image since it is 1080?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

I would definitely take it easy on static images including, video game images, for the first 200 hours of viewing or so. After that you should be ok. Plasmas do better with image retention as they age so it seems. Many of today’s sets are good at upscaling from SD sources. I haven’t done any research on the panels you mention but I bet they are decent with upscaling. BTW, the Samsung you mentions is reasonably priced on Amazon right now.
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post #3 of 12 Old 04-03-2013, 02:20 PM
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If you're on a budget, I can give you some recommendations. Please do not fear IR, while they're certainly there, there's no danger. I would worry more about input lag since you will be using your Wii. Wii, as you know, outputs in 480p resolution, but today's 720p plasmas only have native resolution of 1024*768. They used to make it in 1368*768, but not anymore. Many of Wii games, if not most, supports anamorphic resolution, which means blowing up 4:3 aspect ration into 16:9. Today's 1024*786 720p plasmas work the same way. They have 4:3 native resolution, but because the pixels are wider, they're automatically blown into 16:9. This actually works the best with the Wii, since upscaling 640*480 SD image into 1024*768 will take minimal fuss, and you will automatically enjoy the benefit of anamorphic pictures. I've tried many PS2,Xbox,Gamecube,Wii,Dreamcast games with LG 720p plasma and SD games look wonderful, and widescreen games work the best. With Xbox360 and PS3, the image will lose some clarity as it will be downscaling.

Panasonic X5, Samsung E450, LG PA4500 all are great displays on their own. If you're looking for a reliable product, you can't go wrong with Panasonic. If you want great picture out of the box, the Samsung E450 will be the best. If you don't mind little tweaking, a black tweaked LG plasma will give you a flagship picture quality at a bargain price. I had LG PT550, which was a two year old 720p plasma, and while stock picture quality is only ok, they became phenomenal and competed well with much more expensive Samsung E8000 plasma once its black was tweaked. The TV actually became more reliable after the tweak. No more IR, brightness fluctuation, and the panel became very cool to touch. LG plasmas typically don't buzz so I didn't notice any changes with buzzing. I would have kept it if only its input lag was little better, but 58ms can be tolerable to many people. The Samsung plasma can also be tweaked for better black btw.
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post #4 of 12 Old 04-04-2013, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the insight KOF. With all the fancy games that are out there nowadays, I still prefer to play Zelda through the Wii. Now I just need to find a way to play Moon Patrol through the Wii!

Also, thanks for the heads up about input lag. Another thread on here suggests avoiding the 2013 X60 Panasonic plasmas because of high input lag, so I think the Samsung is my top choice right now. I haven't seen that X5 model in any stores so far. I'll take a look at that LG you mentioned as well. I wish some of these models had analog out. It seems like an uncommon feature nowadays (only saw it on some Vizio's).
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post #5 of 12 Old 04-04-2013, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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After looking at the input lag thread again, it appears the issue was with the Panasonic TX-P42ST60 model.
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post #6 of 12 Old 04-04-2013, 09:07 AM
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We recently got a Samsung PN43E450 for our break room at work. This is a pretty low budget plasma; I think we paid somewhere around $400 for it. We have a PS3 hooked up to it and we play games and watch BD/DVD movies on it but overall it doesn't get used very often, probably only a couple hours per day if that. We've had it for a few months now and I play Gran Turismo on it a few times a week for 30 minutes or less. I had the screen display in the game set a little smaller leaving a 1" black outline on all 4 sides of the screen, much like letterbox bars on a widescreen film. Well, even after this limited use, there is permanent burn-in around the outside edge and also a burn in from the rear-view mirror at the top of the screen in GT5. It's not super noticeable or invasive but it is there depending on the color of the screen. On light colored screens it is more visible but on full screen video it is hard to see if you're not looking for it. I've asked a few people and they couldn't see it until I pointed it out.

In comparison, I have 2 much higher end plasmas at home. I have a Pioneer Kuro from 2009 that has never once shown even the slightest hint of image retention or burn in. It's gotten a lot of use over the last 4 years and I've left stuff paused on there for hours before (on accident). I have a Panasonic GT25 from 2011 which has also seen a lot of use. The Panasonic has had a decent amount of IR from the day I took it out of the box but it has always washed away. I have a habit of watching movies on the PS3 in 1.5x speed which shows up in the bottom right hand corner with a little arrow. After doing this for about 2 years, that image is permanently burned in. It's mostly noticeable on light screens but it still visible on full screen video if I try to see it.

It's my experience that the more expensive TVs are less susceptible to burn-in and/or IR than the cheap ones. Even at its low price I'm surprised that Samsung burned in like that after such limited use. At a lower price point I might consider LCD instead even though I'm a major plasma proponent.

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post #7 of 12 Old 04-05-2013, 08:12 PM
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2. Since both my Wii and DVD player output at 480, will the image look cruddy on either of these 720 TV's?

It'll look cruddy on pretty much any large TV. But you can help it a bit by getting some component cables for the Wii and changing it to output 480p in the system menu.
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post #8 of 12 Old 04-15-2013, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I looked at the Panasonic and Samsung plasmas at Best Buy today, and I noticed...

-The Panasonic has much better built in speakers.
-The Panasonic seems to be less reflective of lights.
-Although the colors looked more vivid on the Panasonic, they looked more natural on the Samsung. This may be adjustable, but I couldn't find any remotes in the short time I was there.
-The Panasonic took about twice as long to power on.
-The stairstep effect of letters was more pronounced on the Panasonic, but I have no idea why if they are both 720p.

I think overall I liked the Panasonic better, but I can't find any in depth reviews on the internet (which makes me a little hesitant).
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post #9 of 12 Old 04-20-2013, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know which of these two plasma tvs handles SD sports better?
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post #10 of 12 Old 04-20-2013, 09:34 PM
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I have a Panasonic C2 which is an older 720p set and although I experienced some minor IR when it was new, I never experienced burn in. Now that it has some mileage on it, IR isn't even an issue anymore. Based on what I've read on this forum it really varies depending on the TV, regardless of the cost. I've read many IR complaints from those who have high end sets, including the Panasonic VT series. Watching plenty of full screen content and keeping brightness and contrast at reasonable levels will reduce IR and prevent burn in on most pdp's.



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post #11 of 12 Old 04-20-2013, 10:44 PM
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My experience echos the same. When I first had an LG PT550, I immediately begun playing games at maximum brightness, impatiently expecting IR to come out. "IR, IR, I know you're there, so come out wherever you are." lol To my disappointment (lol), I've failed to actually see one, so I gave up. I was only only able to find it while I was adjusting pots to improve blacks, immediately vanishing as soon as I was done. (I think it was VSC that made the picture go super bright and showed IR)
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post #12 of 12 Old 04-26-2013, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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This weekend I plan to purchase either the Panasonic TC-P42X60 or the PN43F4500, and likely an Apple TV as well. I am still on the fence about which TV to go for and will likely make a gut decision at the store. Any last minute suggestions or feedback are most welcome. Thanks.
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