Official ST60 input lag thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garnettrules21 View Post

I wrote them on twitter "good review. Interesting numbers on input lag. Most reviews state it's at 60-80, extremely bad." and they responded back with "yeah, noticed that but we only got numbers in that range with IFC activated."
The mystery continues. I'm just interested in hearing from someone who plays games like Call of Duty where every ms counts.

As I have stated before, I am not noticing any input lag. And all I play is COD online (well... about 80% of my gaming). If you are worried about input lag for online play... you shouldn't be. Internet/server lag will be way more of an issue.

Since almost all of my gaming is online, I am happy with this TV. But, if you are using it for a monitor, timing based games or old school 2D games (NES, SNES ext) I am not sure this will be the best TV for you. I am not using this TV for any of that, so I am VERY happy. At this point I am just interested what the actual input lag is???? We have see measurements anywhere from 35ms to over 100ms, crazy!!

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post #272 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 07:57 AM
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COD really doesn't demand every ms like previously stated. That's more about who is in the advantageous position when the encounter occurs. The games where it mattes will be Street Fighters, Mortal Kombats, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom.... those. And online, those servers suck so bad, that once again lol prob comes down to skill rather than losing a frame when your opponent threw out his haduken juggle ultimate combo setup:cool:
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post #273 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkAELSU View Post

COD really doesn't demand every ms like previously stated. That's more about who is in the advantageous position when the encounter occurs. The games where it mattes will be Street Fighters, Mortal Kombats, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom.... those. And online, those servers suck so bad, that once again lol prob comes down to skill rather than losing a frame when your opponent threw out his haduken juggle ultimate combo setup:cool:
Yea, that's true. Server lag is way worse, especially at my house. I think I'm still gonna hold off on the tv until we can get some rock solid answers on input lag. The numbers are just varying too much for me to take the plunge.
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post #274 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 08:40 AM
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I'm about to pull the trigger, at this point $1423 from ABT for 60" ST60 is almost too good a deal, even if input lag IS THERE. I have a 111,000 gamerscore on xbox so I def know my games. If input lag is there, I'll know and feel it on games like Geometry wars, super meat boy, and street fighter. I'll be sure to give my impressions. I have a monitor of PC play, and wouldn't use this plasma for pc gaming anyway so my opinion won't speak for such an experience.
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post #275 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 09:21 AM
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Just played Black Ops 2 last night on the 60st60, going from a 55st30, there is definitely an input lag difference, you can tell because it feels just like I'm playing on my friend's LED TV. It's very slight and takes some getting used to but it's definitely there, it's disappointing that Panasonic would screw this up, Plasma is usually perfect for gaming, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

As far as settings go, I'm using D-Nice settings with the GAME mode turned on, all the extra crap is disabled. If I'm not doing something right, let me know.

Hopefully it's a software fix, but judging from previous years major Panasonic problems (Floating/rising black levels), I doubt it.
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post #276 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 10:24 AM
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Is the input lag bad on both PC and console gaming or specific to one platform? I do not own a console and only play PC games like BF3.
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post #277 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 12:00 PM
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Would I notice this supposed input lag coming from LCD gaming? I've always been under the impression that IR is more severe on LCDs than plasma displays, and I've never been able to tell playing on the former. I was extremely psyched for this display after reading about how it fares in well-lit rooms, but because I plan on using this for gaming I may stick with LCD.

Also, just as an additional note, here in Canada the 55" model costs $200 more than the 60" model costs in the states.
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post #278 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 12:18 PM
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The input lag debate is still a huge question mark IMO. I'm just saying nothing and nobody's tests are concrete yet. One person will get this number, another site a not so bad number.
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post #279 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAELSU View Post

COD really doesn't demand every ms like previously stated. That's more about who is in the advantageous position when the encounter occurs. The games where it mattes will be Street Fighters, Mortal Kombats, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom.... those.

And I own all those. Not tournament level or anything, more like level "I beat the computer, but anyone with skill can destroy me"

If all I played was Madden or something I wouldn't worry so much.

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post #280 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post

"Check back tomorrow, April 23rd, when we upload the results of our input lag test."

I'm thinking someone's missed a deadline. Hope we'll see something tomorrow!
Ya, isn't this just the worse?! Outstanding, affordable set but with input lag that's just in the too high range.

I emailed Lee and asked him when the input lag measurements would be posted. I mentioned that the article said it would be posted on the 23rd and to check back.

About 15 minutes later I received this response:

Hi David,

I updated the ST60 review with our calibration specs and the input lag results this morning. Unfortunately, due to caching, the results may not appear on the review until later today/tomorrow morning. I can say that we experienced very little actual input/display lag, even with the ST60 connected to a wireless network. We don't have a way to objectively measure input lag yet (we haven't had time to implement the test in its entirety), so individual sensitivities to lag may vary, but in the experience of our staff there was little of note to report.
Thanks for reading!

Lee

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post #281 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermandlb View Post

I emailed Lee and asked him when the input lag measurements would be posted. I mentioned that the article said it would be posted on the 23rd and to check back.

About 15 minutes later I received this response:

Hi David,

I updated the ST60 review with our calibration specs and the input lag results this morning. Unfortunately, due to caching, the results may not appear on the review until later today/tomorrow morning. I can say that we experienced very little actual input/display lag, even with the ST60 connected to a wireless network. We don't have a way to objectively measure input lag yet (we haven't had time to implement the test in its entirety), so individual sensitivities to lag may vary, but in the experience of our staff there was little of note to report.
Thanks for reading!

Lee

So...that's what we were waiting on rolleyes.gif
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post #282 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

So...that's what we were waiting on rolleyes.gif

I know... right????? To say a little disappointing would be an understatement

I guess we will have to wait for displaylag.com for some solid numbers mad.gif

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post #283 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:12 PM
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"I can say that we experienced very little actual input/display lag, even with the ST60 connected to a wireless network. We don't have a way to objectively measure input lag yet (we haven't had time to implement the test in its entirety)"

Seems a bit contradictory, doesn't it? Sounds like "We experienced very little input lag. BTW we can't actually measure input lag."

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post #284 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:17 PM
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Do they realize the lag "we're" talking about is through the digital video processor & not the onboard wireless processor?
It sounds like they are referring to latency that is introduced through a wireless network.
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post #285 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:17 PM
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I know you guys are really anxious to find out about the ST60, will try my best to have it as soon as possible. Have a flu right now, but I'll make that TV my first priority.
moshock likes this.
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post #286 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Do they realize the lag "we're" talking about is through the digital video processor & not the onboard wireless processor?
It sounds like they are referring to latency that is introduced through a wireless network.

good news is, if you email him and ask he will respond relatively quickly

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post #287 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by supermandlb View Post

good news is, if you email him and ask he will respond relatively quickly

I'm following on this one wink.gif
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post #288 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

I know you guys are really anxious to find out about the ST60, will try my best to have it as soon as possible. Have a flu right now, but I'll make that TV my first priority.

Do you know what settings you will put the ST60 into to get the lowest lag input measurement? Do you just try everything? Did you need to discuss this aspect with the community here?

Appreciate your testing, thank you.
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post #289 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by supermandlb View Post

I know... right????? To say a little disappointing would be an understatement

I guess we will have to wait for displaylag.com for some solid numbers mad.gif
Well at least he DID mention it. I had a feeling they didn't have a leo bodnar tester, since input lag has never been a section of their reviews (until I emailed them with my rationale). So far though, there's still no regrets on my S60. 60S60 for $1100 vs 55ST60 for $1348. More time will tell, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FourWude View Post

I know you guys are really anxious to find out about the ST60, will try my best to have it as soon as possible. Have a flu right now, but I'll make that TV my first priority.
Much appreciated. Drink tons of OJ! biggrin.gif
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post #290 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermandlb View Post

I emailed Lee and asked him when the input lag measurements would be posted. I mentioned that the article said it would be posted on the 23rd and to check back.

About 15 minutes later I received this response:

Hi David,

I updated the ST60 review with our calibration specs and the input lag results this morning. Unfortunately, due to caching, the results may not appear on the review until later today/tomorrow morning. I can say that we experienced very little actual input/display lag, even with the ST60 connected to a wireless network. We don't have a way to objectively measure input lag yet (we haven't had time to implement the test in its entirety), so individual sensitivities to lag may vary, but in the experience of our staff there was little of note to report.
Thanks for reading!

Lee


Haha, that's about the worst response we could have received. I'm glad he looked into it, but many in this thread won't be satisfied without concrete numbers. I'm happy however.
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post #291 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Do they realize the lag "we're" talking about is through the digital video processor & not the onboard wireless processor?
It sounds like they are referring to latency that is introduced through a wireless network.

He meant input lag. The wireless network was mentioned because it's a potential resource hog like DNR or Motion Smoothing. I believe Moonchild debunked this with his tests...but then again a lot of input seems to contradict his. Displaylag seems like our last hope haha.
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post #292 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

So far though, there's still no regrets on my S60. 60S60 for $1100 vs 55ST60 for $1348. More time will tell, though.

Good choice on the size imo.. the price doesn't hurt either !

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post #293 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 03:18 PM
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Good choice on the size imo.. the price doesn't hurt either !
As I said in the S60 forum, Hhgregg's price-matching policy can't be beat.
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post #294 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hubology Now View Post

Also, just as an additional note, here in Canada the 55" model costs $200 more than the 60" model costs in the states.

Yeah.. I can't believe how we keep getting screwed.. on everything not just A/V gear. And the exchange rate has been at par or close to par with the USD for years now !

I get mad when I see forum members talking about how they got this tv for that, and this receiver for this... wish we had those prices up here.

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post #295 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 04:44 PM
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Input lag info from televisioninfo.com is up!
Quote:
Input Lag

We ran a simple input lag test, using a PlayStation 3 with an HDMI connection, while the ST60 was connected wirelessly to the internet. Despite reports to the contrary, we experienced little differentiation in amount of input lag between the lower-end Panasonic S60 and the ST60—perhaps 10-20ms at most. We currently have no concrete way of reporting objective data on input lag, but the consensus by our experts was that the ST60 did not exhibit audio-video display lag, nor a high amount input lag. However, it is important that gamers concerned with input lag be sure to turn off all of the ST60's post-processing and motion smoothing functions. Preferably, one should disconnect the TV from a network connection before playing any motion-intensive games as well, but this will not effect the presence of input lag as much as leaving on post-processing functions such as noise reduction.

Hummmm... I almost bought it last week-end. I got my finger on the trigger, I think I'm gonna buy it anyway, got to replace my old LN40A650 ACL Tv.. I think my eyes will be shocked by the difference! smile.gif

I Wonder if size of the tv can change something? Have you guys looked for the firmware version? Maybe we can ask Lee for his FW version and compare it to someone who got it...
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post #296 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 06:51 PM
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Does it get anymore subjective than that. Gee thanks.
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post #297 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 08:30 PM
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HA, you see? This is a prime example of how anal AVS members can be, and by no means am I calling you guys out, I'm part of the problem as well. We get 1 test coming back from a member who obviously does know what he's talking about, but we use his results as fact and 100% peer reviewed basically, and we create a damn panic of a problem on a stellar television...

BUY THIS SET NOW
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post #298 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 09:29 PM
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80 ms of lag is a problem. 80-100 ms is an even bigger problem. We just want to know what we're buying since we all do gaming a lot. Trust me, I'd LOVE for this to be a non issue!

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post #299 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAELSU View Post

HA, you see? This is a prime example of how anal AVS members can be, and by no means am I calling you guys out, I'm part of the problem as well. We get 1 test coming back from a member who obviously does know what he's talking about, but we use his results as fact and 100% peer reviewed basically, and we create a damn panic of a problem on a stellar television...

BUY THIS SET NOW

Huh? The "panic" is primarily founded on HDTVTest's review who measured 75ms with the lag testing device and 47-62ms with the timer/photo method. This thread and the OP's tests are merely a fork of that discussion in an attempt to clean up the general ST60 thread. There are also other users who have corroborated these results. Surely you're not referring to this recent review that admits to being purely subjective with those comments.
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post #300 of 1315 Old 04-24-2013, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkAELSU View Post

HA, you see?...

BUY THIS SET NOW

Referring to me obviously.

All I am saying is, the "input lag" section of his report is completely non-informational. Truly nothing in those comments contain any merit that proves to me what the input lag actually is.

Basically this whole thread was founded on the possibility of getting the ST60's North American models tested honestly, and objectively.

Now it seems the Leo Bodnar device is what we need to get the best results. And then, is it too much to ask for all the different ways the lag was tested with that device...the exact setup?

$1500 is a lot of money to me and I would hate to buy a tv that I can not use for twitch FPS xbox games because it is uncomfortable.

We are really just trying to get the most out of our dollar on this issue. I don't think I will go back to that site, after reading that...that...whatever it was you want to call it.

Edit- BTW they didn't have a section on input lag for their S60 review.
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