Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 268 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8011 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

The problem is no one understands the GENIUS that is my PERFECT analogies! biggrin.gif

You RACE cars which means you most likely drive a RACE car. RACE cars are meant to go around a track efficiently. SPORTS cars are meant to look pretty and show off to your friends/date how you can hang the tail end out like a lunatic! wink.gif.

LOL, fair enough. My car is not a chick magnet. you win.
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Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

Somewhat in keeping with the video vs. audio discussion going on here, Crutchfield is having some killer deals on Yamaha AVRs right now.

Dammit, you weren't kidding. I need a new receiver, I'm just skeptical of yamaha ypao :/. why couldn't they have just stuck with audyssey.
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Originally Posted by DasRetroKid View Post

Add me to the list of prospective Oppo 103D buyers. The good thing about the 103D is that you can turn off the Darbee if you want, and still have a reference Blu Ray player, which I don't think the PS3 is considered to be (my current blu player).

While I, like others have said on here prefer my Blu Ray content untouched, I do watch a lot of movies that are only available on DVD and would be interested in what kind of new life the Darbee could breathe into those films. However I have read that the Darbee works best with content that is already HD.

I'm in the same boat. I mostly watch blu-rays or play games. Despite every review loving it and throwing praises at it, I still don't get what it does. I've seen the descriptions, and the screen shots, but why wouldn't the studios have just encoded that detail into the disk if the detail really is that much better? I don't need the up-scaling of other sources, so does it really do that much to blu-rays to make it worth $600?
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post #8012 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Ill add to the off topic Darbee talk... I'm not a fan. Mainly because i prefer watching movies the way they were intended. I don't like artificial picture scaling and enhancements. I prefer my blurays "unfiltered".

If others like the altered image, that's their choice. Not me smile.gif
Sounds like you haven't tried a Darbee. Both a DVD and a Blu-ray are authored "as the director intended," right? But the BD is a whole lot sharper (among other things), right? The Darbee just brings out detail that's already in the source; it doesn't add anything that isn't already there. I don't buy the "artistic purity" argument in this case, not to mention the Darbee improves things like sports and video games too, not just movies.

Hey, it's your money, but don't talk yourself out of it before you've tried it. And if you've tried it and just don't like it, so be it.
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post #8013 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

Somewhat in keeping with the video vs. audio discussion going on here, Crutchfield is having some killer deals on Yamaha AVRs right now.
You should post that in the Yamaha threads. You will get love there.

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post #8014 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ddawg1130 View Post

LOL, fair enough. My car is not a chick magnet. you win.
Dammit, you weren't kidding. I need a new receiver, I'm just skeptical of yamaha ypao :/. why couldn't they have just stuck with audyssey
YPAO works just fine for me.

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post #8015 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 09:00 AM
 
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If I didn't already have a Oppo 103 (and I wasn't up to my eyeballs in bills), the 103D would be on my short list to buy.
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post #8016 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

If I didn't already have a Oppo 103 (and I wasn't up to my eyeballs in bills), the 103D would be on my short list to buy.
If you like it that much I guess Im gonna have to do some research. Might make a nice Christmas present to myself.

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post #8017 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 09:19 AM
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I just received a 65VT60 yesterday that I ordered through Amazon. I was not really planning to purchase a new TV to replace my existing Panasonic 54G10 which I love. I had planned to go 2 more years and then upgrade to a larger plasma. However, with the recent significant price drops on the VT series and Panasonic stopping production of Plasma televisions, I did not want to miss out and have regrets later.

I've read a lot of posts here in AVS about the new series of Panasonic plasmas having extreme IR or burn-in. The one general trend I find surprising is the very high contrast settings that I see being posted here and in other threads. When I got my first plasma in 2009 every piece of advice I read said to immediately reduce the contrast to 50 or lower for the first few hundred hours. I ran that G10 set initially at a contrast setting of 38 for approximately the first 300 hours of use. I even watched some 4:3 content (not much though) and played video games during that span. I never had any significant, long-lasting IR. Only very temporary IR on occasion that went away very quickly when switching to different content. I had Chad B come and calibrate that television when it had roughly 350 hours on it, and even after doing the full calibration my contrast setting was (and still is) only set at 56, and it looks superb. To this day I have played video games on that set for extended time periods (GTA 5 recently) and have watched NFL football all day on Sundays, and I have never had an IR problem.

Now, I do have the TV in a fairly darkened, light-controlled room so I don't need the image that bright or super-punchy to be able to comfortably view it. Others who have the TV in brighter rooms probably need to have a higher-contrast setting. Maybe I just got lucky with that panel too, and obviously the VT60 series are different plasmas from my older G10. It just appears to me that many folks are running their contrast extremely high, which by everything I have ever read contributes significantly to causing IR/burn-in. I immediately put my VT60 in THX cinema mode and dropped the contrast down to 38 and kept the brightness at 50. I then ran the VT60 yesterday for several hours, including a little 4:3 content, stations w/ logos, and played some video games with my son. I looked for IR and never saw any, even when I ran the screen wiper looking for it in the white background. It's still early, but I plan to do the same thing with this panel that I did with the G10, which is to keep the contrast down around 40 for the first few hundred hours, and then get it professionally calibrated sometime next spring.
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post #8018 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 09:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

If you like it that much I guess Im gonna have to do some research. Might make a nice Christmas present to myself.
I'm just an Oppo fanboy, and I've heard more good than bad about Darbee enhancements, so I'd be willing to take a $100 gamble on the hype. wink.gif
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post #8019 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 09:33 AM
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I would have to agree with this statement. I have been watching very nice 60 and 65 inch tv's for the last 10 or 15 years, but my theater didn't really grab me until I went with a big screen and projector! I have been very fortunate to put together a pretty nice sound system to go with the video as well…. movie night at my place really is better than the local theater smile.gif
One thing is for sure the projectors of today for $3000 and up and nothing like what was made 5 years ago for the same cost, thank goodness !
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post #8020 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I'm just an Oppo fanboy, and I've heard more good than bad about Darbee enhancements, so I'd be willing to take a $100 gamble on the hype. wink.gif
So would I. Dont know where I can get one for $100 though thats not stolen.

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post #8021 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 09:58 AM
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he is referring to the difference in cost betwen a 103 and 103D - assuming you are in the market for an Oppo to begin with smile.gif

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post #8022 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 09:59 AM
 
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Well, in my case, I could sell the 103 for almost as much as I paid for it, so the net difference would be a little over $100. The Oppo's feature set is amazing (the latest firmware update just added gapless playback of some music files, for instance). Those are the main reasons I didn't include the other $500 in my assessment. smile.gif
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post #8023 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Well, in my case, I could sell the 103 for almost as much as I paid for it, so the net difference would be a little over $100. The Oppo's feature set is amazing (the latest firmware update just added gapless playback of some music files, for instance). Those are the main reasons I didn't include the other $500 in my assessment. smile.gif

Vinnie you're being a bad influence on me - I have been staying away from the 103D thread for a reason as I keep trying to tell myself my 103 is more than adequate plus the advantages of the old chip for streaming when watching NETFLIX smile.gif

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post #8024 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ddawg1130 View Post

Dammit, you weren't kidding. I need a new receiver, I'm just skeptical of yamaha ypao :/. why couldn't they have just stuck with audyssey.

I wouldn't be afraid of YPAO. Yamaha has a fantastic reputation for sound and, if anything, I'd trust their solution just as much as audyssey. IMO, audyssey is a bit over-hyped. Pioneer does their own room correction as well and it works just fine. This tech isn't magic just basic sound engineering.

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post #8025 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 10:33 AM
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I just bought a new house and I'm about to pull the trigger on the 60VT60. My last plasma purchase was in 2005 (Panasonic PX50U) and I curious how much better the VT60 filters screen glare/ambient light? I believe the PX50U used an anti-glare coating and I've never had a huge problem with glare other than seeing lamp reflections. I realize technology has improved by leaps and bounds since my purchase 8 years ago, so I'm curious how much of a shock I'm in for with the new plasma?




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post #8026 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 10:37 AM
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I wouldn't be afraid of YPAO. Yamaha has a fantastic reputation for sound and, if anything, I'd trust their solution just as much as audyssey. IMO, audyssey is a bit over-hyped. Pioneer does their own room correction as well and it works just fine. This tech isn't magic just basic sound engineering.
+1 Except I would say Audyssey is way overhyped. Especially at AVS.

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post #8027 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 10:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Vinnie you're being a bad influence on me - I have been staying away from the 103D thread for a reason as I keep trying to tell myself my 103 is more than adequate plus the advantages of the old chip for streaming when watching NETFLIX smile.gif
Apologies. I don't use Netflix these days, so don't too much weight in my wishes and desires. wink.gif

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+1 Except I would say Audyssey is way overhyped. Especially at AVS.
I've noticed that as well.
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post #8028 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 10:56 AM
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I just received my 65VT60 about a week ago. I also just upgraded my Yamaha RX-V2095 receiver (old) and my Panasonic BD-85 blu-ray. I upgraded to the Denon X-4000 and Oppo 103. When researching the Oppo 103 vs the 103D, it seems everyone I talked to said I could expect less of an impact with the VT60. Apparently, good TVs really take advantage of the Darby but excellent pictures like the VT60 isn't as noticeable.

Take it for what it's worth. I can't imagine a much clearer picture than what I have now.
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post #8029 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jackers View Post

I just received my 65VT60 about a week ago. I also just upgraded my Yamaha RX-V2095 receiver (old) and my Panasonic BD-85 blu-ray. I upgraded to the Denon X-4000 and Oppo 103. When researching the Oppo 103 vs the 103D, it seems everyone I talked to said I could expect less of an impact with the VT60. Apparently, good TVs really take advantage of the Darby but excellent pictures like the VT60 isn't as noticeable.

Take it for what it's worth. I can't imagine a much clearer picture than what I have now.
Maybe they said that because the screen on a plasma isn't as large as in a projection setup where I'd expect most Darblets are used? I tried the Darblet with my BDP-93/65VT60 combo and the difference was obvious when near the screen. Farther away it might not be as obvious but it would sure be noticeable. Regardless, I was impressed enough that I ordered a second Darbee for my VT60 after I'd originally planned to just use one with my projector.

Don't talk yourself out of the Darbee without first trying it. You might be surprised.
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post #8030 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 11:04 AM
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Thats my understanding as well. They do well with projectors also it seems.

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post #8031 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 11:05 AM
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Quick question on 3D and using the glasses.

Is a line of sight required for the glasses to work? I'm assuming not as it uses bluetooth but I wanted to check. For you audio purists- I just bought a Panasonic soundbar to compliment my set up but it's now covering the IR signal coming from the front of the display. That's why I'm checking to make sure it won't affect the 3D glasses. On the plus side I no longer have to worry about purchasing the light dims to cover that annoying red light whenever the set is on.

How's everybody enjoying the 3D aspect of the set? Reviews are mostly mixed with some saying it's really good while others say it's so-so. I'm just hoping it'll be an improvement from my 65ST50 series that I'm upgrading from. I got a couple of days till I finish running the slides and checking it out for myself biggrin.gif
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post #8032 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 11:06 AM
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Maybe they said that because the screen on a plasma isn't as large as in a projection setup where I'd expect most Darblets are used? I tried the Darblet with my BDP-93/65VT60 combo and the difference was obvious when near the screen. Farther away it might not be a obvious but it would sure be noticeable. Regardless, I was impressed enough that I ordered a second Darbee for my VT60 after I'd originally planned to just use one with my projector.

Don't talk yourself out of the Darbee without first trying it. You might be surprised.

Makes sense. I figured I could always add it later if it was something that I really needed. The cost of upgrading the tv, avr, and blu-ray just added up quick. Add in the wall mount, new stand, wires, etc., I figured that $100 could be spent elsewhere. I couldn't be happier.
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post #8033 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 11:13 AM
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Makes sense. I figured I could always add it later if it was something that I really needed. The cost of upgrading the tv, avr, and blu-ray just added up quick. Add in the wall mount, new stand, wires, etc., I figured that $100 could be spent elsewhere. I couldn't be happier.
I hear ya. I personally prefer to have the stand-alone Darblet than the 103D anyway if for no other reason than it makes installation a whole lot simpler if you intend to route all your devices through it. I was a big skeptic until just recently myself...my projector has e-shift, MPC, and a whole host of other "image enhancement" algorithms so I figured the Darbee wouldn't do much, but I was sure wrong.
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post #8034 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 12:18 PM
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I'm one of the biggest A/V skeptics out there....I shudder at just the thought of a "visual enhancer," but my father gave me a Darbee Darblet after I was drooling over his...... and now I can't imagine watching TV or gaming without it. The VT60 is a spectacular TV, the Darbee makes it phenomenal.
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post #8035 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 12:29 PM
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I spent some time over at the darbee site reading about the darblet and the cobalt and I still have zero idea what it is, exactly, that they do.

So what, exactly, is it that they do... Exactly?

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post #8036 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post

I just bought a new house and I'm about to pull the trigger on the 60VT60. My last plasma purchase was in 2005 (Panasonic PX50U) and I curious how much better the VT60 filters screen glare/ambient light? I believe the PX50U used an anti-glare coating and I've never had a huge problem with glare other than seeing lamp reflections. I realize technology has improved by leaps and bounds since my purchase 8 years ago, so I'm curious how much of a shock I'm in for with the new plasma?
]

You will be amazed, the black levels are awesome. I still enjoy my G10 but the VT is way better. You will get lamp reflections but the filter is blacker, less day panel glow so ambient light is almost gone from this tv.
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post #8037 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Well, in my case, I could sell the 103 for almost as much as I paid for it, so the net difference would be a little over $100. The Oppo's feature set is amazing (the latest firmware update just added gapless playback of some music files, for instance). Those are the main reasons I didn't include the other $500 in my assessment. smile.gif

itunes has had the capability to play back music without a gap between the songs for over a decade...

All the glaring reviews I read of it has me intrigued, but nothing has yet explained to me what it actually does that makes it so impressive. It more seems to me it's just creating/extrapolating data that was never there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a blu-ray is a digital storage medium. If the authors of the content wanted that extra detail or contrast that this "Darbee" technology adds, then why not just encode it into the original media file to begin with?

What is the weakness of other blu-ray players that the Oppo 103/103d fix? Or is this all basically a much higher end version of applying instagram filters to a cell phone picture? More like using adobe lightroom to enhance a photo, but that this does it continuously with every image? That's what it seems like to me, that it's analyzing the picture and creating and inserting data that never existed and wasn't there. And if that's the case, it's amazing to me how much all the sites are embracing this technology. Everything else that artificially manipulates the original source picture is always frowned on.

(I only care about what it does for blu-rays, the scaling other sources is cool, but I'd only buy it if it truly made the best picture even better).
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

I wouldn't be afraid of YPAO. Yamaha has a fantastic reputation for sound and, if anything, I'd trust their solution just as much as audyssey. IMO, audyssey is a bit over-hyped. Pioneer does their own room correction as well and it works just fine. This tech isn't magic just basic sound engineering.

I know, I just have experience with audyssey and love it. I suppose no harm in giving the yamaha a try.
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I spent some time over at the darbee site reading about the darblet and the cobalt and I still have zero idea what it is, exactly, that they do.

So what, exactly, is it that they do... Exactly?

Exactly! I've read their site and the reviews and nobody explains what it is actually doing. It's amazing, seems like someone's figured out a way to pull the blinders over the avs forum crowd. If that's the case, I might have to buy it just because of how amazing of a feat that is.
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post #8038 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 12:42 PM
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I have the Oppo 103D and the Darbee is implemented very well on it, but I am not a fan of that kind of processing. However, just keep in mind it works best on good/reference quality material and may actually harm the image with mediocre and poor quality content.


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Originally Posted by ddawg1130 View Post

itunes has had the capability to play back music without a gap between the songs for over a decade...
So have many other media players and so did CD players, but that feature has been largely lost in many mediums since. The fact that it has taken Oppo almost 4 years to implement and that it only makes gapless WAV and APE files (so far) and that it is deemed experimental suggests to me there are audio chipset (hardware) complications in being able to utilize audio buffering to make this possible. Besides, iTunes can't play 7-channel high-resolution lossless audio. wink.gif Now, if we could move on from this topic...
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All the glaring reviews I read of it has me intrigued, but nothing has yet explained to me what it actually does that makes it so impressive. It more seems to me it's just creating/extrapolating data that was never there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a blu-ray is a digital storage medium. If the authors of the content wanted that extra detail or contrast that this "Darbee" technology adds, then why not just encode it into the original media file to begin with?
As a purist, I understand the skepticism, but this is the same concept that makes the F8500 favorable (video processing).
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What is the weakness of other blu-ray players that the Oppo 103/103d fix? Or is this all basically a much higher end version of applying instagram filters to a cell phone picture? More like using adobe lightroom to enhance a photo, but that this does it continuously with every image? That's what it seems like to me, that it's analyzing the picture and creating and inserting data that never existed and wasn't there. And if that's the case, it's amazing to me how much all the sites are embracing this technology. Everything else that artificially manipulates the original source picture is always frowned on.
It's pointless to bemoan what it might do until it can be seen in person. It's very selectively applied and not in a blanket or one-size-fits-all fashion.
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Exactly! I've read their site and the reviews and nobody explains what it is actually doing. It's amazing, seems like someone's figured out a way to pull the blinders over the avs forum crowd. If that's the case, I might have to buy it just because of how amazing of a feat that is.
I'm not blinded. I'm also intrigued.
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post #8040 of 16689 Old 12-11-2013, 01:03 PM
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^^ fair enough. And that's the impression I get with it.

It has the 30 day trial period, I'm tempted to give it a try.

Also, I make blunt comments in my posts to just try to get answers, don't take anything offensively (not that you did, just making a general statement) I'm just searching for info.
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