Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 382 - AVS Forum
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post #11431 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 01:55 PM
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lets chill.

I certainly understand cheap setups having had many in my day. OTOH i really enjoy having quality furniture in my house that makes my system blend into the decor without sticking out. Nice furniture is a taste that some people have - catcher'sdad seems to understand that more than most. It doesn't have to be 'solid' to be nice. Even speakers take advantage of furniture styles and designs these days. For value though sometimes you just have to spend a bit extra - my couch for instance innards are framed with kiln wood. Even with people jumping up and down on that sucker its never warped or broken inwards over 10 years now. Cost a bit more though and looked a bit better than the cheapos since it was built well. Noone should spend above their means for furniture, or tv's for that matter.
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post #11432 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

But then how would you know your tv wad on in a completely black scene without a big ol light letting you know.

A completely black scene actually is NOT completely black in my case, and I think other people also mention this as well... Also, why would you have a completely black scene for a long time? (maybe when you do calibration, but then you will definitely don't want that red light there). Worse, you press the menu button or info or volume and it should bring up something so you would know if your TV is broken or not.
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post #11433 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I've heard several calibrators who don't agree completely with that. I think the bigger issue is the actual delta difference no matter where it's at and when you factor in each area where there can be difference such as greyscale, gamut saturation, and luminance, for example. It all adds up so to speak.

I agree. So, 1-2 is probably the best, but fighting a 0.9 vs 0.5 probably is not worth your time...
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post #11434 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:21 PM
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I've found monetary returns on stands diminish quickly after $700. While I think spending $1700 on a stand is flirting with insanity for those who pull in <$80,000, I guess you could justify it by saying you're buying a $100 cable box stand, a $300 receiver stand, a $200 blu-ray player stand, a $150 gaming console stand, a $100 equalizer stand, a $150 amplifier stand, and a $700 TV stand. Hmm that doesn't sound so bad. And that stand is beautiful. Plus I've always enjoyed flirting with insanity. *Calls best buy*
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post #11435 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:25 PM
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I saw this in the Curtpalme.com Calibration for Dummies Guide:

TIP What Gamma Curve Do I Aim For? The gamma curve that the vast majority of users should aim for will measure about 2.3 from 40%-90% video. Below that the gamma should get progressively higher, producing a gamma of about 2.1 at 10%. This gamma curve will produce excellent results for both high-contrast projectors in dark home theaters and flat panel displays in well-lit living rooms.

This seems to be basically BT.1886ish. I gave it a try using a D3pro meter, 6.5% windows, and Chromapure and really like the results. I used 2.10 at 10%, 2.22 at 20%, and 2.35 for 30-90%. Nice pop and depth with very good shadow detail and no grayish blacks on well mastered material. If you have the time and equipment give it a shot and see what you think.
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post #11436 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I agree. So, 1-2 is probably the best, but fighting a 0.9 vs 0.5 probably is not worth your time...

Always try to go for the best.

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post #11437 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

When it comes to TV furniture I still think it's wise (for those if us without bags of money laying around the house) to spend thriftily even if it means getting something that isn't real wood and most likely won't last-- the reason is my TV likely won't last. NOT that I expect it to fail but the simple fact of the matter is technology is changing everyday and what is hot today won't be tomorrow. We the AV hobbyists tend to stay up with the latest and greatest and that means our furniture needs change as the tech does.

Example: I still get a chuckle whenever I see a friend or relative with a small flat screen shoved into a piece of expensive furniture intended for a CRT tube on the account they don't want to part with the stand they paid so much for. My cousin has a RPTV-- 3 actually-- one is it's own stand, one has a pedestal base and one needs a stand as wide as it is! My Plasma looks oh so sexy floating above my equipment on my omnimount moda echo fake-wood-piece-of-**** but I dare not upgrade as I imagine a curved screen would look pretty strange mounted to it (if it even could)-- nevermind that this stand was designed to carry a 50" max and I'm about to put the 55" on it... And the current hot size is, what, 60"? Next year 70" will probably be the lowest recommendable size.

Buy a good piece of furniture for your bed, your shelves, your kitchen table. For your TV buy whatever is nice looking and cheap. Every new tv I've purchase I've had a new stand to go with it.

 

I agree with most of what you just said unless you can afford the best and really want a great, well made good looking piece of furniture to go in the room. The only thing I would add to your comments is make sure it is made well enough to easily hold a 120 lb piece of gold and will withstand some abuse. My initial comments weren't to degrade anyone's TV stand and it's not important that any of it really be made of solid wood. I only pointed it out for anyone else on here that might go out and buy it because they thought it was all solid wood from comments made on here or in their literature. It happens all the time. That particular one may be very well made and hold up for decades and end up being a great deal. That I have know way of knowing without seeing it in person. Again, that wasn't the point.

 

The fact of the matter is there is total junk furniture made every day from solid wood that will fall apart next week and there is great/sturdy furniture made with plywood, etc. What it all boils down to is the materials it's made of, how it's put together and with what. There are great metal connectors and joinery methods that are sturdy and will last a long time and there are piss poor ones and design methods implemented that I wouldn't set my dogs bowl on top of much less one of these huge TVs. Same goes for furniture you can put together yourself, some is good, some is junk. Apples to apples, solid wood and plywood/veneer will hold up better than particle/fiberboard and unless it's 3/4" bullet proof glass, I would stay away from glass tops for these.

 

Happy shopping!

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post #11438 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Can you run a graph on Buzz's settings found below?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-vt65-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/11220#post_24248753

He did his calibration at 1 hour on his VT60 and curious what a broken in panel would look like with these settings.

Some day maybe I will.-- but I really don't see the sense in checking a plasma that only has one hour on it. It will change and you can visually see it changing during the first 40 or 50 hours. And running a calibration measurement takes time to do the setup and the taking the data itself. (I'm not the type that keeps the meter wired up in operational mode like some others seem to do. biggrin.gif)

I did the first calibration on my 65VT60 when it had about 90 hours on it. The unit has almost 2000 hours now. I have found no significant change.


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post #11439 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:41 PM
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You're right, I certainly won't be running any fool's errands for you. Maybe you can make something better for the guy on a $300 budget. Good luck.

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post #11440 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 02:59 PM
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I think you're right. I'm using a mid 80's stereo cabinet made out of solid oak that's 48" wide and 30" tall. My ZT 60 sits nicely on it even though it hangs over the edge like 4". I don't see the need to spend any money on a new cabinet except for the fact that I wouldn't mind the TV 6" - 8" lower. No doubt the next purchase will be ill suited for whatever I buy. Damn I hate advancing technology!



Your ZT stand almost looks kinda smoky black. Probably the picture right? Looks cool.

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post #11441 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 03:04 PM
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Is all that furniture sold specifically for the Panasonic VT60 TVs? Can I use that furniture for any TV? If so, please start a new thread. It is such a booooooring subject. rolleyes.gif

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post #11442 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

I've found monetary returns on stands diminish quickly after $700. While I think spending $1700 on a stand is flirting with insanity for those who pull in <$80,000, I guess you could justify it by saying you're buying a $100 cable box stand, a $300 receiver stand, a $200 blu-ray player stand, a $150 gaming console stand, a $100 equalizer stand, a $150 amplifier stand, and a $700 TV stand. Hmm that doesn't sound so bad. And that stand is beautiful. Plus I've always enjoyed flirting with insanity. *Calls best buy*


That's a great explanation for the wife. I was a furniture/woodworking guy long before I was a video/sound guy. I really can't stomach putting cheap particle board furniture in my living room regardless of how much I make or spend on my TV. If you're on a budget, keep it simple, go for quality and don't get bitten by the bug of having to update all the time. I love homemade and repurposed stuff. You can easily spend $1,500 on something and end up with mostly particle board, disposable quality. Some cheaper stuff is actually better

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post #11443 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

It is such a booooooring subject. rolleyes.gif

Larry

Yeah but at least they are fighting over it.

Fred

Don't make 'em like they used to, but charge you double price, promise you steak but give you beans and rice.
Just ain't enough good stuff!

 

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post #11444 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Is all that furniture sold specifically for the Panasonic VT60 TVs? Can I use that furniture for any TV? If so, please start a new thread. It is such a booooooring subject. rolleyes.gif

Larry
And here I was thinking I was the only one not enjoying it. Can't we talk about something more exciting like the correct way to make scrambled eggs while watching your VT60?

I cannot believe a TV stand conversation went on for a day. If there was an entire forum dedicated to just TV stands they probably would have only lasted a half a day before needing to shut down for no interest. Haha
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post #11445 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 03:39 PM
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And here I was thinking I was the only one not enjoying it. Can't we talk about something more exciting like the correct way to make scrambled eggs while watching your VT60?

I can show you how to make huevos rancheros? tongue.gif
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post #11446 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 03:41 PM
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I can show you how to make huevos rancheros? tongue.gif
Can we lay the VT60 down on it's back and use it as a cutting board? We need to make sure this is VT60 relevant. Lol
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post #11447 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:15 PM
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@SillySally

Did your 65VT60 do this?




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post #11448 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:22 PM
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Buzz,

Did you check out color = 47?

47 or 48 is where most of us end up.

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post #11449 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:22 PM
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Since I can't seem to find this info anywhere I called panasonic "tech support" to find out if the VT60 supports the frame-packed 1080p/30 stereoscopic 3D format like some samsung models and spoke with Kimberly. If it does I'd upgrade my 2 x 5870s to a 780 or the like with post 1.3b HDMI outputs to get the extra 6 FPS. She informed me the VT60 only supports 24 frames per second "across the board" including 2D 720p, 480p, etc. I promptly hung up on her.
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post #11450 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Buzz,

Did you check out color = 47?

47 or 48 is where most of us end up.

Larry

47 was worse than 50. On this particular display, 48 is definitely the sweet spot. RGB separation is a curious thing and it wasn't until the last couple of months that the LS beta testers took full account of the power of the Color control, more appropriately labeled Chroma Gain.

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post #11451 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

47 was worse than 50. On this particular display, 48 is definitely the sweet spot. RGB separation is a curious thing and it wasn't until the last couple of months that the LS beta testers took full account of the power of the Color control, more appropriately labeled Chroma Gain.

Are you saying that LS is just starting to understand the color control? BTW, on different models from different manufacturers sometimes it acts as a chroma gain sometimes as a luminance gain and even sometimes as a combination of both.

Also, sticking with the VT60 which is after all just a consumer electronic device, the component tolerance is great enough to negate a single "sweet spot" for all units.


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post #11452 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:49 PM
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I indeed found that using Color @ 47 produced the best results on my 55VT60, since I'm using it as a Luminance controller initially before messing with the CMS. My latest calibration using the 10% GCD window patterns and 75%/75% is so far looking good. Using my Colormunki spectro with the latest HCFR fork I achieved the following:

avg gs dE 0.45
avg colors dE 0.62
avg colorchecker dE 0.82 (2.5 highest with blue flower)
avg gamma 2.22

BT.1886ish gamma achieved using 2.4 gamma and only making very tiny changes from 30-90 (max of 3 notches)




Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings

Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings

HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT150 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60

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post #11453 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

47 was worse than 50. On this particular display, 48 is definitely the sweet spot. RGB separation is a curious thing and it wasn't until the last couple of months that the LS beta testers took full account of the power of the Color control, more appropriately labeled Chroma Gain.

Are you saying that LS is just starting to understand the color control? BTW, on different models from different manufacturers sometimes it acts as a chroma gain sometimes as a luminance gain and even sometimes as a combination of both.

Also, sticking with the VT60 which is after all just a consumer electronic device, the component tolerance is great enough to negate a single "sweet spot" for all units.


Larry

Nope, I'm saying the beta testers have added this check to our workflow as it wasn't (maybe still isn't) published. It wasn't until fairly recently even big name studios just hooked up a Hubble and let 'er go. Accuracy is improving every year - now if they could just come up with a published Gamma standard for everyone to work with.... rolleyes.gif

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post #11454 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:51 PM
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Nope, I'm saying the beta testers have added this check to our workflow as it wasn't (maybe still isn't) published. It wasn't until fairly recently even big name studios just hooked up a Hubble and let 'er go. Accuracy is improving every year - now if they could just come up with a published Gamma standard for everyone to work with.... rolleyes.gif

Buzz, you're over your head. Stop digging. smile.gif

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post #11455 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Nope, I'm saying the beta testers have added this check to our workflow as it wasn't (maybe still isn't) published. It wasn't until fairly recently even big name studios just hooked up a Hubble and let 'er go. Accuracy is improving every year - now if they could just come up with a published Gamma standard for everyone to work with.... rolleyes.gif

Buzz, you're over your head. Stop digging. smile.gif

Larry

Just trying to learn what works best on my individual display, Larry.

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post #11456 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 04:58 PM
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Just trying to learn what works best on my individual display, Larry.

We all do that, Buzz. Just don't pretend to have engineering/science degrees. smile.gif

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post #11458 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Just trying to learn what works best on my individual display, Larry.

We all do that, Buzz. Just don't pretend to have engineering/science degrees. smile.gif

Larry

Trust me, I won't. Flying 767's over oceans at night is a hell of a lot more fun. biggrin.gif

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post #11459 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

I indeed found that using Color @ 47 produced the best results on my 55VT60, since I'm using it as a Luminance controller initially before messing with the CMS. My latest calibration using the 10% GCD window patterns and 75%/75% is so far looking good. Using my Colormunki spectro with the latest HCFR fork I achieved the following:

avg gs dE 0.45
avg colors dE 0.62
avg colorchecker dE 0.82 (2.5 highest with blue flower)
avg gamma 2.22

BT.1886ish gamma achieved using 2.4 gamma and only making very tiny changes from 30-90 (max of 3 notches)




That's a very nice 75/75 gamut with great colorchecker points. Probably as good as a 70000^3 point cube could get you. biggrin.gif

Larry
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post #11460 of 14804 Old 01-23-2014, 05:17 PM
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A completely black scene actually is NOT completely black in my case, and I think other people also mention this as well... Also, why would you have a completely black scene for a long time? (maybe when you do calibration, but then you will definitely don't want that red light there). Worse, you press the menu button or info or volume and it should bring up something so you would know if your TV is broken or not.

It was meant as nothing then a really bad joke. I guess I should have put a tongue.gif after or similar.
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