Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 349 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10441 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:01 PM
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Codeman00 - How about buying a used Pioneer Kuro (with your $2000 to $3000)?
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post #10442 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

Codeman00 - How about buying a used Pioneer Kuro (with your $2000 to $3000)?

I would love to myself but it seems very difficult depending on what part of the country you live in, as many owners won't ship and only want local pickup.
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post #10443 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donat76 View Post

If I was to find the largest window size I could use before ABL kicked in and then placed the a colorimeter just far enough away, where its FOV (Field of View) extended just to the edges of the 100% white window, wouldn't that be the best way to get a better sampling of the color / uniformity of the screen for calibrating? Too bad we can't see what the meter is seeing in order to fill it's FOV without spilling out over the edges of the windows into black or would this not matter really. It's also too bad that the cheaper colorimeters don't have a laser to aim them more accurately.

My original question was this. As the 100% white window size get's smaller, does it continue to get brighter and brighter assuming the meter's FOV (by placement) always fits within that window? Or is there a limit where it just won't get any brighter. i would assume the panel would only supply up to a maximum in any one spot if the window size got too small?

I hope I am making some sense here?

Probably, but when you are in the window size range of 11% down to 5% there isn't going to be much of a difference.

Below is a link for a viewing angle size.
http://store.spectracal.com/article-why-viewing-angle-is-important.

The C6 meter that the chart shows should be the same as a D3 color meter, if that's what you are using.
Show a 100% stim window sized to what you want to use. Take continuous reading when pulling back your meter, when the reading starts to drop you have pulled your meter back to far. When using a meter for a plasma I would suggest using off screen mode, that way when the meter is averaging the pixels the bigger the read area the better up two about two feet.

ss
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post #10444 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:10 PM
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Where do find these Kuros? Ebay? Craig's List? Here?
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post #10445 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I just updated my settings to show what settings I used for that report.

Click on the top link in my sig.

Also note that these setting a done after I ran a 21^3 Profile/LUT, that's why you don't see any Color detail adjustments. .
The Color detail adjustments.are way to big to fit into the settings and memory of the VT60 so I use a external processor and storage unit called eecolor. If you have the eecolor I can send you the settings for the CMS.

ss
Thank you. I do not have an eecolor so guess I should just leave the color detail adjustments at zero?
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post #10446 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Thank you. I do not have an eecolor so guess I should just leave the color detail adjustments at zero?

Yes.

ss

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post #10447 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greginaz1 View Post

Since I was 13 I have worn contacts/glasses because I was near sighted...now my reading vision is going...argh!

I'm watching Sleepy Hollow now and the picture is amazing in the dark room...man, how I go back and forth...my wife and probably several others want to kill me...her mainly because she loves the old Pioneer in her 'space' now and doesn't want to give it back...lol

Isn't America great?! My biggest issue is deciding on what few thousand dollar TV I want to watch...
It's pretty funny. I always think I am talking to a bunch of kids here and then realize most of us are in our 30's and 40's. We still act like kids I guess, just with more expensive toys. Lol
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post #10448 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by vic_0002 View Post

I would love to myself but it seems very difficult depending on what part of the country you live in, as many owners won't ship and only want local pickup.

I've got a 50" krp-500m in great shape, stand, no red tint, and am willing to ship in original box. Just sayin'.
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post #10449 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by greginaz1 View Post

Thank you.

Didn't see that and will read ASAP.

I have tried panel brightness to max and it seems to wash out things...which like you said means more adjustments elsewhere...and I only have a week left before I need to return this.

I really just think my personal preference is for 'bright' and this set is 'dim' and meant for dark rooms for great black level performance.

Changed panel brightness to high and it does brighten but for example if I'm watching news and one of the newscasters is wearing a black suit is it still REALLY black and I can't really detect say his sleeve edge against the body of his jacket or leg...

Greg, just curious, how many hours total do you have on your VT60? I bought my 65VT60 on Cyber Monday and and have thought about returning it ever since (I have until end of this month). My frame of reference is a 63B590 Samsung plasma from late 2009 which I love - and just decided to move to another room. I have tried all of the various settings both stock, along with S&V, CNET, Dnice ISF-Day (and some others). For weeks I settled on D-Nice while admitting it was only marginally better than THX-Cinema. But lately I've been really happy with the CNet setting.

More importantly, I also thought the set was dim but my biggest issue was a lack of clarity/low-level resolution. I chalked it up to inferior video processing in the Panny vs. the Sammy (note I spend 99% of my time watching FiOS). But I've read a few other posts and reviews on Amazon (including a recent one) that talks about this set improving as you get more hours on it. I cannot agree more. I swear the set starting getting brighter (certainly bright enough for me) at around the 300-hour mark. But I was still disappointed with the clarity. Around the 375-hour, I swear the clarity starting getting better every day. I believe the low-level resolution issue is a result of the excess dithering which definitely improves over time as the phosphors age.

As I close in on 400 hours, I'm now starting to love the set. I'm starting to think that no one should judge this set critically until you get 400-500 hours on it. I know you're coming up on your return period but if you do not have have 400 hours on it yet, I would run it 24/7 and see if your concerns go away. Good luck with whichever way you go!
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post #10450 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

So your watch your TV with the color set to normal? Isn't that against what every calibrator uses? Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

I should have added that Tom Hoffman (CromaPure) was the one who came up with the idea of using Color temp Normal, after he did a calibration for someone's VT60.
And as you can tell I agree with Tom.

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post #10451 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

The 2.0 limitation is a copyright issue and no manufacture is allowed to design an escape hatch.

ARC will pass surround sound for all internal sources and built in applications. It will not pass surround sound from external sources connected with HDMI or other inputs.

Your coax input from your antenna is internal to your TV because the signal is going through the TV's tuner.

I appreciate the clarification, thank you!
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post #10452 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I should have added that Tom Hoffman (CromaPure) was the one who came up with the idea of using Color temp Normal, after he did a calibration for someone's VT60.
And as you can tell I agree with Tom.

ss
I think I likey the settings. Recommend for others to try.
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post #10453 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by irishnutter View Post

Greg, just curious, how many hours total do you have on your VT60? I bought my 65VT60 on Cyber Monday and and have thought about returning it ever since (I have until end of this month). My frame of reference is a 63B590 Samsung plasma from late 2009 which I love - and just decided to move to another room. I have tried all of the various settings both stock, along with S&V, CNET, Dnice ISF-Day (and some others). For weeks I settled on D-Nice while admitting it was only marginally better than THX-Cinema. But lately I've been really happy with the CNet setting.

More importantly, I also thought the set was dim but my biggest issue was a lack of clarity/low-level resolution. I chalked it up to inferior video processing in the Panny vs. the Sammy (note I spend 99% of my time watching FiOS). But I've read a few other posts and reviews on Amazon (including a recent one) that talks about this set improving as you get more hours on it. I cannot agree more. I swear the set starting getting brighter (certainly bright enough for me) at around the 300-hour mark. But I was still disappointed with the clarity. Around the 375-hour, I swear the clarity starting getting better every day. I believe the low-level resolution issue is a result of the excess dithering which definitely improves over time as the phosphors age.

As I close in on 400 hours, I'm now starting to love the set. I'm starting to think that no one should judge this set critically until you get 400-500 hours on it. I know you're coming up on your return period but if you do not have have 400 hours on it yet, I would run it 24/7 and see if your concerns go away. Good luck with whichever way you go!
I saw someone mention in the ZT thread that when you check the hours on the TV there is a letter in front of it and this starts at A and goes up with the more hours you put on the TV. They believed with each letter the panel got brighter and this was Panasonic's way to help break it in.

Not sure how true that is though.
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post #10454 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by greginaz1 View Post

I hear ya on the options part...I need a TV...and right now pickings are slim with 13s going out the door and 14s maybe a month or two away...

Speaking of Chad...are you asking him for bright panel mode with good PQ settings?

Yes I am. Hopefully he'll get back to me soon with his thoughts and a cost estimate.
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post #10455 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:26 PM
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I finally got my VT60 hooked up, and even without any adjustments or tweaking, I'm amazed at how perfect and natural the picture is compared to LCD. It blows me away when I walk up to it from extreme angles, and the image doesn't wash out at all.

Unfortunately, I'm getting strange artifacts in both of the THX picture modes. So far, I only notice it on one channel, but it's consistently in the exact same spot. When I switch to custom, cinema, home theater, etc., it goes away completely. Switch back to THX, and there it is again. Trails of blocks stream from the square when there's motion on the screen. Has anyone ever seen this before? The last image is the right side of the screen when off. Does this look normal?




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post #10456 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:33 PM
 
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No.....it sounds like you're due a replacement.
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post #10457 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

Codeman00 - How about buying a used Pioneer Kuro (with your $2000 to $3000)?
LOL. Good one!
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post #10458 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:39 PM
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From Tom Huffman:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/4620#post_23654807
Quote:
The ST/VT 50 and 60 series of Panasonic plasmas are incredibly good. I calibrated a VT60 last night and using only the set's internal controls here's what I got.

I have been calibrating Panasonic plasmas for ten years. It is stunning how much better they have gotten. These results were obtained without any fancy multi-point LUT adjustments.

The part in bold typeface is by me.

and

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/4620#post_23663964
Quote:
I had no trouble at all. One thing that I do that is a little unconventional is that I use the Normal color temp setting. This requires lowering blue more than you would when using the Warm2 setting (which is the most accurate starting point), but the results are very good, even at the very low end. The color gamut was very close to perfect with no calibration at all, and using the 2.4 preset the gamma only required some minor tweaks. I don't know what trouble others are having. I didn't have any at all.

[snip]

Again the bold is by me.

So... No LUT required to get a gamut very close to perfect.


Larry
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post #10459 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

No.....it sounds like you're due a replacement.

B-B-But he sees it only on one channel. If it doesn't behave this way on other channels, it would be some oddity specific to that one channel and not the TV.

Larry
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post #10460 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:47 PM
 
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Doh, he'll have to clarify if it happens on other sources. I didn't see a mention. Hopefully, it is the source as you surmise. smile.gif
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post #10461 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

B-B-But he sees it only on one channel. If it doesn't behave this way on other channels, it would be some oddity specific to that one channel and not the TV.

Larry

I thought about the same thing, but why is it there only in THX modes? I've watched this channel every day on my Samsung F7050 that I'm returning, and never had this problem.
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post #10462 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPowers View Post

I thought about the same thing, but why is it there only in THX modes? I've watched this channel every day on my Samsung F7050 that I'm returning, and never had this problem.

Does it happen on any other channel? Does it happen on another source like BD/DVD? If not than it is not the TV.

Larry
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post #10463 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

From Tom Huffman:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/4620#post_23654807
The part in bold typeface is by me.

and

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/4620#post_23663964
Again the bold is by me.

So... No LUT required to get a gamut very close to perfect.


Larry

I never said you needed to use a large LUT to get the hand full of color points correct. Matter of fact as I stated just a few posts down from Tom's the dE's using a large LUT probably wouldn't be as good as Tom's.
What you are missing here is that when I run a Profile/LUT, I use about 9240 color points not just 6 as Tom is using. The more color points that are used the more accurate the million or million's of color's that a display can use.

Anyway I thank you for putting me in a league with Tom, I guess you looked at my GS/CMS report. smile.gif

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Setup dispcalGUI, 2nd link settings for 65EF9500
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post #10464 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Does it happen on any other channel? Does it happen on another source like BD/DVD? If not than it is not the TV.

Larry

No, I haven't noticed it on other channels. I'm not trying to argue with you when you're nice enough to help me out, but why THX mode? Do you happen to know which modes do and don't have pixel orbiter?
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post #10465 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JPowers View Post

No, I haven't noticed it on other channels. I'm not trying to argue with you when you're nice enough to help me out, but why THX mode? Do you happen to know which modes do and don't have pixel orbiter?

I'm not arguing at all. Just trying to help you out.

To check which modes have a pixel orbiter option look at menu > picture > screen settings. Auto is off. If it is grayed out, it does not apply to that mode and is fixed -- probably off.


edit: no I don't know why only THX on one channel.


Larry
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Originally Posted by JPowers View Post

I finally got my VT60 hooked up, and even without any adjustments or tweaking, I'm amazed at how perfect and natural the picture is compared to LCD. It blows me away when I walk up to it from extreme angles, and the image doesn't wash out at all.

Unfortunately, I'm getting strange artifacts in both of the THX picture modes. So far, I only notice it on one channel, but it's consistently in the exact same spot. When I switch to custom, cinema, home theater, etc., it goes away completely. Switch back to THX, and there it is again. Trails of blocks stream from the square when there's motion on the screen. Has anyone ever seen this before? The last image is the right side of the screen when off. Does this look normal
Zoom in on the picture or stretch it out and see if it still remains there. If it is in the source it should disappear or move when the picture gets stretched.
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post #10467 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I'm not arguing at all. Just trying to help you out.

To check which modes have a pixel orbiter option look at menu > picture > screen settings. Auto is off. If it is grayed out, it does not apply to that mode and is fixed -- probably off.


edit: no I don't know why only THX on one channel.


Larry

I wasn't saying you were. smile.gif I didn't want you to think I was (trying to argue) for questioning your opinion, that's all. Thanks for the help, I do appreciate it!
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post #10468 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

From Tom Huffman:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/4620#post_23654807
The part in bold typeface is by me.

and

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1174468/the-official-chromapure-thread/4620#post_23663964
Again the bold is by me.

So... No LUT required to get a gamut very close to perfect.


Larry

That was my 60VT60 he did!
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post #10469 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 09:19 PM
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Make sure all smoothing enhancers are off as well as any noise reduction.
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post #10470 of 16517 Old 01-13-2014, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
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That was my 60VT60 he did!

That's great. Lucky you that he could get a near perfect gamut using only a 6 point control system. smile.gif

Enjoy it,
Larry
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