Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 292 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8731 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SCriss View Post

Ok. Here's where I out myself. The fundamental problem here is my 1990s era "AV" receiver. It's strictly 2.0. So in order to just add a sub, I'd have to replace the receiver. Spending the coin on a new receiver just to add a sub seems wasteful. I will never be able to add a 5.1 speaker system. It just won't work with the weird geometry of my room setup. So the question is whether it is worth it to get a new receiver just to add a sub, or will a soundbar with sub be sufficent for me after all, I'm not going for a home theater here. I'm just trying to help out the tv, since it is an incredible display device, but the speakers are ridiculous. I think a decent soundbar will do the trick.

Anyway, on to more important issues: the sticker with the serial,number on the back of my VT60 is a little crooked. I checked it witha level and a plumb line and I am pretty sure it's off a little bit. Should I send it back?

Most subs have high level inputs but then you'd need speaker wire going to the sub and THEN to the left/right channel.

I once had an odd shaped room that was open on one side-- killer as my surrounds are dipole. I switched to monopole rears and hid the speakers to the sides of the couch pointing straight up at the ceiling. Guess what? Worked great! I still had fairly accurate imaging while retaining most of the diffuse sound I so appreciate from my dipole rears.

Understand, I'm not trying to piss anyone off it's just that the difference between even a very basic two channel system and the typical soundbar is so extreme that I really think more people would find room (both physically and in the budget) for the two channel system if they heard it. Just the ability to reposition the drivers is a mammoth upgrade to the fixed nature of the soundbar (this doesn't apply to the Yamaha sound projector as it's design takes in to account the limited stereo seperation). Add to that the fact an amp/stereo pair will allow you to do so much more and I really think it's the better choice. That being said, my uncle just purchased a set of the Andrew Jones pioneer speakers in 5.1 and he says he's mighty impressed. I have yet to hear them myself but I've seen a lot of praise for this man's products around the web and it makes me curious to hear the unit bond007 posted a link to.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
Consider yourself lucky that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far, which given your present circumstances seems to be more likely, consider yourself lucky that it won't be troubling you much longer...

-- Excerpt from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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post #8732 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

All this IR talk has me wanting to cancel my VT order and go with an ST. Doesn't seem to be as many people with pretty big issues over in that thread. Unless I just read over it. Not being able to watch a football game without something retaining seems pretty bad considering how on replays and commercials it's not showing up and should be wiped out.

I've read a lot of the ST60 thread because up until the Black Friday/Cyber Monday weekend I was planning on purchasing a 60ST60. The price drop on the 60VT60 combined with the 60ST60 staying the same meant only a $250 difference. I couldn't pass on the 60VT60. Other than the potential for fan noise on the VT60 I never got the impression that the VT60 was better or worse than the ST60 with regard to IR.

It seems it's luck of the draw. Some panels are more susceptible for whatever reason(s). Some people get IR day one. Others initially don't have IR and then at 500 or 1000 hrs they suddenly start seeing it. Yet, others claim never to have IR despite playing tons of games and watching lots of sports. Beyond panels differing, people's viewing habits differ, people's perception of IR differs.

I'm a gamer and watch a lot of sports, particularly soccer. As great as the VT60 is I couldn't pass it up despite the risk of IR.
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post #8733 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

All this IR talk has me wanting to cancel my VT order and go with an ST. Doesn't seem to be as many people with pretty big issues over in that thread. Unless I just read over it. Not being able to watch a football game without something retaining seems pretty bad considering how on replays and commercials it's not showing up and should be wiped out.

It's a couple of people on a forum that had/have issues, not the entire run. I think it's wise to keep some perspective when reading any forum in general that what you read is a small sample size. And as with anything in life you can read 100 reviews of people that love something but then see 2 negative reviews and all of a sudden we second guess our decisions.

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post #8734 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by freeride View Post

You want OCD, or how about partial psychosis? Try: Audiocircle

Here's another good one:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/forums/audio-hardware.5/
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post #8735 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 01:58 PM
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To share a little of my experience with others I beat Super Mario 3D world *post game spoiler ahead Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
and am currently on the special stages
and haven't seen any IR on my panel.

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post #8736 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kamouflage View Post

It's a couple of people on a forum that had/have issues, not the entire run. I think it's wise to keep some perspective when reading any forum in general that what you read is a small sample size. And as with anything in life you can read 100 reviews of people that love something but then see 2 negative reviews and all of a sudden we second guess our decisions.
I just needed perspective from both ends from people who had been following the line and this thread.

The plasma I am replacing was used exclusively for playing NCAA football on the 360 for almost 8 months at one point and then probably 75% over the next 3 releases. So the EA logo and ESPN score bar are legitimately burned in, but unless I am on a white screen and look for it I still cannot tell. So I can't say I am too worried about seeing IR if I can only see it while playing slides and being right up on the screen looking for it.
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post #8737 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jarsofwei View Post

Yikes, is that still the one u-play logo from AC4 that's stuck? or are there other hud elements stuck too?

edit: how long of a stretch do you typically play games for? i only do 1-2 hours max at a time..

Yeah, the AC4 uplay logo. I play games for long stretches, but the day I got this IR was probably around 2-3 hours. I was just screwing around on side missions and with the PS4 still being new, I was switching games fairly frequently.

That's physically the only thing ever that has stuck for more than a few seconds. I've beat Killzone and played countless MP, Need for Speed, Resogun out the wahoo, beat Call of Duty (rental) in one sitting, etc. The only thing I can guess is that it's because it was a bright solid white object.
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post #8738 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by forensick View Post

Yeah, the AC4 uplay logo. I play games for long stretches, but the day I got this IR was probably around 2-3 hours. I was just screwing around on side missions and with the PS4 still being new, I was switching games fairly frequently.

That's physically the only thing ever that has stuck for more than a few seconds. I've beat Killzone and played countless MP, Need for Speed, Resogun out the wahoo, beat Call of Duty (rental) in one sitting, etc. The only thing I can guess is that it's because it was a bright solid white object.

Gosh that's annoying and I'm sorry to hear that. The u-play logo is pretty obnoxious. I guess I've gotta figure out how to turn off u-play before i get my tv.. please do let us know if it eventually goes away..
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post #8739 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jarsofwei View Post

Gosh that's annoying and I'm sorry to hear that. The u-play logo is pretty obnoxious. I guess I've gotta figure out how to turn off u-play before i get my tv.. please do let us know if it eventually goes away..

Even if you disconnect from uplay, the icon is still there, just greyed out a little! The only way to get rid of it is to turn off the entire mini-map (which isn't really a legit option).

I'll definitely let you know if/when it clears up.
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post #8740 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:35 PM
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With some of the great prices on this lately I think I am ready to pull the trigger for christmas. A few questions first as this would be my 1st plasma:

1. I watch a lot of sports and play my fair share of games. The IR issues concern me, even though complaints are surely exponentially in the minority vs those who are content with their sets. I see their warranty doesn't cover IR, is it worth considering 3-4 years of a square trade warranty in case something permanent happens for $120-180? I do have the Disney W.O.W. disc to use as well.

2. Speaking of the W.O.W. disc, while not a substitute for professional calibration, and from someone who never had their Vizio 42" LCD calibrated, should this be enough to tweak a reasonably good picture out of the set? Are there other online settings I should consider?

3. Slides. Yes? No? Maybe? I saw Dnice's slides, I believe they are for all the 2013 Pannies? How many people use them at first start for the 100 hours as recommended?

Thanks folks!
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post #8741 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by borat!!! View Post

Thank you Larry, it confirms my own suspicions that warm2 is too earthy with a color temp prolly 6300. its nice to see how uniform red and green are.
i may actually stick with warm1, as they are essentially the same DeltaE accept a little cooler. One more question is it possible to see where the gamma lies at each setting, (2.2, 2.4, 2.6) im not sure what setting you were using, thank you again great charts

I measured them all with the factory default Gamma settings but I did not note them. You can look at your default settings. Normally, they are set at 2.4 which yields a measured gamma of about 2.2 or so. Rule of thumb: If you decrease the Gamma setting (say from 2.4 to 2.2), the measured gamma point curve will decrease by close to 0.2 pretty evenly across the range.

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post #8742 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

All this IR talk has me wanting to cancel my VT order and go with an ST. Doesn't seem to be as many people with pretty big issues over in that thread. Unless I just read over it. Not being able to watch a football game without something retaining seems pretty bad considering how on replays and commercials it's not showing up and should be wiped out.

My ST60 displays more IR than my VT60, though it's still next to nothing on my ST60. I just notice netflix movie boxes staying around momentarily after browsing for awhile.

I've watched several Sunday's worth of NFL games and not had any logos stick on either panel.
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post #8743 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by emerson1 View Post

All this IR talk has me wanting to cancel my VT order and go with an ST. Doesn't seem to be as many people with pretty big issues over in that thread. Unless I just read over it. Not being able to watch a football game without something retaining seems pretty bad considering how on replays and commercials it's not showing up and should be wiped out.
I owned an ST60. It got IR, pretty stubborn actually from watching something for 2 hours. I now have the VT. I figured if I was going to deal with IR, might as well be on one the best plasma's ever made. The VT so far seems like it has been cleaning up better. I don't care about getting IR, what I care about is how quickly it disappears.
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post #8744 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by schmiggyjk View Post

With some of the great prices on this lately I think I am ready to pull the trigger for christmas. A few questions first as this would be my 1st plasma:

1. I watch a lot of sports and play my fair share of games. The IR issues concern me, even though complaints are surely exponentially in the minority vs those who are content with their sets. I see their warranty doesn't cover IR, is it worth considering 3-4 years of a square trade warranty in case something permanent happens for $120-180? I do have the Disney W.O.W. disc to use as well.

2. Speaking of the W.O.W. disc, while not a substitute for professional calibration, and from someone who never had their Vizio 42" LCD calibrated, should this be enough to tweak a reasonably good picture out of the set? Are there other online settings I should consider?

3. Slides. Yes? No? Maybe? I saw Dnice's slides, I believe they are for all the 2013 Pannies? How many people use them at first start for the 100 hours as recommended?

Thanks folks!
Burn-in is considered customer abuse. Best Buy is the only ext. warranty that offers burn-in coverage AFAIK.
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post #8745 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by schmiggyjk View Post

With some of the great prices on this lately I think I am ready to pull the trigger for christmas. A few questions first as this would be my 1st plasma:

1. I watch a lot of sports and play my fair share of games. The IR issues concern me, even though complaints are surely exponentially in the minority vs those who are content with their sets. I see their warranty doesn't cover IR, is it worth considering 3-4 years of a square trade warranty in case something permanent happens for $120-180? I do have the Disney W.O.W. disc to use as well.

2. Speaking of the W.O.W. disc, while not a substitute for professional calibration, and from someone who never had their Vizio 42" LCD calibrated, should this be enough to tweak a reasonably good picture out of the set? Are there other online settings I should consider?

3. Slides. Yes? No? Maybe? I saw Dnice's slides, I believe they are for all the 2013 Pannies? How many people use them at first start for the 100 hours as recommended?

Thanks folks!

I just got a vt60 and I'm using the slides when bout watching the tv, when I do watch I do so in full screen to break it in. I dint know if a professional calibration is necessary, but I've heard of great improvements I in those who have used dnices slides and pictures settings afterwards. That's what I plan on doing.
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post #8746 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fcb View Post

I do- THX warm 1 please.

EDIT: The charts below are for Warm2 not Warm1. Sorry for causing any confusion. Warm1 will move the blue line up about 12-15% or so in the grayscale chart and mostly shift the magenta point clockwise.

Factory defaults with any available junk turned off.

THX Cinema grayscale:



THX Cinema gamma:



THX Cinema gamut:



N.B. Grayscale deltaE looks different from a previous post of mine because this time I used the same method for calculations that I used for the other recent posted measurements.


Larry
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post #8747 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by schmiggyjk View Post

With some of the great prices on this lately I think I am ready to pull the trigger for christmas. A few questions first as this would be my 1st plasma:

1. I watch a lot of sports and play my fair share of games. The IR issues concern me, even though complaints are surely exponentially in the minority vs those who are content with their sets. I see their warranty doesn't cover IR, is it worth considering 3-4 years of a square trade warranty in case something permanent happens for $120-180? I do have the Disney W.O.W. disc to use as well.

2. Speaking of the W.O.W. disc, while not a substitute for professional calibration, and from someone who never had their Vizio 42" LCD calibrated, should this be enough to tweak a reasonably good picture out of the set? Are there other online settings I should consider?

3. Slides. Yes? No? Maybe? I saw Dnice's slides, I believe they are for all the 2013 Pannies? How many people use them at first start for the 100 hours as recommended?

Thanks folks!
1. Only warranty that covers it is Best Buy's and it's considerably more expensive than Square Trade.

2. Yes it's a good starting point. I personally like Cnet's the best and have used them since they were posted.

3. Slides from D-Nice were only to age the phosphors in the panel the exact same way he did so his settings would translate better to your set. If you take a look at his settings thread he describes this and has a bold red disclaimer that they are not for break in to prevent any burn-in or IR. I didn't use them

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post #8748 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Factory defaults with any available junk turned off.

THX Cinema grayscale:



THX Cinema gamma:



THX Cinema gamut:



N.B. Grayscale deltaE looks different from a previous post of mine because this time I used the same method for calculations that I used for the other recent posted measurements.


Larry
Thanks for all of this info.

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post #8749 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 02:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kamouflage View Post

It's a couple of people on a forum that had/have issues, not the entire run. I think it's wise to keep some perspective when reading any forum in general that what you read is a small sample size. And as with anything in life you can read 100 reviews of people that love something but then see 2 negative reviews and all of a sudden we second guess our decisions.
To be fair, it's only a couple who have chimed in this afternoon (mountain time). There are others who just haven't chimed in...either way it's something to be mindful about.
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post #8750 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kamouflage View Post

1. Only warranty that covers it is Best Buy's and it's considerably more expensive than Square Trade.

2. Yes it's a good starting point. I personally like Cnet's the best and have used them since they were posted.

3. Slides from D-Nice were only to age the phosphors in the panel the exact same way he did so his settings would translate better to your set. If you take a look at his settings thread he describes this and has a bold red disclaimer that they are not for break in to prevent any burn-in or IR. I didn't use them

Okay, I will check out CNet's as well.

I can go without the TV for 4 days when it gets here so I have no problem doing this to age the phosphors and lead to a better picture. And I did note that it does nothing for IR.

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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Burn-in is considered customer abuse. Best Buy is the only ext. warranty that offers burn-in coverage AFAIK.

Does anyone go with BB's warranty? Is it worthwhile? How often is IR permanent? Im okay with using the W.O.W. disc of the built in pixel flipper from time to time if its going to remove all the IR. But if I have to worry about permanent IR I'd almost be tempted to to try and get BB to price match and or offer a deal on their warranty.
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post #8751 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 03:09 PM
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Just took delivery of my 65"VT60 - I have joined the club! I'm replacing a 2009 Samsung PN58B860 that I have been very happy with, but at these prices and the great reviews, I couldn't resist. I am hoping the new panel will be a noticeable improvement.

Panel bought from Amazon and delivered today by Pilot. Despite the white glove delivery offered by Amazon, the Pilot driver said he was not supposed to attach the base or help me put the TV on my stand. A nice tip and a can of coke later, he helped me with both - but after I signed off on the delivery. No problem. It's cold out so I didn't turn on the TV until about 5 hours later and I'm running the slides.

I've got an October build date and zero fan noise.

For the slide break-in, is it OK to run it for 100 hours continuously?
Has anyone had issues with the slides stopping on their own while doing this?

Thanks.
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post #8752 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Factory defaults with any available junk turned off.

THX Cinema grayscale:



THX Cinema gamma:



THX Cinema gamut:



N.B. Grayscale deltaE looks different from a previous post of mine because this time I used the same method for calculations that I used for the other recent posted measurements.


Larry

Many thanks, Larry. Your measurements support what my eyes tell me, that THX in warm 1 is pretty close to spec; and that warm 2 is too warm.
I'm especially impressed with the flatness of the gamma.

Fred

Don't make 'em like they used to, but charge you double price, promise you steak but give you beans and rice.
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Panasonic 65VT60

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post #8753 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic8796 View Post

Just took delivery of my 65"VT60 - I have joined the club! I'm replacing a 2009 Samsung PN58B860 that I have been very happy with, but at these prices and the great reviews, I couldn't resist. I am hoping the new panel will be a noticeable improvement.

Panel bought from Amazon and delivered today by Pilot. Despite the white glove delivery offered by Amazon, the Pilot driver said he was not supposed to attach the base or help me put the TV on my stand. A nice tip and a can of coke later, he helped me with both - but after I signed off on the delivery. No problem. It's cold out so I didn't turn on the TV until about 5 hours later and I'm running the slides.

I've got an October build date and zero fan noise.

For the slide break-in, is it OK to run it for 100 hours continuously?
Has anyone had issues with the slides stopping on their own while doing this?

Thanks.

100 continuous hours should be fine. There should be no additional heat build up after the first 30 minutes or so. If the panel couldn't take continuous use hours then they would not sell it. Enjoy your panel. I got mine today too (one of the last ones from ABT, they are now out of stock, September build date, foam fan fix functioning flawlessly) and am currently at 2 hours running slides. Woot!


 

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post #8754 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

Most subs have high level inputs but then you'd need speaker wire going to the sub and THEN to the left/right channel.

I once had an odd shaped room that was open on one side-- killer as my surrounds are dipole. I switched to monopole rears and hid the speakers to the sides of the couch pointing straight up at the ceiling. Guess what? Worked great! I still had fairly accurate imaging while retaining most of the diffuse sound I so appreciate from my dipole rears.

Understand, I'm not trying to piss anyone off it's just that the difference between even a very basic two channel system and the typical soundbar is so extreme that I really think more people would find room (both physically and in the budget) for the two channel system if they heard it. Just the ability to reposition the drivers is a mammoth upgrade to the fixed nature of the soundbar (this doesn't apply to the Yamaha sound projector as it's design takes in to account the limited stereo seperation). Add to that the fact an amp/stereo pair will allow you to do so much more and I really think it's the better choice. That being said, my uncle just purchased a set of the Andrew Jones pioneer speakers in 5.1 and he says he's mighty impressed. I have yet to hear them myself but I've seen a lot of praise for this man's products around the web and it makes me curious to hear the unit bond007 posted a link to.

Well dammit, sage, now you have me doubting myself. Maybe I'll replace my bookshelf speakers with the Pioneer Andrew Jones bookshelf speakers for a start and go from there.......

I just took my VT60 out of the box and started watching it. Is that ok?
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post #8755 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 05:40 PM
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Well dammit, sage, now you have me doubting myself. Maybe I'll replace my bookshelf speakers with the Pioneer Andrew Jones bookshelf speakers for a start and go from there.......
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post #8756 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 05:47 PM
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Got my 60VT60 in today, and I'm running DNice's slides. I'm in Custom picture mode. Is that right that contrast should be 100 in this setting? Should I turn it down at all?
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post #8757 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 06:05 PM
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Got my 60VT60 in today, and I'm running DNice's slides. I'm in Custom picture mode. Is that right that contrast should be 100 in this setting? Should I turn it down at all?
Use Custom default settings.

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post #8758 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 06:08 PM
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Got my 60VT60 in today, and I'm running DNice's slides. I'm in Custom picture mode. Is that right that contrast should be 100 in this setting? Should I turn it down at all?
Follow the instructions for the first 100 hours, and then switch to his calibration settings for normal viewing.
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post #8759 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 06:24 PM
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Wow, sounds like a lot of people got their VTs today. I got my 65VT60 from Amazon delivered by Pilot today. They were 4.5 hours later than the 9-Noon delivery window I had. Oh, well. Did you guys tip the delivery guys? I didn't and now feel bad, though they didn't do much other than bring it in. I had to ask them to open the box so I could inspect the screen before they left. I probably would have tipped them if they weren't so late. I wasn't planning on staying home from work all day.

I've started running the slides and did notice some IR on the white slide initially. It seemed to be from some of the boxes from the Vierra menu but it seems to be gone now. Hopefully it doesn't mean I have a more IR-prone unit. I guess part of being a Plasma owner is worrying about IR! I did order the Disney WOW disc and it sounds like than can help with IR if it is a problem.

How many people does it take to put the 65" on the stand? I'm pretty sure I can't do it by myself!

Sorry, forgot to add that the build date was October 2013. I can really only hear the fans if I put my head right up near them in a quiet room. I think my fridge/Xbox/computer noise in the same area would drown out any fan noise.
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post #8760 of 16889 Old 12-19-2013, 06:32 PM
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I know this is heresy, but forget the slides, set your set to THX warm one, adjust the black and white levels,
and enjoy your programming.

Fred

Don't make 'em like they used to, but charge you double price, promise you steak but give you beans and rice.
Just ain't enough good stuff!

 

Panasonic 65VT60

Yamaha RX-V3900

Ohm Walsh 200 Mk-2

Uverse

HP H8-1360T

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