Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 283 - AVS Forum
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post #8461 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PolishDude View Post

I'm starting to get worried about this IR issue, it seems like people are getting it way too easy. I had to tell my brother to stop playing his ps4 last night after a couple hrs because I was paranoid I would get IR. Although I got a great deal on the tv plus the soundbar,not sure if I should not just return it and pay a couple hundred extra for the Samsung F8500 or skip plasmas all together if i have to be worried about what I watch. At what point do you no longer enjoy your tv if you have to think about what you are watching. Starting to regret returning the open box Sharp Elite I found a month ago.
for what it's worth, I hear the f8500 handles ir worse.
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post #8462 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Even though I have a ZT60 (and as both panels are obviously close brethren), since the IR topic is a hot one, I thought I'd update you all on my aforementioned lamentations: After running the pixel flipper for 11 hours in vivid mode, I am happy to report that the Fox Sports logo is about 95% gone (this logo was on-screen through approximately 2 games, so 6-9 hours interspersed with commercial breaks). What I'm not happy about is I had to engage this expensive (power drain) "feature" at all.

Which pixel flipper?
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post #8463 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:08 AM
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Hi all,

I'm a current owner of a Sony KDS-R60XBR1, April 2006 build, and am seriously considering a 65" VT60 primarily for the improved blacks and contrast. I'm interested in opinions from people who purchased from VE. I'm on the fence about purchasing through them with the full QC and 300 hour break-in and calibration vs. just going through Amazon and using D-Nice's slides and settings, then possibly getting a pro calibration at some point in the future.

Searching this thread indicates there are many who have had positive experiences going through Amazon. I haven't dealt with VE beyond exchanging emails recently and watching their Shootout videos, but they definitely feel like a store that cares about a quality customer experience. Basically, I'm trying to weigh the lower cost of Amazon against the experience VE has with these displays.

Thanks for any input!



I used amazon prime - and was very happy with the price and delivery by pilot went very well, he removed packing, put the batteries in remotes and we both checked the tv , after and while powered up. Their are many post' on this very subject. Good luck- i think you will be very happy with this outstanding plasma. I have just over 100 hours on mine-- time to get serious with it!! mine is a 55 vt60,
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post #8464 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kneelbeforegod View Post

for what it's worth, I hear the f8500 handles ir worse.
That's funny, I've heard the opposite (that Samsungs are traditionally the most IR resilient next to the lauded Kuros).
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Which pixel flipper?
The oft-recommended Disney WOW disc.
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post #8465 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post

Hi all,

I'm a current owner of a Sony KDS-R60XBR1, April 2006 build, and am seriously considering a 65" VT60 primarily for the improved blacks and contrast. I'm interested in opinions from people who purchased from VE. I'm on the fence about purchasing through them with the full QC and 300 hour break-in and calibration vs. just going through Amazon and using D-Nice's slides and settings, then possibly getting a pro calibration at some point in the future.

Searching this thread indicates there are many who have had positive experiences going through Amazon. I haven't dealt with VE beyond exchanging emails recently and watching their Shootout videos, but they definitely feel like a store that cares about a quality customer experience. Basically, I'm trying to weigh the lower cost of Amazon against the experience VE has with these displays.

Thanks for any input!

I bought mine through amazon and so far I am happy, however my experience hasn't been issue free. For starters upon delivery the company didn't want to bring the tv in my house, they started they only drop off the merchandise, then he wouldn't open it or set it up as amazon states they will. I didn't accept the delivery, amazon recovered it two days later and gave me 113$ back. On the second delivery I couldn't plug the tv in and test it due to the temperature outside, they said it needed around 4 hours to warm the tv to room temperature. Talked to amazon, they gave me a hundred dollar credit for the inconvenience and called me the next day to see if everything was working satisfactorily upon testing it. Overall amazon has been very good to work with considering the minor inconveniences I have experienced, and I have gotten $213 back on a tv I picked up at a great rate to begin with ($2149). In any case, if you are going to buy through amazon I would do so sooner than later as it is now listed at $2399, and had risen about $100 in the post week or less, and roughly $250 since I ordered mine on cyber Monday.
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post #8466 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:16 AM
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Is this with C.A.T.S off?

Yes, CATS is off. Also I have STD/ECO mode set to Standard.
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post #8467 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That's funny, I've heard the opposite (that Samsungs are traditionally the most IR resilient next to the lauded Kuros).
The oft-recommended Disney WOW disc.

I heard that too, mind you I'm new to plasma so im going off of what I've read, not first hand info. But I hear that while last year's samsung was quite resident to ir, this year's are more prone abd the theory is because of the increased brightness exhibited by this year's panel.
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post #8468 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:23 AM
 
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I've never owned Samsung plasma, so it's also second-hand for me. That is an entirely plausible theory concerning the excess brightness resulting in more susceptibility to IR. I just haven't read the reports you have.
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post #8469 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Even though I have a ZT60 (and as both panels are obviously close brethren), since the IR topic is a hot one, I thought I'd update you all on my aforementioned lamentations: After running the pixel flipper for 11 hours in vivid mode, I am happy to report that the Fox Sports logo is about 95% gone (this logo was on-screen through approximately 2 games, so 6-9 hours interspersed with commercial breaks). What I'm not happy about is I had to engage this expensive (power drain) "feature" at all.

Burn in on this set its concerning, I am nervous about getting it as well being an amateur to the tech. But for what it's worth, the possibility of a small shadow of a residual image from burn in is something that I came to terms with as the lesser of two evils considering that most led tv have inconsistent back lights, poor of angle performance and poor black levels and shadow detail. Given the choice I would rather deal with the possibility of a small image shadow than the unavoidable issues of led.
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post #8470 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:26 AM
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ok here is the pic...notice the line coming off of the black line, any suggestions? is this an issue with my display or caused by something else?

Looks like line bleed to me. Normal for plasma TVs. If you have the Pixar movie "Up" you will see line bleed coming off the glasses of Carl, as a kid, in the scene where he retrieves his balloon.
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post #8471 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kneelbeforegod View Post

Burn in on this set its concerning, I am nervous about getting it as well being an amateur to the tech. But for what it's worth, the possibility of a small shadow of a residual image from burn in is something that I came to terms with as the lesser of two evils considering that most led tv have inconsistent back lights, poor of angle performance and poor black levels and shadow detail. Given the choice I would rather deal with the possibility of a small image shadow than the unavoidable issues of led.
Correct, that inconsistent back light situation (MURA) was the primary driver of me to jump into Kuro in 2008. On a similar note, it ended up suffering from uneven wear since I mostly used it to view HD DVD and Blu-ray movies due to aspect ratios that don't cover the entirety of the screen, which subsequently became noticeable on full-screen content. That said, I would never return to that Samsung LCD in 2007 with its hideously uneven backlighting. It is certainly a pick your poison situation, but this scenario of IR and uneven wear has actually scared some on this very forum back to LCD due to wanting to avoid the undue stress this babying causes (one is quite happy, reportedly wink.gif). Fortunately, LCDs have come a long way since 2007. Still not far enough to get me to jump in obviously.
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post #8472 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I've never owned Samsung plasma, so it's also second-hand for me. That is an entirely plausible theory concerning the excess brightness resulting in more susceptibility to IR. I just haven't read the reports you have.

http://m.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/televisions/plasma-and-lcd-tvs/samsung-ps64f8500-1151505/review

http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=7616.195
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post #8473 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:40 AM
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Looks like line bleed to me. Normal for plasma TVs. If you have the Pixar movie "Up" you will see line bleed coming off the glasses of Carl, as a kid, in the scene where he retrieves his balloon.

Thank you for replying to my post, I appreciate your feedback. Is line bleed something that happens with all plasmas or is it luck of the draw? Will it dissipate in time or is it kust an issue that I have to deal with? Nit that it's that big of an issue but Just wondering if it would be worth swapping my panel with another to see if I can get one with out it.
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post #8474 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:44 AM
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Thank you for replying to my post, I appreciate your feedback. Is line bleed something that happens with all plasmas or is it luck of the draw? Will it dissipate in time or is it kust an issue that I have to deal with? Nit that it's that big of an issue but Just wondering if it would be worth swapping my panel with another to see if I can get one with out it.

It's normal. It will always be there. Every panel panasonic makes suffers from this. It shouldn't get worse but it's not going to get better.

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post #8475 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:48 AM
 
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Okay, perhaps more susceptible than last year's, but nothing that I see in terms of IR remaining for hours or days, and I haven't seen any user report complaints about IR (though I have read far fewer admittedly).
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post #8476 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:52 AM
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Is there a way to turn off the ads? It is very annoying that to see an ad displayed when changing the volume not to mention the ones on the home screen. Is this just how all SMART Tvs are now? Last one I had was 2010 Sony Bravia but no ads.

It's not like the TV was subsidized, I would have hoped after shelling out 1700 bucks they wouldn't force ads on me.
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post #8477 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post


Okay, perhaps more susceptible than last year's, but nothing that I see in terms of IR remaining for hours or days, and I haven't seen any user report complaints about IR (though I have read far fewer admittedly).

 

Same here, I never hear about owners talking about IR on Samsung, buzzing yes but not IR. 

 

I figured the best way for me to see if I can live with the IR is to use the TV as a normal TV and see the results. Luckily I bought the TV from amazon and have until the end of January to return it due to the holiday return policy so I may as well use it how its going to be used and if I see there are issues, I can always return it. I would like to keep it as it looks great, I got it for the cyber monday price and I received the free sound bar!

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post #8478 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by shadestreet View Post

Is there a way to turn off the ads? It is very annoying that to see an ad displayed when changing the volume not to mention the ones on the home screen. Is this just how all SMART Tvs are now? Last one I had was 2010 Sony Bravia but no ads.

It's not like the TV was subsidized, I would have hoped after shelling out 1700 bucks they wouldn't force ads on me.

Settings - very easy to stop. Search the thread for exact answer or check out the manual. It's been 6 months but I believe its an option during setup.
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post #8479 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:14 AM
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Is there a way to turn off the ads? It is very annoying that to see an ad displayed when changing the volume not to mention the ones on the home screen. Is this just how all SMART Tvs are now? Last one I had was 2010 Sony Bravia but no ads.

It's not like the TV was subsidized, I would have hoped after shelling out 1700 bucks they wouldn't force ads on me.

Menu - Setup - Display Customization - Smart Viera Banner - Turn to off
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post #8480 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:25 AM
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Menu - Setup - Display Customization - Smart Viera Banner - Turn to off

There should be a sticky at the beginning of this thread for FAQ like these.
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post #8481 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:29 AM
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Same here, I never hear about owners talking about IR on Samsung, buzzing yes but not IR. 

I figured the best way for me to see if I can live with the IR is to use the TV as a normal TV and see the results. Luckily I bought the TV from amazon and have until the end of January to return it due to the holiday return policy so I may as well use it how its going to be used and if I see there are issues, I can always return it. I would like to keep it as it looks great, I got it for the cyber monday price and I received the free sound bar!

Free soundbar? I missed that...did you say you bought it on cyber Monday? If so can you tell me the model number of the soundbar, I would like to see if amazon will still honor that deal.
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post #8482 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:32 AM
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It should be noted however, that the eye is vastly more complex when it comes to perception than what a calibration instrument can detect. (An opthamologist can confirm that.) Audiophiles sometimes make this mistake too. They get caught up in "specs", not realizing that what the ear is hearing is far more complex and authoritative than the testing equipment. Trust your eyes and ears as the final word. In the end, it's not about what we test and read; its about what we see and hear. The rods in our eyes detect light and nuance in a far more sensitive and MEANINGFUL way than specs and calibration. Specs, calibration, and measurement devices are useful tools in pointing one toward something, but it should never control the destination or be an end in itself. Using specs as the determining factor is what separates mid-fi from audiophile hi-fi for example. Their specs tell them what to buy and why it's good; audiophiles ears tell them what to buy and why it's good. The same applies to the visual domain. Calibration and testing equipment are tools; not the final authority. 

I was just excited to find a settings mode that wasn't washed out looking like THX cinema and about as bright as Vivid without vivids blown out highlights, noise etc. and wanted to share it with you my friends. 

Seriously you are going to justify your post by saying the eye is superior to a meter? I see its better so then it must be better despite what everyone else sees or what an instrument provides for measurements? No disrespect, but one other forum member seeing it doesn't make it a fact. I posted and offered measurements to dispute your claim and your response is less than scientific and like it or not that is what this forum is about along with a lot of opinions, but not facts smile.gif The reliable eyes can be easily tricked - I would bet you've seen those pictures that the eye thinks looks one way when they don't actually. I will take my professionally calibrated display over a "trick" any day.

Next you are going to tell me that Marantz sounds better than a Denon, Onkyo or Pioneer because based on your hearing you thought it sounded better. The one amp sounding better because I think it did has been debated to death without anyone ever being able to offer anything but their own subjective hearing as proof. We could then move on to the discussion of the use of high end cables for audio and video components. We have a tendency to here and see things that we want to see and hear for whatever reason(s). How do you think some of the makers of audiophile components survive - it cost $1000 more so it has to sound better, right? In the end when someone makes a claim based on what they see and hear that it is all it is - a claim. I won't argue with the if you like it then that's good, but that doesn't mean that everyone else will agree or should run out and do it. That's where it helps to have the measurements back up what you are seeing and hearing.
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post #8483 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:35 AM
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Free soundbar? I missed that...did you say you bought it on cyber Monday? If so can you tell me the model number of the soundbar, I would like to see if amazon will still honor that deal.

I bought it the week before cyber Monday but had them refund me the price difference on cyber monday. The soundbar offer wasn't going on during cyber Monday.
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post #8484 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:38 AM
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There should be a sticky at the beginning of this thread for FAQ like these.

Have at it smile.gif
If you have ever followed a thread where that is done, there is one forum member doing them. Oppo threads and Batpig on the Denon receiver thread being a few examples. Very helpful I agree, but a big sacrifice in time for the person doing it. Otherwise, the mighty search function works surprising well, speaking from my own experience(s).
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post #8485 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:39 AM
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Even though I have a ZT60 (and as both panels are obviously close brethren), since the IR topic is a hot one, I thought I'd update you all on my aforementioned lamentations: After running the pixel flipper for 11 hours in vivid mode, I am happy to report that the Fox Sports logo is about 95% gone (this logo was on-screen through approximately 2 games, so 6-9 hours interspersed with commercial breaks). What I'm not happy about is I had to engage this expensive (power drain) "feature" at all.

This is my biggest future worry. Even if the pixel flipper does eventually take care of the IR, I hate to say it, but so what? So every time I play video games for over an hour, I'll have to throw in the WOW disc for two days just to clear everything up? Ugh.

I usually replace my TV every 18-24 months, but was really really really hoping this one would last me a good, long while since Panasonic is done with plasmas.
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Free soundbar? I missed that...did you say you bought it on cyber Monday? If so can you tell me the model number of the soundbar, I would like to see if amazon will still honor that deal.

The soundbar was a promo a solid month ago (early November). It was just some random 2.1 thing that I immediately sold to a coworker. Amazon has since dropped the price of the 65" by $300 (last I checked) so doubt they'd match something from that long ago.

Panasonic SCHTB370 2.1-Channel Soundbar with Wireless Subwoofer
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post #8486 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:40 AM
 
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^You are right to be worried. I was hoping this would last me 5 years as well, but I'm beginning to think I'll be looking to upgrade much sooner.
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Seriously you are going to justify your post by saying the eye is superior to a meter? I see its better so then it must be better despite what everyone else sees or what an instrument provides for measurements? No disrespect, but one other forum member seeing it doesn't make it a fact. I posted and offered measurements to dispute your claim and your response is less than scientific and like it or not that is what this forum is about along with a lot of opinions, but not facts smile.gif The reliable eyes can be easily tricked - I would bet you've seen those pictures that the eye thinks looks one way when they don't actually. I will take my professionally calibrated display over a "trick" any day.

Next you are going to tell me that Marantz sounds better than a Denon, Onkyo or Pioneer because based on your hearing you thought it sounded better. In the end when someone makes a claim based on what they see and hear that it is all it is - a claim. I won't argue with the if you like it then that's good, but that doesn't mean that everyone else will agree. That's where it helps to have the measurements back up what you are seeing and hearing.
No joke. Double-blind tests should provide the ultimate say, which has been most clearly demonstrated to me in the realm of psychoacoustics (digital recreation of audio, both lossy and lossless). Both eyes and ears can play tricks thanks to confirmation bias and the placebo effect, not to mention variables outside of one's control in a random comparison outside of a laboratory setting.
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post #8487 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:56 AM
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I used amazon prime - and was very happy with the price and delivery by pilot went very well, he removed packing, put the batteries in remotes and we both checked the tv , after and while powered up. Their are many post' on this very subject. Good luck- i think you will be very happy with this outstanding plasma. I have just over 100 hours on mine-- time to get serious with it!! mine is a 55 vt60,

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I bought mine through amazon and so far I am happy, however my experience hasn't been issue free. For starters upon delivery the company didn't want to bring the tv in my house, they started they only drop off the merchandise, then he wouldn't open it or set it up as amazon states they will. I didn't accept the delivery, amazon recovered it two days later and gave me 113$ back. On the second delivery I couldn't plug the tv in and test it due to the temperature outside, they said it needed around 4 hours to warm the tv to room temperature. Talked to amazon, they gave me a hundred dollar credit for the inconvenience and called me the next day to see if everything was working satisfactorily upon testing it. Overall amazon has been very good to work with considering the minor inconveniences I have experienced, and I have gotten $213 back on a tv I picked up at a great rate to begin with ($2149). In any case, if you are going to buy through amazon I would do so sooner than later as it is now listed at $2399, and had risen about $100 in the post week or less, and roughly $250 since I ordered mine on cyber Monday.

Thanks for this info. Deliveries from Amazon definitely seem to vary. Anyone with experience purchasing and getting delivery from VE, I'm interested in your thoughts. My original post is here:

BDP-83 EAP (first 50)
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post #8488 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 11:56 AM
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I also want to sell the soundbar but won't in case I end up returning the TV.
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post #8489 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post


Seriously you are going to justify your post by saying the eye is superior to a meter? I see its better so then it must be better despite what everyone else sees or what an instrument provides for measurements? No disrespect, but one other forum member seeing it doesn't make it a fact. I posted and offered measurements to dispute your claim and your response is less than scientific and like it or not that is what this forum is about along with a lot of opinions, but not facts smile.gif The reliable eyes can be easily tricked - I would bet you've seen those pictures that the eye thinks looks one way when they don't actually. I will take my professionally calibrated display over a "trick" any day.

Next you are going to tell me that Marantz sounds better than a Denon, Onkyo or Pioneer because based on your hearing you thought it sounded better. The one amp sounding better because I think it did has been debated to death without anyone ever being able to offer anything but their own subjective hearing as proof. We could then move on to the discussion of the use of high end cables for audio and video components. We have a tendency to here and see things that we want to see and hear for whatever reason(s). How do you think some of the makers of audiophile components survive - it cost $1000 more so it has to sound better, right? In the end when someone makes a claim based on what they see and hear that it is all it is - a claim. I won't argue with the if you like it then that's good, but that doesn't mean that everyone else will agree or should run out and do it. That's where it helps to have the measurements back up what you are seeing and hearing.


(Before anyone goes off on me about this not being about this form, keep in mind, I am RESPONDING to HIS VIDEO and AUDIO retort above. My point below is not that one has to own expensive equipment. In fact many things I have seen and heard are not much more expensive than "hi-end" mid-fi. Sometimes it can be less expensive. I am merely maintaining that the hi-end esoteric audiophile/videophile community evaluates gear on the same exact basis that this poster so easily dismisses.)

 You'd better stay away from audiophile audio shops. Yes they rely on their subjective hearing as proof. No I'm not going to tell you that Marantz sounds better than Denon, Onkyo, or Pioneer. What I will tell you is that hi-end stores don't even carry those consumer brands. If I were to tell you what does sound good, you wouldn't even have heard of the brands - yet you would surely denounce it anyway. (Yes, I'm quickly learning how you reason.) The brands you mention cater to your mid-fi mentality. I am very familiar with your arguments. I held them too when I didn't know any better. I used to argue your point better than you can. But I wasn't so pompous as to refuse to address arguments different than my own - or to quote you again, "Not going to even address #1".  But we grow, we learn, we change, we discover. Here's one to get that mid-fi mentality going tilt: Vinyl sounds better than CDs. The best pre-amps and amps have no equalizers or bass/treble tone controls. This and other "preposterous" statements are clearly outside the realm of where you shop, what you read, and what you are familiar with but are common place in the audiophile world. The same ideas apply to the video world as well. I had wanted to continue to be nice on this post, but those such as yourself feel very free to assault others with rude, bombastic, defensive arguments. This is NOT a completely friendly forum. Didn't realize I too can keep up with the rude bluntness I have been given? If you don't like it, change your posts and then you can go after me some more.  I know exactly what I'm talking about. I don't need to go into what I have owned, tested or what shops I have had to travel to in order to find my "ilk". If you showed up with internet printouts of the "specs" and Consumer Reports, they would laugh you out of the store and send you to Best Buy. No they wouldn't argue and reason with you and I won't either. Specs are designed and hyped by manufactures to meet the consumer needs of the general public who has neither the time or inclination to go to an audiophile store and sit and listen as a "guest" in one of these stores to only one set up at a time for an hour or two to each system. Yes, they do carry affordable "systems". But with specs, one can "shop the internet" and feel confident about their purchase - giving corporate America sales by volume; not by quality. This simply cannot be done in the audiophile/videophile world. If you experienced one of these systems, even for a few minutes, you would abandon your arguments. But take comfort in knowing that the majority of consumer-prosumers are unaware of all of this. I'm sure the good o'l Consumer Reports will confirm all of your "specs" and keep you, and two of your five senses - your eyes, and ears forever from being "tricked". I give you the last word here.- and trust me, I know you will take it. After all, if you have the last word - it always means your right. NOTHING I say will convince you. But what you refuse to know. . . can't ever hurt you.


Matey's, If ye liek me posts, I pander,
for two thumbs up when ye take a gander! Aaarh! - Sargy
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post #8490 of 14762 Old 12-16-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PolishDude View Post

I also want to sell the soundbar but won't in case I end up returning the TV.




since you got the sound bar free-- why not consider it a nice Christmas gift to someone you care about. just a thought--- one gift down, right!
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