Official ST60 input lag thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hearzy View Post

To me- this is fine and in gameplay. You can't even tell.... But to each their own

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post #542 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 02:51 PM
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Does input lag vary with console gaming versus PC gaming with TV as monitor?
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post #543 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hearzy View Post

http://youtu.be/RBH2KIItq-8

Here is a poor quality link to me showing the game with controller in hand for your viewing of lag against the button pushing on battlefield 3

Augh, no way I'm getting the ST60 now. I'll either wait for the S64 to come to Canada or grab an S60.
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post #544 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by arkham View Post

Augh, no way I'm getting the ST60 now. I'll either wait for the S64 to come to Canada or grab an S60.

Where did you hear that the S64 is coming to Canada ??

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post #545 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hearzy View Post

http://youtu.be/RBH2KIItq-8

Here is a poor quality link to me showing the game with controller in hand for your viewing of lag against the button pushing on battlefield 3

Thanks for posting! I play BF3 with a PC and am unfamiliar with console gaming. Appreciate your efforts!
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post #546 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

Where did you hear that the S64 is coming to Canada ??

I haven't, but it could stiill come to our Costco, Sears, or other stores after it gets a wider release. If it doesn't, I'll get the S60.
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post #547 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by arkham View Post

I haven't, but it could stiill come to our Costco, Sears, or other stores after it gets a wider release. If it doesn't, I'll get the S60.

Right.. Hopefully it does.. if not than the S60 is still a very nice display smile.gif

I'm also looking for an S64 or S60 for the bedroom biggrin.gif

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post #548 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hearzy View Post

http://youtu.be/RBH2KIItq-8

Here is a poor quality link to me showing the game with controller in hand for your viewing of lag against the button pushing on battlefield 3

any chance you could do a video of a tv with less lag as well? I'd like to see the difference compared to the other video, it may not be as bad as it looks.
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post #549 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 05:32 PM
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I agree. All tvs will have the delay. Some maybe a touch more than others

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post #550 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 05:58 PM
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Noob question, is the s64 they sell at costco better than the st60 as far as picture and lag?
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post #551 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wario76 View Post

Noob question, is the s64 they sell at costco better than the st60 as far as picture and lag?

lag=yes, picture=no.

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post #552 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wario76 View Post

Noob question, is the s64 they sell at costco better than the st60 as far as picture and lag?

Definitely NOT same PQ, not the same panel..

Lag.. maybe better on the S64 than the ST60 I believe

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post #553 of 1317 Old 05-19-2013, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

Does input lag vary with console gaming versus PC gaming with TV as monitor?

It depends. Can your PC get a consistent 60 fps?

If you're playing a game at 60 fps and using this TV as a monitor, then it will feel like a 30 fps console game.

If you're playing a game at 30 fps, then it will feel more like the response of a game running at 15 to 20 fps.

Most console games run at 30 fps and struggle to maintain that frame rate. For example, a poorly optimized game like Assassin's Creed or Crysis will have frame rates often dipping into the low 20's, at which point it will feel extremely sluggish on the ST60.

If you play on PC, games that run at 60 fps will feel "ok" but won't feel like 60 fps on a sub 1 frame monitor or a lagless CRT.
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post #554 of 1317 Old 05-20-2013, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

It depends. Can your PC get a consistent 60 fps?

If you're playing a game at 60 fps and using this TV as a monitor, then it will feel like a 30 fps console game.

If you're playing a game at 30 fps, then it will feel more like the response of a game running at 15 to 20 fps.

Most console games run at 30 fps and struggle to maintain that frame rate. For example, a poorly optimized game like Assassin's Creed or Crysis will have frame rates often dipping into the low 20's, at which point it will feel extremely sluggish on the ST60.

If you play on PC, games that run at 60 fps will feel "ok" but won't feel like 60 fps on a sub 1 frame monitor or a lagless CRT.

Awesome, thanks for the very clear, in depth answer! smile.gif As you imply, FPS is a moving target on a PC depending on the game, processor, video card, online multiplayer, etc. Using FRAPS, I am well above 60 FPS with some games and I drop into the 40's with max video settings on more intensive games such as BF3. I'll probably try some gaming on the ST60 when I buy one but most likely will use the ST60 for TV and my LCD computer monitor for gaming. Thanks again for your descriptive answer!
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post #555 of 1317 Old 05-20-2013, 09:02 AM
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Here's a comparison between the ST60 and the ST30. I suppose they are European models

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUHt6bBtJg
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post #556 of 1317 Old 05-20-2013, 10:19 AM
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Just curious, would this benchmarking tool (http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php) be helpful for assessing input lag? I would think reaction time would increase on a tv/monitor with higher input lag, correct? Thanks!
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post #557 of 1317 Old 05-20-2013, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick View Post

Just curious, would this benchmarking tool (http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php) be helpful for assessing input lag? I would think reaction time would increase on a tv/monitor with higher input lag, correct? Thanks!

No because it has a human variable. Someone already did this on the first page and more scientific tests already laid the results to rest.
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post #558 of 1317 Old 05-20-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

No because it has a human variable. Someone already did this on the first page and more scientific tests already laid the results to rest.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and directing me to the earlier discussion!

I'll probably still make the comparison for my own curiosity... I'm an animal scientist by training, not an engineer, so reaction time speaks to me more than input lag... In FPS, it is common to have an enemy suddenly appear that you shoot with a press of the mouse. The reaction time test mimics this action. If reported input lag data are reasonable, I should see a dramatic increase in reaction time with a ST60 relative to my computer monitor. If I don't, I probably will not notice much difference in gaming experience on the ST60. Note, my whole focus is how the switch impacts me, recognizing that I also have inherent variabiilty within and between sessions. I'll also recognize that I could be all wet but I'll have fun trying it out anyway... smile.gif
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post #559 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 10:12 AM
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Hi there!

I did a new ST60 vs the super fast ST30 Input Lag Comparison with the PS3 Game Killzone 3.

Keep in mind, that the game itselfs lags with about 100ms.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/killzone3-pad-lag-measured-blog-entry

My personal conclusion: Gaming on the ST60 is awesome.

If I would not have read about the lag, I would not have recognized it with Game Mode On.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJSAWczrwUI
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post #560 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 10:35 AM
 
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what does the VT60 65" get for response time?
I own this set
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post #561 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post

Hi there!

I did a new ST60 vs the super fast ST30 Input Lag Comparison with the PS3 Game Killzone 3.

Keep in mind, that the game itselfs lags with about 100ms.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/killzone3-pad-lag-measured-blog-entry

My personal conclusion: Gaming on the ST60 is awesome.

If I would not have read about the lag, I would not have recognized it with Game Mode On.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJSAWczrwUI
Thanks for this comparison. It looks great on the ST60 imo.

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post #562 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce2019 View Post

Hi there!

I did a new ST60 vs the super fast ST30 Input Lag Comparison with the PS3 Game Killzone 3.

Keep in mind, that the game itselfs lags with about 100ms.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/killzone3-pad-lag-measured-blog-entry

My personal conclusion: Gaming on the ST60 is awesome.

If I would not have read about the lag, I would not have recognized it with Game Mode On.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJSAWczrwUI

Great job! Very helpful!

I'm curious, can you connect both tvs to the internet (separately) and run this test: http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php Does your reaction time differ? Based on your video, I would guess not... If you could try it, I'd be most appreciative!
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post #563 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 01:29 PM
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Great job on the comparison.

Guess there is not as much of a lag as some here seem to think. Wish I had the second set st30 to have shown that in my comparison.

St60 is an amazing set

But as many know. People like to find faults in everything and make mountains out of mole hills.

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post #564 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 01:40 PM
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Did you have both sets in game mode or only the ST60?

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post #565 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

what does the VT60 65" get for response time?
I own this set
I believe it is 43 ms. David Katz tested via Leo Bodnar.
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post #566 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 03:12 PM
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Does anyone else find the explanation of HDMI content type confusing as hell?
You have four options Off/Auto/Photos/Graphics. The default setting is Auto, I believe.
Then there is the statement "Based on a HDMI content type, picture is adjusted for optimum playback automatically. Photos/Graphics be able to select manually. Cinema/Game be able to select manually in the Picture mode/Game mode.
I know most people leave this at the default of Auto, but if you are manually adjusting everything, shouldn't it be off! Also I noticed game mode is off by default under auto detail settings. That tells me that it most likely doesn't function properly or automatically. What is everyones thoughts on this?
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post #567 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cadett View Post

Does anyone else find the explanation of HDMI content type confusing as hell?
You have four options Off/Auto/Photos/Graphics. The default setting is Auto, I believe.
Then there is the statement "Based on a HDMI content type, picture is adjusted for optimum playback automatically. Photos/Graphics be able to select manually. Cinema/Game be able to select manually in the Picture mode/Game mode.
I know most people leave this at the default of Auto, but if you are manually adjusting everything, shouldn't it be off! Also I noticed game mode is off by default under auto detail settings. That tells me that it most likely doesn't function properly or automatically. What is everyones thoughts on this?


Yeah good point Cadett !

I'd like to know that too.. eek.gif

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post #568 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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HDMI Auto content settings are bugged and do not work proper. HDMI Graphics has a sharpness artifact bug, or for some reason it's designed to do it, though last year's 2012 models don't. HDMI Photos is the only content setting you should be interested in, considering it removes sharpness artifacts from ALL picture modes.
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post #569 of 1317 Old 05-21-2013, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

HDMI Auto content settings are bugged and do not work proper. HDMI Graphics has a sharpness artifact bug, or for some reason it's designed to do it, though last year's 2012 models don't. HDMI Photos is the only content setting you should be interested in, considering it removes sharpness artifacts from ALL picture modes.

So are you saying that HDMI photo is the preferable setting, or I should leave it on auto?? (my source are HDTV and Oppo 103)

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post #570 of 1317 Old 05-22-2013, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
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HDMI content should be set to photos or off. Auto should be disabled. Photos is the best method.
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