Official ST60 input lag thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1315 Old 05-04-2013, 02:03 PM
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Was this with game mode activated?

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post #452 of 1315 Old 05-04-2013, 02:48 PM
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I played a little black ops 2 online, bioshock infinite and god of war ascension today, did not notice any difference besides looking stunning from my 2008 pannny plasma. Guess I fall into the ignorance is bliss category. On black ops I won most one on ones where lag would play a critical decider.

Anyways the PQ is way too good, this baby is a keeper. Not paying double what I paid to gain, er lose 50ms.
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post #453 of 1315 Old 05-04-2013, 04:42 PM
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Yes... game mode was active.

I completely understand if some people find the input lag on the ST60 acceptable, I just don't. For a TV that I plan on holding on to for 5+ years I'm willing to pay a bit more to get something that I'm happy with for gaming, and the P60VT60 can be had brand new for about $2300 right now: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/15153825076847722916?q=p60vt60&btnG=&sa=X&ei=wJyFUc2JNqvjigKp8IGgBA&ved=0CF8Q8wIwAA
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post #454 of 1315 Old 05-04-2013, 05:47 PM
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Moonchilde did you return your st60?

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post #455 of 1315 Old 05-04-2013, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I did this morning.
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post #456 of 1315 Old 05-04-2013, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Yes, I did this morning.

Well that's too bad mad.gif

But it's not like you didn't try everything..

What are you replacing it with ?

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post #457 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I hate to say it but the F8500. I know, right? Trade one laggy display for another. I didn't have many options to choose from, VT60 is NOT being carried by Sears, it's not even in their system at all, and I had run out of time for my exchange. Oh, and to make things better, all the local stores in my area are not carrying the F8500, so that had to be special ordered. I had a hard enough time talking them out of a restock fee and had my pink blob ace that they agreed to an exchange. I could have picked up a F5500, but I refuse to because of the pentile display and the step down in PQ. I could have picked up the S60, but less picture controls, no Infinite Black Pro panel, and a buggy service menu brightness fluctuation will make calibrating that a nightmare.

So that left me with another ST60, or a F8500, or *gasp* a filthy LED display. I'm hoping some how, we can reign in that quad core via custom firmware. But that may be a pipe dream. Worst case, I calibrate it, sell it off to a local videophile, and pick something else up a few months down the line, or just go back to my CRT and forget about 3D and big displays.

If NA had the GT60, that would have been my no. 1. choice. Sadly, that is not the case, and I was out of options. At least the Sammy has minimal ABL and full resolution 3D. The ABL alone will probably make it the most CRT like display I can currently get. I'm also hoping it doesn't have nearly the same amount of menu bugs as the Panny. Bah, I'm still not really happy with my decision. I'm kind of just resigned to it at this point, but I won't really know until the set arrives. After 2 defective Pannys (I'm not even counting the input lag here...) this whole situation has made getting a new display a nightmare, I kinda wish I had never went out and picked up a modern flat panel at this point, and should have just been happy with what I had.

However, you can bet your toosh I'm going going to be testing the F8500 against my CRT and look for every available option to get that lag down. Maybe I'll get lucky and find something acceptable to me, and if so, then I'll have a very nice display with good response.

Well, at the very least, I'll have a responsive picture menu to go through. I can't tell you just how much faster the S60 I was playing around with at the store was compared to going through the menu on the ST60. With a quad core pushing that thing, it has to be speedy. Right? Right guys?!?
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post #458 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 12:29 AM
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Did you get much of a chance to check out the 3D content on the ST60? I'd like to know how you feel it compares to the F8500, once you get that set up.
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post #459 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I actually did! I watched Flying Swords at Dragon Gate (really nice 3D) and played some Shadow of the Colossus. SotC was AMAZING when it had depth, and the cross talk wasn't all that bad though there were moments. True 3D gaming had incredible depth, it was even better than seeing life like actors in a movie. Checking it out in 2D afterwards was like, man, what a drag to go from seeing this beautiful world with depth to a beautiful world that now looks flat. You just lose so much, stuff you could actually see into the distance and how expansive it was, and the sense that you're actually in the game's world. I can't go back, even considering the choice is between 3D 720p and 2D 1080p! I'll be sure to try out the 3D and report back for you.

This is a major factor in why I did not want to back down to the S60. SotC is one of my most favorite games. Once you play in that world, you can't go back, or if you do, you at least want to experience it again at some point in the future. It's that good.
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post #460 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowingChicken View Post

Did you get much of a chance to check out the 3D content on the ST60? I'd like to know how you feel it compares to the F8500, once you get that set up.

I just posted in the ST60 thread my experience of watching Avatar 3D on the 65ST60, fyi if you're interested..

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post #461 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I hate to say it but the F8500. I know, right? Trade one laggy display for another. I didn't have many options to choose from, VT60 is NOT being carried by Sears, it's not even in their system at all, and I had run out of time for my exchange. Oh, and to make things better, all the local stores in my area are not carrying the F8500, so that had to be special ordered. I had a hard enough time talking them out of a restock fee and had my pink blob ace that they agreed to an exchange. I could have picked up a F5500, but I refuse to because of the pentile display and the step down in PQ. I could have picked up the S60, but less picture controls, no Infinite Black Pro panel, and a buggy service menu brightness fluctuation will make calibrating that a nightmare.

So that left me with another ST60, or a F8500, or *gasp* a filthy LED display. I'm hoping some how, we can reign in that quad core via custom firmware. But that may be a pipe dream. Worst case, I calibrate it, sell it off to a local videophile, and pick something else up a few months down the line, or just go back to my CRT and forget about 3D and big displays.

If NA had the GT60, that would have been my no. 1. choice. Sadly, that is not the case, and I was out of options. At least the Sammy has minimal ABL and full resolution 3D. The ABL alone will probably make it the most CRT like display I can currently get. I'm also hoping it doesn't have nearly the same amount of menu bugs as the Panny. Bah, I'm still not really happy with my decision. I'm kind of just resigned to it at this point, but I won't really know until the set arrives. After 2 defective Pannys (I'm not even counting the input lag here...) this whole situation has made getting a new display a nightmare, I kinda wish I had never went out and picked up a modern flat panel at this point, and should have just been happy with what I had.

However, you can bet your toosh I'm going going to be testing the F8500 against my CRT and look for every available option to get that lag down. Maybe I'll get lucky and find something acceptable to me, and if so, then I'll have a very nice display with good response.

Well, at the very least, I'll have a responsive picture menu to go through. I can't tell you just how much faster the S60 I was playing around with at the store was compared to going through the menu on the ST60. With a quad core pushing that thing, it has to be speedy. Right? Right guys?!?

Tough choice for sure... I wish you all the best man, hopefully you end up finding something suitable for your needs, out of this year's line.. and not have to wait for future releases tongue.gif

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post #462 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 12:57 AM
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I really liked the F8500 myself. It's just too costly for me, and for that money I'd prefer a VT60 (prob you would too). 60ms of lag I believe, so that makes it at least a frame better, and around that time threshold it should feel much better. I saw a Final Fantasy demo clip playing on the F8500 next to a VT50, and the F8500 killed it...in bright store lighting that is...

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post #463 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I always have lights on in my home. It's another reason I chose it, as in a lighted room it was reportedly handling black better according to CNET. I tend to get bad eye strain if I watch TV in the dark, so I prefer a little lighting. I should look into those new D65k LEDs people are using for ambient lighting, right now I just have hardware store florescent blues which still don't hit as high as 65k, they're more like 55k and thats only if they're accurate. I should measure them.
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post #464 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

I just posted in the ST60 thread my experience of watching Avatar 3D on the 65ST60, fyi if you're interested..

Yeah just saw it. I watched Prometheus 3D myself. I still see the SOE even in 3D so I had a go at doing it without any motion smoother and I did make it through, but there is still something going on there that my eye just doesn't like. It looks like SOE, I'm wondering if it has to do with the refresh rate on the glasses. It was fine for most of the movie but the scene where the helmet melts from the acid looked really bad; such a lovely effect in 2D and 3D in theaters but it looked really funky this time around.
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post #465 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 06:27 PM
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Just got my P60ST60 in last week and after running slides for 100 hours I played some Halo 4 last night. Game mode makes a considerable difference -- I found the lag to be noticeable and wasn't even looking for it (I couldn't figure out why the controls seemed slow, until I went through the menu and recognized the setting was off by default). Turning it on fixed the issue and it was totally fine after the fact.

For reference, I have pretty quick reactions, was a level 45-48 Halo 3 player back in the day, and am probably around the same now (K/D of ~1.4).

PS - I keep getting a "3D mode detected" for Halo when the game starts. Has anyone played with 3D enabled? I presume Halo 4 doesn't support 3D...
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post #466 of 1315 Old 05-05-2013, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I would just turn that off and manually do 3D. Youtube videos would at times, say 3D mode detected on Auto 1. There were times when Auto 2 would make the picture spazz out without even notifying about 3D mode, but I would chalk that up to me disabling 3D notification and Auto 2 putting the picture into 3D mode. I wonder how the TV decides there is a 3D signal? If it's analyzing the picture type, then that's yet another process always running. I haven't reported this bug yet, maybe I should.
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post #467 of 1315 Old 05-06-2013, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcazes View Post

Just got my P60ST60 in last week and after running slides for 100 hours I played some Halo 4 last night. Game mode makes a considerable difference -- I found the lag to be noticeable and wasn't even looking for it (I couldn't figure out why the controls seemed slow, until I went through the menu and recognized the setting was off by default). Turning it on fixed the issue and it was totally fine after the fact.

For reference, I have pretty quick reactions, was a level 45-48 Halo 3 player back in the day, and am probably around the same now (K/D of ~1.4).

PS - I keep getting a "3D mode detected" for Halo when the game starts. Has anyone played with 3D enabled? I presume Halo 4 doesn't support 3D...
That's an old bug in the Panasonic firmware. My ST30 did that all the time with Halo Reach. Good to hear game mode helped you out. I went with an S60 for my Halo 4 shenanigans. biggrin.gif
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post #468 of 1315 Old 05-06-2013, 08:50 PM
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any results on the vt60s input lag?
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post #469 of 1315 Old 05-06-2013, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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47.6 ms, or 3 fames if you will. Almost 4 frames which would be 50 ms.
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post #470 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 11:49 AM
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Hey guys I called up panny and told them about the lag issues, tech support claimed that they had no knowledge of it. The tech support person tried to blamed it on the input source. I told them I had proof of this problem, So I gave them all the test numbers that was done on the ST 60 (thanks Phatal One) and I said that this same test was done on the s60 with no input lag ... the Lady got pissed….lol so she switch me to another department.. I told the next tech the same story I also asked him could this be fixed with a firmware update. So of course this guy didn't have an answers for me either. He gave me a ref number and said I can call back on this anytime…. So I’m thinking that if everybody calls in with these same issues, maybe they will look into it
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post #471 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 12:06 PM
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Hey guys I called up panny and told them about the lag issues, tech support claimed that they had no knowledge of it. The tech support person tried to blamed it on the input source. I told them I had proof of this problem, So I gave them all the test numbers that was done on the ST 60 (thanks Phatal One) and I said that this same test was done on the s60 with no input lag ... the Lady got pissed….lol so she switch me to another department.. I told the next tech the same story I also asked him could this be fixed with a firmware update. So of course this guy didn't have an answers for me either. He gave me a ref number and said I can call back on this anytime…. So I’m thinking that if everybody calls in with these same issues, maybe they will look into it

Very interesting, thx for posting !

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post #472 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by subnet224 View Post

Hey guys I called up panny and told them about the lag issues, tech support claimed that they had no knowledge of it. The tech support person tried to blamed it on the input source. I told them I had proof of this problem, So I gave them all the test numbers that was done on the ST 60 (thanks Phatal One) and I said that this same test was done on the s60 with no input lag ... the Lady got pissed….lol so she switch me to another department.. I told the next tech the same story I also asked him could this be fixed with a firmware update. So of course this guy didn't have an answers for me either. He gave me a ref number and said I can call back on this anytime…. So I’m thinking that if everybody calls in with these same issues, maybe they will look into it

You'd have to speak to someone from the engineering department to discuss input lag, and CSR's do not transfer calls to engineers. Even then only a senior/lead engineer would be able to give a good answer probably. The people you were speaking to were reading off a FAQ script based on the instruction manual.
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post #473 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 06:32 PM
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ok, well I'm sure if enough people call maybe we might get this fix
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post #474 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 07:53 PM
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ok, well I'm sure if enough people call maybe we might get this fix
Moonchilde's very, very determined attempts lead me to believe that you're only chasing a dream.
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post #475 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 08:21 PM
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Moonchilde's very, very determined attempts lead me to believe that you're only chasing a dream.

Good analysis, I think you're right, regrettable for all gamers just wishing they could pull the trigger on this display.. frown.gif

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post #476 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 08:24 PM
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I still have hope, but you're probably right about making much progress through these channels.

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post #477 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 10:26 PM
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Good analysis, I think you're right, regrettable for all gamers just wishing they could pull the trigger on this display.. frown.gif
Just realize that there ARE people on here who claim the lag is unnoticeable. Good for them. You may be among those people as well, so if you like the ST60 enough for its PQ alone it may be worth the risk to at least try it out. Just make sure your store has a good return policy if you eventually find the lag unbearable.
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post #478 of 1315 Old 05-07-2013, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Just realize that there ARE people on here who claim the lag is unnoticeable. Good for them. You may be among those people as well, so if you like the ST60 enough for its PQ alone it may be worth the risk to at least try it out. Just make sure your store has a good return policy if you eventually find the lag unbearable.

Oh for sure, I actually love my ST60, I can't complain biggrin.gif

I'm far from a huge gamer... when I do play, we (yes WE.. my wife and I) go online and play Uncharted 3 on the PS3.. I haven't had a chance to play yet since I got the ST60 a couple of weeks ago, but hopefully I will soon.. I'm not sure if playing online Uncharted 3 is the type of game that you would tend to really notice significant lag with confused.gif

We don't play often, but when we do, we play for hours a day for a couple weeks or so and then break off til the next time a couple months later.. sorta like a tweaker tongue.gif

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post #479 of 1315 Old 05-08-2013, 03:52 PM
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Oh for sure, I actually love my ST60, I can't complain biggrin.gif

I'm far from a huge gamer... when I do play, we (yes WE.. my wife and I) go online and play Uncharted 3 on the PS3.. I haven't had a chance to play yet since I got the ST60 a couple of weeks ago, but hopefully I will soon.. I'm not sure if playing online Uncharted 3 is the type of game that you would tend to really notice significant lag with confused.gif

We don't play often, but when we do, we play for hours a day for a couple weeks or so and then break off til the next time a couple months later.. sorta like a tweaker tongue.gif
Hehe, I know a few that game like that. Not sure if you'll notice it in Uncharted online or not, since the PS3 has lag to begin with. Make sure to update back.
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post #480 of 1315 Old 05-08-2013, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by El Matadurr View Post

Hehe, I know a few that game like that. Not sure if you'll notice it in Uncharted online or not, since the PS3 has lag to begin with. Make sure to update back.

Right... will do for sure. Hoping to play soon. It's just so damn busy with testing everything out, 3D, etc.. lol. and now with playoff hockey, work is busy, a puppy, summer's here and with a house and all the house/yard work that goes with that, I don't sleep anymore tongue.gif

I'll get to it soon though !

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